Mastering the emotions

[Kajenx]

Hey guys,

 

I started writing this as a response to the "living in the present" thread, and I realized it'd probably be better to put it in a new thread. It's essentially a summary of what I've learned in the last few months. I hope you guys find it interesting/useful. Feel free to disagree as well!

 

***

 

The mind has two ways of perceiving. One is with awareness facing outward, and the other is with awareness facing inward. The inner world is made of thoughts and emotions, and the outer world is made of the senses. Most of the time these two are intermingled, usually with the inner world being dominant. This dominance is often total when doing mundane tasks as the brain automatically performs movements - like driving familiar roads or washing the dishes. The inner world can be both positive and negative, being the domain of emotions. Reading is (usually) a positive way of completely activating the inner world, and getting lost in an anxiety attack is a negative way.

 

If a person wants to have complete control of their emotional life, they must switch brain dominance to the "outer world" of the senses. This outer world is, by definition, completely without emotions or self-referential thoughts – but don’t be fooled by this description, the lack of emotional feelings is, itself, a feeling of space and relief. The emotions we experience are nothing more than perceived physical contraction in specific areas of the body – like the heart, the throat, the head, and the stomach. When all emotions are removed by completely inhabiting the senses, these areas are, essentially, ignored, which eliminates all inner tension in the body. Both positive and negative emotions are contractions, so the feeling of relief from these contractions can only be described as “perfect.” Perfection meaning whatever is perceived is “beyond judgment” because those judgments simply aren’t capable of arising in the mind. Experientially, this is the same “feeling” that one gets when, after a sudden anxiety, there is relief. For example, if you were to realize that you had a large homework assignment or work project due tomorrow that you hadn’t started on, you might get a sudden attack of anxiety. After this, you check your calendar and realize it’s actually due the next week. The feeling of relief that happens here is the sudden release of the contracted heart center. This feeling of space is predominant when living completely in the senses.

 

Emotionlessness has been an important cue, in my experience. I know I'm no longer "in the present" if I feel a certain way about what I'm seeing. Therefore, a good way to live in the present is to watch yourself for both positive and negative judgments and emotions. You'll realize quickly that those judgments and opinions create a veil over the world of the senses. The best way to remove this veil is to simply accept the feeling exactly as it is, then move your attention back to the senses. There is no need to try to change or remove those judgments and opinions, because they just don't exist in the outer world. All that's left is a spacious freedom. I think this is why the "now" is often so important for contemplative traditions, it's the easiest way to completely switch off emotional processing and see the world through pure consciousness without judgments.

 

Becoming completely embedded in the senses can be a long or short process depending on the amount of dedication you have to it, and it is necessary to remove beliefs that hinder acceptance of emotions as they are. For example, if you believe that it’s necessary for you to be angry at someone for insulting your intelligence or cutting you off in traffic, then you will not be able to accept and move out of any feelings that arise in these situations. This necessitates a “vow” of sorts that you won’t settle for moving out of the senses for any reason, and you’re willing to give up control over the minds and opinions of other people. This “ego” is a set of defense mechanisms meant to ensure social position in a hierarchical non-verbal society. If we were apes who couldn’t talk, it would be important to show displays of anger or resentment to get our point across or to ensure that we have enough food for survival. This isn’t a necessary part of the mind these days, though, and removing it is nothing but a relief. Most of it has been programmed into us by watching the people we perceive to be in a better position in the social hierarchy – adults when we’re younger, and the rich/famous/strong/attractive when we’re older.

 

However, because we generally spend most of our lives absorbed into the ego, it’s often difficult to give it all up at once. This makes the process move sporadically. As you become more attached to the non-emotional world of the senses, the ego begins to seem parasitic as it draws you out of freedom to deal with things that no longer seem important. Luckily, as long as there is nothing hindering your acceptance of the cause of whatever emotional state you’re in (good, bad, or neutral), you can begin to simply appreciate the senses and move out of that emotional world completely. The only time it’s worth looking closely at the ego is when it’s holding you hostage.

 

Finally, it takes a great deal of persistence in the beginning, and some kind of concentration practice is probably necessary. A solid foundation in meditative absorption will make things much easier, though I can’t say for certain if it’s required. It has been my biggest teacher, so I feel like I should mention it.

[zanshin]

I don't like it. You did say feel free to disagree, so I hope you don't get mad since your goal is not to get mad anyway

 

First, would not want to give up all those lovely positive emotions.

I do agree many people are self absorbed in daydreaming and their inner world and this can be negative. Then again perhaps there is a reason for the stereotype of musicians and artists being emotionally volatile, really creative people seem to be pretty hooked into the limbic system. Also, sometimes I think we intuitively and emotionally understand some things that are processed on a deeper level than the rational neocortex. What if you were choosing a babysitter for your child. If there was a candidate with great experience and references who objectively answered your questions well, yet made you feel anxious and tightness in your chest around them vs. another candidate with less experience who maybe was a little less articulate, but you feel relaxed and comfortable in their presence. Who do you think you should choose? Probably better to stay relaxed if someone incidentally cuts you off in traffic, but if it's something like people always driving too fast on your road for safety or a dangerous intersection, then maybe getting mad can be a catalyst for positive change.

[Stosh]

^{I may be on the other side of the fence to Zanshin on this one,}

^{I think the paradigm does have potential to explain what is being meant by various sources.}

^{Its an idea to spend time with and get to know,}

^{(keep in mind im not in the 'squash the ego' crowd , and I dont know how far this paradigm extends in that direction )}

^{If the goal is,, as mentioned,, to,}

^{-not to be held hostage to the vagaries of pavlovian emotional counterpunches- ,}

^{nor , to maintain the self destructive and self defeating effects of traditional socialization ,}

^{nor to remain in the grip of illusions which are best reexamined ...}

^{and instead is geared towards a calm clear perspective about ones values , relationships , life roles etc,,}

^{then ,,, Id say its a fine way to look at things.}

^{Some emotions people enjoy , like pride , sometimes anger , righteousness etc,, have a downside in the way they figure into folks lives.}

^{Having control and wisdom about what one is going to magnify , play -up , enhance ,, vs what one is going to minimize , correct , avoid ,,,}

^{is empowerment . This is the best most appropriate use of 'will' that there can be.}

^{I like the idea that Zanshin or yourself can enjoy the good things life offers as full as they can be enjoyed.. and yet at the same time , that yall can minimize the inevitable 'rainclouds which unto each life doth fall'.}

^{Maybe y'all can, or both do , embrace this cherrypicking perspective , but I just wanted to lay it out in a different way.}

Edited May 29, 2014 by Stosh

[Kajenx]

I don't like it. You did say feel free to disagree, so I hope you don't get mad since your goal is not to get mad anyway

 

First, would not want to give up all those lovely positive emotions.

 

Haha, I'm not mad. I've talked about this with a number of people and this is the general response I've gotten, actually, so I can only assume I'm explaining myself poorly. I'll try to address the concerns you lay out here, but please feel free to point out any new ones that arise.

 

In terms of the lovely positive emotions, perhaps the problem with my explanation is that it implies a neutral emotional tone as the end result, so it seems like a person has to sacrifice their happiness for emotional stability. But what I'm trying to point to is the complete lack of emotional overlay, not just a neutral feeling since that is still an emotional tone. For example, if an person who was dwelling in the inner world were to look at a plain gray rock through emotional eyes, they wouldn't actually see it, all they would see was their neutral feeling. A neutral feeling tone urges the mind "do something" and this results in boredom or restlessness. They might say, "why am I staring at this rock? It has no meaning or purpose in my life." This is a filtering process where the mind tries to avoid as much of the outer world as possible. It seeks constant gratification because it is desperately trying to survive. Once this gratification is met, the inner world becomes positive briefly, registering the contractions in the heart center as happiness. I can't tell you what the brain is actually doing here, I can only point to subjective experiences.

 

When you move out of this world of emotions completely, the feeling itself transcends happiness, because it's a constant, it has no cause, and needs nothing to sustain it. It could be called the ongoing experience of perfect serenity without cause or disturbance. I saw this mind explained as "empty, spacious, and filled with a kind of sweetness" by a higher level practitioner who claims to have stabilized it. That description matches my experiences with it. In a word, it's effortlessness.

 

The truth is (IMHO) even great joy is a kind of stress. Consider emotional phrases like "a heart bursting with love" and "overcome by joy". These emotions are a kind of contraction and exist in the same "system" as the negative emotions. They can be amazing, but imagine living in a constant state of transcendent joy? Something I've learned from practicing the jhanas is that even full bodied bliss becomes a kind of work or effort. When the mind is living in the emotional inner world, it's always looking for something to gratify it further. It's a mind ruled by systematizing, judging, and ranking experience, so only new things will ever make it happy. The complete stilling of the emotions finally brings this to rest. In the outer world of the senses, there is only contentment, nothing else. This contentment informs everything, so any ideas of morality become meaningless. The mind that is consumed by its own satisfaction automatically treats everyone with kindness.

 

 

I do agree many people are self absorbed in daydreaming and their inner world and this can be negative. Then again perhaps there is a reason for the stereotype of musicians and artists being emotionally volatile, really creative people seem to be pretty hooked into the limbic system.

 

I think I can answer this from personal experience. I enjoy writing music and painting, and I've found that emotional thinking generally gets in the way of these kinds of things. The best music I've made is when I got out of the way completely and stopped judging what I was doing as I made it. The tug and pull of emotional thinking has ruined a number of my paintings as well, haha. I spend so much time "fixing" things that the final result has lost all of its original character.

 

 

Also, sometimes I think we intuitively and emotionally understand some things that are processed on a deeper level than the rational neocortex. What if you were choosing a babysitter for your child. If there was a candidate with great experience and references who objectively answered your questions well, yet made you feel anxious and tightness in your chest around them vs. another candidate with less experience who maybe was a little less articulate, but you feel relaxed and comfortable in their presence. Who do you think you should choose? Probably better to stay relaxed if someone incidentally cuts you off in traffic, but if it's something like people always driving too fast on your road for safety or a dangerous intersection, then maybe getting mad can be a catalyst for positive change.

 

While I admit that I've never been a very intuitive person (so I probably can't answer this from personal experience) I think you may be pointing to something I've given some thought to. It's important to remember that emotions aren't the cause of our intuitions, they are just the delivery method. If you aren't driven by emotional thinking, these intuitions will still arise, they will probably just appear more clearly in your thought stream. Something to consider is that, when dwelling in the senses, you will pick up on details directly rather than relying on your subconscious to do it for you.

[Aetherous]

For people who want to know how it will affect their emotions, they should try the exercise! Look at something and if/when the mind whooshes you off into fantasy land, take note and then go back to looking at the thing only. Do this for like 10 minutes...then see how you feel, and how you react to life's ups and downs during the day afterward.

At least personally, I notice more room for positive emotions to express themselves...as well as more of an ability to let things slide, whereas otherwise I would've gotten bent out of shape.

It's a great method, to meditate on things with the awareness going outward. Bravo for kind of discovering it for yourself, Kajenx.

[Kajenx]

^{(keep in mind im not in the 'squash the ego' crowd , and I dont know how far this paradigm extends in that direction )}

 

I don't think I'm in that crowd either, though I may be wrong. From what I've seen, the ego just doesn't seem to exist when you're in the senses. I've had a number of days where this "outer world" really stabilized and things that would have really bothered me in the past didn't even register. It's like dissatisfaction is turned off completely.

 

So these days I only spend time working on the ego if it's getting in the way of stepping out of the emotions. Once I'm out, there is no ego to worry about or keep in check.

 

 

 

^{I may be on the other side of the fence to Zanshin on this one,}

^{I think the paradigm does have potential to explain what is being meant by various sources.}

^{Its an idea to spend time with and get to know,}

 

Please feel free to link some things you think might relate to this! I've been trying to understand if what I've been doing lines up with anything. Is it rigpa/non-dual awareness? The tao? Kensho? Something new?

 

 

^{If the goal is,, as mentioned,, to,}

^{-not to be held hostage to the vagaries of pavlovian emotional counterpunches- ,}

^{nor , to maintain the self destructive and self defeating effects of traditional socialization ,}

^{nor to remain in the grip of illusions which are best reexamined ...}

^{and instead is geared towards a calm clear perspective about ones values , relationships , life roles etc,,}

^{then ,,, Id say its a fine way to look at things.}

 

I think this matches the goal. Most of these things seem to be automatically taken care of, though. To me, this points to something fundamental in the mind. It's a very clear shift between the struggle of everyday emotional life, and then a sudden ongoing clarity. Even things that seemed to have had an emotional death grip on the mind are suddenly seen as very minor or unimportant.

 

^{Some emotions people enjoy , like pride , sometimes anger , righteousness etc,, have a downside in the way they figure into folks lives.}

^{Having control and wisdom about what one is going to magnify , play -up , enhance ,, vs what one is going to minimize , correct , avoid ,,,}

^{is empowerment . This is the best most appropriate use of 'will' that there can be.}

^{I like the idea that Zanshin or yourself can enjoy the good things life offers as full as they can be enjoyed.. and yet at the same time , that yall can minimize the inevitable 'rainclouds which unto each life doth fall'.}

^{Maybe y'all can, or both do , embrace this cherrypicking perspective , but I just wanted to lay it out in a different way.}

 

It's hard to see this as enhancing good and minimizing bad, as least from my perspective, because it doesn't really involve any kind of willpower or decision making. If the mind is dwelling in the emotions, then it has to sort through them and suppress some and allow itself to express others, and it worries about the social and emotional impact of what it does because it might lose it's happiness or it might run into obstacles to pursue more happiness. Then, when it steps out of this world entirely, none of this even registers. The mind is simply content, and it has no inhibitions because it isn't relying on anything to support its contentment. In this mind-frame, you can smile at an angry person piling you with insults because they don't even register. It's the same as if you were having a light discussion about the weather.

 

EDIT: I realized I repeated myself a lot here, haha. Sorry aobut that.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Kajenx

[Silent Answers]

Some people can't help but cling on and not take the plunge when it comes to really living without emotion and desire.

 

The driving one is a good example that I personally used. I live in China where people leave their brains out of the car, so it's a great daily training to keep on top of your emotions haha. I don't think they ever truly go away, but they become an insignificant whisper to the point that you can chose not to hear them.

[Kajenx]

Some people can't help but cling on and not take the plunge when it comes to really living without emotion and desire.

 

Haha, well TBH, I don't know that I would have agreed with myself about it unless I'd seen it for myself. If you guys just want my subjective opinion, there is nothing I've felt in my life that comes close to being in this mind-frame.

 

The driving one is a good example that I personally used. I live in China where people leave their brains out of the car, so it's a great daily training to keep on top of your emotions haha. I don't think they ever truly go away, but they become an insignificant whisper to the point that you can chose not to hear them.

 

I can't say I live permanently without emotions, but I can say that they do go away totally and completely when this mind frame is stabilized. There's not even a whisper. Sometimes I'll just sit for hours doing nothing but enjoying existence. It seems like it's becoming much easier to get there, as well, so I'm extrapolating that it's possible to make it "perminant" (i.e. the natural resting state of the mind).

[Stosh]

I don't think I'm in that crowd either, though I may be wrong. From what I've seen, the ego just doesn't seem to exist when you're in the senses. I've had a number of days where this "outer world" really stabilized and things that would have really bothered me in the past didn't even register. It's like dissatisfaction is turned off completely.

 

So these days I only spend time working on the ego if it's getting in the way of stepping out of the emotions. Once I'm out, there is no ego to worry about or keep in check.

 

 

 

Please feel free to link some things you think might relate to this! I've been trying to understand if what I've been doing lines up with anything. Is it rigpa/non-dual awareness? The tao? Kensho? Something new?

 

 

 

I think this matches the goal. Most of these things seem to be automatically taken care of, though. To me, this points to something fundamental in the mind. It's a very clear shift between the struggle of everyday emotional life, and then a sudden ongoing clarity. Even things that seemed to have had an emotional death grip on the mind are suddenly seen as very minor or unimportant.

 

 

It's hard to see this as enhancing good and minimizing bad, as least from my perspective, because it doesn't really involve any kind of willpower or decision making. If the mind is dwelling in the emotions, then it has to sort through them and suppress some and allow itself to express others, and it worries about the social and emotional impact of what it does because it might lose it's happiness or it might run into obstacles to pursue more happiness. Then, when it steps out of this world entirely, none of this even registers. The mind is simply content, and it has no inhibitions because it isn't relying on anything to support its contentment. In this mind-frame, you can smile at an angry person piling you with insults because they don't even register. It's the same as if you were having a light discussion about the weather.

 

EDIT: I realized I repeated myself a lot here, haha. Sorry aobut that.

Youre quite right about this not involving 'willpower' , as I understand what youre getting at , one certainly is bypassing certain mental gyrations. I came across my own version of this idea when I was trying to get a handle on just what exactly " willpower" was, and whether one was in some state of dearth- lack-inequipment- ineptitude ,that perhaps some other people had.

So in short , yes , If I get you correctly ,, I agree, this the door to fixing quite a lot of what ails.

Repeatedly one sees practitioners of some discipline or other , who are educated on the subject , having clear goals and aspirations , and yet ,, are making no lasting progress towards them. They backslide and lose sight of that which they actually HAD correct! Why would that be ? one might ask. And I feel , without explaining my take on it , that this is because they are setting themselves against themselves , instead of taking the route of clarity that you are circumscribing.

As for the texts which discuss this ? Ha Ha Ha , Theyre all over the place here Sir! You probably know a huge deal of it already Just to get TO the ideas you are working now, means you have a strong background in the subject!

Please just reread the classics , in a new light you can shine on them now.

You and I may not meet precise in our definitions , words are but vague fingers pointing at moons, but in the general thrust of your discoveries , Id say you are well directed,, but thats just my opinion , ( and as everyone says, "opinions are like XXX-XXXXX, everyone has one ....as I see it You are teaching yourself a path to peace and clarity , who could be more convincing to you than that, and to the extent that this works , " who is it that should undermine it, discredit it , redirect you , correct you towards following the plan they execute for themselves?" )

Anything someone else has to attest to , you might shed suspicion on ,, one may also shed suspicion on themselves ,, in a world of uncertainty and change,, one will flounder if they cant at least say , This works for me! this is mine!

Edited May 30, 2014 by Stosh

[Rocky Lionmouth]

I find this incredibly interesting, up to here i must confess i skimmed a bit so i'll read again later and try to get on top of the details, yummy thread!

 

Imo emotionlessness is an extreme and emotions are also part of the information that makes a difference in life. Sensing something wrong with a friend, having a good or bad feeling about a meeting, it tell me something of how im seeing myself and the thing i feel about, their relationship to each other. Its information about ourselves, the inner world. Seeing the emotions often gives me a chance to see biases and conditionings im not yet aware of and tke them into consideration.

 

I do agree that it's common and easy to get entangled and trapped in the idea that one is ones emotions and thoughts, that this is ones firm and solid core identity, i'd describe it as living at the whim of mercurial rollercoaster of chemical surges related to all sorts of half-assedly organized stimuli. This is another extreme. Choosing to follow the pavlovian response bundle and calling it ME, thats selling oneself short i think. Acknowleding it as a part of the whole is a whole other pair of pants.

 

From a perspective of cultivation, the five phases and tcm, emotions and virtues connect to the organs and the phases, an excess of certain emotions indicates that a specific organ is either acting up or might take damage from the emotional situation. Its part of self diagnostics and the process of maintaining health and energy.

 

I get that we're not talking about bottling up and crushing the emotions but rather choosing to focus on something else. I think this might be a good metogd for training oneself to have distance, keepig the outer and inner separate. I feel scared about trying it as a more constant approach to life, but i've had the tendency to bottle up and disregard emotions and their information on a broad range as a coping mechanism and for me its been very destructive.

 

I might be boring the excrements out of you guys or missing the point now but i think mastery in itself cannot be a state of full control, controlling is grasping, holding and clinging, an approach of force wich i guess means its going to cost you a lot of energy.

Mastery imo is regulating, balancing and being aware of the changing situation. I know, im dangerously close to semantics arguments here but my distinction aims towards the comparison between rigidity and fluidity.

 

Having said this, i must read all of the thread again twice and i'll probably be of a different mind althogether then

Edited May 30, 2014 by Rocky Lionmouth

[silent thunder]

My current tactic is to allow emotions, both good and bad, to ride through me, rather than for me to claim them as my own and somehow try to manage them and to add to the story about the emotion.

 

I picture it like my consciousness is a series of water-slides and the emotions are water flowing through, I don't own them, they are not me, yet I experience turbulence or rejuvenation depending on which emotion is flowing through me in the moment.

 

Like clouds, they dissipate, no matter what their source or how crackling their intensity.

[Stosh]

I find this incredibly interesting, up to here i must confess i skimmed a bit so i'll read again later and try to get on top of the details, yummy thread!

 

Imo emotionlessness is an extreme and emotions are also part of the information that makes a difference in life. Sensing something wrong with a friend, having a good or bad feeling about a meeting, it tell me something of how im seeing myself and the thing i feel about, their relationship to each other. Its information about ourselves, the inner world. Seeing the emotions often gives me a chance to see biases and conditionings im not yet aware of and tke them into consideration.

 

I do agree that it's common and easy to get entangled and trapped in the idea that one is ones emotions and thoughts, that this is ones firm and solid core identity, i'd describe it as living at the whim of mercurial rollercoaster of chemical surges related to all sorts of half-assedly organized stimuli. This is another extreme. Choosing to follow the pavlovian response bundle and calling it ME, thats selling oneself short i think. Acknowleding it as a part of the whole is a whole other pair of pants.

 

From a perspective of cultivation, the five phases and tcm, emotions and virtues connect to the organs and the phases, an excess of certain emotions indicates that a specific organ is either acting up or might take damage from the emotional situation. Its part of self diagnostics and the process of maintaining health and energy.

 

I get that we're not talking about bottling up and crushing the emotions but rather choosing to focus on something else. I think this might be a good metogd for training oneself to have distance, keepig the outer and inner separate. I feel scared about trying it as a more constant approach to life, but i've had the tendency to bottle up and disregard emotions and their information on a broad range as a coping mechanism and for me its been very destructive.

 

I might be boring the excrements out of you guys or missing the point now but i think mastery in itself cannot be a state of full control, controlling is grasping, holding and clinging, an approach of force wich i guess means its going to cost you a lot of energy.

Mastery imo is regulating, balancing and being aware of the changing situation. I know, im dangerously close to semantics arguments here but my distinction aims towards the comparison between rigidity and fluidity.

 

Having said this, i must read all of the thread again twice and i'll probably be of a different mind althogether then

I dont think its boring , It seems quite on point with Kajenx's OP., the thing he is looking at, give yourself a break man

[manitou]

Thanks for this topic, kajenx.

 

In my personal experience, my growth into the Dao has been increasingly mixed with impartiality and non judgment. I find my emotions much more muted than they previously were; in fact, I was a slave to acting upon my emotions. i've always been a very impetuous person.

 

The intense highs and lows of my youth have gone. Because we are all One, it is possible to be as happy for someone else getting the award and not us. We are One, for him to get the award is for you to get it. Most of the time, I am walking around in a silent joy that radiates; it's seldom that I get out of balance any more, so the sense is almost always with me. When it is not (because i've allowed myself to get entangled in someone else's illusion) I realize it quickly and quickly get back to a place of transcendence.

 

I've found my life sort of dividing into two different motions: On one hand, it is possible to transcend any situation and see it "in the long run", which takes the imminent emotions out of it. And the other motion I've noticed is the tendency (and desire!) to 'become the task', or be One with the task. In this way, time is stopped in our mind and we are worrying about nothing else. I cut a small section of my acreage every day with an old push mower - no engine - and I so look forward to performing that task each day. I consciously put all my effort and muscles into it.

 

It's like it says in the DDJ: there are two ways of seeing things (paraphrased) - you can know it by its essence (by throwing yourself into it), or you can know it from a very far distance (seeing its relationship in the workings of things)

[Nikolai1]

Both positive and negative emotions are contractions, so the feeling of relief from these contractions can only be described as “perfect.”

 

If this were true then I think you would be right to try and focus on the 'outward facing' senses.

 

But the truth is that the 'perfection' that you rightly identify as being beyond judgement, is mediated through the emotions and is experienced as intense bliss. The emotional realm as a whole mustn't therefore be considered as something to switch away from.

 

Not all emotion is contraction. Contracting emotions are those which are associated with thoughts and behaviours that make sense within the egoic worldview: the world of individuals living in time and space. Anything that is interpreted as a threat to our physical or psychological well-being will result in contraction. Physical contraction emphasises and exaggerates our finiteness.

 

Thoughts and behaviours that are associated with our spiritual worldview produce emotions that are expansive and blissful. A person who has a well-developed sense of their spiritual identity will therefore be able to feel expansion and bliss even when their individual well-being is under threat. This is because such a person understands that their individual sense of self is the main barrier to consciousness of the spiritual self. Threat to the ego is bliss to the spirit.

 

The spiritually developed person of all ages, cultures and religions have all testified to the bliss that may be felt in situations where normal people would see pain and suffering.

 

Don't try and switch off your emotions. You will only be temporarily successful anyway. The secret is to be a winner in all situations. Gear your practice towards realisation of your true self, and your emotions will be nothing other than joy to you. And after all, what is all this about except joy?

[johndoe2012]

I am reminded of this when I read your post

 

http://thehamiltonproject.blogspot.com/2012/05/appreciation-abandon-overlay.html

 

it is also mentioned in ChNN's book "The cycle of day and night":

 

 

With respect to the objects of the six sense faculties: when they simply are as ornaments (of the state of presence) in a lucid fashion without any obstruction and without any intellectual analyses, then they are entirely perfect just as they are, as the potency of pure presence without any grasping (after conceptions or judgments). Continuing in this state without any duality is said to be relaxing with presence.

 

 

By the way, I don't think there's anything wrong with positive emotions, like love, bliss and joy. These IMO are the natural occurences of the natural state.

 

I don't experience positive emotions as contractions because they have been integrated meaning they don't have triggers in the unconcious.

 

I am working myself in that direction: releasing negative emotions with energy corrections / inductions and love, bliss and joy follows naturally.

 

Maybe you are right in your situation / mind / body complex; I actually tried that stuff many years ago but I was too contracted to even try living fully in my senses.

[zanshin]

I don't think I'm in that crowd either, though I may be wrong. From what I've seen, the ego just doesn't seem to exist when you're in the senses. I've had a number of days where this "outer world" really stabilized and things that would have really bothered me in the past didn't even register. It's like dissatisfaction is turned off completely.

 

So these days I only spend time working on the ego if it's getting in the way of stepping out of the emotions. Once I'm out, there is no ego to worry about or keep in check.

 

 

 

Please feel free to link some things you think might relate to this! I've been trying to understand if what I've been doing lines up with anything. Is it rigpa/non-dual awareness? The tao? Kensho? Something new?

 

 

 

I think this matches the goal. Most of these things seem to be automatically taken care of, though. To me, this points to something fundamental in the mind. It's a very clear shift between the struggle of everyday emotional life, and then a sudden ongoing clarity. Even things that seemed to have had an emotional death grip on the mind are suddenly seen as very minor or unimportant.

 

 

It's hard to see this as enhancing good and minimizing bad, as least from my perspective, because it doesn't really involve any kind of willpower or decision making. If the mind is dwelling in the emotions, then it has to sort through them and suppress some and allow itself to express others, and it worries about the social and emotional impact of what it does because it might lose it's happiness or it might run into obstacles to pursue more happiness. Then, when it steps out of this world entirely, none of this even registers. The mind is simply content, and it has no inhibitions because it isn't relying on anything to support its contentment. In this mind-frame, you can smile at an angry person piling you with insults because they don't even register. It's the same as if you were having a light discussion about the weather.

But, adult tantrums are so amusing, it's unkind to laugh at angry people though, as it is to get angry back. Being so detached it doesn't even register, also seems unkind. I think the middle ground is to listen to the person and reflect some concern for his or her perception of the problem, usually a little empathy is most helpful in helping the angry person calm down. I think we have a perception that anger is a terrible scary thing- both others and our own. I'd actually rather have family and close friends go ahead and get angry with me than repress it and smile or be detached and not react. If there's some resentment over something I want to understand things right and have the opportunity to address it.

 

The amygdala is the deep brain structure largely involved in modulating responses to fear, pain and anger. Clinically, it's been shown that long term mindfulness meditation practitioners have decreased activation in this area. Right insula has been shown to be thicker and more complex in meditators and this part is believed to be important in regulating emotional states, compassion and feelings of being connected to god or the universe. So neurologically, releasing negative emotions and increased positive feelings and bliss seems reasonable.

[johndoe2012]

This is something I have noticed and remember a discussion of this long time ago, was it Daniel Ingram from dharmaoverground and Kenneth Folk on the topic of Buddhahood: that Buddhahood could only be reached when bodhicitta was real and integrated.

 

This is compared to the arhat which didn't embody this principle: instead he chose equanimity.

 

There's also the danger of being dissociated and "stuck" in your head because the body hasn't been integrated.

 

Maybe something to think about.

[Clarity]

Eventually, after you clear away enough of the dross, the positive emotions are not really followed by a contraction at all. In fact, the center of the chest becomes more like a clear pool.

 

However, in my experience you don't want to rely on positive emotions, just accept them as they come and go. The same is true for negative emotions.

 

So once the 'shell' cracks and much of the reactivity is cleared away, everything in life becomes more even and easier. The trick is clearing away all the influences or blockages that weaken you.

 

For example, in my 20s and 30s I had a lot of anxiety. Heavy tension in the shoulders, tension in the center of the chest (knots), and so on. Oh yeah, I was a nervous wreck. I remember how the center of my chest almost always seemed like big lump of coal, lol. In addition, I was mentally and emotionally reactive.

 

Now things are very different and much more integrated. Many things I once understood 'intellectually' I now put into practice in my daily life.

 

And generally speaking, I've found that my 'conceptual/thinking mind' is almost always wrong about everything. That's not to say I don't have good use of my logic and reason, but now I back it up with an 'inner compass' so to speak.

 

It's not really a question of controlling our emotions, it's just being honest and not suppressing, denying, lying, or reacting. Once we stop lying to ourselves, life gets easier because there's less struggle. The more we suppress, deny, avoid, the more we struggle! Then add our thinking mind misinterpreting just about everything and it's a recipe for confusion!

 

So with less baggage comes more clarity, inner calm, happiness, joy, and fulfillment of one's purpose in life.

[Jetsun]

The only way to be without emotions is through dissociation, which is a form of internalised aggression aimed at controlling life from the position of how you think it should be, in opposition to being in flow or in tune with how life really is, whether you agree with it or not in your mind.

 

Although there are different levels of emotion, there are those which are generated from our personal stories and thought forms which are like projections or phantoms, and then there are genuine deep emotional responses to the reality of the moment.

 

I remember a story about a Zen master, I think is was Suzuki, who received the news in front of his students that his mother had died and he immediately burst into gushing heaving tears like a little boy, not caring the slightest what people think of him. Some of the new students watched in horror thinking they had come to see some realised master who had transcended his human emotions but instead found this blubbering emotional wreck, yet the more advanced students just told them to watch and wait and after an hour or two the master completely recovered and then carried on with his regular duties as if nothing had happened. He had processed and dealt with his grief there and then, while many people who have similar experiences on some level deny they feel those sorts of feelings at all, then realise ten years down the line that they are still sad about their mother dying.

[Brian]

For me, emotions have always been sort of like the background "mood" music accompanying the movie of life, if you follow me.

[Kajenx]

Thanks for all the discussion, you guys. I think it would be too cumbersom to quote and answer everything, so I'd like to adress the trend of the thread instead.

 

I think the most important thing to point out is that I'm not referring to dissociation or repression. A very important part of this process for me has been learning to accept emotions as they are completely without resraint. Doing this has changed my life a great deal in a very short period of time. Just a few months ago, my emotional life was in the emergency room, haha. It's been there for most of my life, actually, with nearly perpetual anxiety. After practicing a kind of radical acceptance, it's finally "normal".

 

What I'm trying to point to here is what I've seen to be the next step after bliss. I've become very familiar with bliss while practicibg the jhanas and I found a very blissful glow that comes with radical acceptance. I no longer have any fear of anxiety, because if I notice I'm experiencing it, I can move into acceptance and it actually turns to bliss. This connection was important in realizing the contracted nature of emotions. Bliss and anxiety are the yin and yang of emotional contraction in the heart center. The same is true for disgust and contentment in the belly. Finding these dualisms is actually kind of fun if you start looking for it!

 

But there has always been this single experience than I've pointed back to as the crowning achievement of the mind (at least in my limited experience of the mind so far) and it has been the experience of complete emotionlessness. It isn't a sacrifice of emotion, it's a kind of transcendence - a state or level of the mind that exists above the emotions. Emotions are the blinders that block the mind from this experience. It's worth trying to experience it at least once just to see if you find it worthwhile. It's not hard to reach, you just need to realize you're looking for something that exists outside of emotional thinking - this pointer has been invaluable to me.

 

I can understand the skepticism, though. I'm not sure I can do it justice with my explanations - but the emotionless quality is precisely what's so good about this mind-frame. I'm not someone who dislikes emotions (except the sressful ones, haha) but what I'm trying to point to here is, perhaps, a different world completely, or a different way of seeing completely. That's why I called the thread "mastering the emotions" - it's the single most stable and "highest" emotional mind I've achieved, which is to say, dwelling beyond the duality of emotional thinking is the best a person can feel in my experience.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Kajenx

[Nikolai1]

I can move into acceptance and it actually turns to bliss. This connection was important in realizing the contracted nature of emotions. Bliss and anxiety are the yin and yang of emotional contraction in the heart center. The same is true for disgust and contentment in the belly. Finding these dualisms is actually kind of fun if you start looking for it!

 

I couldn't agree more with this - and I've experienced the same thing. And surprisingly, the same goes for pain, which when you really accept it and go into it, becomes a particular rich and textured form of pleasure.

 

I guess what I questioned was when you called this 'yin and yang of the heart centre' - this overall view - as being contraction, the term we associate with the negative pole.

 

What you call 'the crowning acheivement of the Mind' is clearly a positive state. Impossible to describe in itself, we can try using the vocabulary of the emotions (even though they have been trasncended). And when we do, we cannot help but use the word bliss, even though it is the 'bliss above bliss'.

 

I think this is why Capital letters at the front of words like Bliss get used so often. We need to indicate when we are talking about the transcendent.

 

Anyway, I for one think you've done a good job with this thread and been as clear as you can be.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Nikolai1

[Marblehead]

I suppose it is time for me to say something in this thread so here goes:

 

I love my emotions. I have no intention of ever trying to deny or control them again. I tried it for a very long time and it sucks big time.

 

When I'm happy I feel happy and sometimes sing about my happiness no matter where I am.

 

Expressing our emotions shows that we are still living, not just existing.

[Kajenx]

Marblehead, you may have missed that last post, but I definately don't advocate repression. I also have tried that and found it doesn't work. Acceptance is an important part of what I'm talking about here, so I'd say you're doing a good thing by enjoying your emotions.

 

Nikolai, I have been practicing on the occasional headache and I have to agree - aceptance seems to work on pain as well. Thankfully, I don't have too many opportunities to practice that, though, hehe. ^^

[Marblehead]

Marblehead, you may have missed that last post, but I definately don't advocate repression. I also have tried that and found it doesn't work. Acceptance is an important part of what I'm talking about here, so I'd say you're doing a good thing by enjoying your emotions.

I just didn't read it thoroughly enough. Yes, that state you mentioned that was beyond emotions is what I would call wu wei. Looking like a piece of dead wood. But as soon as we are inspired life returns with all its emotions and feelings. Yes, and even our judgements.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Marblehead