Mastering the emotions

[Kajenx]

@ Marblehead: If given the option between love/bliss and anxiety, I would choose bliss as well. The options that have presented in my experience show a third choice, though, which is the absence of both, and I would easily choose this third option every time. It's as far beyond bliss in its "rightness for the mind" as bliss is from anxiety.

 

Can you honestly say you'd choose a life with anxiety if you found a way never to feel it again? That's essentially what I see when I read you guys talking about what a shame it would be to lose positive emotions. They are just as contacted as anxiety, and I just can't take them seriously anymore. Love and bliss are agony when compared to true freedom. The moment my mind drops discrimination, it just sits back and says, "ahhhh, why was I doing that to myself?"

 

In any case, the same method - acceptance - leads the mind into a full bodied bliss equivalent to the jhanas (IME so far) with no concentration required. From there you can decide if you want to let go of the bliss as well, which seems to be the final step in the transition process. It's quite easy to stay in once it gets going.

 

@Simple_Jack: I'm a materialist as well. :3

Edited June 22, 2014 by Kajenx

[Simple_Jack]

The mental factors of jhanas, aren't the complete picture in the overall process of yoga, the body as well undergoes transformation which engenders states of bliss and so on. As for the issue of physicalism, that's fine and dandy, but outside of a secular ethics, as in the case of Marblehead, it renders the path of cultivation utterly irrelevant, which is why it perplexes me as to why people who adhere to this ideology bother with cultivation in the first place (other than as a mild form of stress relief?).

[Marblehead]

No, I'm not suggesting that, it just confuses me as to why you bother to comment on matters dealing with yogic experience from a purely physicalist standpoint.

Okay. Now I can understand your wonderment. I have been called a physicalist. I prefer a "materialist". Yes, in body and mind.

 

And there are practices that deal very well with the physical aspect of our life that include spiritual aspects as well. I cannot speak to the spiritual aspects but I can speak to the physical aspects of many of these practices.

 

There are others who can and will speak to the spiritual aspects. I will not pretent to be something I am not therefore I remain silent to these aspects.

[Marblehead]

@ Marblehead: If given the option between love/bliss and anxiety, I would choose bliss as well. The options that have presented in my experience show a third choice, though, which is the absence of both, and I would easily choose this third option every time. It's as far beyond bliss in its "rightness for the mind" as bliss is from anxiety.

 

Can you honestly say you'd choose a life with anxiety if you found a way never to feel it again? That's essentially what I see when I read you guys talking about what a shame it would be to lose positive emotions. They are just as contacted as anxiety, and I just can't take them seriously anymore. Love and bliss are agony when compared to true freedom. The moment my mind drops discrimination, it just sits back and says, "ahhhh, why was I doing that to myself?"

 

In any case, the same method - acceptance - leads the mind into a full bodied bliss equivalent to the jhanas (IME so far) with no concentration required. From there you can decide if you want to let go of the bliss as well, which seems to be the final step in the transition process. It's quite easy to stay in once it gets going.

Hi Kajenx,

 

Even though it may appear that I am trying to be a pain in the ass in this thread of your I'm really not. I am just trying to express my understandings the best way I can. And I'm really not arguing with you, I am just disagreeing with you. You will, afterall, do what you feel is right for you.

 

What about anxieties? I have removed the causes of most anxieties from my life. Very few people are close enough to my inner peace to be able to cause me anxiety.

 

The events of reality are just that. Sometimes shit happens that I have no control over. Oh well. Yes, that's how I view most of them. When I mess up that too is an "oh well".

 

I'm not suggesting that I never experience anxiety but those times have become rather infrequent. And when they doo happen they are reminders that I shouldn't be taking life too seriously. It's life and life only. (That's from some song - maybe Bob Dylan.)

 

Sure, there are some things in life that I have no control of that cause me anxiety. I'm still working on not letting them bother me. Whatever happens external to my 'self' should have no effect whatever on my inner peace and contentment.

 

But I can still enjoy the thrill of seeing a hummingbird or getting a hug from a young lady or seeing how beautifully the flowering plants are presenting their colored blooms.

 

I have said before that I think we all should test and experience our own individual capabilities and capacities to their fullest. This would include all the emotions as well.

 

But that's me and that's as far as I can take it.

[Marblehead]

The mental factors of jhanas, aren't the complete picture in the overall process of yoga, the body as well undergoes transformation which engenders states of bliss and so on. As for the issue of physicalism, that's fine and dandy, but outside of a secular ethics, as in the case of Marblehead, it renders the path of cultivation utterly irrelevant, which is why it perplexes me as to why people who adhere to this ideology bother with cultivation in the first place (other than as a mild form of stress relief?).

Perhaps if we live long enough one day you will understand me a little better. Maybe not.

[Kajenx]

I don't think you're a pain in the ass. ^^ I just want to convince you (and everyone else) that this goal is worth it, so I'm trying my best to dissolve your arguments. I'm not sure it's possible to convey the exact feeling in a way that would make much sense and still be accurate, though. I'm trying to err on the side of accuracy because I think it's incredibly useful to lay this out so baldly. In many ways it's very simple - the emotions are the cause of all judgements, and judgements are why we experience stress. That's how I've come to see it. I really do understand why it sounds like a cop out, though. I can tell you all day that it's the best experience in the world, and you probably won't believe me. I wouldn't believe myself either if I hadn't seen it first hand. I can say forever that it's perfect and nothing is a problem, and bliss feels like pain in comparison, but you'll probably always come back to the fact that you're "losing" the emotions. You'll think about love and compassion and say to yourself, "This guy s crazy! These feelings are so good! Why would I get rid of them just to feel nothing like a sociopath? He must be suffering greatly, or maybe he hates himself. Maybe he's just overly intillectual and wants to be a vulcan." Does that sound right? I can tell you it's nothing like this.

 

I'm a total hedonist, and my greatest ambition has always been to find the best way to live. Logic led me to realize that, if I could hack the brain to enjoy everything, I wouldn't have to depend on any situation to be happy. Perfect happiness was always my goal. Over the years I've seen glimpses of a state of mind where this perfect happiness existed, but I never understood it very well, and I usually lost interest because it seemed too hard to get back or maintain. But on New Years Eve it finally locked in completely, and it blew my mind. I can only say two things about it - it's emotionless, and this is precisely why it's perfect. I've been able to drop more of my "stuff" in the last few months than at any other point in my life, simply because I realized it was in the way. This mind state makes it possible to enjoy everything, so I now only see negativity as my own damn fault. ^^

 

You mentioned anxiety, and trying not to let it bother you. The reason I think this mind can become perminant is because it enjoys anxiety. It transforms it into bliss, then lets go of it completely. It attacks the root of the problem - the feeling - rather than trying to work through every cause or trigger for anxiety. When all the feelings have been worked through, it's amazing to see how these triggers no longer have effect. The mind is so still and the world is so perfect it would be a complete rapture and joy if the emotions were still there. Luckily, though, they aren't and it allows you to see that the reason the world is so perfect and beautiful, is because it's so mundain and ordinary. There is nothing that ever needs to change about anything except the way you see it - and the best way to see it is without any filters.

[Marblehead]

Well, one thing for sure, it is very apparent that you truely believe what you are talking about. And if this is where you wish to be then that is great.

 

Yes, I have attained that state you are talking about when I enter empty-minded meditation. But I don't stay there and really don't want to.

 

I'm so old there's not all that much that bothers me anymore anyhow.

 

Best Wishes.

Edited June 22, 2014 by Marblehead

[Kajenx]

Oh good! I'm glad you can relate to what I'm saying at least. I'm curious why you meditate though. Do you have some other goal/purpose, or have you already found the proverbial "home for the mind" and meditation is just a pleasant passtime?

[Marblehead]

Excellent question! Why do I do the things I do? Truthfully, most times I have no idea. I love living spontaneously. I just do or don't do as I am inspired. (Remember, I am an old man, fully retired and living alone.)

 

To the meditation, no, there is no alterior purpose in my meditating. Occasionally I will get inspired to meditate so I do. (Likely there had been something bothering my mind that I couldn't let go of and meditation is an excellent way for me to let go.)

 

I do sometimes go into a near meditative state when I am active doing mundane things in the gardens or at the fish ponds. I can easily slip off when I sit down at the ponds (when the dogs are not talking with each other.) (All my neighbors have dogs.) The sound of the waterfalls is rather hypnotizing.

[3bob]

"I just want to convince you (and everyone else) that this goal is worth it, so I'm trying my best to dissolve your arguments" by K.

 

This is obviously a variation or form of emotion, and one that is more or less or often exercised in vain. Btw, Taoism tells us:

"if you have really attained wholeness, everything will flock to you" (TTC 22) Thus there is no need for a high horse.

[Kajenx]

Sounds like a nice life MH. I'm still a young whippersnapper, so maybe that's why I've been a bit evangelical, haha... 3bob, I'm not trying to ride on a high horse - but you're correct in saying I've had emotional motivations. I can't make claim to living in this mind-frame all the time. It's likely I won't have any motivation to share ideas if this process completes the way I think it will, though. Maybe making this thread has been a kind of catharsis for the part of my mind that wants to teach. Now that it's been frustrated by language, it can give up, safe in the knowledge that anything I might have to offer the world in the future will likely be created unintentionally and without effort - the place from which all good things come.

[3bob]

Well Kajenx I'd say all of us are going through -process- of some kind or another... (as you have alluded to)

 

One thing I know (haha), the "mind" and or its states does not have it and is not it.

 

Good luck

[manitou]

Haven't been following this whole thread - but i can add that the lack of highs and lows, once one is Self-Realized, is replaced by a type of Joy that is with you always. It is with you even through tears---my kitten was recently run over on the highway and I cried my eyes out. And although it ripped my heart out, there was something about crying that hard that felt really good. I'm sure the kitten grief was a proxy for unresolved issues within me to release as well.

 

The Joy is present when stuck in traffic, it overrides frustration while waiting in lines - it makes us oh so much more patient with our partners. The Joy is there when I remember to stay in the center of the hub of the wheel, where the void lives.

[ChiDragon]

Interesting question.....
How many of you are learning or cultivating to master your emotions on TTB.......???

Edited June 23, 2014 by ChiDragon

[manitou]

Interesting question.....

How many of you are learning or cultivating to master you emotions on TTB.......???

 

I think this is a perfect place to work on the subtleties (and not so subtleties) of our ego.

[Brian]

Tumbling river rocks

[Marblehead]

First there is a mountain then there are tumbling river rocks.

[C T]

Haven't been following this whole thread - but i can add that the lack of highs and lows, once one is Self-Realized, is replaced by a type of Joy that is with you always. It is with you even through tears---my kitten was recently run over on the highway and I cried my eyes out. And although it ripped my heart out, there was something about crying that hard that felt really good. I'm sure the kitten grief was a proxy for unresolved issues within me to release as well.

 

The Joy is present when stuck in traffic, it overrides frustration while waiting in lines - it makes us oh so much more patient with our partners. The Joy is there when I remember to stay in the center of the hub of the wheel, where the void lives.

There is no joy in struggling against what cannot be changed, yet, its a very common practice. This is the root cause of misery, not the actual, temporary unsatisfactoriness of a particular circumstance or event.

 

For years, i hated to be caught in queues. It was my biggest issue. I would grumble, mutter stupid things, blame the cashier, the customers, anything i could think of that made my utter contempt justifiable. With every queue, another layer of ignorance gets compounded, and on and on. Then, after being taught a practice to take in other people's misery, i began to try doing that each time i got stuck in queues, and after doing that for quite a few weeks, all the layers of ignorance simply dissolved. Now, its just a breeze, and also, not only has queues become tolerable, it actually helps to further my practice. From poison to nectar -- magical alchemy.

Edited June 23, 2014 by C T

[BaguaKicksAss]

Interesting question.....

How many of you are learning or cultivating to master your emotions on TTB.......???

 

TTBs is an awesome place for cultivation practice!

[Marblehead]

For years, i hated to be caught in queues.

I just holler out in my strong military voice that we need another register open. Most times it works.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I often will practice my one legged balance standing, or check my txt messages while in line . Sometimes neigong too...

[3bob]

I just holler out in my strong military voice that we need another register open. Most times it works.

 

cool, I've never tried that. Another thing: most tellers ask you if you found everything ok, and sometimes I say no because they don't have it and don't stock it, along with the fact that there is very little or nothing the teller can do about it ...maybe over-loaded tellers don't need to hear that?

[Marblehead]

cool, I've never tried that. Another thing: most tellers ask you if you found everything ok, and sometimes I say no because they don't have it and don't stock it, along with the fact that there is very little or nothing the teller can do about it ...maybe over-loaded tellers don't need to hear that?

Hehehe. Yes, I have noticed that this has become an industry practice. I hear it nearly everywhere.

 

Oftentime I will respond with, "Yes, I found everything I was looking for and a lot more stuff too but I'm not going to buy any of that other stuff."

 

My naughty response to the question, "Do you want a bag?" after buying just one small item, is "No. I divorced my old one." Guys and young women laugh or at least smile. I won't say anything about the dirty looks I get from older women.

[C T]

I just holler out in my strong military voice that we need another register open. Most times it works.

If it works for you, well and good. Over here, if that was done in certain places, one would get arrested. The hospital is one of these places, another one would be in the airports. Airport security can be quite jumpy as regards to sudden loud noises.

 

Also, there are some German chain supermarkets here that has a really weird customer check-out system. No matter how busy the place is, the maximum number of check-out assistants they will assign to handle the flow is 2, when its super duper frenetic. Other than this, under normal 'busy', only one lane will be opened, regardless. Plus, 95% of these stores have only 3 check-out lanes. A couple of mega stores will have 4. Somehow, one of the lanes is never, ever opened, for some strange reason. Maybe reserved in the event of a stampede. I dunno.

[Kajenx]

Haha, I've always liked waiting in line. It means there's nothing else to do or think about for a while - simplifies life for the few minutes you're standing there.