Meditation overload - Anyone just can't meditate anymore?

[Jeff]

I am interested in researching the problem that some traditions experience where one reaches the point where they can't meditate for extended periods anymore. The overload can be manifest as irritability, bad dreams or for those who sense energy, it can manifest in spasms or other uncomfortable pain and issues.

 

Also, looking at the differences between individual and group meditation effects around the issues.

 

If you currently experience this problem and would be willing to discuss it and your practice background, please post here or send me a pm.

 

Thanks,

Jeff

 

p.s. The issue I am describing is a meditation or self inquiry build up problem, not a classic kundalini type problem.

[Yascra]

Oh, I don't have an overload in the strict sense, but I really need kind of outer pressure to do intense stuff at the moment, for usually if I ho into it, it starts to hurt extremely due to purification processes going on. The point is, purification is also taking place without meditation. And I really don't have anyone around locally whom I'd trust sufficiently to practice together and help me with that. People are just not qualified for s.thing like that.

 

So, are you talking about Zen sickness or s.thing related to this?

Edited May 27, 2014 by Yascra

[Jeff]

Hi Yascra,

 

Thanks for your feedback. Also, I am not familiar with "zen sickness". Is there some description or site that you could forward me to?

 

 

Regards,

Jeff

Edited May 27, 2014 by Jeff

[GrandmasterP]

These may be of interest Jeff...

http://alohadharma.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/the-refugees-of-mindfulness-rethinking-psychologys-experiment-with-meditation/

 

And

 

Lim, Russell F., and Lin Keh-Ming. (1996) Cultural formulation of psychiatric diagnosis: Case No. 03: Psychosis following qi-gong in a Chinese immigrant. Culture, Medicine, and Psychiatry 20:369-378.

Edited May 27, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Jeff]

These may be of interest Jeff...http://alohadharma.wordpress.com/2013/07/23/the-refugees-of-mindfulness-rethinking-psychologys-experiment-with-meditation/

And

Lim, Russell F., and Lin Keh-Ming. (1996) Cultural formulation of psychiatric diagnosis: Case No. 03: Psychosis following qi-gong in a Chinese immigrant. Culture, Medicine, and Psychiatry 20:369-378.

 

Thanks for sharing the link.

[Yascra]

http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_zen_sickness_of_zen_master_han_shan.htm

 

[GrandmasterP]

http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_zen_sickness_of_zen_master_han_shan.htm]http://www.meditationexpert.com/yoga-kung-fu/y_zen_sickness_of_zen_master_han_shan.htm[/url]

 

"strive to realize that all earthly appearances are indistinct from reality...."

All due respect to Mr Bodri but 'striving' is seldom recommended for anyone seeking to recover from any kind of illness.

 

The old 'faith healer' get out clause has always been...

" You weren't healed cos you lacked faith. Exercise MORE faith, then it'll work!"

A responsible teacher might recommend simply stopping.

There are plenty of cultivations out there and one way does not suit everyone.

Edited May 28, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Yascra]

"strive to realize that all earthly appearances are indistinct from reality...." All due respect to Mr Bodri but 'striving' is seldom recommended for anyone seeking to recover from any kind of illness.

 

Well, congratulation then to a high being like you for being able to reach things without putting in effort, time, discipline and perseverance ^^

For a lower being like me it doesn't work like that, so I'm quite thankful for such remarks.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Yascra

[GrandmasterP]

In some cases, not all; it isn't necessarily in the student's own interest to persevere with a cultivation that is causing them issues.

Serious issues such as insomnia, anxiety, irritability, ennui and suchlike symptoms of potentially compromised mental health - be those extant , stemming from; or exacerbated by a taught cultivation.

Not laziness. Laziness can, and always should; be worked through.

A responsible, qualified teacher will recognise the student's individual need and advise accordingly.

For some, maybe ' grin and bear it' works and autodidacts, of necessity; never get to see a qualified teacher.

I've never yet come across a student for whom such 'just keep on doing it' means would be the best course. If something has caused or exacerbated an issue or condition then doing more of that something isn't going to resolve the issue.

That isn't to say that there may not be students out there who might benefit from needless suffering.

The ' Hero's journey' is an enduring story in every culture.

Maybe it isn't always fiction.

From a purely legal standpoint, if a student has complained to a teacher that there is an issue, and that teacher ignores or belittles the report and 'prescribes' more of the same....

It will not be very long before that teacher is in receipt of a solicitor's letter from the 'injured party's' 'where there's - blame there's a claim' retained lawyers.

Mr Bodri's books carry the same 'disclaimer' foreword that all such works have to do.

Real teachers ( in the sense of being really there physically to teach) are similarly constrained by insurance proscriptions, professional ethics and, one hopes; common sense.

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Jetsun]

Life is always trying to heal you, in a lot of cases it is about getting yourself out of the way and allowing it to happen.

 

If you get stuck in meditation they say in Zen that is the critical point and most useful point, when there is nothing you can do and nothing you can make happen then real letting go can occur, previous to that you are always trying to manipulate reality in some subtle way into the way you think it should be rather than just allowing it to be the way it is.

[idquest]

I understand this is what Frantzis calls his 70% rule: if somebody overdoes, it will fight back. I've heard stories from his senior students (>15 years of experience) when they would put in effort to meditation or qigong too much and then would not be able to meditate/do qigong for several years after that. This is CNS overload. Nothing to do with kundalini.

 

Usually people mind 70% rule but think it applies to physical exercises. It is broader.

 

I am interested in researching the problem that some traditions experience where one reaches the point where they can't meditate for extended periods anymore. The overload can be manifest as irritability, bad dreams or for those who sense energy, it can manifest in spasms or other uncomfortable pain and issues.

Thanks,
Jeff

p.s. The issue I am describing is a meditation or self inquiry build up problem, not a classic kundalini type problem.

[ChiForce]

You have to be specific in what ways one can't meditate long enough? The mental aspect or the physical? For me, 1 hour is my upper limit. After that, my mind goes into a stupor and to begin to dose off. I would begin to lose my concentration. Once in a while my legs would be overwhelmed with numbness and I have to stop. I meditate in a half lotus position.

 

I meditate in order to induce a Samadhi. I am usually very successful at that in the morning. At night, not so much. If nothing happens in 1 hour, I would call it a night. Then, I also do sleep meditation and here is thing getting strange. I would experience samadhi in my sleep and the nimitta light would transform into various dream images. I would usually end up waking up around 3am to 4am in need to go to the bathroom or waking up feeling very, very warm with an overwhelming chakras vibrational sounds ringing internally.

[Jeff]

Hi ChiForce,

 

Thanks for your feedback. While I do not personally experience the issue, those who do, find even a few minutes of meditation challenging.

 

Best,

Jeff

[Spotless]

In our practice we are constantly uncovering energy patterns that begin to be "noticed" by the practice.

 

The standard metaphor is the onion - the rock - the log - (I prefer picture)

 

As our practice has cleaned so to speak the energy surrounding this onion, the layers of the onion begin to be washed away by the higher vibration that is doing the cleaning.

 

At certain points, we come to the very thin layers of the onion skin and an awareness of what lies underneath starts to vibrate.

What lies underneath begins to vibrate.

 

In this circumstance the picture may pop and the onion is gone - the block is no longer.

 

Usually we feel as sense of renewed vitality or opened horizons, possibly new abilities.

It may also be that in the following period of growth we shift to a radical need for assimilation - perhaps to do nothing for some time.

-----

 

On the flip side of this

 

We may bring the vibration of our bodies into such a state of growth that we have a critical number of these pictures / blocks lit up and vibrating that we intuitively know it is time to allow for some assimilation before proceeding on our current forms. Continuing to proceed might lead to serious mental or physical problems.

 

Often movement exercise with very little meditation can be very helpful and sometimes a great deal of reading and possibly writing.

It can also be a time to examine lifestyle issues, diet and so forth. It is not a bad time to hug a tree or talk to a mountain.

---

 

On a more mundane level, if you are practicing trance and certain forms of mediumship related exercises, then the types of entities you may be attracting can become a real threat to the ownership of your body. This is inviting a whole different can of worms and whether approaching it at all or at least with caution is something to ponder. (I did more than approach it and it worked out fine, but nothing I have seen leads to an abyss more frequently than this, and for me it was of little value) Most teachers teaching this stuff do not have a real clue what they are involved with - it's far more a case of the nuts running the nuthouse) It is an easy path for getting very big results that can divert you for many lifetimes (and that is an understatement).

 

Shamanism is steeped in this and often of a lower grade teaching - but Wow - just saying this is practically heretical.

Obviously - the number of exceptions to that statement are great.

If frequent drug use is involved - it is almost always of a lower grade (I would say always) - and mostly fantasy.

Edited May 30, 2014 by Spotless

[ChiDragon]

hmmm.....
meditation overload....??? Does that mean something non-physically overflow....???

[Tibetan_Ice]

Meditation overload is what happens when you mix customized kundalini yoga practices with TM ala AYP.

[gatito]

Meditation overload is what happens when you mix customized kundalini yoga practices with TM ala AYP.

 

TM seems able do that by itself - however, adding pranayama will probably turbocharge the damaging effects.

 

Pity that Advanced Yoga Practices and yogani deliberately chose to mislead everyone about the fact that he simply ripped-off TM for "Deep Meditation" but thankfully it's out in the open now despite his ongoing obfuscations.

[Lataif]

This thread seems to have a very specific and narrow understanding of "meditation".

 

There are meditation traditions in which one is meditating constantly in all waking hours, whatever one is doing. There's never an overload . . .

Edited May 30, 2014 by Lataif

[gatito]

-

Edited May 30, 2014 by gatito

[ChiForce]

This thread seems to have a very specific and narrow understanding of "meditation".

 

There are meditation traditions in which one is meditating constantly in all waking hours, whatever one is doing. There's never an overload . . .

I think the proper way to describe is chi kung psychosis or energy blockage because one particular energy channels is too overactive. That's not really the result of meditating too much or too long. Is much to do not understanding the nature of the energy work or the mind is not prepared for the energy load.

Edited May 31, 2014 by ChiForce

[Gerard]

I am interested in researching the problem that some traditions experience where one reaches the point where they can't meditate for extended periods anymore.

 

Fortunately the Taoist and Thai Forest Buddhist traditions don't suffer from that problem because it has elements that stop from having it in the first place:

 

1. Walking meditation

2. Internal Martial Arts

3. Climbing mountains/wandering

 

How much grounding work are you doing?

[Ya Mu]

...

Often movement exercise with very little meditation can be very helpful ...

 

 

Agreed. I have found movement will help balance most of what is being described here. I advocate a balance of movement and internal sitting/standing.

[Jeff]

Meditation overload is what happens when you mix customized kundalini yoga practices with TM ala AYP.

 

I would agree that it is an issue for some AYP practitioners.

[Jeff]

Fortunately the Taoist and Thai Forest Buddhist traditions don't suffer from that problem because it has elements that stop from having it in the first place:

 

1. Walking meditation

2. Internal Martial Arts

3. Climbing mountains/wandering

 

How much grounding work are you doing?

 

Hi Gerard,

 

As I have mentioned earlier in this thread, I do not experience the issue. But, I was looking to see if other members did in an attempt to better understand why they experienced the issue. As, Gatito and TI have pointed out, it may be an issue just associated with certain paths/traditions.

 

To all - I think there have been some excellent suggestions on how to address the issue.

 

Thanks,

Jeff

[joeblast]

reminds me of a passage in taoist yoga that says if you dont cultivate focusing the spirit at the seat of awareness then you run into problems down the line especially wrt the mco. in my best periods of cultivation, most all stillness became just that, and session duration correspondingly became rather distorted as to how much time it actually took, it was just sitting peacefully for a bit.