The "Official" Mo Pai & "Things You Might Not Know About Real Mo Pai" Thread

[SonOfTheGods]

Wanting to figure out what went wrong in bringing Mopai to the West, it's best to examine who brought it here.

 

I outlined some shadey points regarding the original film makers (it's on my forum).

 

Interestingly- someone posted on my forum- some items from Kosta's FaceBook.

 

The following are Kosta's Own Words:

 

"I keep getting Kosta Danaos letters. I mean, they just won't stop, the guy is as popular now as he was in 2001, which is horrible. Plus, everyone knows better than me now, and the majority of the questions I get are of a personal nature, like, yo dude, how come you use mouthwash? I'm also kept abreast by "well-wishers" of what is going on with the internet and who is posting what. I've been screaming "I DON'T CARE" for years now, but no one seems to be listening, and they let me know things anyway, just to make sure I know. I've contemplated shutting down my e-mail and contacts but I'm not going to be driven off the Net by morons. So let's try a different approach.

Here is a higher resolution photograph of my hands when I was training - I published lower res ones in a book ten years ago, just to leave room for doubt. You will notice the burn marks right along the pericardium meridian. You will notice they are severe as well - that gives an indication of the energy that was being moved. My student Stamatis had similar marks, at some points even more powerful than mine. So, e-mail writing dudes, here's the thing: yo homie, u tink u so bad en impotant en I be havin to respek u cauz you so bad dude you neigong homie yeah jes like me. So show me, boy. Show me marks like the ones I'm showing you now and I'll know you got somewhere. Because if you can't, you know what that means, right? It means YOU ARE DUMB AND GAY.

That should keep them busy for the next five years.!"

 

 

If you read Jim McMillan's book- it is chock full of name calling, racism, and bullying (cursing out a crippled man in a wheelchair). Once he smacked a neighbor's dog and paralysed it for a few days.

 

Read the book if you think I exaggerate.

 

Seeing how Kosta & McMillan both act in Public- "Post Mopai" - "- makes Me understand better- the mind frame of the WESTERNIZED MoPai Klan

Edited June 19, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[dawei]

Seeing how Kosta & McMillan both act in Public- "Post Mopai" - "- makes Me understand better- the mind frame of the WESTERNIZED MoPai Klan

 

I don't want to generalize too much myself but I think the point you are making is that energy practices like Mo Pai which are highly specialized and require a high degree of master oversight, could end up with energy and spirit imbalance. This is true of any energy/spiritual practice.

[LeoViridis]

You don't think you can just mix and match.... so why not discuss your point of view instead of claiming you don't want to get into it... Your trying to have your cake and eat it too.

 

I would say: say what you want in terms of the topic, support your position and idea... or just stop posting to the thread.

 

This is not the place to discuss why not to discuss. Because of these kinds of games by similar posters like you, it will not be tolerated. Stay on topic and discuss. Your free to speak your point of view on why you cannot just mix and match, etc.

 

Ok, why not, I'll express my view a bit.

 

First of all, I think it's foolish to assume that the 72 levels are equal to numerology... Sure, maybe the progression in the system (or the levels) doesn't have such a rigorous distinction. But that doesn't justify equating it with numerology, Venus, Lucifer and the Goetia, and then claiming it's merely symbolic and that it doesn't exist, without any first hand info (that you can prove to have). Now, I'm not going to go and comment on every single statement, since there was a whole wall of text of them. I can say that maybe the number 72 has some significance. It was mentioned in other cultures. But describing the progression system of any school as "symbolic" or "non-existent" merely on such evidence is ridiculous. Then ascribing some meaning of "Spiritual Perfection" to number 7 and "Duality or Adam and Eve" to number 2 is also far-fetched. That is again subjective, not a universal rule.

 

Second, making it sound like "high-end, advanced" Nei Gong moves over to NeiDan is also incorrect in my point of view. There is no reason to assume that one leads to the other or vice-versa. Furthermore, equating JinDan, the Holy Grail and the Philosopher's Stone just shows lack of understanding from my point of view. There is no substantial evidence to show that these three have anything in common... at all. And I find it funny how Mo Pai somehow ended up being equated with magick and sorcery. There is no real connection. Mo Pai is Nei Gong. Magick and sorcery is not Nei Gong. That much can be understood, right?

 

Third, claiming that John Chang was born special goes against what John Chang himself said... That there is nothing special about him aside from his training and meditation. Putting him in the role of a sorcerer/necromancer is quite shocking, and frankly kind of makes you think this whole thing is a Harry Potter novel. John Chang is a master of Nei Gong and Kung Fu... not really a sorcerer. And though he can communicate with spirits, that is not his prime objective, and he doesn't do it for the purpose of somehow using the spirits or using them for divination. Therefore he is not a necromancer.

 

Fourth, is my personal opinion. I don't trust SOTG when he says that he talked with the people who train Mo Pai on the darknet. I think that the idea is absurd. But that's my opinion. Why would the Indonesian students even need the darknet to converse about their activities and training? And then, by some incredible miracle, he stumbled unto their conversation and was accepted, and they even shared their information with him... that doesn't seem like a believable story to me, I'm sorry. I could also claim that years ago, I met George Bush on the darknet, and he was arguing with the Al-Qaeda up there, and I got friendly with him, and he admitted that he was a lizard from outer space... Just not a believable story. I won't flame on SOTG for it though.

 

As for GrandmasterP's statement. I can't say who you talked with or who you didn't talk with... but I find it rather silly that Jim, Kosta and their students progressed through the system, while being told "fake" information, if that is what you claim.

 

 

I'll state again that I mean no offense to anyone with anything I said, just to make it clear.

[LeoViridis]

If what you say is true, then it undermines life itself. We come from insubstancial to substancial for the purpose of experiencing that which we are through that which we are not...

 

Mixing and matching is what life, and taoism is all about.

 

So, I'd reconsider that root you planted for it will only lead into stagnation, not growth, not "sense".

 

Maybe I'm "wrong", but what would you suggest otherwise - don't mix, match, don't correlate, don't assess, and don't transmute wisdom from knowledge? Sounds like fundamentalism?

 

IMO you were drawn into this because it hit a cord with you...it challenged something within you....like the "untruth" that you cannot draw a greater sense of things through a study of diverging systems (that in reality all converge to the same point of synergy).

 

But then, Dr Sheldon Cooper would have us all on within this argument...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/73_%28number%29

 

Would Dr Cooper care to join this thread?

 

Sure, life mixes and matches, everything around mixes and matches, it's part of nature. But the same doesn't go about logic. But you can't simply throw different cultures, systems, ideals, into a big pot, mix it together, and magically pull out a grander sense. That's my view. I can't agree that this number whole 72 is merely symbolic in every way, because numerology says so. Indeed this topic struck a chord with me... but sadly not in a good way. There are thing you can and cannot equate.

[LeoViridis]

Wanting to figure out what went wrong in bringing Mopai to the West, it's best to examine who brought it here.

 

I outlined some shadey points regarding the original film makers (it's on my forum).

 

Interestingly- someone posted on my forum- some items from Kosta's FaceBook.

 

The following are Kosta's Own Words:

 

 

If you read Jim McMillan's book- it is chock full of name calling, racism, and bullying (cursing out a crippled man in a wheelchair). Once he smacked a neighbor's dog and paralysed it for a few days.

 

Read the book if you think I exaggerate.

 

Seeing how Kosta & McMillan both act in Public- "Post Mopai" - "- makes Me understand better- the mind frame of the WESTERNIZED MoPai Klan

 

Honestly,... Kosta is probably just fed up with everything. I don't blame him either.

[Brian]

 

<snip>

I could also claim that years ago, I met George Bush on the darknet, and he was arguing with the Al-Qaeda up there, and I got friendly with him, and he admitted that he was a lizard from outer space

<snip>

^^^That would explain a few things, though...

[Horus]

Then ascribing some meaning of "Spiritual Perfection" to number 7 and "Duality or Adam and Eve" to number 2 is also far-fetched. That is again subjective, not a universal rule.

Quoting from "A Course in Time Travel"...www.time-travelers.org/ :

 

"The Primordial Second Dimension

The maximum phase, is energy at its

maximum state of vibration. It is the

sum of all vibratory states. It is a

universe of white light. It is, by its self,

a one dimensional universe, but,

because of its polarization with the

negative pole, exists in two

dimensional space. This is the

Primordial Second dimension, it is the

primary universal center and is the

birth place of the Sun Sign LEO. (The

Primordial Second dimension is the

stellar prototype, or Universal Sun.)

The Second dimension, in our three

dimensional world, represents all that

is in existence, that resides within the

void. In other words, all created

matter in any form, within space. The

Primordial Second dimension is the

PRIMORDIAL PRESENT. (Time of

forever now), in that it can never

experience anything other than itself,

in present time, and it can never

cease to exist."

 

In other words, the numeral 2 is derived of the natural existence of the Primordial Second Dimension..."a universe" within which nothing is ever experienced other than "itself"...which is the reality described in the garden of eden - ie a time prior to knowledge beyond the experience of self, a time before the knowledge of "good and evil"...

[thelerner]

Lets not get lost in minutiae, its an interesting theory that 72 might not represent a literal number. It'd be interesting if anyone had information, but in the scheme of things its not too important. Numerology is a pretty fuzzy field.

 

Here on the bums Mo Pai's has tended to create way more animosity then it should.

Let's point this thread in a better direction. Cause without a bit of positivity it'll end up drifting downward.

 

What are the positives of Mo Pai? What bang for the buck can a practitioner honestly hope for, without the expectation they'll become the next John Chang.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Unless you have practiced Mo Pai for many years; there is no way you can know what it is. (same with any system really).

Lets see some lineage charts from everyone .

It is interesting though, to pick apart a system and see how it works. I just see a lot of "this is how it is" on the forums.

How about a personal experiences with it thread!!! :) I think MP might just be too popular for only those taught, and who have practiced it to discuss it, (unfortunately) by this point.

Edited June 20, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[Horus]

I guess a major premise of this thread is the idea that 72 is a natural "basis" for "all" systems - rectifying a sense of completion, or unity, synergy and wholeness.

 

Well, in the theory of earth grid dynamics - the human physical/energetic body is synonymous with the earth's physical/energetic body - and that our chakras/energy centers are reflective of the earths.

 

So, there are 72 bonded pairs of major signifigant points/sites on the earth grid (2x72=144)...

 

Quote from Robert Coon:

 

"The complete planetary structure contains 12 original inspirational sites, and an additional 144 centres which combine into 72 bonded pairs or partnerships. When complete, energy and information can be sent from any site on earth and arrive at any other site."

 

So, what we are dealing with is 12 transpersonal chakras, and 144 additional centers which combine into 72 bonded pairs (which , i'll eat my hat if they are not yin/yang bonded pairs)...

 

http://earthchakras.org/72-Bonds.php

[Horus]

Unless you have practiced Mo Pai for many years; there is no way you can know what it is. (same with any system really).

Lets see some lineage charts from everyone .

I disagree BKA

 

We are "all of it"...

 

You cannot separate yourself from all of it. Everyone and everything is your lineage chart in real-time.

 

So, anyone can access and become one with, and "know without knowing", anything - without needing to practice it for a second. That doesn't mean that everyone does...but certainly, to rule that out is seriously limiting oneself.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I disagree BKA

 

We are "all of it"...

 

You cannot separate yourself from all of it. Everyone and everything is your lineage chart in real-time.

 

So, anyone can access and become one with, and "know without knowing", anything - without needing to practice it for a second. That doesn't mean that everyone does...but certainly, to rule that out is seriously limiting oneself.

 

Oh to practice it sure .

 

But tell others how it is, and teach them how to do it? Not so much IMO. Not saying the folks here don't have the necessary experience, I'm more saying IF they don't.... (and not just about MP)

[Horus]

Oh to practice it sure .

 

But tell others how it is, and teach them how to do it? Not so much IMO. Not saying the folks here don't have the necessary experience, I'm more saying IF they don't.... (and not just about MP)

Sure, but that "IF is just "FEAR & DOUBT" in dualistic resistance to Faith....

 

And I mean that fundamentally, not personally

 

"The lines of communication with the higher

self are severed by the logical mind through doubt,

fear, and disbelief. Strong faith is required to open

this line of communication. Faith requires no logical

proof; if proof is needed, then doubts interfere

and breed failure. The logical mind cannot know

absolute faith and, therefore, faith must come from

deep within one's true self. Any form of cynicism

will lead to the death of spiritual growth, for it

strikes at the root of faith itself.

 

Faith is not something that can be forced. Even

after practicing Medical Qigong for many years,

Qigong doctors may still have to battle their own

questions. However, through successful practice,

the seed of faith is established, allowing it to grow

and blossom. The opposite of faith is doubt combined

with fear. Suppression and denial of fear

builds and armors the ego, which leads to further

pain. If the fears are accepted and acknowledged,

they can be overcome by faith.

 

Dr Jerry Alan Johnson, Chinese Medical Qigong Therapy, p139

 

So, I hear what you are saying, and yet I can't agree with the idea that is out there that to para phrase "the untrained and uneducated will lead you astray from the truth"...after all entering into that which you are not is an offering and gift to remember that which you are.

 

So, wrong information is still a gift...

[Silent Answers]

Quoting from "A Course in Time Travel"...www.time-travelers.org/ :

 

"The Primordial Second Dimension

The maximum phase, is energy at its

maximum state of vibration. It is the

sum of all vibratory states. It is a

universe of white light. It is, by its self,

a one dimensional universe, but,

because of its polarization with the

negative pole, exists in two

dimensional space. This is the

Primordial Second dimension, it is the

primary universal center and is the

birth place of the Sun Sign LEO. (The

Primordial Second dimension is the

stellar prototype, or Universal Sun.)

The Second dimension, in our three

dimensional world, represents all that

is in existence, that resides within the

void. In other words, all created

matter in any form, within space. The

Primordial Second dimension is the

PRIMORDIAL PRESENT. (Time of

forever now), in that it can never

experience anything other than itself,

in present time, and it can never

cease to exist."

 

In other words, the numeral 2 is derived of the natural existence of the Primordial Second Dimension..."a universe" within which nothing is ever experienced other than "itself"...which is the reality described in the garden of eden - ie a time prior to knowledge beyond the experience of self, a time before the knowledge of "good and evil"...

Bingo

[SonOfTheGods]

Lungmen Pai, Mo Pai, NeiGong (NOT QiGong)- all of it= has Sorcery connections.

John Chang is CONSTANTLY engaging in Spirit Communication.

There's a whole chapter on Keris.

Interesting that people disagree, but bring ZERO FACTS to back up their arguments.

I have quoted passages from books and also packed this thread with research from various cultures, religions and magickal traditions.

Actually, I may have brought too many facts, per: "wall of text".

Believing whether I spoke to Indonesian and Chinese students of splintered MoPai cliques is your choice.

Jim McMillan's students WERE ALL TAUGHT ONLINE.

Funny, that "online discussion about MoPai" only works one way

So, if I say:

"Yes, I have trained in the MoPai for many years, and I am passed Level #4" - would it make a difference?

Who would believe me?

Would they want videos?

I already made a video- and we all know how that went.

I was giving examples of the Humble Indonesian and Chinese students online-
Versus the Westernised version of a MoPai seed planted in western soil:
that tree bore hybrid, tainted fruit.

For the first time, I watched Dragon Ball Z, a couple of nights ago- due to the prompting of a few posters on my forum.

It is Painfully obvious what is going on with MoPai.

"Certain people" - "Type of people" - Crave for ultimate power without caring about Enlightenment.

You want to know what type of "Tree" it is?

Check out it's "Fruit"

Edited June 20, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[GrandmasterP]

Poor old Jim just 'didn't get it' simply because he didn't want it.

The minute spirit communication came up then Jim had to begin making his own meanings based on his Christian background and upbringing.

All respect to Jim who comes across as an honourable dude via his book and I've not seen any personal criticisms of Jim as a guy.

IMO he was a nice guy.

However, Jim's take on crucial aspects of the MoPai path, were of necessity influenced by his own faith path preferences.

Some MoPai are Shamen.

No shamen, no MoPai.

It's all of a piece and all 'in house' - clan members only.

Anyone not born into MoPai need not apply.

These guys boosting Western MoPai are no more MoPai than our cat is the Pope of Rome, nor ever shall be.

[LeoViridis]

Lungmen Pai, Mo Pai, NeiGong (NOT QiGong)- all of it= has Sorcery connections.

John Chang is CONSTANTLY engaging in Spirit Communication.

There's a whole chapter on Keris.

Interesting that people disagree, but bring ZERO FACTS to back up their arguments.

I have quoted passages from books and also packed this thread with research from various cultures, religions and magickal traditions.

Actually, I may have brought too many facts, per: "wall of text".

Believing whether I spoke to Indonesian and Chinese students of splintered MoPai cliques is your choice.

Jim McMillan's students WERE ALL TAUGHT ONLINE.

Funny, that "online discussion about MoPai" only works one way

So, if I say:

"Yes, I have trained in the MoPai for many years, and I am passed Level #4" - would it make a difference?

Who would believe me?

Would they want videos?

I already made a video- and we all know how that went.

I was giving examples of the Humble Indonesian and Chinese students online-

Versus the Westernised version of a MoPai seed planted in western soil:

that tree bore hybrid, tainted fruit.

For the first time, I watched Dragon Ball Z, a couple of nights ago- due to the prompting of a few posters on my forum.

It is Painfully obvious what is going on with MoPai.

"Certain people" - "Type of people" - Crave for ultimate power without caring about Enlightenment.

You want to know what type of "Tree" it is?

Check out it's "Fruit"

 

I think I brought up sufficient facts to disagree with you. I tried to keep my post as short as I could. I don't think I even addressed all the issues with your logic. Even if you'd say you're past level 4, I'd believe it about as much as your claims of talking and befriending the Indonesian students and them sharing thier techniques with you.

 

And there is no "westernized Mo Pai". There are people in the west who are interested in Mo Pai, but that doesn't make it any more "westernized Mo Pai" as there is "westernized Qi Gong", "westernized Taoism", or "westernized Buddhism".

[GrandmasterP]

I've adopted 'Western MoPai' to differentiate between the MoPai who are and would be accepted as MoPai by the MoPai and those ( generally west of Java) who use the term MoPai to describe what they do but who would not be accepted as MoPai by 'the' real MoPai.

Western MoPai is a genuine thing with its adherents.

It is not however the same thing as the MoPai which is a Chinese clan with traditions and praxes, very much 'pre- internet' era ( but not so much now as the post 'John Chang' generation of born MoPai developed other interests with greater options than the 'old folks' ever had) active in Java and other settlements where Straits Chinese from the MoPai villages of China settled, mainly as traders.

To themselves Western MoPai players 'are' MoPai and no one will convince them otherwise.

To the MoPai they are not MoPai nor ever can be.

The MoPai is a closed clan system, no one who is not born into it may become part of it, ever.

Whatever MoPai is nowadays, by the very nature of social change and cultural development on its home turf, it is far and away different than it was way back when Jim and Kosta visited it.

Edited June 20, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[LeoViridis]

Quoting from "A Course in Time Travel"...www.time-travelers.org/ :

 

"The Primordial Second Dimension

The maximum phase, is energy at its

maximum state of vibration. It is the

sum of all vibratory states. It is a

universe of white light. It is, by its self,

a one dimensional universe, but,

because of its polarization with the

negative pole, exists in two

dimensional space. This is the

Primordial Second dimension, it is the

primary universal center and is the

birth place of the Sun Sign LEO. (The

Primordial Second dimension is the

stellar prototype, or Universal Sun.)

The Second dimension, in our three

dimensional world, represents all that

is in existence, that resides within the

void. In other words, all created

matter in any form, within space. The

Primordial Second dimension is the

PRIMORDIAL PRESENT. (Time of

forever now), in that it can never

experience anything other than itself,

in present time, and it can never

cease to exist."

 

In other words, the numeral 2 is derived of the natural existence of the Primordial Second Dimension..."a universe" within which nothing is ever experienced other than "itself"...which is the reality described in the garden of eden - ie a time prior to knowledge beyond the experience of self, a time before the knowledge of "good and evil"...

 

This is again subjective. There is no universal rule or axiom that says "number 2 = duality/Adam and Eve, and number 7 = spiritual perfection". None whatsoever. Different people and different cultures ascribe different meanings to different numbers. There is no unifying principle to this.

 

The Garden of Eden was also the time when God wasn't described as all-merciful and omniscient and so omnipotent yet. At those times people believed that the sky was a dome, covering the Earth to keep the water that surrounded it out.

[Green Tiger]

Wanting to figure out what went wrong in bringing Mopai to the West, it's best to examine who brought it here.

 

I outlined some shadey points regarding the original film makers (it's on my forum).

 

Interestingly- someone posted on my forum- some items from Kosta's FaceBook.

 

The following are Kosta's Own Words:

 

 

If you read Jim McMillan's book- it is chock full of name calling, racism, and bullying (cursing out a crippled man in a wheelchair). Once he smacked a neighbor's dog and paralysed it for a few days.

 

Read the book if you think I exaggerate.

 

Seeing how Kosta & McMillan both act in Public- "Post Mopai" - "- makes Me understand better- the mind frame of the WESTERNIZED MoPai Klan

 

I couldn't find the Facebook page you referenced, SotG. Could you provide a link? I think that is pretty significant. He provides a really nice response to anyone who speaks about mo pai practice with authority: "Show me your burn marks or shut up."

 

I'm pretty sure those marks could easily have come from a soldering iron, but still, at least someone is going to have to go through the trouble of burning himself with a soldering iron or a hot bic lighter to earn his mo pai cred.

[LeoViridis]

I've adopted 'Western MoPai' to differentiate between the MoPai who are and would be accepted as MoPai by the MoPai and those ( generally west of Java) who use the term MoPai to describe what they do but who would not be accepted as MoPai by 'the' real MoPai.

Western MoPai is a genuine thing with its adherents.

It is not however the same thing as the MoPai which is a Chinese clan with traditions and praxes, very much 'pre- internet' era ( but not so much now as the post 'John Chang' generation of born MoPai developed other interests with greater options than the 'old folks' ever had) active in Java and other settlements where Straits Chinese from the MoPai villages of China settled, mainly as traders.

To themselves Western MoPai players 'are' MoPai and no one will convince them otherwise.

To the MoPai they are not MoPai nor ever can be.

The MoPai is a closed clan system, no one who is not born into it may become part of it, ever.

Whatever MoPai is nowadays, bybthe very nature of chnge and development on its home turf, it is far and away different than it was way back when Jim and Kosta visited it.

John Chang wasn't "born into the Mo Pai clan", and neither was Jim, Kosta, their students or even Liao for that matter. What you say makes no sense whatsoever. Mo Pai is a school of Nei Gong with a set of techniques for progression through the system. If a westerner practices those techniques it doesn't make them any less real. That's the same as saying that a westerner can't practice Qi Gong, because they have to be born into it, or can't practice Buddhism, Taoism or Gong Fu, because they have to be born into it.

Edited June 21, 2014 by LeoViridis

[GrandmasterP]

You make a good point LeoViridis.

All those cultivations you mention can be taught and learnt, there's no question-marks about lineage, validity of what is being taught or tradition.

There are dojos, associations, grades, schools, the whole shebang.

One knows what one is getting and is welcome to associate with whichever cultivation one might be interested in.

Western MoPai isn't like that at all, no dojos, no associations, no acknowledged teachers, just some dudes posting about what they know and how they came know it.

 

Jim taught online, Kosta does, or did; his thang.

For the rest, to get a flavour of western MoPai we only need to look here and elsewhere online.

Edited June 20, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[SonOfTheGods]

https://el-gr.facebook.com/kostas.danaos.3

[dawei]

John Chang wasn't "born into the Mo Pai clan", and neither was Jim, Kosta, their students or even Liao for that matter. What you say makes no sense whatsoever. Mo Pai is a school of Nei Gong with a set of techniques for progression through the system. If a westerner practices those techniques it doesn't make thm any less real. That's the same as saying that a westerner can't practicE Qi Gong, because they have to be born into it, or can't practicE Buddhism, Taoism or Gong Fu, because they have to be boRn into it.

 

I don't really disagree that much with the idea that creating a 'western' prefix to a certain group is maybe imposing an unnecessary distinction... but nobody was talking about being "born into the Mo Pai clan". I read back through and am not sure why your harping on that idea as your making up that idea.

 

GP only said "those accepted" and "adherents". So it seems it would be best not to dramatize too much another's words.

 

The same argument is made about philosophical and religious daoism; a western distinction. And Kirkland wrote what was Taoism in the western imagination as it appears to not be what it means in the east. And is a person who reads Mantak Chia in a book any less 'practicing' than one who learned from a student of his or who learned from MC himself.

 

The issue has nothing to do with being 'born into it'; it has to do with how are they claiming their practice is a "progression through the system"; who can really say the book is exactly the system in the proper and safe way? You can practice it but you may end up with hurting yourself or with cancer.

 

The two biggest arguments I've heard at this site for such labeling is that the system is closed to the west; so there are no official teachers of it to the west. And the Indonesian adherence posted here that they wished people would not post on Mo Pai... I hear it in passing and do not know the links.

 

I can certain agree to drop the 'westernizing' label but I don't really have a blind eye to the fact that not all practices of a system have the same proper foundation.

[thelerner]

John Chang wasn't "born into the Mo Pai clan", and neither was Jim, Kosta, their students or even Liao for that matter. What you say makes no sense whatsoever. Mo Pai is a school of Nei Gong with a set of techniques for progression through the system. If a westerner practices those techniques it doesn't make thm any less real. That's the same as saying that a westerner can't practicE Qi Gong, because they have to be born into it, or can't practicE Buddhism, Taoism or Gong Fu, because they have to be boRn into it.

Its not our rule, its Mo Pai's. There are many Qi Gong systems that are open and teach all. But John Chang was pretty clear in one of the online videos that Mo Pai was not to be taught to Westerners. There's a video where the announcer says (I'm paraphrasing) "he looks clearly frightened, the elders (spirits) sent him a strong message last night, not to teach any Westerners."

 

The sad fact is Jim (a nice and worthy guy) died an early death, and as far as I know John Chang did not make an attempt to heal him. I could be wrong, it'd be nice if I was. Could be the reason he didn't try to heal (not that any healer is 100%) might be due to Jim teaching Westerners against the will of the Elders, excommunicated'ish.

 

Such Spirit Elders are outside the paradigm for most of us, we tend to ignore them or consider the belief superstition. That might not always be wise. Having spent time last summer talking to people who consider the Hindu Gods as real as there mother and father, I'm more reserved on the subject then I used to be.