Mastering the emotions

[Stosh]

Reading through all the posts , I thought I read someone say something ,,,

( but when I looked again I couldnt put my finger on the sentence ...

Digressing, sometimes I just dont have a sense of what is being meant by certain words..

so I cant say who exactly it is that I might be agreeing with or disagreeing with ,,

but I did want to underline what they said )

 

One day , I went hiking , the sun was high and hot , the paths were dry dusty crushed limerock, and by noon any shadows had retreated all the way up to the tippy-tops of the trees.

The birds I'd gone out to photograph, had all flown to the elephant graveyard they visit daily between eleven and one o'clock. And I, deciding to hang it up for the day ,, I began the trek back to my vehicle ,

through squinting eyes ,, involuntarily closing to the glare in my face,, slowly I saw it became less far from me .

I was really worn from my efforts and I considered that , no-matter how else I wanted things to be , no relief was being offered, other than to continue onward , forward , ahead, trundling on tired hot sweaty feet.

And not till I had actually completely unequivocably put the key in the ignition , turned it , clicked on the air , and waited for it do begin to chill down ,, would there be.

There was literally NO other option , this struck me starkly , so much so, I had a tiny bit of panic pass over me, man ! if I was bit by a snake now , if I twisted my ankle, if I gave up , Id just sit here baking in the sun until all the water in my bones had been sucked out into the sky!

From the nothingness in my head some new words arose , Its not that far , you can make it , what are you getting all worked up about? Yes, there is no other option here , but this option is here , so everything is fine.

I kept to my pace and continued.

As I got within a few paces, for some reason , I had the impression that since I was so close , that now there were other options ! .... there wasnt . Why would I even think that ? I literally had to go through precisely every last step in the plan ,, and I did , and the air came on , and it cooled me off , and I drove home.

Now when I got home I pulled off my shoes leaned back on the couch , and said , in my head

Ahhhhhh !

,I then questioned me, on how my day had been ,

I returned that had really been a fine morning so far.

Isnt that curious?

Edited June 1, 2014 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

,I then questioned me, on how my day had been ,

I returned that had really been a fine morning so far.

Isnt that curious?

Not curious at all. Our mind will oftentimes offer us some "What if"s and we then have to play with them. Natural, I think. Yes, you had a nice day. I spent my morning trimming vegetation in my gardens. No "What if"s came to my mind. So far its been a good day.

 

But yes, the "What if"s will tickle our emotions. Maybe laughter, maybe anxiety. All hell could break loose. But then, maybe nothing unexpected will happen.

[Stosh]

Not curious at all. Our mind will oftentimes offer us some "What if"s and we then have to play with them. Natural, I think. Yes, you had a nice day. I spent my morning trimming vegetation in my gardens. No "What if"s came to my mind. So far its been a good day.

 

But yes, the "What if"s will tickle our emotions. Maybe laughter, maybe anxiety. All hell could break loose. But then, maybe nothing unexpected will happen.

I miss having a yard to putz with , but there is an upside ( to not ) , its one less thing to putz with . I was reading some Walden this weekend , (I hope the pace picks up though, He really does dwell on his subject , and if one has already agreement with the point he makes , well , I start deciding to put the book down. ) and as he tells , there is something to shriving off that which isnt really neccesary,, for instance , he doesnt accept a mat as a gift for his shack , because he would then have to shake it out occasionally ,, and he just doesnt want to have to put in so much effort. Which is taking things to a degree of laziness even I dont often get to !

Edited June 2, 2014 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Yeah, there are many things I could remove from my life and make it much simpler. But why? So I can get bored from having nothing to do? That just wouldn't be me. I need to have something to do when boredom starts setting in. Therefore I have more going on here than I could ever get done even if I reincarnated three more lifetimes.

 

Boredom is one emotion I don't ever want to experience again.

[Stosh]

At some time or other , I think I have forgotten what boredom was like , If I can shut my eyes , and do literally nothing for long periods of time ,, the idea of what "boredom" is loses some meaning. I still know what tedium is though, which is why I too, have got my hobbies, but me neither , I dont let me get bored. Some folks dont seem to plan for what they are going to be doing with their time in retirement ( Im not there yet) , and even if I wasnt totally disinterested in watching other people play sports or shop for stuff, I figure that I wouldnt want to have to resort to that all day long.

[Marblehead]

I hear ya. Funny though, I keep adding more hobbies in my life. Not that I don't always have work waiting for me to do or anything like that.

 

Anyhow, seems we got off topic again. Hehehe. Nothing new for me. When we flow with the flow who knows what is going to happen or what is going to be said next?

 

Emotions are good. They let us know that we are still alive and if we have just one emotion in our life it indicates that we could also add love to the basket. Okay, so I love me. That's not too bad since some people don't love themself.

[Kajenx]

You guys should consider your wandering thoughts carefully here. The story about realizing there was literally nothing else to do is ALWAYS true. In this moment you have a mind that is characterized by a set of desires that are conditioned by the past - both instinct and social identity. This present was conditioned by a series of events that all have effects, and those effects will be realized in the future. Life is an ocean current with no edges to escape through. The emotions manifest as either resistance to the current moment or acceptance of the current moment. We are bored/unhappy/distressed when the current moment is not matching our desires, and we're happy when it is. Unhappiness, discontent, boredom, etc all take a great deal of energy to maintain, which is why we don't like them. It's like we're trying to swim against that current of life, but we don't have any strength to do it. I think the mind is always searching for rest. The positive emotions are closer to rest because they aren't resisting the flow. There is a step beyond this, though.

 

The mind I'm pointing to is the mind that realizes that even these positive emotions are stressful and drops them. The result is, essentially, the opposite of boredom - pure contentment. As an anecdote, the first few times I found this mind, I spent a number of hours staring at the ceiling in my bedroom, simply enjoying the fact that I was alive in the endless, timeless moment that is existance.

 

Edit: I wonder if we're just not meeting up on symantics. Would you guys say your definition of "bliss" could be described as emotionless when comparing it to a more normal or everyday kind of mind? What I'm calling "emotionlessness" is undeniably positive in my experience, so maybe a better way to describe it would be "stillness" or "serenity".

Edited June 2, 2014 by Kajenx

[Stosh]

Like I said earlier Kj , Im not always sure of what folks mean with the words they use, like if someone said ,umm hey Stosh , hows that bliss thing going ,, I would 'get' the thrust of the question, but not really what the 'bliss' was supposed to mean personally.

Ill easily agree to both contentions you served ,1 that things one chases potentially has tensions downside etc ,just as the things one avoids can. And 2 that aside from that which draws ,and that which repels, there is a pleasant situation remaining, and remaining there is all you might want when you have that sensation. But if thats the bliss other folks call bliss,, ?? I dunno.

Some folks like screaming with a crowd at say ,a soccer match, and they literally go there to do that screaming as part of a crowd..me personally , I really dont care for the crowd , and actively would be repelled by having to scream for my team. And I suppose anyone may have had a great time laughing at some get-together ,, but then when its finally quiet and you can tone down you may note how much less demanding that is.

As I look at the meaning of the things collectively grouped as 'emotions' , I reclassify that they are behavioral subsets of our total behavioral complement and are associated with motivational dictates as well as sensational ones. The oddball in the group is a happiness for which one doesnt want to effect change regarding, youre motivated to keep things just the way they are. Is it a bliss? is it satisfaction , serenity ,plain old joy or what ? but yep , its real nice and it doesnt push you around ,though its always there in some quantity when you look for it.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

You guys should consider your wandering thoughts carefully here.

You are asking for an aweful lot from me.

 

I really don't use the word "bliss". Wasn't until just a couple years ago I first used the word "serenity".

 

In my signature block there are the words "Peace and Contentment". That's as close as I can get to "Bliss".

 

What I saw you talking to in your last post I would call "wu wei". Yes, that is an emotionless state. We have found peace and contentment. Nothing to do so nothing is done.

[Kajenx]

You are asking for an aweful lot from me.

 

With this line, I have realized you are a wiser man than I.

 

I also suddenly realized why I like this site so much, hehe.

 

EDIT:

 

In my signature block there are the words "Peace and Contentment". That's as close as I can get to "Bliss".

 

It's better than Bliss anyway. The order is happiness -> joy -> bliss -> peace and contentment.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Kajenx

[Kajenx]

And 2 that aside from that which draws ,and that which repels, there is a pleasant situation remaining, and remaining there is all you might want when you have that sensation.

 

There it is. Everyone read this line, it's what I meant with all my words words words.

 

Actually, remaining there is all I've wanted to do since I saw it for the first time.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Kajenx

[Marblehead]

With this line, I have realized you are a wiser man than I.

 

I also suddenly realized why I like this site so much, hehe.

 

EDIT:

 

 

It's better than Bliss anyway. The order is happiness -> joy -> bliss -> peace and contentment.

Thanks for the compliment regardless of the thuth in it.

 

Yes, here we can share our most inner thoughts and feelings.

 

I like your ordering. There's much more to it than that but still good.

[Marblehead]

Actually, remaining there is all I've wanted to do since I saw it for the first time.

We can't remain there though as everything else is changing. We must change with many of the changes and then we call it "getting back there".

[Stosh]

There it is. Everyone read this line, it's what I meant with all my words words words.

 

Actually, remaining there is all I've wanted to do since I saw it for the first time.

Im glad , you found the phrase fitting

 

Ive got a question back for you regarding though , as long as we are on the same page here,,

Do you consider that an emotion ?, or a sensation ? , or maybe some primal state of being which shouldnt get called either of those?.

( or perhaps all the words getting used for it are suboptimal)

[Kajenx]

It seems like it's emotionless to me, or maybe desireless. If there is nothing you want or need in that moment, it's just perfect.

[Stosh]

Ok fine , its perfect , but isnt everything 'perfect' ?, that is to say , exactly whatever it IS.

For most folks when they say perfect they are talking about a thing thats completely or homogenously of some character which they approve of. Such as a perfect diamond , or a perfect day or perfectly miserable. ..but your words are instead indicating that your perfect state is in fact ,completely-not emotion and homogenously not-having desire,, but those are not positive assertions about the character of the state,, they are just saying some things that the state is completely NOT.

For example , today I am jacketless, but that doesnt preclude sweaters...

So if youre sure you want to exclude emotion and exclude desire as descriptive of it ,, what is it?

( Im not asking this from a point where I think I have an irrefutable answer in mind for you, Im just of an opinion that the response didnt really hit at an answer)

Edited June 3, 2014 by Stosh

[Kajenx]

Haha, in fairness to you I didn't give much of an answer. I didn't get the thrust of your question either, though. I'll try a little harder.

 

You're asking for a description of the thing itself rather than a definition by negatives. I think I would call it pure awareness, or awareness of things exactly as they are. So when you look at, say, a plastic cup on your table, the act of seeing is just sight, there isn't anything attached to it. This makes the cup appear to be more real, somehow, like it's occupying the same space as you. The feeling this creates is hard to describe in positive words because that gives the wrong idea, I think. It's a "good" feeling, but that goodness comes from the fact that there is nothing you're required to add to what you're seeing. It's perfect because everything is equally agreeable - but that is a bit of a paradox because if everything is equaly agreeable, that's a bit like saying nothing is. There's just nothing that influences where the attention moves, so it generally just stays still.

 

So if you really need a direct definition of it, I think the best I could say is that it's the peace that comes from having nothing that needs to be done. It's just contentment - but it's complete and perfect contentment.

 

As to whether it's a primal state or something like that, I have no idea. I'm not sure how someone could tell that sort of thing. It feels like it's the most effortless way to live, but that is probably more of a feeling than a truth because it takes a lot of effort to short cuircut the mind's everyday habits to get there. This effort does seem to be lessening over time, though, so maybe it's similar to the effortlessness of a piano player, where practice forms new habits that lead to efficiency in the brain.

[Stosh]

Well said ! ( and worth saying)..........

 

So having this pearl inside ,,

having awareness of this awareness,,

this contentment ,, this high perch ..

Might one find a new fortitude to approach ones problems

Might one be more disposed to make the soundest decisions

might one be more inclined to exert ,share of themselves

and enjoy the sunrise undisturbed all the more ?

Or would they require to be sequestered, and hidden in a hole of their own making

in order to keep this placid richness around themselves.?

For as I see it , mastery of ones emotions wouldnt take some self battering suppression

if one is instead freed.

 

( and there you have it , my idea of how to master ones emotions)

Edited June 4, 2014 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Might one find a new fortitude to approach ones problems

I have no problems - only many opportunities to express my worthiness.

[Stosh]

I have no problems - only many opportunities to express my worthiness.

Worthiness of what to whom? ( by problems I mean considerations which impact completion of whatever the heck it is you decide to effect ,, as you well know)

[Kajenx]

Stosh, I'm going to be contrarian even though you were writing your ideas rather poetically. ^^ I wouldn't call it awareness of awareness. That's one of the paths there, but it's not the destination. It also isn't a high perch from which you view the world, as that implies a distance or separation. It's better to think of it as complete nakedness. You give up both good and bad and step into the world exactly as it is without turning away from anything or towards anything else. It turns out that this world is always without problems, so there are no problems to face or overcome. What problems could there be for a mind with no desires? There is just a simple contentment with whatever arises, however it arises, for however long it arises. This mind enjoys both a sunrise and a blank white wall equally undisturbed and content, but that's not because it has drawn inward dwelling on its own contentment. It's because it sees equal value in the sunrise and the blank white wall. There is no "inward" for this mind, so there is nowhere for it to run. It just stays where it is because all other options have been removed. It turns out that the tension of trying to move our attention is what causes stress and pain, and when we simply give up and let our attention come to rest, the mind is saturated with the peace of effortlessness.

 

An interesting anecdote: A man once passed out drunk at his kitchen table and woke up later in a field 20 miles away. Turns out a tornado had come through and carried him all that way. He didn't have any injuries whatsoever. Medical experts explained that, because the alcohol had caused him to be completely without resistance, his muscles had acted as soft padding for his bones, and his joints could bend freely and absorb the impact of falling out of the sky.

[Marblehead]

Worthiness of what to whom?

Of whatever to myself. That's all.

[Stosh]

Stosh, I'm going to be contrarian even though you were writing your ideas rather poetically. ^^ I wouldn't call it awareness of awareness. That's one of the paths there, but it's not the destination. It also isn't a high perch from which you view the world, as that implies a distance or separation. It's better to think of it as complete nakedness. You give up both good and bad and step into the world exactly as it is without turning away from anything or towards anything else. It turns out that this world is always without problems, so there are no problems to face or overcome. What problems could there be for a mind with no desires? There is just a simple contentment with whatever arises, however it arises, for however long it arises. This mind enjoys both a sunrise and a blank white wall equally undisturbed and content, but that's not because it has drawn inward dwelling on its own contentment. It's because it sees equal value in the sunrise and the blank white wall. There is no "inward" for this mind, so there is nowhere for it to run. It just stays where it is because all other options have been removed. It turns out that the tension of trying to move our attention is what causes stress and pain, and when we simply give up and let our attention come to rest, the mind is saturated with the peace of effortlessness.

 

An interesting anecdote: A man once passed out drunk at his kitchen table and woke up later in a field 20 miles away. Turns out a tornado had come through and carried him all that way. He didn't have any injuries whatsoever. Medical experts explained that, because the alcohol had caused him to be completely without resistance, his muscles had acted as soft padding for his bones, and his joints could bend freely and absorb the impact of falling out of the sky.

Where would the world be without contrarians ? ( Mh-less for one thing) No, I like it that you want to draw your lines clear, my own angle could be called a spin , since I do understand exactly what youre saying in this post , and the logical conceptry that it reveals, Its just my own take , an ironic one , that ,,perhaps in line with Zanshin,, which is that there is another logical kind of position one may find COULD hold true , than the straightforward one you feel is, ummm , clearest.

Its rather often , that the teachings of Taoism , as I understand them,, do contain a heavy element of irony. For instance , if I speak of the interfering downside of trying to "HELP" ,generally there is a rebuff ( which I expect) because the connnections which I carry through with ,, umm constitute a longer path of reasoning. Or pehaps saying that Tao is A-moral , rather than a morality teaching ,gets refuted because the ideas about amorality being "bad" overwhelms an audience before theyve gone the route of understandng what it can mean without the predisposition of labelling things "bad"... or "good" for that matter. OR that they think the title- rendering of the TTC is accurate.( which I understand it not to be) Or again , that the TTC was written for royalty, which , even if it does have an element of truth ,, is overwhelmed by the fact that when all is said and done royalty really isnt any different from you. ( do you think the queen ever was flatulent ? and additionally evidenced by the millions who attempt to apply its teachings who clearly arent operating as Royals )

So anyway to make the long story short,, I like your sticktuitiveness and we shall see in time whether that which youve discovered, affects you more in the way you describe, or whether I was not very far off. In the meanwhile , theres tons of other tidbits.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Stosh

[Stosh]

Of whatever to myself. That's all.

Good ! thats the One who matters most.

[Kajenx]

I'd like to make a slight adjustment to my descriptions, because I've seen that things are actually a bit simpler than I thought. There's no need to spend any effort focusing on the senses because that just happens automatically. The method I seem to have been using, without completely realizing it, is just acceptance.

 

By letting things happen on their own, all conflicts are removed, which ends all stress. There are no desires because desire itself is seen as the cause of stress. It seems like this "out of control" mental processing is always true, I've just never seen it before. Like, if you raise your hand in front of your face and wave it around, how did you do that? Thoughts stream by, sensory impressions happen, it's all completely out of control. When there is no resistance to these processes, they happen fluidly and without any suffering. Just like that, too. It's very odd.