Mo Pai Discussion and Vote

[C T]

It is good to read the comments, the passion against it and the compassion to figure out how to let it exist.

Imo, its the other way round.

[gatito]

Yes and...

 

Yes - Don't let the internet search this area.

 

And perhaps allow only one post per day (or per two days or per week?) per member in that area in order to encourage considered and considerate posting until the issues with "moderation" here are resolved (if indeed that's possible - which I strongly doubt).

[thelerner]

I voted no for the following reasons:

 

First, Mo Pai has been the source of more wasted time on this forum than any other single subject.

Second..

Third..

Stop right there.

You had me at #1.

[dawei]

Yes and...

 

Yes - Don't let the internet search this area.

 

And perhaps allow only one post per day (or per two days or per week?) per member in that area in order to encourage considered and considerate posting until the issues with "moderation" here are resolved (if indeed that's possible - which I strongly doubt).

 

Interesting that you mention this... we just implemented restricted daily posting to new members so they cannot fly around like a bluebird and dirty up the place.

[Friend]

You can make one so a Mo Pai Subforum is done.

 

Then doing observervation if it is appropiate to maintain it.

Actually the mods know that it will be busy work and they have

to decide to take the trouble to handle flame war discussion.

 

Also discussion summary of core ideas and arguments should be put into

fixed topic which the mod lock so people who want to discuss have to read it first so they not repeat themselves.

As well other people do not want read 48 pages and more to filter out what is said... and this is a bunch of people.

 

The systematic would be only as statement in the summary as categorizing

Mo Pai, Jim, Kostas, Magus of Java said and if there are statements from other lineages like "lineage xy hold this idea"

The mod who choose it has to keep the summary neutral and filtering out personal attacks, non topic related, runts and jokes.

 

A third fixed topic would be releated to the summary.

The topic serves the opinion of the formulation of the facts, you can see it as proofreading.

 

The Mo Pai Forum will be heated and the summary is serving as the calm pole to keep things objective.

 

You can consider it an experiment.

Else suggestion of a psychology expert who is good in group dynamics is recommended as advisor.

 

The question what is the goal of the Mo Pai Forum and what advantages and learning can we have?

[gatito]

Interesting that you mention this... we just implemented restricted daily posting to new members so they cannot fly around like a bluebird and dirty up the place.

 

Synchronicity's a funny thing...

 

And, incidentally, I was glad to see that you seem to be committed to a vision of TTBs that I could support (post # 26).

 

Now - the practicalities...

[BaguaKicksAss]

What about an option for filtering any new Mopai posts/threads so they do not appear in the "View New Content" page? That way, I don't even know that they exist.

 

There is no way to do this with the forum software, unfortunately.

[BaguaKicksAss]

But, imagine if, all the mopai threads didn't show up on google searches for here. Go do a Mo Pai (or mopai) search on google.... It's where much of our traffic comes from.. though I forget the exact % now (it's above 60%).

[skydog]

How about a DragonBall Z section next?

 

Dragonball z is pretty cool

[Green Tiger]

Dragonball z is pretty cool

 

I was always kind of partial to the original Dragonball. Z was too drawn out.

[joeblast]

In the Pit, where it belongs. I dont see an issue with letting them flame themselves there, it'll be good and out of the way for the rest of us that pursue accomplish-able goals.

[Ya Mu]

I would like to make a comment in support of the real Mo Pai.

 

If folks look at my posts they will see little to no use of the words "Mo Pai". That is because I respect them, unlike the insulters and deluded juvenile acting laugh-behind-their-hands non-practitioners who read a beginners book and attempt to lay claim to something that is not theirs; none of them have been taught by a real teacher of the system.

 

An actual representative of the Mo Pai has been on this board and respectfully said that they wished to be left alone.

Why can't we respect their wishes? If they - the real Mo Pai - at some point wish to have conversations on here then great.

 

Do we really wish to add insult to the actual practitioners of the system?

[Zhongyongdaoist]

On the other hand, probably 90% of our troubles are Mo Pai (and a majority of the rest in the Buddhist subforum)... well, we have a subforum where we do contain a known thorny member/discussion issue (Buddhism)... Mo Pai doesn't have the containment.

... but we all do see that Mo Pai attracts a certain kind of unrest at the board.

 

It is good to read the comments, the passion against it and the compassion to figure out how to let it exist.

 

Among the many differences between Buddhism and Mo Pai, some stand out that made a separate forum for Buddhism useful, among other things Buddhism is an established religion with many different schools, many interested parties, a vast literature and a long and varied history.

 

Mo Pai is practically a 'cult' that has recently emerged from a jungle in what, indonisia (?), with a supposed history, a few followers mostly attracted by promises of power, almost no literature and very little in the way of verified practices. It could be said that never have so many people, argued so long, over so little. Maybe they are so argumentative to draw attention a way from all these failings.

 

Adherents of both have had a tendency to post sectarian criticisms in other peoples threads and initiate long acrimonious exchanges. Of these sectarian criticisms the Buddhist ones were and are certainly the most substantial and of general interest, even if after a point, a pain in the anal chakra.

 

So, I can see a point for a Buddhist forum on the merits of the subject itself, but not one on the merits of Mo Pai. However:

 

But, imagine if, all the mopai threads didn't show up on google searches for here. Go do a Mo Pai (or mopai) search on google.... It's where much of our traffic comes from.. though I forget the exact % now (it's above 60%).

 

if one is concerned about the loss of traffic here, we could, quit cynically, create a 'wild animal park' for the tourists, fully acknowledging at least among ourselves, that it is for the unwashed 'yahoos and google bellies' who wander through. We civilized folk could even indulge in occasional 'bear baiting' for the amusement of the crowd. Though, if their tours are only through the 'wild animal park' they may miss the salutary and edifying experience provided by the rest of the board, which would be a real loss for them, so it may be of general benefit to keep the Mo Pai menace free, though declawed ('Aye there's the rub', how to declaw them!), so that the tourists will have to, albeit unknowingly, be exposed to the rest of our learned, informative and sometimes even interesting discussions.

 

I also suspect that pruned of their ability to freely go forth and insult and forced to actually post what is known and can be verified about Mo Pai without filling it full of exciting action based on insult and imagined injury, that it will soon be clear that there is not much content to it. Even the Kunlun controversies had more to discuss than Mo Pai and no forum was created for Kunlun.

 

[Brian]

I would like to make a comment in support of the real Mo Pai.

 

If folks look at my posts they will see little to no use of the words "Mo Pai". That is because I respect them, unlike the insulters and deluded juvenile acting laugh-behind-their-hands non-practitioners who read a beginners book and attempt to lay claim to something that is not theirs; none of them have been taught by a real teacher of the system.

 

An actual representative of the Mo Pai has been on this board and respectfully said that they wished to be left alone.

Why can't we respect their wishes? If they - the real Mo Pai - at some point wish to have conversations on here then great.

 

Do we really wish to add insult to the actual practitioners of the system?

I hadn't considered it from that perspective and it seems obvious now.

 

If a legitimate practitioner appears and, after meaningful participation in the forum, requests the creation of a Mo Pai sub-forum, I would then support it.

 

Until such time, however, I am reversing my vote in order to respect the specific request of the Mo Pai on this forum less than a year ago to be left alone.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Hmmmmm how about, a "controversial topics" section? We could put mopai, kunlun, and perhaps any others that seems to lead to flame wars... in there. None googleable of course...

[dawei]

I am reversing my vote in order to respect the specific request of the Mo Pai on this forum less than a year ago to be left alone.

 

Ok... so let's start the thread/vote over

 

 

BTW: I realized my question has a glitch and was going to joke about starting over... but eventually someone is going to take care of it anyways

[dawei]

Hmmmmm how about, a "controversial topics" section? We could put mopai, kunlun, and perhaps any others that seems to lead to flame wars... in there. None googleable of course...

mopai, kunlun, bagua... <ducks and runs>

[GreytoWhite]

I voted no to the subforum but yes to unsearchable if it does come into being.

[dawei]

I voted no to the subforum but yes to unsearchable if it does come into being.

 

Ah!!! Your the vote discrepancy (No=14; N/A for No=13)

 

This is what pointed out my question glitch... I should of just stayed with YES vs NO on the second one too!

 

Next time, I've got to listen to BKA

[Brian]

Did she also mention the "no means yes" issue with the wording of the second question?

 

<dodges_a_flying_shoe>

[dawei]

Did she also mention the "no means yes" issue with the wording of the second question?

 

<dodges_a_flying_shoe>

 

Yea... and I just had to create a negative question... where Yes means No...

 

<wandering off to the tiki bar>

[Chang]

I am afraid that I consider Mo Pai source of negativity within the forum and my vote has reflected that view.

[Friend]

I would like to make a comment in support of the real Mo Pai.

 

If folks look at my posts they will see little to no use of the words "Mo Pai". That is because I respect them, unlike the insulters and deluded juvenile acting laugh-behind-their-hands non-practitioners who read a beginners book and attempt to lay claim to something that is not theirs; none of them have been taught by a real teacher of the system.

 

An actual representative of the Mo Pai has been on this board and respectfully said that they wished to be left alone.

Why can't we respect their wishes? If they - the real Mo Pai - at some point wish to have conversations on here then great.

 

Do we really wish to add insult to the actual practitioners of the system?

True words.

 

As long Magus of Java exist new people will step up and repeat the questions over and over again

as long there are not answers that can satisfy them, either to give up or to find another way.

People aint warriors to begin with as a shaman told me: "A spirtual Warrior accept a Yes as a Yes and

a No as No and when he mean Yes or No then it is as it is"

 

Lately I am confronted with ethics and morality by lineageholder BaoLin Wu from the White Cloud Monastry

who wrote in the last chapter in the Feng Shui Book about ethics affect practise and the concept of Ba Qi/stopped Qi

and while Robert Peng wrote about Real Effort in his book Master Key.

Both things you have mentioned before and this book elaborate them by telling the lifestories.

 

Since a problem can not be solved on the same level then what has to be done then?

We pray for wisdom to solve the question.

One tells them over and over again to let them alone and in the years....have it worked?

An offical video on youtube that the school is closed would work when it comes directly from the mouth of

John Chang as a farewell.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Friend

[doc benway]

 

An actual representative of the Mo Pai has been on this board and respectfully said that they wished to be left alone.

Why can't we respect their wishes? If they - the real Mo Pai - at some point wish to have conversations on here then great.

 

I couldn't agree more. I've never intended to insult the Mo Pai - just looking to minimize the disruption caused by the posers and their bickering.

The question then becomes, how best to respect their wishes?

I think that keeping discussion of the system from being searchable may be the best way to do that.

Banning discussion is probably not reasonable or consistent with the mission of the board.

But if the discussion is not searchable, at least we're not calling unnecessary attention to those that are compelled to.

 

I have changed my vote to No regarding a separate sub-forum and Yes to NOT allowing the material to be searchable... It doesn't really follow the way the question was asked but so it goes.

 

One option would be to limit Mo Pai discussion to the Pit or PPF's - neither are searchable.

Threads started on the subject or diversions can be moved and repeat offenders can be cautioned or sanctioned if necessary... That way we don't have to censor discussion and, at the same time, respect the wishes of the authentic lineage to be left alone.

Edited June 4, 2014 by steve

[silent thunder]

FWIW, I voted for an unsearchable Mo Pai sub-forum.

I did too, but I'm operating on the assumption that we already have a Pit...