Gods created out of Fear

[manitou]

I found this paperback Little Blue Book in an antique shop: Voltaire and the French Enlightenment, from 1924. Really interesting reading. I'd love to share a paragraph that was written by Baron d'Holbach (1723-1789) who was a close associate of Diderot and, I'm guessing, Voltaire.

 

"If we go back to the beginning," says Holbach, "we shall find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that fancy, enthusiasm or deceit adorned or disfigured them; that weakness worships them; that credulity preserves them and that custom respects and tyranny supports them in order to make the blindness of men serve its own interests."

 

And then Denis Diderot says (1713-;1784):

 

"Belief in God, said Diderot, is bound up with submission to autocracy; the two rise and fall together; and men will never be free till the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." The earth will come into its own only when heaven is destroyed. Materialism may be an over-simplification of the world - all matter is probably instinct with life, and it is impossible to reduce the unity of consciousness to matter and motion; but materialism is a good weapon against the Church, and must be used till a better one is found. Meanwhile one must spread knowledge and encourage industry; industry will make for peace, and knowledge will make a new and natural morality."

 

 

 

A lot of comment on here. First of all, I love the statement that fear and ignorance created the gods. I've come to the conclusion that the One Thing, the one reason, man created gods to worship, is fear. Fear of.....failure to exist? Probably, but the fears of those Christians here in Ohio is a constant fear of going to hell. And sometimes I wonder if the fear doesn't stem from something even simpler: fear of fire? Isn't that what hell's supposed to be like? And the idea that "weakness worships them" I find very appealing. Weakness would have us remain as a small child to a strong father; hoping beyond hope that he will take care of things for us; a dual notion, for sure. It comes to mind that when somebody says 'Do you believe in God?', there's similarity in tenor to 'Do you believe in Santa?' I've always felt that way, even before my own ideas about this developed.

 

I like the proximity of materialism to the unity of consciousness, albeit a different mindset. To fully grasp the non-specific-ness of materialism - to know that all material in the world/universe is one and the same and it is only the vibratory collection of material already present is actually a very comforting thought to me - and a constant reminder that Mind is All, and matter responds to Mind. The unity of consciousness he speaks about is everybody's own individual journey and, as he says, 'it is impossible to reduce the unity of consciousness to matter and motion' - we're all on our own on this one, and certainly it is found in the inner journey; the Proof of Knowledge lies within.

 

I'm not sure at all about his last sentences about encouraging industry, which would make for peace. From where I sit, it seems like it's the opposite. Maybe someone else can cogitate on this one.....

[dawg]

FOUR BASIC CONCEPTS OF SPIRITUALITY

 

I have been to the spirit world more times than I can count… I have seen the highest heavens down to hell… I have even bumped into people (alive and dead), that I knew while in the spirit world… don’t worry about gods or religions… however good a person you are in this life, that’s how good a place you will go to in the spirit world when your body dies…

 

1)... Reincarnation… it is impossible to die, even if we wanted to…when our physical body dies, we wake up in the spirit world with our conscious mind, and our unconscious mind (which is also our spirit body)… our conditioning (karma) in our unconscious mind (which is also our spirit body) determines the length of time we spend in the spirit world, and where we spend it… and then it determines where, and in what situation we are reborn in the physical world, with a new physical body… we also carry past life conditioning (karma) with us in our unconscious mind (spirit body) when it “reincarnates”, which is why newborn babies are so different...

 

2)... The spirit World… The physical universe is a reality, it exists, it just is, it is the “truth”… no nation or man “owns” the physical universe… and science is just man’s feeble flawed attempt to describe the physical universe… the “physical universe” and “science” are two completely different things… in the same way, the spirit universe is a reality, it exists, it just is, it is the “truth”… every god you ever heard of exists… no god or religion “owns” or “controls” the spirit universe, and every god was born and will die… and religion is just man’s feeble flawed attempt to describe the spirit universe… the “spirit universe” and “religion” are two completely different things…

 

3)... What part of our mind reincarnates… we have two separate minds… There is a conscious mind that can think freely and create new ideas “outside the box” of our conditioning... Then there is the unconscious mind (sometimes called the subconscious mind), which is basically a super computer loaded with a database of conditioned behaviors (karma), some of which we carried over from a past life, most of which we acquired as small children, below the “age of reason”... because once we reach the age of reason... our unconscious mind (subconscious mind) will only accept conditioning that agrees with the conditioning it has already accepted… so although the unconscious mind is very powerful, it has the conditioned mentality of a small deluded child (arrested development)… it is only the conscious mind that can think outside of “the box of its conditioning” that grows up into an “adult”...

 

The conscious mind is able to process approximately 40 bits of information per second. But the unconscious mind (subconscious mind) is able to process approximately 40,000,000 bits of information per second... (these are conservative estimates from current brain research)...

 

The unconscious mind (subconscious mind) cannot move outside its fixed programs… it is trapped inside the “box of its conditioning”... it automatically reacts to situations with its previously conditioned behavior responses… and it works without the knowledge or control of the conscious mind. Studies from as far back as the 1970’s show that our brain begins to prepare for action just over a third of a second before we consciously decide to act... in other words, even when we “think” we are conscious, and in control of our actions, it is the conditioned responses in our unconscious mind that are actually making our decisions for us… essentially, we walk through life in a hypnotic trance, because we believe that the voice we hear in our conscious mind is us “thinking” and making decisions, when in fact it is the voice of our conditioned responses… it is the voice of all the people who conditioned (controlled) us, when we were young children, telling us how to act and react… what to believe and think… what is good, and what is bad... etc... The unconscious mind is controlling us 95% of the time!...Neuroscientists have shown that the conscious mind provides 5% or less of our cognitive (conscious) activity during the day – and 5% they say is for the more aware people…

 

The conscious mind cannot cope with the simultaneous "multiple images, feelings, and thoughts” of the unconscious mind, which is the reason why the unconscious mind is “subconscious” to the conscious mind. The conscious mind is simply not able to process and "be conscious" of the unconscious mind, because of its speed and complexity…

 

Telepathy is the universal language of the spirit world… whatever language we speak, other spirits will hear us in their language… it is “perfect communication”... another spirit will know exactly what we mean, and we will know exactly what they mean…

 

The unconscious mind (the spirit that we are) is “telepathic” and can hear the thoughts of other people, and communicate with the subconscious minds of other people and with spirits, without our conscious mind being aware of it… it is in this way that our awareness is connected to all other awareness in the universe, so that our awareness is part of the larger universal awareness… this is what creates what the psychologist Carl Jung called the “collective unconscious mind”, a larger human mind of which every individual is a part…

 

The voice in our conscious mind, is the voice of our karma… it is the voice of our conditioning… our karma is simply the conditioned reflex responses in our subconscious mind that we have been taught by other people to believe is “reality”… the voice of that conditioning which is our karma is always talking to our conscious mind, this is how our karma controls our life… the voice is always telling us to act in ways that lead us to produce results that “are our karma” (conditioning)”… for example, if it is our karma to be rich, the voice of our subconscious mind will lead us to riches, because it has been programmed with the knowledge of how to make money… if it is our karma to be poor, the voice will lead us to poverty, again because that is how it has been programmed… if it is our karma to commit suicide, the voice will convince us to kill ourselves… if it is our karma to develop a fatal disease, the conditioning will act on our subconscious mind (we are the author of our own health or disease) to produce the fatal disease…

 

We are a spirit with a body, not a body with a spirit… our conscious mind (and personality) is just a temporary superficial interface that allows our spirit to reincarnate in a physical body, and survive in the physical world… while our unconscious mind is the eternal spirit that we are… when a person reincarnates, their past personality and past conscious mind becomes a permanent part of their unconscious mind (which goes from life to life), and a new conscious mind and personality is created…

 

Delusion is what happens when a newborn baby is taught (conditioned) how to survive in the physical world (physical survival), and taught (conditioned) how to survive within the context of the culture that it is born into (personality, mundane social reality)… then when that baby reaches the “age of reason” it is trapped in a “box of reality”… and if that person tries to escape the delusion of that “box of reality”, they are considered “crazy”, and punished…

 

It is the unconscious mind that attains awakening (enlightenment), not the conscious mind… the unconscious mind attains awakening, when the “delusion” (mundane reality, conditioned reflex behavior, karma, etc...) that it is conditioned with, is permanently destroyed… then after its awakening, with all delusion gone, the unconscious mind becomes like a very gentle and brilliant simple minded giant with magic powers, that knows absolutely everything… and that is always ready to help you in any way that it can… it becomes completely reliable and trustworthy… it is your best friend, your soul mate… and with the destruction of “delusion” (“conditioned reality”), the voice of the unconscious mind that is always talking in the conscious mind, is gone… the two minds become one, giving you a sense of “wholeness” or “completeness”, “lacking nothing”... and there is no longer any conflict, so that all turbulence in your conscious mind ceases, and it is now “empty”, quiet, and serenely peaceful…

 

4)… The “alpha mind”… The mind that was once called the “subconscious mind”, is now properly called the “unconscious mind” by psychologists... but considering that abundant research has shown it to be the dominate mind, controlling the “conscious mind” at least 95 percent of the time… and that it is (our immortal soul) an immortal mind that survives the death of our body… and that it is our awareness (consciousness) in the spirit world… and that it is the mind that reincarnates in a new body… and that it is the mind that attains awakening (enlightenment)… calling it the “unconscious mind” is a gross misnomer… I call it the “alpha mind”, because it is the “dominate mind”, and because it is us, the immortal spirit that we are...

 

Dawg

[manitou]

Couldn't agree with you more, Dawg. What you've described is a perfect dynamic universal machine; a machine which includes man, includes space, includes all living and non-living things; things seen and unseen. and it's entirely IMPERSONAL.

 

The concept of a 'God' would relegate the karmic and reincarnative processes to be a result of judgment; punishment or reward. Whereas with the Impersonal model, there is no punishment nor reward in play. It merely Is, as you say, which depends entirely on the amount that we've learned as to where we're placed on the next go-round. More of a ladder thing, looking at it vertically.

 

I do find it interesting that mankind has had the need to mentally picture and invent the Thing that protects him from the things he fears most. If we're lucky enough, whether from meditation, tantric sex, or even on a drug adventure, to actually experience the electrical current of life first-hand, then we are fortunate enough to have Actual Inner Proof to ourselves that we are part of something vast. it is no longer theoretical, we need not guess at it.
We need not worry that we are 'separate from it' (as a God, whom people would implore to intervene on their behalf). Rather, we are It; at least this phase of It. We seem to be the reflective, self-conscious aspect of this whole enchilada, capable of magnificent things that other forms of life are not.

[Brian]

I think the concept of "god(s)" -- and hence their "creation" as a construct within the lexicon and ken of the population -- stems primarily from sincere attempts by those who have pierced the veil to explain their awakened understanding of "that which is" to those who cannot comprehend it unless they too begin to awaken.

 

Then human nature kicks in and everything starts to get distorted. Blessed are the cheese-makers...

[Marblehead]

I was going to compliment you on your very positivist views but then I read the last paragraph. Back here in reality all is well.

[silent thunder]

I contend that the gods are reflections of us, that we can experience upon piercing the veil, then return and try to wrap word/mind concepts around that which is beyond language to share the concepts and the distortions begin...

 

Once the uninitiated get a hold of these probably well intentioned attempts to share a staggeringly paradigm opening experience, then the true nastiness we experience takes place and again those with the psychotic need for power take over the key positions and we end up with the daily news...

 

on that note....

 

Give me your shoe!

[C T]

Interesting topic.

 

I think i disagree somewhat with Diderot, where he mentioned freedom comes from the rectifications of external humanistic structures, for eg, to do away with kings and priests, promoting knowledge and industry as the way to peace and morality. In my view, Peace is inner grace, while morality is simply the outward, visible sign of one's inner world. It is difficult to imagine how knowledge and industry can be the motivating factors which can lead man to grace.

 

Alan Watts, whose exhortations i am tending to agree with, much more than Diderot as a matter of course , made this observation some while back:

 

"Life is the current into which man is thrown, and though he struggles against it, it carries him along despite all his efforts, with the result that his efforts achieve nothing but his own unhappiness. Should he then just turn about and drift? But nature gave him the faculties of reason and conscious individuality, and if he is to drift, he might as well have been without them. It is more likely that he has them to give expression to immeasurably greater possibilities of nature than the animal can express by instinct.

 

Even so, man does not like to be put down to the place of an instrument, however grand that instrument may be, for an instrument is an instrument, and an organ does what it is made to do as subserviently and blindly as a whistle. But this is not the only consideration. It may be that man has a wrong idea of what his self is. In the words of the Hindu sage Patanjali, "Ignorance is the identification of the Seer with the instruments of seeing." Certainly man as instrument is an obedient tool whether he likes it or not, but it may be that there is something in man which is more than the instrument, more than his reason and individuality which are part of that instrument and which he mistakenly believes to be his true self. And while as an instrument he is bound, it is the same with which he sets himself free, and his problem is to become aware of it. Finding it, he will understand that in fleeing from death, fear and sorrow he is making himself a slave, for he will realize the mysterious truth that in fact he is free both to live and to die, to love and to fear, to rejoice and to be sad, and that in none of these things is there any shame. But man rejects his freedom to be natural, imagining that death, fear and sorrow are the causes of his unhappiness. The real cause is that he does not let himself be free to accept them, for he does not understand that he who is free to love is not really free unless he is also free to fear, and this is the real freedom of happiness."

Edited June 4, 2014 by C T

[manitou]

I think the concept of "god(s)" -- and hence their "creation" as a construct within the lexicon and ken of the population -- stems primarily from sincere attempts by those who have pierced the veil to explain their awakened understanding of "that which is" to those who cannot comprehend it unless they too begin to awaken.

 

Then human nature kicks in and everything starts to get distorted. Blessed are the cheese-makers...

 

I'd guess that the concept of gods started way back in prehistoric times when man first saw scary stuff; or perhaps when they saw fire for the first time and marveled. Something to protect them from the elements; one action or ceremony done (which appeared to "work" if the outcome was good) would have been repeated to the point of superstition. I would think this would come first; because the awakened Ones would have transcended exactly that: the religiosity.

 

I think the awakening process is the exact process where we drop the religiosity in any form. No? It's like being "enlightened".

 

Enlightened of what?

Edited June 4, 2014 by manitou

[Brian]

 

I'd guess that the concept of gods started way back in prehistoric times when man first saw scary stuff; or perhaps when they saw fire for the first time and marveled. Something to protect them from the elements; one action or ceremony done (which appeared to "work" if the outcome was good) would have been repeated to the point of superstition. I would think this would come first; because the awakened Ones would have transcended exactly that: the religiosity.

 

I think the awakening process is the exact process where we drop the religiosity in any form. No?

I suspect the idea of "something/one out there" (both the Good and the Evil) sprang not purely from fear of reality but from an insight into the inexplicable "something more." I think the religiosity and dogma quickly and inevitably gets layered on in an attempt to complete and codify the inexplicable (EDIT: AND, on the other side of the human-nature coin, as a result of self-appointed leaders seeking to control & manipulate in order to gain power).

 

The awakening process is one of the processes by which the religiosity can be dissolved but rationalization also dissolves it in a decidedly anti-awakening fashion.

 

I think your point is well taken, though, and is spotlighted by the tendency of the devout to eventually transcend their own religiosity (typically without completely forsaking the teachings from whence the dogma originated but instead recognizing those teachings as akin to blind men describing an elephant). I think this is a reflection of many paths potentially resulting in a similar veil-piercing.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Brian

[soaring crane]

I think only 10 percent of our DNA is human. The other 90 percent is microbial, and those creatures have been ruling planet earth for billions of years. I think God ideas come from the subconscious mind getting faint impulses from the omniscient and omnipotent intelligence of the vast and vibrant microbial ocean.

 

Sensations like reincarnation and can be easily explained with this model, too.

[Gerard]

FOUR BASIC CONCEPTS OF SPIRITUALITY

 

I have been to the spirit world more times than I can count…

 

...and all created by the mind. Ultimately you need to bypass them all and return to the Source, which will happens when your time comes. All beings will return to the point of origin after journeying (countless of life experiences will be experienced) in the eternal flow of consciousness.

 

It's an interesting but painful game.

[Brian]

 

...and all created by the mind. Ultimately you need to bypass them all and return to the Source, which will happens when your time comes. All beings will return to the point of origin after journeying (countless of life experiences will be experienced) in the eternal flow of consciousness.

 

It's an interesting but painful game.

Agreed, except I'm enjoying the adventure rather than finding it painful or something I seek to escape.

[3bob]

We are all visitors on this earth which has the soul of a beautiful and true goddess, to imagine that the human order of beings is somehow more "real" than such - namely as the orders of god or angel type beings - is a great blindness... for all orders of beings have their place and purpose in the created or manifest realms. (and what is invisible to a flesh and blood eye still counts as being manifest in the light worlds)

[Bearded Dragon]

I think that those who REALLY surrender to their god make some decent progress. I don't see that it could get you all the way, but nevertheless further than I used to suspect. Long-term within one life it seems to be a trap due to diminishing returns. Long-term over many incarnations I can't reasonably say.

[manitou]

We are all visitors on this earth which has the soul of a beautiful and true goddess, to imagine that the human order of beings is somehow more "real" than such - namely as the orders of god or angel type beings - is a great blindness... for all orders of beings have their place and purpose in the created or manifest realms. (and what is invisible to a flesh and blood eye still counts as being manifest in the light worlds)

 

 

3bob - are there really angel type beings, although unseen? I'm really asking, do you really think so? Are they metaphoric, or something you have had contact with in meditation?

[Brian]

 

 

3bob - are there really angel type beings, although unseen? I'm really asking, do you really think so? Are they metaphoric, or something you have had contact with in meditation?

I'm not 3bob but I can honestly say that they are not metaphorical.

[manitou]

Interesting topic.

 

I think i disagree somewhat with Diderot, where he mentioned freedom comes from the rectifications of external humanistic structures, for eg, to do away with kings and priests, promoting knowledge and industry as the way to peace and morality.

 

Maybe he was thinking along Daoist lines, wherein 'when rules are necessary, the Dao is lost' (referring to man's seeming need for administrative structure via kings and princes) Industry promoting peace and morality? This was written before NAFTA.

 

 

 

In my view, Peace is inner grace, while morality is simply the outward, visible sign of one's inner world. It is difficult to imagine how knowledge and industry can be the motivating factors which can lead man to grace.

 

 

Beautifully said! This is why the Dao is lost when enforced morality is needed; it's just as you say - morality is a reflection of one's inner world. The 'De' of the DaoDeJing.

 

Alan Watts, whose exhortations i am tending to agree with, much more than Diderot as a matter of course , made this observation some while back:

 

"Life is the current into which man is thrown, and though he struggles against it, it carries him along despite all his efforts, with the result that his efforts achieve nothing but his own unhappiness. Should he then just turn about and drift? But nature gave him the faculties of reason and conscious individuality, and if he is to drift, he might as well have been without them. It is more likely that he has them to give expression to immeasurably greater possibilities of nature than the animal can express by instinct.

 

He struggles against the current until he learns not to struggle against it any more. And how much valuable are our faculties of reason and conscious individuality become when we use them within the drift, IMO. If one surrenders to the drift, then one need not use up all their energy in fighting against it. The energy is left over for Seeing the order within the drift, and to see things coming in the distance within the drift. Staying within wu-wei keeps us in the drift. I think that we can expand 'the drift' to include cities, countries, the world.

 

 

Even so, man does not like to be put down to the place of an instrument, however grand that instrument may be, for an instrument is an instrument, and an organ does what it is made to do as subserviently and blindly as a whistle. But this is not the only consideration. It may be that man has a wrong idea of what his self is. In the words of the Hindu sage Patanjali, "Ignorance is the identification of the Seer with the instruments of seeing." Certainly man as instrument is an obedient tool whether he likes it or not, but it may be that there is something in man which is more than the instrument, more than his reason and individuality which are part of that instrument and which he mistakenly believes to be his true self. And while as an instrument he is bound, it is the same with which he sets himself free, and his problem is to become aware of it. Finding it, he will understand that in fleeing from death, fear and sorrow he is making himself a slave, for he will realize the mysterious truth that in fact he is free both to live and to die, to love and to fear, to rejoice and to be sad, and that in none of these things is there any shame. But man rejects his freedom to be natural, imagining that death, fear and sorrow are the causes of his unhappiness. The real cause is that he does not let himself be free to accept them, for he does not understand that he who is free to love is not really free unless he is also free to fear, and this is the real freedom of happiness."

 

 

What a wonderful paragraph. Isn't it odd how on one hand we fall into believing that we are our body, as it says above, and this is error-thinking. and yet if we 'become the task' (merge with it) this is correct thinking.

[manitou]

I'm not 3bob but I can honestly say that they are not metaphorical.

 

I'm delighted to hear that, can you explain your experience? Please? Pretty please?

[manitou]

I think that those who REALLY surrender to their god make some decent progress. I don't see that it could get you all the way, but nevertheless further than I used to suspect. Long-term within one life it seems to be a trap due to diminishing returns. Long-term over many incarnations I can't reasonably say.

 

 

I agree. I think the surrender process it the important thing here - not the face of the god. In full surrender ego has to be set aside. Not an easy trick, and it takes much work. Then the trick is to outgrow the face of the god, to my understanding and experience.

 

There's a saying in AA - EGO = Edging God Out. Although this still presupposes a separate god, the basic idea is good. No vision through the ego.

[Marblehead]

Oh No! We are surrendering again. How are we ever going to win if we keep surrendering?

[Stosh]

I have forgotten who suggested this , it may have been Campbell, or Jung, but the idea runs along the lines that gods fulfill a pardigm which is the natural exension of the situation of childhood.

I think all that weakness and fear stuff is a very biased, insulting, and unfair characterization of those who believe in gods.

( my own attitudes not withstanding in this case).

That people have a desire to know and understand what there is no reliable data for, fuels speculation , and investigation.

That there are natural desires for social order , moral justification, and a sense of relatedness to the world which can be satisfied by various Faiths , is no sin, though ironically Holboch seems to believe in sin and wickedness , good versus evil .

. since he draws faith in such a pure negative light,,, he must not understand that the world is not so black and white, when examining it through a non-righteous lens.

( as this excerpt seems to indicate)

Edited June 5, 2014 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

I think all that weakness and fear stuff is a very biased, insulting, and unfair characterization of those who believe in gods.

( my own attitudes not withstanding in this case).

I agree and I am a stone cold Atheist.

[Brian]

 

I'm delighted to hear that, can you explain your experience? Please? Pretty please?

Well...

 

 

The first "in your face" experience I recall clearly (I say this because I have some odd recollections from my childhood which I haven't drawn into focus) involved a camping trip.

 

I was 19 or so and several friends & I went camping in the Linville Gorge:

 

 

 

We were actually (and intentionally) at the base of Brown Mountain, which is famous for its mysterious "lights." <http://brownmountainlights.com/>

 

Took us a couple of hours to hike in and we had brought plenty of supplies. In addition to normal camping stuff -- tents, sleeping bags, food, water, beer & toilet paper -- we had some fresh local 'shine, plenty of smoking materials and a big ol' bag full of fresh local 'shrooms.

 

I learned that night that the Brown Mountain Ridge truly had been the site of an ancient battle (one of the many legends & theories surrounding the place), and some day, when I have better wrapped my head around the nonlinearity of the Light, I will return to help free those still trapped there.

 

Being the empirical and /materialistic/reductionistic young physics student that I was at the time, I chalked the whole thing up to just trippin'. As did my empirical and materialistic/reductionistic young physics student co-adventurers, whose stories the next morning were disturbingly similar to my own...

 

My next personal experience came about a year or so later, sans power plants. Late at night on a very twisty and foggy mountain road, a girl in a flowered sundress stood on the double-yellow lines and warned me to slow down, moving backwards towards the hairpin and then fading into the gray near-distance. The next weekend, I found the abandoned wreckage of two old cars in the ravine below that curve -- not sure which one had been hers.

 

Since then, I have had a number of experiences with "ghosts" and "haunted houses."

 

Fast-forward several decades, and I have come to understand, through the stillness-movement lineage, that there are MANY non-physical Beings of Light about, and that they are intrigued by those who work with energy.

 

Sorry this is all a bit vague and not terribly convincing -- in truth, it isn't intended to convince anyone of anything!

Edited June 5, 2014 by Brian

[manitou]

I like that very much, Brian. I understand that you have no need to convince anybody, as I have no need to convince anybody. But the integrity of your body of posts on this forum speak for themselves - and, personally, I trust anything you have to say. Thanks! then once something like that happens, you're changed for life it seems.

[manitou]

I think all that weakness and fear stuff is a very biased, insulting, and unfair characterization of those who believe in gods.

( my own attitudes not withstanding in this case).

 

 

Stosh, the last thing I want to do is insult anyone. I was thinking a discussion of the cause of the god-thought to manifest within mankind might be a nice topic. Please forgive me if i insulted you.