Mastering the emotions

[Jetsun]

I think where difficulty and struggle begins is when, as emotional beings, we get stumped by conditioning -- as men, we learn from a tender age that crying is weak, and as women, emotional irresponsiveness leads to failure. It takes guts for real men to shed tears out of tenderness/empathy, and women with all their responsibilities and juggling home life and professional demands are entitled to be stronger emotionally. What would become problematic is allowing disharmony... not knowing when its time to do the right thing.

 

On a positive note, there seems to be a raised awareness around this matter of opening up more to release stress-related contractiveness, and men and women are slowly rekindling their inner, more spontaneous nature. Male CEOs are now learning to smell flowers and finding joy in intimacy, whereas their female counterparts are starting to become comfortable with guzzling pints of lager and smoking cigars!! (just kiddin, the last bit)

 

The conditioning is incredibly deep on both society and family levels to deny and dissociate from various emotional experiences and the main gist of healing in my opinion is to bring back into acceptance and awareness emotional content which you have spent your entire life regarding as unacceptable and not wanted. In my own journey I have had to try to embrace my vulnerable emotions and I soon realised that the vast majority of people I have met don't have the maturity to deal with it, for example there have been times when I openly express things like despair and sadness and everyone around me immediately do all they can to try to get it to go away, they think they are helping but in reality it is more of the same of trying to push something away which is deemed as scary and not wanted, so is infact a form of aggression, even though it is innocent and not intended that is what it is.

 

Even when people say things like "think of all the starving children in Africa" as a means of comparison to your problems it is just another way to try to deny your genuine emotional experience to try to make it go away. Emotional maturity is actually quite rare I find even in most of our world leaders and people in high positions of responsibility,as far as I can tell most of the world is in a state of stunted emotional growth..

[Jeff]

...

 

Just one tiny point which needs clarification: Its not clear to me why you equate contraction with emotions. Could you explain further? In my experience, transformed emotions brings about correct view of reality, and also arouses compassionate urges to be kind, thoughtful, and all the other transcendent states both for self and others, which results in a very expansive state of being. This is the area where there appears to be some niggling doubts.

 

Hi CT,

 

Are not things like "anger" just automated (ego) responses? With clarity, does not anger drop? Which emotions qualify as your "good" ones to keep?

 

Best regards,

Jeff

[Brian]

One's current meat-suit is a well-articulated and marvelously complex biological entity. Learn your emotions and you extend your potential scope of awareness. Learn to recognize the emotions of others and you further enhance your interface with that which surrounds you.

 

 

In my estimation, the question is not about judging the "goodness" of emotional responses but about creating a relative pool of "goodness." Observationally, the "goodness" of one's balance of emotional response (EDIT: as well as one's balance along & between other dimensions) is largely reflected in the wake one leaves behind.

 

 

Remember that a person detached from emotions, including empathy towards others, and lacking a moral compass is called a sociopath...

[BaguaKicksAss]

I have seen folks take the practice the wrong way (imo), and just stuff all the emotions and/or block them off. I mean intentionally, all day everyday, thinking it is the proper path to moving onwards and upwards spiritually or energetically.

[johndoe2012]

People suppress the emotions because they get taught to do so.

 

Some spiritual traditions make this even worse because they don't know how to deal with it and so the only answer is to keep suppressing yourself.

 

There's nothing wrong with anger, sadness and so on.

[C T]

Hi CT,

 

Are not things like "anger" just automated (ego) responses? With clarity, does not anger drop? Which emotions qualify as your "good" ones to keep?

 

Best regards,

Jeff

 

Clarity

 

The vajra family reflects a blue energy like a crystal-clear mirror. Vajra energy reflects what it sees without bias. When people manifest the wisdom aspect of vajra, they are clear-minded with an intellectual brilliance, sharp and precise. They maintain a perspective and are full of integrity. Vajra also has a self-righteousness that can harden into cold or hot anger. When people manifest the confused quality of vajra, they can be overly analytical, critical, opinionated, authoritarian and demanding of perfection.

 

(extracted from http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1658)

 

The full article is quite clear wrt the Buddhist view of emotional transmutation, the corresponding implications, and also the transcendent qualities. Basically, its not two different emotions, but how its directed which decides outcomes. Hence the saying that samsara and nirvana is fundamentally inseparable.

 

Hope you find it helpful, Jeff!

 

Blessings!!

[Jeff]

 

Clarity

 

The vajra family reflects a blue energy like a crystal-clear mirror. Vajra energy reflects what it sees without bias. When people manifest the wisdom aspect of vajra, they are clear-minded with an intellectual brilliance, sharp and precise. They maintain a perspective and are full of integrity. Vajra also has a self-righteousness that can harden into cold or hot anger. When people manifest the confused quality of vajra, they can be overly analytical, critical, opinionated, authoritarian and demanding of perfection.

 

(extracted from http://www.shambhalasun.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1658)

 

The full article is quite clear wrt the Buddhist view of emotional transmutation, the corresponding implications, and also the transcendent qualities. Basically, its not two different emotions, but how its directed which decides outcomes. Hence the saying that samsara and nirvana is fundamentally inseparable.

 

Hope you find it helpful, Jeff!

 

Blessings!!

 

Yes, I would agree that with "self righteousness" there is anger, whether it is hot or cold. But, there is only very limited clarity (not emptiness of self) if there is self righteousness...

 

From the Dhammapada...

 

17. Anger

Let go of anger.

Let go of pride.

When you are bound by nothing

You go beyond sorrow.

Anger is like a chariot careering wildly.

He who curbs his anger is the true charioteer.

Others merely hold the reins.

With gentleness overcome anger.

With generosity overcome meanness.

With truth overcome deceit.

Speak the truth.

Give whenever you can,

Never be angry.

These three steps will lead you

Into the presence of the gods.

The wise harm no one.

They are masters of their bodies

And they go to the boundless country.

They go beyond sorrow.

Those who seek perfection

Keep watch day and night

Till all desires vanish.

...

 

Or for the Dzogchen fans...

 

But a practitioner of Dzogchen, in the moment of becoming angry, attempts neither to block nor to transform the passion, but observes it without judging it. In this way the anger will dissolve by itself, as if it had been left in its natural condition, allowing it to liberate of itself.

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State (Kindle Locations 483-485). Kindle Edition.

Best wishes,

Jeff

[C T]

 

But a practitioner of Dzogchen, in the moment of becoming angry, attempts neither to block nor to transform the passion, but observes it without judging it. In this way the anger will dissolve by itself, as if it had been left in its natural condition, allowing it to liberate of itself.

Chogyal Namkhai Norbu. Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State (Kindle Locations 483-485). Kindle Edition.

Best wishes,

Jeff

That encouragement applies only to middling practitioners more or less, to understand how to calm distractions.

 

Apologies to the OP for veering off-topic.

Edited June 19, 2014 by C T

[Kajenx]

I call the lack of internal contraction emotionless because it has no variation and no expression. It is perfectly still and completely different from emotional thinking. I can't really think of a better way to describe it.

 

The problem is that emotionlessness has a negative conotation. However, negativity is, itself, the product of emotional thinking, so you couldn't call this state negative. It simply IS. Everything simply IS.

 

I can see that this thread has taken on a new topic though. I don't think there's much use for me to keep repeating things. I can try one last time though. I never endorsed any kind of emotional suppression. I'm simply reporting what's happened when I took the teachings and ideas I've read to their logical conclusion in practice - I accepted everything and this is what resulted. The information is here for anyone who might find it useful. I was going to make a larger post of TTC references to acceptance, indifference, etc, but that's a bit hard to do on the tablet. I hope I don't sound conceited when I say this, but I just don't feel like anyone can relate to what I'm saying. The state itself should be easy to recognise by the descriptions I gave. If anyone is interested in seeing it first hand, the key, as always, is acceptance without exception. Let go of all control and judgement and it will quietly take you away. I don't make any judgements about if this is the aim or goal of taoism or buddhism - I just can't see what the mind could find better. When I say that everything is perfect, I really mean it. Perfection in all of its seeming impossibility. The whole world becomes complete and fresh and pure - which means it always has been, and it's simply the mind that made it otherwise with emotional thinking.

[Simple_Jack]

@ Kajenx

 

Anatta (anatman) should be translated as impersonal in this context (this is not usually understood by Buddhists) - that realisation (that none of this is personal) seems not to have occurred yet.

 

Anatman in Buddhism = you are just a bundle of impermanent psycho-physical processes i.e 5 aggregates, 12 sense gates, 18 sense elements.

 

People suppress the emotions because they get taught to do so.

 

Some spiritual traditions make this even worse because they don't know how to deal with it and so the only answer is to keep suppressing yourself.

 

There's nothing wrong with anger, sadness and so on.

 

 

If by "suppressing", you mean controlling the afflictions (kleshas) through sila and samadhi, then Eastern traditions (using this as an umbrella term) can be charged with this.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[johndoe2012]

 

Anatman in Buddhism = you are just a bundle of impermanent psycho-physical processes i.e 5 aggregates, 12 sense gates, 18 sense elements.

 

 

 

If by "suppressing", you mean controlling the afflictions (kleshas) through sila and samadhi, then Eastern traditions (using this as an umbrella term) can be charged with this.

What do you mean by "charged"?

[C T]

In post 184, Kajenx posits this interesting view -- That the label "emotionless" is stuck onto the absence of internal contraction due to 2 factors, namely, this state is empty of variation, and cannot be expressed.

 

From a Buddhist perspective, such a view is adopted usually by pratyekabuddhas, the lone travellers who attain liberation and leave the mundane world behind. Seen in this light, the points made by Kajenx becomes much clearer and definitely valid.

 

Some practitioners do move beyond this level, but its all down to one's affinity and experiential insights.

[Marblehead]

From a Buddhist perspective, such a view is adopted usually by pratyekabuddhas, the lone travellers who attain liberation and leave the mundane world behind. Seen in this light, the points made by Kajenx becomes much clearer and definitely valid.

Sounds a little like the story of The Cucumber Sage.

[Simple_Jack]

What do you mean by "charged"?

 

They advocate suppression of the afflictions (kleśa) primarily through ethical discipline (śīla) and meditative absorption (samadhi/dhyana).

[Simple_Jack]

Of course, the commonality shared between Dharmic religions, is in the reduction of the afflictions which sustains the cycle of reincarnation in samsara, which is achieved through (various types of) yoga/meditation.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Simple_Jack

[Marblehead]

I have one more thing to say in this thread before it goes dead.

 

Without our emotions we would never experience the emotions of love, bliss or ecstasy. What a sad life that would be!

[Simple_Jack]

Yet at the same time, reduction in the afflictions which sustains samsara, leads to feelings of ever increasing bliss and ecstasy beyond worldly comparison, as well as feelings of compassion and unconditional love; at least according to the accounts of religious scriptures and yogi's past and present.

[Marblehead]

Yet at the same time,

Or so they say.

[Simple_Jack]

Yeah, I guess that would be experienced gradually and increasingly during the process of extensive mind-body transformation through yoga/meditation. The psychophysiological affects of meditative absorption, are outside the grasp, of the majority of humanities day-to-day experience.

[Marblehead]

Now you are getting rather heavy on me. Hehehe. The forms of meditation.

 

Yes, I suppose that one could have a meditative goals of attaining bliss and ecstasy and at some point, if the devotion is pure, attain such a state, even if it is an imagined state.

 

In a deep meditative state it is sometimes difficult to differentiate between what is real and what is not. But if the feelings, the emotions were there it really wouldn't make too much difference whether they were real or imagined. They would like feel the exact same way.

 

But I'm an empty-minded meditator so I can't go there.

[Simple_Jack]

You're also a die-hard physicalist, with no incentive of accepting the psychological and physiological validity of extensive long term effects of meditation, since none of it matters for you in the end.

[Marblehead]

And your ability to observe and understand is rather well-tuned.

[Simple_Jack]

Not really, you've pretty much stated that a bunch of times.

[Marblehead]

Not really, you've pretty much stated that a bunch of times.

What? Are you suggesting that I repeat myself?

 

Well, of course I do. People who don't know me yet always think I am somebody else.

[Simple_Jack]

No, I'm not suggesting that, it just confuses me as to why you bother to comment on matters dealing with yogic experience from a purely physicalist standpoint.