manitou

Gods created out of Fear

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Stosh, the last thing I want to do is insult anyone. I was thinking a discussion of the cause of the god-thought to manifest within mankind might be a nice topic. Please forgive me if i insulted you.

Thats quite alright Manitou, Im just speaking up for a possible minority view, like Mh I am as atheist as one gets , but I know folks who arent and I dont consider them to be like Holboch depicts... posting the view just throws it out there for examination , no blood no foul . Im no censor nor thin skinned.

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Well...

 

 

The first "in your face" experience I recall clearly (I say this because I have some odd recollections from my childhood which I haven't drawn into focus) involved a camping trip.

 

I was 19 or so and several friends & I went camping in the Linville Gorge:

 

downriver.jpg

 

 

We were actually (and intentionally) at the base of Brown Mountain, which is famous for its mysterious "lights." <http://brownmountainlights.com/>

 

Took us a couple of hours to hike in and we had brought plenty of supplies. In addition to normal camping stuff -- tents, sleeping bags, food, water, beer & toilet paper :) -- we had some fresh local 'shine, plenty of smoking materials and a big ol' bag full of fresh local 'shrooms.

 

I learned that night that the Brown Mountain Ridge truly had been the site of an ancient battle (one of the many legends & theories surrounding the place), and some day, when I have better wrapped my head around the nonlinearity of the Light, I will return to help free those still trapped there.

 

Being the empirical and /materialistic/reductionistic young physics student that I was at the time, I chalked the whole thing up to just trippin'. As did my empirical and materialistic/reductionistic young physics student co-adventurers, whose stories the next morning were disturbingly similar to my own...

 

My next personal experience came about a year or so later, sans power plants. Late at night on a very twisty and foggy mountain road, a girl in a flowered sundress stood on the double-yellow lines and warned me to slow down, moving backwards towards the hairpin and then fading into the gray near-distance. The next weekend, I found the abandoned wreckage of two old cars in the ravine below that curve -- not sure which one had been hers.

 

Since then, I have had a number of experiences with "ghosts" and "haunted houses."

 

Fast-forward several decades, and I have come to understand, through the stillness-movement lineage, that there are MANY non-physical Beings of Light about, and that they are intrigued by those who work with energy.

 

Sorry this is all a bit vague and not terribly convincing -- in truth, it isn't intended to convince anyone of anything! :)

Reminds me a bit of one time when a traffic cop was trying to pull me over (in that lazy way of standing at the roadside pointing).. I thought he was waving me to slow up, I waved back and kept going,,

but I saw him in the rearview doing a surprised double take but he didnt bother to chase it down :)

Edited by Stosh

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I infiltrate a yoga ashram every now and then, not because I do yoga, but because the people are so damn interesting. Many Hindu's who have good relations with there Gods. See them as real beings who party down, grant wisdom and even wishes.

 

Its a paradigm different from what I'm used to. I'm not skeptical as much as putting there beliefs in an 'I don't know' file. Even if real, I don't think I'd seek that path, but I do hope.. the world is more multi-dimensional then we suppose. Other worlds criss cross ours and synchronicities are more then just coincidence.

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I like that very much, Brian. I understand that you have no need to convince anybody, as I have no need to convince anybody. But the integrity of your body of posts on this forum speak for themselves - and, personally, I trust anything you have to say. Thanks! then once something like that happens, you're changed for life it seems.

Thank you, Manitou. I am humbled by your remarks.

 

Changed in small ways by an accumulation of experiences, mostly, but sometimes in dramatic ways by jarring experiences. Sometimes we are grasped by the lapels and vigorously shaken in order to get our attention, I think. Seems life is like that, ya know?

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FOUR BASIC CONCEPTS OF SPIRITUALITY

 

I have been to the spirit world more times than I can count I have seen the highest heavens down to hell I have even bumped into people (alive and dead), that I knew while in the spirit world dont worry about gods or religions however good a person you are in this life, thats how good a place you will go to in the spirit world when your body dies

 

1)... Reincarnation it is impossible to die, even if we wanted towhen our physical body dies, we wake up in the spirit world with our conscious mind, and our unconscious mind (which is also our spirit body) our conditioning (karma) in our unconscious mind (which is also our spirit body) determines the length of time we spend in the spirit world, and where we spend it and then it determines where, and in what situation we are reborn in the physical world, with a new physical body we also carry past life conditioning (karma) with us in our unconscious mind (spirit body) when it reincarnates, which is why newborn babies are so different...

 

2)... The spirit World The physical universe is a reality, it exists, it just is, it is the truth no nation or man owns the physical universe and science is just mans feeble flawed attempt to describe the physical universe the physical universe and science are two completely different things in the same way, the spirit universe is a reality, it exists, it just is, it is the truth every god you ever heard of exists no god or religion owns or controls the spirit universe, and every god was born and will die and religion is just mans feeble flawed attempt to describe the spirit universe the spirit universe and religion are two completely different things

 

3)... What part of our mind reincarnates we have two separate minds There is a conscious mind that can think freely and create new ideas outside the box of our conditioning... Then there is the unconscious mind (sometimes called the subconscious mind), which is basically a super computer loaded with a database of conditioned behaviors (karma), some of which we carried over from a past life, most of which we acquired as small children, below the age of reason... because once we reach the age of reason... our unconscious mind (subconscious mind) will only accept conditioning that agrees with the conditioning it has already accepted so although the unconscious mind is very powerful, it has the conditioned mentality of a small deluded child (arrested development) it is only the conscious mind that can think outside of the box of its conditioning that grows up into an adult...

 

The conscious mind is able to process approximately 40 bits of information per second. But the unconscious mind (subconscious mind) is able to process approximately 40,000,000 bits of information per second... (these are conservative estimates from current brain research)...

 

The unconscious mind (subconscious mind) cannot move outside its fixed programs it is trapped inside the box of its conditioning... it automatically reacts to situations with its previously conditioned behavior responses and it works without the knowledge or control of the conscious mind. Studies from as far back as the 1970s show that our brain begins to prepare for action just over a third of a second before we consciously decide to act... in other words, even when we think we are conscious, and in control of our actions, it is the conditioned responses in our unconscious mind that are actually making our decisions for us essentially, we walk through life in a hypnotic trance, because we believe that the voice we hear in our conscious mind is us thinking and making decisions, when in fact it is the voice of our conditioned responses it is the voice of all the people who conditioned (controlled) us, when we were young children, telling us how to act and react what to believe and think what is good, and what is bad... etc... The unconscious mind is controlling us 95% of the time!...Neuroscientists have shown that the conscious mind provides 5% or less of our cognitive (conscious) activity during the day and 5% they say is for the more aware people

 

The conscious mind cannot cope with the simultaneous "multiple images, feelings, and thoughts of the unconscious mind, which is the reason why the unconscious mind is subconscious to the conscious mind. The conscious mind is simply not able to process and "be conscious" of the unconscious mind, because of its speed and complexity

 

Telepathy is the universal language of the spirit world whatever language we speak, other spirits will hear us in their language it is perfect communication... another spirit will know exactly what we mean, and we will know exactly what they mean

 

The unconscious mind (the spirit that we are) is telepathic and can hear the thoughts of other people, and communicate with the subconscious minds of other people and with spirits, without our conscious mind being aware of it it is in this way that our awareness is connected to all other awareness in the universe, so that our awareness is part of the larger universal awareness this is what creates what the psychologist Carl Jung called the collective unconscious mind, a larger human mind of which every individual is a part

 

The voice in our conscious mind, is the voice of our karma it is the voice of our conditioning our karma is simply the conditioned reflex responses in our subconscious mind that we have been taught by other people to believe is reality the voice of that conditioning which is our karma is always talking to our conscious mind, this is how our karma controls our life the voice is always telling us to act in ways that lead us to produce results that are our karma (conditioning) for example, if it is our karma to be rich, the voice of our subconscious mind will lead us to riches, because it has been programmed with the knowledge of how to make money if it is our karma to be poor, the voice will lead us to poverty, again because that is how it has been programmed if it is our karma to commit suicide, the voice will convince us to kill ourselves if it is our karma to develop a fatal disease, the conditioning will act on our subconscious mind (we are the author of our own health or disease) to produce the fatal disease

 

We are a spirit with a body, not a body with a spirit our conscious mind (and personality) is just a temporary superficial interface that allows our spirit to reincarnate in a physical body, and survive in the physical world while our unconscious mind is the eternal spirit that we are when a person reincarnates, their past personality and past conscious mind becomes a permanent part of their unconscious mind (which goes from life to life), and a new conscious mind and personality is created

 

Delusion is what happens when a newborn baby is taught (conditioned) how to survive in the physical world (physical survival), and taught (conditioned) how to survive within the context of the culture that it is born into (personality, mundane social reality) then when that baby reaches the age of reason it is trapped in a box of reality and if that person tries to escape the delusion of that box of reality, they are considered crazy, and punished

 

It is the unconscious mind that attains awakening (enlightenment), not the conscious mind the unconscious mind attains awakening, when the delusion (mundane reality, conditioned reflex behavior, karma, etc...) that it is conditioned with, is permanently destroyed then after its awakening, with all delusion gone, the unconscious mind becomes like a very gentle and brilliant simple minded giant with magic powers, that knows absolutely everything and that is always ready to help you in any way that it can it becomes completely reliable and trustworthy it is your best friend, your soul mate and with the destruction of delusion (conditioned reality), the voice of the unconscious mind that is always talking in the conscious mind, is gone the two minds become one, giving you a sense of wholeness or completeness, lacking nothing... and there is no longer any conflict, so that all turbulence in your conscious mind ceases, and it is now empty, quiet, and serenely peaceful

 

4) The alpha mind The mind that was once called the subconscious mind, is now properly called the unconscious mind by psychologists... but considering that abundant research has shown it to be the dominate mind, controlling the conscious mind at least 95 percent of the time and that it is (our immortal soul) an immortal mind that survives the death of our body and that it is our awareness (consciousness) in the spirit world and that it is the mind that reincarnates in a new body and that it is the mind that attains awakening (enlightenment) calling it the unconscious mind is a gross misnomer I call it the alpha mind, because it is the dominate mind, and because it is us, the immortal spirit that we are...

 

Dawg

[[Telepathy is the universal language of the spirit world whatever language we speak, other spirits will hear us in their language it is perfect communication... another spirit will know exactly what we mean, and we will know exactly what they mean]]

 

Telepathy here in human bodies is not actually like this - you hear the person exactly as they think - exactly as they would speak - just without the air waves.

 

It is not like a "universal translator".

 

I like the concept you have of Telepathy and in practice within the context of what you are saying here it is a credible usage - the type of communication you are expressing is often at a higher level though - communication in geometric forms is faster than telepathic communication - this type of communication has exact clarity :)

Edited by Spotless

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3bob - are there really angel type beings, although unseen? I'm really asking, do you really think so? Are they metaphoric, or something you have had contact with in meditation?

 

Hello Manitou, Well in my earlier post I tried to be clear by not using words of speculation like, "I think" or "perhaps". So yes in my limited experiences there are all sorts of orders of Beings as was implied. A body woven out of light is just of a finer form compared to a body that is then woven out of flesh; the Earth is also great weaving of light and may be seen as such; and her goddess soul and angel helpers are intimate with the strands of that lignt while they sing a song of sublime power and beauty that runs so deep and true! May we listen and lend a hand where we can.

 

She has been hurt in this age but she will not be broken or undone, never...

Edited by 3bob
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"Night poured over the desert. It came suddenly, in purple. In the clear air, the stars drilled down out of the sky, reminding any thoughtful watcher that it is in the deserts and high places that religions are generated. When men see nothing but bottomless infinity over their heads they have always had a driving and desperate urge to find someone to put in the way.

 

 

― Terry Pratchett, Jingo.

Edited by GrandmasterP
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I like the concept you have of Telepathy and in practice within the context of what you are saying here it is a credible usage - the type of communication you are expressing is often at a higher level though - communication in geometric forms is faster than telepathic communication - this type of communication has exact clarity :)

 

 

Odd that you say the thing about communication in geometric form. I've been given the ability the ability to "See" within dynamics, and the seeing is always done in geometric form - triangles. It's like one point of a dynamic is connected at one geometric point of the triangle, another point is within myself, and another point is in the manifestations of the person or situation being viewed. it is definitely triangular and geometric.

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Geometry is where it's at for me...

when I think in terms of source energy, which is as close as I can come to saying God, I see stuff like this...

post-103196-0-55358700-1402072977_thumb.jpgpost-103196-0-03450200-1402073028_thumb.jpg

I see images along this theme oscillating and spiraling inward and outward whenever I close my eyes for any extended period of time...

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...

 

The conscious mind is able to process approximately 40 bits of information per second. But the unconscious mind (subconscious mind) is able to process approximately 40,000,000 bits of information per second... (these are conservative estimates from current brain research)...

 

 

Dawg

Thank you so much for relaying your experiences.

I just have to point out, though,... The human eye has on average 65 million photoreceptors per eye. If the conscious mind can only process 40 bits per second, how is that we can see whole scenes which consist of millions of bits in one glance?

 

Also, Evelyn Wood's reading dynamics teaches a person to read much more than 40 characters per second...

 

Evelyn Nielsen Wood (January 8, 1909 August 26, 1995) was an American educator and businessperson, widely known for coining the phrase speed reading and for creating a system to increase a reader's speed (over the average reading rate of 250 to 300 words a minute) by a factor of two to five times, while increasing retention.[1]

 

 

By my calculations, that would mean that the conscious mind can process up to 1500 words per minute, or (if the average word is 7 characters long) 175 characters per second. Edited by Tibetan_Ice

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Thats quite alright Manitou, Im just speaking up for a possible minority view, like Mh I am as atheist as one gets , but I know folks who arent and I dont consider them to be like Holboch depicts... posting the view just throws it out there for examination , no blood no foul . Im no censor nor thin skinned.

 

 

The concept of atheism is interesting. I consider myself one as well, but only in the sense that there could be something "separate from us" that is directing all the traffic. As a kid, most of us have early imprints of something grand "out there", an entity separate from ourselves that needs worship, for some reason.

 

When we self-realize, we realize that we're not separate from it; and to worship something exterior is to miss the point. it's to place the responsibility for our lives in the lap of something out of our control. But when we realize that we are the Manifester, suddenly it places the responsibility for things that happen to us squarely on our own shoulders.

 

I take no issue whatsoever with folks who worship an external god. I was there myself for a long time. I think the point is to transcend the individual 'face' of the god with whom we grew up (whether in the States, in India, or China, etc) and dwell in the place of the merger. Obviously, there is incredible Order in nature, of which we are a magnificent part; perhaps the cutting edge.

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The higher deities / beings were not created out of fear.

 

The dogmas were created out of a variety of machinations coping with overflowing energies, teachings from the exceptional among them and a station in awareness of a lower vibration.

Edited by Spotless
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http://www.amazon.co.uk/Living-Wild-God-Non-believers-Everything/dp/1847084095/ref=pd_ybh_6

 

Barbara Ehreneich's an old school atheist of sorts but her new book 'Living with a Wild God' could have been written by an old school Taoist.

Part of the review here....

"The other focus of interest is the possible meaning of her "uncanny" experiences, one of which, at Lone Pine, California, in 1959, was particularly intense and upsetting. These experiences she sees as almost beyond language, and even as she tries to put them into words, she's always warning against both her own wording and the wording that religious believers and psychologists might be tempted to use about them. Her final two chapters are meditations on these experiences, and they invite the reader to consider the possibility of a "life" in the universe that is beyond categorization and that she is pretty sure the categories of monotheistic religions just don't "get." She is talking here not of what she believes -- "I believe nothing," she says -- but of what might possibly be believable. The actual experiences of religious mystics like Meister Eckhart, the ongoing examinations of consciousness and possible intentionality in animals, and the parasitic and symbiotic relationships of micro-organisms with hosts are all adduced, not to "explain" what happened to the young Barbara but to remind us that there are forms of life, relationship, and consciousness that we would do well to keep an open mind about. I found the book compelling in its storytelling and intriguing in its implications -- I couldn't put it down."

Edited by GrandmasterP
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Caveat on that review albeit I have the book on order.

It's the first and, so far; only review on Amazon UK and awards five stars.

Call me Sally Cynical - and I'm not implying this review is such - but IMO the first four five star reviews of books on Amazon tend to be penned by ( and in no particular order)...

1: The Author.

2: The Author's Literary Agent.

3: The Author's old mum of significant other.

4: The Author's cat ( using a pseudonym and/or ghost writer).

 

:)

Edited by GrandmasterP

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TTC. 51.

 

"TAO gives them life,
Virtue nurses them,
Matter shapes them,
Environment perfects them.
Therefore all things without exception worship Tao and
do homage to Virtue.
They have not been commanded to worship Tao and do
homage to Virtue,
But they always do so spontaneously.

It is Tao that gives them life:
It is Virtue that nurses them, grows them, fosters them,
shelters them, comforts them, nourishes them, and
covers them under her wings.
To give life but to claim nothing,
To do your work but to set no store by it,
To be a leader, not a butcher,
This is called hidden Virtue".

Edited by 3bob

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Thank you so much for relaying your experiences.

I just have to point out, though,... The human eye has on average 65 million photoreceptors per eye. If the conscious mind can only process 40 bits per second, how is that we can see whole scenes which consist of millions of bits in one glance?

 

Also, Evelyn Wood's reading dynamics teaches a person to read much more than 40 characters per second...

 

By my calculations, that would mean that the conscious mind can process up to 1500 words per minute, or (if the average word is 7 characters long) 175 characters per second.

Yeah, those numbers were rather nonsensical, I thought.

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But when we realize that we are the Manifester, suddenly it places the responsibility for things that happen to us squarely on our own shoulders.

This is important enough to repeat. (Over and over again if necessary.)

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They have not been commanded to worship Tao and do

homage to Virtue,

But they always do so spontaneously.

But only after personifying Tao, and this is wrong, in my understanding.

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But only after personifying Tao, and this is wrong, in my understanding.

 

I believe one of the points of TTC 51 was not in intellectualizing and or conceptualizing personal or impersonal (per-se) in the first place, since attachment to either would miss the mark of direct experience that can only be now...

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are there really angel type beings, although unseen? I'm really asking, do you really think so? Are they metaphoric, or something you have had contact with in meditation?

 

All of this that i describe below, is impossible to describe... unless you see it yourself, you can not imagine how beautiful it all is, and how magic... the realms were created by the thoughts of the people who have lived there over time... everything is created by thoughts, and you communicate by telepathy (your thoughts)... except for the formless realms, all of the heavens are as solid as the physical realm

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have seen snow covered mountains, sailing ships on a sparkling sea, with men working the rigging while singing and shouting back and forth... i have driven around in a car that looked like a Mercedes through what looked like a leafy upscale suburb of Los Angeles... I have walked around in buildings that changed colors and shapes like a kaleidoscope as you moved through them... i have seen medieval villages, beautiful gardens, etc, etc, etc...

 

There is no dust or dirt so nothing gets dirty, your house (mansion) and clothes are always clean... if you want something, your thoughts create it for you... if you want to change something, your thoughts will change it... if you want to go someplace, you can walk, or you can fly, or you can think where you want to go and instantly be there...

 

Angels are just people (male and female) in the heavenly realms, they are called "Devas", some people call the males "devitas"... they are beautiful and handsome... in the physical realm men judge the beauty of a woman on a scale of one to ten... on a scale of one to ten, a deva is a five hundred... flawless physical beauty and movements, whose voice and laughter melts your heart... these are the angels...

 

the lowest heavenly realm is on earth, and the inhabitants are called "earth devas"... they are the "nymphs" and "satyrs" of greek mythology... they are beautiful, but very sensual and wild... they shun humans and human habitation

 

Then there is a bunch of lower heavenly realms that are "sensual realms'

 

Then above that there are a bunch of heavenly realms that are "mental realms"

 

Then above that the heavens branch out into all kinds of "special heavens"... some where you have a body and some where you are pure mind without a body (formless realms)... in my last life before I reincarnated, I lived with my wife in this area in a realm where we lived in castles built in the the clouds, and I have visited her in my present life... then there is a realm for the gods of creation and destruction, who are always quarreling with one another... and there are five realms called the pure abodes, for people who are almost enlightened to reach enlightenment...

 

And at the top are enlightened people

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

If you want to speak to angels, they can hear you...

and if you are sincere, you may hear them...

 

NOTE 1… You have spirit guides that want to help and protect you, but they can’t help or protect you unless you ask them to help you and protect you, because they would be interfering… these are your "guardian angels... before you reincarnated, you made a deal with them and set a goal for this life... they know more about you than you know about yourself... they can come to you in a split second if you call them... talk to them as friends and allies, pour out your heart to them and ask them to help you, and tell them “how” if you can... (they can lead things to you, and you to things, without you even realizing that they are involved)… and don’t forget to thank them for what they have done and will do… if you are sincere they will talk to you telepathically... you will hear their voice in your mind...

 

NOTE 2… Anyone dear to you who has died (parents, siblings, children, grandparents, spouses, friends) can hear you if you talk to them, most of them can come to you in an instant… call them to come… tell them that you love them and miss them, and pour out your heart to them… they are not “dead” (it is impossible to die, even if you wanted to), they are just someplace else…

 

NOTE 3… Learn to talk to your subconscious mind, ask it to help you… remember that it is more conscious than your conscious mind… and if you let it, it will love you unconditionally, just the way you are… but be aware that it does not hear "negative words (no, not, never, don't, can't, etc ...)... only tell it what you want, not what you don't want ... if you tell it that you don't want to break your leg... it will hear that you want to break your leg, and try to help you break your leg... tell it your dreams and aspirations… it can help you in ways that you cannot even imagine… it has complete control of your body…24 hours a day, it keeps your heart beating, your lungs breathing, etc, etc… your subconscious mind is always aware, it never sleeps, it is always taking care of you, every second of your life… and it is always listening to the thoughts in your conscious mind, and those thoughts create your fate, as well as your health or disease…

NOTE 4... WARNING... beware any spirit that is talkative and super friendly... your spirit guides will be staid and very proper, and give short concise answers to questions... dead friends and family might not have the power to do anything but call your name... your subconscious mind will not try to be friendly and talkative... but if a spirit gets really friendly and talkative, and starts talking like an obnoxious man trying to seduce you, telling you how much he loves you...your are talking to a demon... but a demon cannot do anything to you without your consent, don't believe a word it says, and don't be afraid of it...

 

 

Dawg

Edited by dawg
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Dawson Church - 2009 - ‎Health & Fitness
led to the discovery of the “half-second delay. ... Danish science writer Tor Norretranders says, “The show starts before we decide it should! ... Your conscious mind is only able toprocess approximately fifty bits of information a ... approximately eleven million bits per second.12 So the conscious mind, says Brad Blanton, PhD ...

1. Think Well, Live Well Now - Page 212 - Google Books Result
books.google.co.th/books?isbn=1612159745
Benay Behnke - 2011 - ‎Body, Mind & Spirit
Too many of us remain ignorant of our rights, allowing the enemy to turn the power we ... Ourconscious mind can only process 40 bits of information per second.

1. Our unconscious mind [Archive] - DRUMMERWORLD ...
www.drummerworld.com › ... › Off Topic Lounge

Aug 24, 2013 - 41 posts - ‎17 authors
Hal Galper basically says as much here and elsewhere ... There is a conscious mind thatcan think freely and create new ideas 'out of the box'. ... data per second, whereas the conscious mind processes at only 40 bits per second. ... mind, but I'm wary of descriptions of brain power in bits per second, for the ...


Dawg

Edited by dawg
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Great post, Dawg! (post 47)

 

The thing that's frustrating for some of us is that our left brains are so darned well developed from years of specific use. In my particular case, I have been a detective for over 40 years. although there is a component of 'right-brain-ness' that is an intuitive part of detective work (hunches, etc), there is a very rigid structure of evidence and evidence connection. It lays out like a family tree, one thing leading to another. Not a lot of room for abstract thought.

 

I've meditated for oh so many years, and I've never been able to truly experience the beings you speak of. How I would love to....

 

But as Castaneda said, some of us are Dreamers, some of us are Trackers. I'm a tracker; I track my own behavior. But how very frustrating it is to hear another describe the beautiful light beings that can be experienced and communicated with. Maybe in my next life...

Edited by manitou

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