manitou Posted June 21, 2014 Your description of the Moment was so similar to mine - except I was just sitting on my bed filing my nails. Suddenly I heard a train or a tornado, sounded like both at the same time. I quickly stepped outside and everything was still as glass. I have always considered that this was a kundalini awakening (as my third eye did develop shortly thereafter) - but I find that there is more to Enlightenment than a kundalini awakening. I think maybe the kundalini is part of the whole package, but there is still much work to be done. I'm not sure kundalini awakening always leads to enlightenment, but my theory is that enlightenment necessitates a K-awakening first. I could be dead wrong. Just my experience, and from speaking to others. 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tibetan_Ice Posted June 21, 2014 Dawg, During those six weeks what technique or practice were you doing to force yourself into your subconscious mind? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted June 22, 2014 Your description of the Moment was so similar to mine - except I was just sitting on my bed filing my nails. Suddenly I heard a train or a tornado, sounded like both at the same time. I quickly stepped outside and everything was still as glass. I have always considered that this was a kundalini awakening (as my third eye did develop shortly thereafter) - but I find that there is more to Enlightenment than a kundalini awakening. I think maybe the kundalini is part of the whole package, but there is still much work to be done. I'm not sure kundalini awakening always leads to enlightenment, but my theory is that enlightenment necessitates a K-awakening first. I could be dead wrong. Just my experience, and from speaking to others. First time for me at age 14, sitting on my uncle's hill farm cottage doorstep looking out at the town lights way down the valley. BANG! That was it. Total other- ness and 'no time', all one, everything. Strange thing was he kept pigs and a sow with her litter came up and all lay down right in front of 'me'. Still as all get out, even the piglets and those little guys seldom stay still for more than a few seconds at a time. Soon as the moment passed up they got and trotted off. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Strange thing was he kept pigs and a sow with her litter came up and all lay down right in front of 'me'. Still as all get out, even the piglets and those little guys seldom stay still for more than a few seconds at a time. Soon as the moment passed up they got and trotted off. Isn't it odd how animals react to this? I find that if I approach an animal with yin energy - receptive and not putting anything out there - that animals seem to merge with us. Maybe they approach us because those incredible moments like you just described is an absence of us putting out negative aura or energy field. Maybe they somehow feel the loving matrix and it's attuned with their own lack of convoluted thoughts. Edited June 22, 2014 by manitou 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spotless Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Spotless, on 19 Jun 2014 - 23:21, said: We tend to think in extreme pictures - our judgements are harsh. We are afraid to take a step for fear of appearing like a sucker but we will rain down hell on someone who ventures out in a mismatched pair of socks. We live in the future so as not to make a mistake. We compete for everything but don't want it if it's not selling well. If we pick up a good scent we want to hump it to death. Yes, we tend to imagine the worst case scenario and assume that's going to happen. Maybe we should reset to imagining the best case scenario instead. While this is often true, it was not what I was trying to communicate. We "imagine" (negative or positive) and analyze constantly and in extremes. We are in a constant buzz and nearly always in the future or past or concocting a judgment. We also cling to things like they are going to save us or heal us or be the Elixer we need to satisfy us. The miraculous happens as Dawg put it - at a time we least expect it - when for some moment this stops. Much of cultivation is the constant breaking of this pattern. Edited June 22, 2014 by Spotless 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Cultivation. Do ya think it ever stops? And I agree....the constant breaking of a pattern describes it well Edited June 22, 2014 by manitou 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawg Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Dawg, During those six weeks what technique or practice were you doing to force yourself into your subconscious mind? Tibetan Ice, During the six weeks before awakening all I did was try to convince my subconscious mind that mundane reality was just childish ignorance, and that the Buddha’s middle path was reality… But it was the structured step by step process of systematically cleansing my subconscious mind of conditioned behavior (delusion) ,that I had done before that, which set me up for awakening… SAMADHI... (concentration)… I had to first learn how to sit in meditation and turn off the thoughts (voice) in my mind, so that my mind was quiet… ONE-POINTEDNESS… then I had to learn how to sit in Samadhi until I reached ONE-POINTEDNESS (total concentration) where I was suspended in time, where hours could pass and it seemed like an instant… and when I opened your eyes, my body was energized, and everything in the world looked beautiful, like a Walt Disney Movie… (oh look !… what a beautiful pile of dog shit !)…and I could sit anywhere and immediately concentrate and turn off all thoughts effortlessly… ANGER & GREED… now that my Samadhi was solid, I could start to rid my mind of Anger and Greed, and realize that they were just conditioned responses that our subconscious mind was programmed with when we were little… by people who said that, “you should get angry if blab, blab, blab”… and “you should try to get as much blab, blab, blab as you can”… (anger and greed, are not want and want… which are major “attachments” that produce most of our karma)… and you realize that if someone makes you angry, they are stealing your energy… and if someone tries to make you angry, and you don’t get angry, you have stolen their energy… EQUANIMITY… (live and let live)… nobody is right, and nobody is wrong… you are entitled to believe what you choose to believe, and everyone else is entitled to believe what they choose to believe… you never again get sucked into an argument over who is right or wrong (your beliefs are your karma, their beliefs are their karma)… you don’t want other people telling you what to believe, so don’t tell other people what to believe… BODY INVESTIGATION… Physical & Mental… body investigation is the last and most complex and difficult step in the climb to awakening, but once you complete this step you are ripe for awakening… awakening is the destruction of delusion… Body investigation is basically about accepting the reality that your body and personality, accepting that they will die, and realizing that it is no big deal… Most people think that their body and personality are them, and are so terrified of death that they don’t want to think about it… they see the death of their body and personality as themselves being obliterated, and don’t understand that both are only transient features of this reincarnation… that they are immortal spirits, who have had many temporary bodies and personalities… and that they couldn’t die even if they wanted to… so they cling in fear to their body (physical) and their personality (mental)…. And refuse to do this part of the meditation… and because they cling to their body and personality which is delusion, they cannot reach awakening… they have got to let go of everything, and everything means everything… Body Investigation is far too complex to describe in detail in a short post like this… but you can google “body investigation” at Theravada Buddhist meditation sites)… DESTROYING DELUSION… (mundane reality is delusion)… the only reality is that there is no reality… there is only cause and effect… cause is intention… effect is karma… the only way to avoid making karma and creating delusion is the Buddha’s “middle path”, where everything is neutral and without intention… where there is no good or bad, because delusion is built up from the concept of good and bad, which are value judgments… to reach awakening we must convince our subconscious mind that mundane reality is just childish ignorance, and that the Buddha’s middle path is reality… ******************************************************** In the time of the Buddha, a monk would go live and meditate in a “charnel ground” to do “body investigation” (a charnel ground was where people would dump unclaimed dead bodies to rot away, or to be eaten by vultures and jackals)… there is a story from the time of the Buddha, about an old man whose family had thrown him out because he could no longer work so was useless… he went to the Buddha’s monastery and wanted to ordain as a monk, but the young monks he approached, ridiculed him and chased him away… so he decided to jump off a cliff and kill himself, so he could go on to his next reincarnation… the Buddha picked up on the old man, and put himself in the old man’s way… when the old man came down the path towards the Buddha, the Buddha hailed him and asked him where he was going… the old man told the Buddha how his family had thrown him out, how he wanted to ordain as a monk but was rejected, and that he was going to jump off a cliff, so he could get on with his next life… the Buddha told the old man that if he wanted to ordain as a monk, to come with him, that he would arrange it… the old man (who didn’t realize that he was talking to the Buddha) was ecstatic, and asked the Buddha “do you know somebody important at the monastery who will let me ordain”…??? So the old man was ordained, and a week later he was awakened… the young monks were amazed, and asked the Buddha how he had done it so quickly… the Buddha replied, “he had already thrown away his body”… Dawg Edited June 23, 2014 by dawg 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted June 23, 2014 EQUANIMITY… (live and let live)… nobody is right, and nobody is wrong… you are entitled to believe what you choose to believe, and everyone else is entitled to believe what they choose to believe… you never again get sucked into an argument over who is right or wrong (your beliefs are your karma, their beliefs are their karma)… you don’t want other people telling you what to believe, so don’t tell other people what to believe… BODY INVESTIGATION… Physical & Mental… body investigation is the last and most difficult step in the climb to awakening, but once you complete this step you are ripe for awakening… Most people think that their body and personality are them, and so are terrified of death and don’t want to think about it… and don’t understand that both are only transient features of this reincarnation… that they are immortal spirits, with a temporary body and personality… and that they couldn't die even if they wanted to… so they cling in fear to their body (physical) and their personality (mental)…. and if they cling to their body and personality, it is delusion, so they cannot reach awakening… you have got to let go of everything, and everything means everything… nice post, Dawg! I note your throwing in of Live and Let Live. You a 12-stepper by any chance? As to the fear of death - if a person is fortunate enough to experience the Stream - even for a moment - , that golden stream of Awareness memory is indelibly imprinted on the soul. It is truly 'Home', even if we don't remember it. But I have been there and recognized the feeling of being at Home where I belonged. Death becomes something to actually look forward to, not fear. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) "So the old man was ordained, and a week later he was awakened… the young monks were amazed, and asked the Buddha how he had done it so quickly… the Buddha replied, “he had already thrown away his body”… this little story could easily be taken incorrectly and misused by a sick person. For instance the body or a body is not the problem, it is attachment to body and or an ego-personality as being the only or true identity instead of same as being tools. (also the ego thinking it will reincarnate is an additional mistake) Edited June 23, 2014 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawg Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) manitou,What is a 12 stepper ? Dawg Edited June 23, 2014 by dawg 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawg Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) "So the old man was ordained, and a week later he was awakened… the young monks were amazed, and asked the Buddha how he had done it so quickly… the Buddha replied, “he had already thrown away his body”… this little story could easily be taken incorrectly and misused by a sick person. For instance the body or a body is not the problem, it is attachment to body and or an ego-personality as being the only or true identity instead of same as being tools. (also the ego thinking it will reincarnate is an additional mistake) 3 bob, If the old man was ready to throw his body off a cliff, so he could reincarnate, he was certainly NOT attached to it... and it wasn't his ego thinking his ego would be reincarnated... Dawg Edited June 23, 2014 by dawg 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Brian Posted June 23, 2014 manitou, What is a 12 stepper ? Dawg A member of a 12-step program. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3bob Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) 3 bob, If the old man was ready to throw his body off a cliff, so he could reincarnate, he was certainly NOT attached to it... and it wasn't his ego thinking his ego would be reincarnated... Dawg 1. He was ready to throw his "old" and thus to him "useless" body off the cliff - as was directly alluded to in the story. (and with reverse extrapolation he was once attached to it when it was young and useful) 2. and in doing so he envisioned that he would get a new body per reincarnation (with attachment to the idea that he would then no longer be old and useless). 3. thus it could easily be deducted that his ego was thinking that by getting a new body that it would then be reborn fresh and useful. (and destroy being old and useless as he was seeing himselff with the help of society) Seeing these possibilities of interpretation are not based on rocket science nor a big stretch of the imagination. If one is attached to just one interpretation of the story because it is apparently from a Buddhist source - I suggest one get over it. Edited June 23, 2014 by 3bob Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) manitou, What is a 12 stepper ? Dawg I just thought you might be one because a) you seem to know yourself very well, which people who have been 12-steppers for a long time tend to do, and in just about every Alcoholics Anonymous meeting room is usually a sign that says LIVE AND LET LIVE, among others.. Edited June 23, 2014 by manitou Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinone Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) How you know that this world is mundane and that spirit world is the real deal? In spirit world everything happens with the speed of thought but in mundane reality not, thus its illusion. hehe imho its matter of how you look at it. In my own mind everything happens with the speed of thought but here in reality there is rules thus its a challenge. therefore i purify my mundane energies to wisdom and perhaps i will reach somewhere that i don't want to go to yin world again, i mean spirit world. Is it even a spirit world the other side or is spirit world this when i speed up my vibrations so high that my body turns into light and can live on Venus or on Sun. Think about it, earth is mundane, then also sun is mundane but my body is not suitable to live there, but when i turn my body to suitable to live on sun? I think here is lots of hidden things what is guarded by wisdom. edit: What it means to speed up the vibrations versus making a connection with the subconsciousness? I know what it means when water moleculs start to speed up, it makes water boilng and hot then it becomes vapour, but when it again loses speed it becomes back water and if it loses even more speed it becomes ice. When water is but into pot then both ways if too hot or too cold(ice), pot will be "broken", water molecules will escape or gain "liberation". One way is cold and other is warm. How consciousness relates to this? Edited June 23, 2014 by allinone 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitou Posted June 24, 2014 It relates because the spirit can't be contained in anything. Liberation is the goal. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
allinone Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) It relates because the spirit can't be contained in anything. Liberation is the goal. Ice is liberation but its still in one piece with everyone else. Vapour element is individual, it has its own energy and when growing in speed its energy rises. While water has the opportunity to become both. From that i gather to make difference between two different paths. One is freezing the spirit other is make it single. From a book of Uruntia for an example if i remember correctly one is mergeing with the Holy soul or something and other is returning to paradise and meets the God in person. Still the one who merges with the Holy something" has a change to become a real deal. Edited June 24, 2014 by allinone 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zanshin Posted June 25, 2014 Read the title and wondered what the gods were afraid of and what they created to comfort themselves. Light, Big Bang, early creation- maybe they were scared of the dark. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dawg Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) 1. He was ready to throw his "old" and thus to him "useless" body off the cliff - as was directly alluded to in the story. (and with reverse extrapolation he was once attached to it when it was young and useful) 2. and in doing so he envisioned that he would get a new body per reincarnation (with attachment to the idea that he would then no longer be old and useless). 3. thus it could easily be deducted that his ego was thinking that by getting a new body that it would then be reborn fresh and useful. (and destroy being old and useless as he was seeing himselff with the help of society) Seeing these possibilities of interpretation are not based on rocket science nor a big stretch of the imagination. If one is attached to just one interpretation of the story because it is apparently from a Buddhist source - I suggest one get over it. 3 bob, Excuse me, but your delusion (mundane reality) is showing ! Metta, Dawg Edited June 25, 2014 by dawg 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 25, 2014 That gave me a belly laugh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 25, 2014 But you don't know Jack. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted June 25, 2014 1. He was ready to throw his "old" and thus to him "useless" body off the cliff - as was directly alluded to in the story. (and with reverse extrapolation he was once attached to it when it was young and useful) 2. and in doing so he envisioned that he would get a new body per reincarnation (with attachment to the idea that he would then no longer be old and useless). 3. thus it could easily be deducted that his ego was thinking that by getting a new body that it would then be reborn fresh and useful. (and destroy being old and useless as he was seeing himselff with the help of society) Seeing these possibilities of interpretation are not based on rocket science nor a big stretch of the imagination. If one is attached to just one interpretation of the story because it is apparently from a Buddhist source - I suggest one get over it. Yep youre seeing this clearly , very nicely demonstrated .. If a man read , the wiseman does such and such ,, well then one would only follow that path if they wanted to be 'wise' in the eyes of the author. Which also would mean that the both the author and the man are making value judgements about themselves and deeming what has merit vs what has not as if it were a thing one could dependably hang a hat on. Regular Buddhists however are no different from Christians or other religious folks that dont readily see past their own mindset. Yep the dude attempts to destroy his body that he has a negative image of because he isnt happy with it. Pokes out his eye since it offends him. The other view of a reader is that he too wishes to 'poke his eye out' because he isnt happy with his body just as it is, but wants to believe that he is so neutral about it that he gets to acquire a new one , and doesnt see the conflict inherent in the idea that throwing oneself off a cliff has intent behind it rather than indifference. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted June 25, 2014 But you don't know Jack. True story. One of my work colleagues introduced a friend of his to a hated manager at a faculty party with the following words... " Meet my friend Tony Shit. You know his brother Jack." 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stosh Posted June 25, 2014 True story. One of my work colleagues introduced a friend of his to a hated manager at a faculty party with the following words... " Meet my friend Tony Shit. You know his brother Jack." Yeah ,GMP , the story is probably fabrication , but it goes part and parcel with the idea that god creations might be connected to fears and operate on a stage of suspended disbelief. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
