The "Official" Mo Pai & "Things You Might Not Know About Real Mo Pai" Thread

[Andrei]

I thought number 42 is the key to everything in universe.

[GrandmasterP]

42 boils down to 6 though.

[SonOfTheGods]

Interesting. How is energy developed and (is it) circulated?

 

Well, being that the MCO is Forbidden, I'd say the "circulation" part is minimal

 

Focus on LDT 24/7- then compress it- the theory in a nutshell. Yang/Yin Compress/Fuse- then again.

Like an onion- layer upon layer.

 

Though, actually, just doing that- is impossible, - because the body has it's own safety valves, over load/flow valves, etc

 

The Heel meridians are the built in safety mechanism to negate a build up of Qi in just one area.

 

However, Bio_Physics isn't important in MoPai

[SonOfTheGods]

Jim McMillan passed Level 1 after Chang pulse/examined him.

 

Jim never did reverse breathing in Level 1- even though you're supposed to reverse breathe.

 

Chang never knew, according to Jim,

[Horus]

Thanks SOTG!

 

You could be writing some books you know...that is if you had the time and didn't train like an olympic athlete.

[SonOfTheGods]

Thanks SOTG!

 

You could be writing some books you know...that is if you had the time and didn't train like an olympic athlete.

Thank you brother

[joeblast]

Jim McMillan passed Level 1 after Chang pulse/examined him.

 

Jim never did reverse breathing in Level 1- even though you're supposed to reverse breathe.

 

Chang never knew, according to Jim,

Mechanics, mechanics, mechanics...

 

It was why at 5'9 155 I could outdrive my 6'4 240 buddy on the golf course (well, until back, shoulder, elbow caught up with me...and he finally learned my mechanics and I've seen him blast the ball 360+ since then, lol) and 7-8mph on the pitching radar gun alllllllllll mechanics.

Edited June 19, 2014 by joeblast

[thelerner]

This is getting mundane, Lets heat it up. What yer take on Yin and yan chi?

 

I think if yin chi was referred to as 'earth' chi in this instance, it'd mean the same thing, but 95% of the controversy would go away. Its not like this stuff is easily seen or measured. For something so hard to describe and measure, some people get foam in there mouth if someone describes it differently. And there's the problem of translations, chi/qi in an Eastern dictionary has a pageful of definitions, or so I'm told. But in the West we hold tightly to just a single one, depending on our school.

 

Again, what your take on yin and yan and how they they mix. Gin, vodka, shaken, stirred or compressed?

[BaguaKicksAss]

It is easily seen and measured though, by those (JC for example) who have been on the path awhile. Oh hell even some noobs can see it and tell the diff between someone who had a LOT of it within/around them) .

[SonOfTheGods]

This is getting mundane, Lets heat it up. What yer take on Yin and yan chi?

 

I think if yin chi was referred to as 'earth' chi in this instance, it'd mean the same thing, but 95% of the controversy would go away. Its not like this stuff is easily seen or measured. For something so hard to describe and measure, some people get foam in there mouth if someone describes it differently. And there's the problem of translations, chi/qi in an Eastern dictionary has a pageful of definitions, or so I'm told. But in the West we hold tightly to just a single one, depending on our school.

 

Again, what your take on yin and yan and how they they mix. Gin, vodka, shaken, stirred or compressed?

 

I see what you did there

 

Yin follows Yang and vice versa.

 

 

There are various layers/levels of Yin - deep core of Earth, etc.

 

I went into detail about all that on another thread(s)

 

If someone feels/believes they are being insulated from Yin- go outside and touch a tree.

 

Ratio 1:1 Yang/Yin-

 

It is the building blocks of Matter.

 

Mo Pai is relatively primitive in Bio-Energy Physics- IMO/IME.

 

Or, Mo Pai is Ultra Advanced in Bio-Energy and understands concepts the rest of the world, don't.

 

Depends where your position is.

 

Internal Arts is a soft style- so for a Combat Art- MoPai is silent on the actual techniques of hard style combat.

 

Or- MoPai is both.

 

I do not want to "put my opinion in it"- so if I don't know the Facts, I just say so.

 

"72nd" level of MoPai is opening the BaiHui- which is relatively, not much of a big deal- in the TaiChi scheme of things.

 

So again- either Mopai is primitive- or super advanced and achieving opening the crown is very very rare and only a couple of people EVER accomplished this.

 

MoPai acknowledges only 3 Aura "types": Black, White and Gold

 

Again- pretty primitive.

 

MoPai has no "religious doctrine" Chang did not know what Daoism was, and was himself, a christian.

 

I believe "72 levels" just means you train MoPai from birth until death- for Perfection/#72.

 

Jim McMillan was able to perform Telekinesis- however he needed John Chang to produce a Yin Field to make it successful.

 

Basically, Jim couldn't do it by himself.

 

Does that mean most of us can also do Telekinesis with Chang's Yin Assist?

 

On my forum I discussed ways of procuring your own Yin Field.

 

How about people who have the innate ability to perform Telekinesis without MoPai training? Are these individuals born at Level 72?

 

Are they Immortal, then?

 

Obviously, per Mopai Bio-Energy understanding- these people are born with Yin/Yang "ALREADY FUSED"- THUS THEY'RE IMMORTAL ACCORDING TO THE MOPAI STANDARD

[silent thunder]

Some very clear, concise discussion.

Thanks.

[SonOfTheGods]

Jim McMillan passed Level 1 after Chang pulse/examined him.

 

Jim never did reverse breathing in Level 1- even though you're supposed to reverse breathe.

 

Chang never knew, according to Jim,

 

I dug out the reference straight from Jim's Autobiography:

Seeking the Master of Mo Pai:

How an American became the first Western student.

By Jim McMillan:

 

When I first began my training Pak John neglected to tell

me exactly how to do Mo Pai’s breathing correctly because of the

little time I had with him. He didn’t tell me about the

“reverse” breathing (Years later he claims he did). Despite not

training with this “traditional” part for over three years I

found my development was more than adequate. And my teacher also

confirmed this without knowing I had been training with just

regular breathing. And there were absolutely “no” adverse issues

or problems whatsoever…everything was good!

I can’t help thinking about how he might have reacted if he

knew I was using “regular breathing” before he gave me his OK.

But thank goodness he was unaware and gave me the thumbs up

first, before he found out.

Edited June 19, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[SonOfTheGods]

These are the Only Two References I can find in regard to associating MoPai with a Hard Style of Martial Arts:

 

Magus of Java By Kosta:

Pai Lok Nen handed Liao a large book and some scrolls.

“In this book,” Sifu told him, “are the secrets of internal power

all the way up to Level Seventy-Two. These scrolls designate you as

my heir. You are now the Master of my school of Pa Lei Chuan (eight

ways thunder boxing). You may leave this place or stay here as you

wish.”

 

"Thunder Boxing"

 

>Magus of Java By Kosta:

“So, Kosta,” John continued, “tell me now. Am I a Taoist?”

“In my judgment as an educated man, you are very much a neichia

Taoist, Sifu.”

“I see. And if I told you that I practiced ch’ikung and neikung

strictly for martial arts skill, as I am the Headmaster of a martial arts

school and not a priest, what would you say to that? Remember, I

only became exposed to the realm of spirits after I had developed

yin-yang kung—Levels Four, Five, and so on. I was thirty-seven years

old when I first saw my Master’s spirit; besides which, I only developed

a knowledge and an interest in matters of the spirit after I went

up to the mountains for my retreat in 1992. In other words, I did not

originally pursue neikung for any metaphysical gain it offered, nor

because of any specific spiritual belief.”

“Okay, if you are not a Taoist alchemist, what are you, then?”

“I’m the Headmaster of Pa Lei Chuan, a school of kung fu. I am

the teacher of a Chinese science called neikung that involves studying,

enhancing, and finally combining the energies of yin and yang

in the body; the particular neikung I teach is of the lineage attributed

to the sage Mo-Tzu. Beyond this I am simply a man like any other.”

Does anyone here specifically see that "Thunder Boxing" is Taught WITH MoPai- as a consummate Hard Style?

 

Can you force yourself to see it?

Edited June 19, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[thelerner]

It is easily seen and measured though, by those (JC for example) who have been on the path awhile. Oh hell even some noobs can see it and tell the diff between someone who had a LOT of it within/around them) .

I know, but its still 'feelings'. Until there's a better way to quantify it, it'll continue to be a pseudo science.

[SonOfTheGods]

Researching Thunder Boxing:

 

 

You've got things a bit mixed up. There is no "level" system in Shaolin Wahnam. Not every martial arts system has the same techniques and ranking methods. The martial arts system written about in "The Magus of Java" has 72 "levels" according to the author, Kostas Danaos. This "72 level" system is peculiar to the Mo-Pai Eight Ways Thunder Boxing System said to belong to Sifu John Chang in the book you read. That is an example of one martial arts system, but it is not necessarily true for other systems.

http://www.wongkiewkit.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-3240.html

[SonOfTheGods]

So John Chang knew Thunder Boxing, but no where does it say it is exclusively taught as a Hard Style Technique to compliment MoPai.

 

MoPai is the Combat System.

 

Anyone else know differently?

 

 

“I’m the Headmaster of Pa Lei Chuan, a school of kung fu.

 

 

I am the teacher of a Chinese science called neikung that involves studying,
enhancing, and finally combining the energies of yin and yang
in the body; the particular neikung I teach is of the lineage attributed
to the sage Mo-Tzu"

Edited June 19, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[SonOfTheGods]

So John Chang knew Thunder Boxing, but no where does it say it is exclusively taught as a Hard Style Technique to compliment MoPai.

 

MoPai is the Combat System.

 

Anyone else know differently?

[LeoViridis]

I'm sorry man, I mean no offense to anyone, and I was firmly rooted in my decision not to get into discussions like this... But I don't see how you can just throw everything in a big pot, mix it together and pretend it makes sense. Then again, belief is up to the individual.

[dawei]

I'm sorry man, I mean no offense to anyone, and I was firmly rooted in my decision not to get into discussions like this... But I don't see how you can just throw everything in a big pot, mix it together and pretend it makes sense. Then again, belief is up to the individual.

 

It seems to me he is throwing it together for discussion... but you only want to state not to get into such discussions... then I am not sure what your discussing. Let's stick to discussing the topic.

[GrandmasterP]

MoPai is the clan.

Who they are is MoPai, what they do is what they do and some MoPai will do different things and have other interests to other MoPai.

The only way to be MoPai is to be born MoPai.

Edited June 19, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[LeoViridis]

It seems to me he is throwing it together for discussion... but you only want to state not to get into such discussions... then I am not sure what your discussing. Let's stick to discussing the topic.

 

No. I stated that I was rooted in my decision not to get into these discussions. Was. I usually prefer to keep my opinions to myself regarding these matters.

 

I merely stated my view on this point. I don't think you can just mix and match according to numerology, numbers, and the rest of what was posted, and then try to make some grander sense of things. But that is my view.

[dawei]

No. I stated that I was rooted in my decision not to get into these discussions. Was. I usually prefer to keep my opinions to myself regarding these matters.

 

I merely stated my view on this point. I don't think you can just mix and match according to numerology, numbers, and the rest of what was posted, and then try to make some grander sense of things. But that is my view.

 

You don't think you can just mix and match.... so why not discuss your point of view instead of claiming you don't want to get into it... Your trying to have your cake and eat it too.

 

I would say: say what you want in terms of the topic, support your position and idea... or just stop posting to the thread.

 

This is not the place to discuss why not to discuss. Because of these kinds of games by similar posters like you, it will not be tolerated. Stay on topic and discuss. Your free to speak your point of view on why you cannot just mix and match, etc.

[thelerner]

I thought SoG's posts about 72 were a bit wordy, but the point is interesting. That '72' is about completion not number of levels. So there's not a book spending 10 pages on how to get from level 56 to 57. There are levels, but 72 is a reference about cycles and completion. It'd be easy for an outsider to miss that.

 

There are a couple examples in the bible where there are numbers that people take literally where its really a code meaning they 'walked with God'. Yet without the understanding its easy to take such numbers literally and supernaturally. It'd nice to have an authority and they're out there. I know GrandmasterP has talked to Changs son and MJ Becker has excellent first hand knowledge.

 

No idea if its true or not, but there is a sense to it. From a martial arts point of view, levels break down after a certain point. Unless you're teaching a kids class and need lots of levels and stripes to keep people going. I simply see it hard getting 72 distinct levels of difference. You'd hope there'd be at least a couple of people at each level walking around. I wish that was the case in Mo Pai, but I don't see it or know that its out there. Especially since levels in the 30's are deemed to be 'immortality'.

 

Sometimes its not so much mix and match, its gaining a wider perspective that comes from study and scholarship of a wide range of relevant material.

[SonOfTheGods]

I thought SoG's posts about 72 were a bit wordy, but the point is interesting. That '72' is about completion not number of levels. So there's not a book spending 10 pages on how to get from level 56 to 57. There are levels, but 72 is a reference about cycles and completion. It'd be easy for an outsider to miss that.

 

There are a couple examples in the bible where there are numbers that people take literally where its really a code meaning they 'walked with God'. Yet without the understanding its easy to take such numbers literally and supernaturally. It'd nice to have an authority and they're out there. I know GrandmasterP has talked to Changs son and MJ Becker has excellent first hand knowledge.

 

No idea if its true or not, but there is a sense to it. From a martial arts point of view, levels break down after a certain point. Unless you're teaching a kids class and need lots of levels and stripes to keep people going. I simply see it hard getting 72 distinct levels of difference. You'd hope there'd be at least a couple of people at each level walking around.

 

Yes, a lot of words lol.

 

But I wanted to present facts- not my opinion.

 

Rather than saying "As an Occultist, I see #72 everywhere"- I thought it best to back up my point, and lay my cards on the table.

 

Those who oppose my arguements, I would also expect them to bring their facts.

[Horus]

No. I stated that I was rooted in my decision not to get into these discussions. Was. I usually prefer to keep my opinions to myself regarding these matters.

 

I merely stated my view on this point. I don't think you can just mix and match according to numerology, numbers, and the rest of what was posted, and then try to make some grander sense of things. But that is my view.

If what you say is true, then it undermines life itself. We come from insubstancial to substancial for the purpose of experiencing that which we are through that which we are not...

 

Mixing and matching is what life, and taoism is all about.

 

So, I'd reconsider that root you planted for it will only lead into stagnation, not growth, not "sense".

 

Maybe I'm "wrong", but what would you suggest otherwise - don't mix, match, don't correlate, don't assess, and don't transmute wisdom from knowledge? Sounds like fundamentalism?

 

IMO you were drawn into this because it hit a cord with you...it challenged something within you....like the "untruth" that you cannot draw a greater sense of things through a study of diverging systems (that in reality all converge to the same point of synergy).

 

But then, Dr Sheldon Cooper would have us all on within this argument...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/73_%28number%29

 

Would Dr Cooper care to join this thread?