The "Official" Mo Pai & "Things You Might Not Know About Real Mo Pai" Thread

[Brian]

I honestly know little about Mo Pai beyond what I've learned here on TTB. I've asked this question before but I don't think the question was taken seriously -- perhaps you will?

 

What I want,to know is, what are the "practices" for Mo Pai up to level 2A or whatever is "known?" And what are the indicators that a level has been completed?

 

"For level X, the exercise is __________ and you'll know you are ready for level X+1 when ________."

[GrandmasterP]

I honestly know little about Mo Pai beyond what I've learned here on TTB. I've asked this question before but I don't think the question was taken seriously -- perhaps you will?

What I want,to know is, what are the "practices" for Mo Pai up to level 2A or whatever is "known?" And what are the indicators that a level has been completed?

"For level X, the exercise is __________ and you'll know you are ready for level X+1 when ________."

 

Your cheque clears.

[C T]

I heard it means "lineage" which is basically the same thing.

 

Mo = Mo Tzu

Pai = Lineage

 

Therefore

 

Mo Pai = Mo Tzu Lineage

 

 

That's what I always figured it meant.

Lineage is the umbrella term here -- within one lineage there could be any number of 'Pais'.

[SonOfTheGods]

I mean no offense, just stating what I believe to be true. I've tried probably 10-15 random systems before I got involved with Mo Pai and found none of them to do anything worth while. I tried hard to "believe" that I was doing something and got what I thought were some results after months of telling myself I would feel something or experience something. I got tired of it though. I realized that I was doing nothing but playing make believe mind games in my head. I wasn't getting anywhere even though I had tried my best to "believe" I was. That's what originally drew me to Mo Pai. My goals back then where a lot different than they are now, but the fact that I wanted something real hasn't changed. I was wore out and sick of never getting anywhere. Even though I didn't have any particular goal I knew I wanted something real that didn't require "believing" and Mo Pai stood out like a a light house from the endless sea of spiritual practices and systems.

 

Just know that when I say I think "everyone here is level zero" "just about everything is non-sense" etc. I'm not aiming insults at people or trying to offend them. I might offend people in doing so but that isn't my intention, nor do I have negative feelings or motives when I do so. That's just what I think based on my own experience. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

My dog had a bath, so being all wet, he got put in his kennel to dry.

 

The other dog- not yet bathe, was outside, staring at him through the bars of the cage.

 

I could hear them, mentally conversing- then arguing:

 

"You're in the cage!"

 

The other dog, stating his opinion:

 

"Nope, I see the bars- You're the one in the crate"

 

[KenBrace]

I honestly know little about Mo Pai beyond what I've learned here on TTB. I've asked this question before but I don't think the question was taken seriously -- perhaps you will?

 

What I want,to know is, what are the "practices" for Mo Pai up to level 2A or whatever is "known?" And what are the indicators that a level has been completed?

 

"For level X, the exercise is __________ and you'll know you are ready for level X+1 when ________."

Sure.

 

Level 1 = Sitting meditation. This meditation involves pin point, lazer like focus on the LDT while in a profoundly deep state of meditation where breathing, pulse, brain activity slow down to a point that would be considered "dead" in a hospital.

 

Sign 1 = Heat it the dan tien like intense fire. According to Jim it eventually reaches the point to where it actually becomes physically painful and almost makes it hard to continue training.

 

Sign 2 = Vibrating sensation that feels like you are in an earth quake.

 

Once you experience this second sensation you are ready for level 2a. However even though you should begin level 2a you still have to continue level 1 as well.

 

Level 2a = Standing exercise that helps to compress yang chi in the lower dan tien and open up the channels that lead to the palms of the hand.

 

After training levels 1 & 2a together for a while, you begin the core level 2 exercise which is a sitting meditation (known as level 2b).

 

Level 2b = Seated meditation involving the compression and cultivation of yang chi in the lower dan tien (I assume that this meditation is done in the same meditative state ad level 1).

 

 

Hope that helps!

[KenBrace]

Lineage is the umbrella term here -- within one lineage there could be any number of 'Pais'.

Could be. I'm not a scholar so I can't really say for sure.

[SonOfTheGods]

Sure.

 

Level 1 = Sitting meditation. This meditation involves pin point, lazer like focus on the LDT while in a profoundly deep state of meditation where breathing, pulse, brain activity slow down to a point that would be considered "dead" in a hospital.

 

The perceived goal of any level 1 meditation involving NeiGong would consist of Yi & Niwan- located within the 3rd Ventricle of the Brain. This focus of Meditation will energetically induce the Hypothalamic Limbic System. Eventually, the Hippocampus, & the Amygdala, too, per the BaiHui. End goal is Wuji.

[KenBrace]

 

The perceived goal of any level 1 meditation involving NeiGong would consist of Yi & Niwan- located within the 3rd Ventricle of the Brain. This focus of Meditation will energetically induce the Hypothalamic Limbic System. Eventually, the Hippocampus, & the Amygdala, too, per the BaiHui. End goal is Wuji.

"Any neigong system"?

 

There are only about 10 of those on Earth.

[GrandmasterP]

"Any neigong system"?

There are only about 10 of those on Earth.

 

List and references please Ken.

Who defines what is Nei Gong and how did they arrive at that mutual recognition of your 'about ten'?

 

[KenBrace]

List and references please Ken. Who defines what is Nei Gong and how did they arrive at that mutual recognition of your 'about ten'?

 

I define neigong as "Any practice that involves the evolution of the spirit through the cultivation of internal power and the fusion of Yin and Yang Qi"

 

So based on that definition and what was said in the Magus of Java (do I really have to go find that quote?) there are only around ten masters alive that have made it past the fusion of yin and yang in the lower dan tien so I assume that each of these masters practices their own system, hence there are only around 10 REAL neigong systems. That is according to my definition of neigong though. Most everything else is qigong I'd say.

[GrandmasterP]

Magus of Java came out in 2000 based on visits made to Java well prior to that year during the last years of the last century.

MoPai books on the market by Jim and Kosta are ancient history in publication terms.

It was an up- to- date list I was interested in.

Hoped that if there was such a list that you might have it Ken.

Apparently not.

No biggie.

Edited June 22, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[SonOfTheGods]

There are only about 10 of those on Earth.

 

"There are only about 10 of those on Earth" ®™©

 

Edited June 22, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[KenBrace]

Here's that quote btw...

 

 

"Yes,” he said. “I know that there are for sure two and I can sense eight more. I think that there are at least ten.”

-The Magus Of Java p93

[SonOfTheGods]

Here's that quote btw...

 

 

"Yes,” he said. “I know that there are for sure two and I can sense eight more. I think that there are at least ten.”

 

-The Magus Of Java p93

 

This is one of those rare times I wish I had extra money:

 

I think you're heart is the right place- but you got caught up in the MoPie hype.

 

If I had extra funds, I would meet you some place neutral- and show you some things.

 

I don't ever want to do the YouTube "proof videos" anymore.

 

But I am quite certain- you would see things quite a bit differently- and with your own eyes.

 

The irony is- when you got back and told your other forum mopie buddies over there- they still wouldn't believe you.

Edited June 22, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[bluefire]

I mean no offense, just stating what I believe to be true. I've tried probably 10-15 random systems before I got involved with Mo Pai and found none of them to do anything worth while. I tried hard to "believe" that I was doing something and got what I thought were some results after months of telling myself I would feel something or experience something. I got tired of it though. I realized that I was doing nothing but playing make believe mind games in my head. I wasn't getting anywhere even though I had tried my best to "believe" I was. That's what originally drew me to Mo Pai. My goals back then where a lot different than they are now, but the fact that I wanted something real hasn't changed. I was wore out and sick of never getting anywhere. Even though I didn't have any particular goal I knew I wanted something real that didn't require "believing" and Mo Pai stood out like a a light house from the endless sea of spiritual practices and systems.

 

Just know that when I say I think "everyone here is level zero" "just about everything is non-sense" etc. I'm not aiming insults at people or trying to offend them. I might offend people in doing so but that isn't my intention, nor do I have negative feelings or motives when I do so. That's just what I think based on my own experience. Maybe I'm wrong.

 

If none of the 10-15 random systems before has done anything worth while what has mo pai done so far for you? Any results you experienced which puts it above the other 10-15 you tried?

[GrandmasterP]

The Space Cadet's Panda forum is descending into a vehicle for one person's invective and foul mouthed abuse to such an extent that one has had concerns for his sanity.

Hence I've wished Ken well with his own forum.

Strikes me as a righteous dude does Ken.

Sincere and above all, polite.

We don't all 'have' to agree in order to get on together.

 

[dawei]

I define neigong as "Any practice that involves the evolution of the spirit through the cultivation of internal power and the fusion of Yin and Yang Qi"

 

Hopefully you will see that your defining in very narrowly... and then if you define a number following that narrow definition then 10 may be true... for that definition.

 

So based on that definition and what was said in the Magus of Java (do I really have to go find that quote?) there are only around ten masters alive that have made it past the fusion of yin and yang in the lower dan tien so I assume that each of these masters practices their own system, hence there are only around 10 REAL neigong systems. That is according to my definition of neigong though. Most everything else is qigong I'd say.

 

Neigong has been around for a long time and in various teachings. I posted a quick history in another post but one of the worst things we can do in regards to energy work is to see/set limitations on what it is and is not... it will always be much more than our minds can comprehend.

[KenBrace]

 

If none of the 10-15 random systems before has done anything worth while what has mo pai done so far for you? Any results you experienced which puts it above the other 10-15 you tried?

A meditation that produces real effects and doesn't require "believing" or "thinking you maybe felt something". Basically placebo vs uncontrolable effects. Exact opposite.

[KenBrace]

And something that requires strength to resist rather than "chi sensitivity. Again, the exact opposite. Basically we are talking about something that is real vs something that isn't.

[Ya Mu]

... one of the worst things we can do in regards to energy work is to see/set limitations on what it is and is not... it will always be much more than our minds can comprehend.

This cannot be emphasized enough!

[bluefire]

A meditation that produces real effects and doesn't require "believing" or "thinking you maybe felt something". Basically placebo vs uncontrolable effects. Exact opposite.

 

The listed signs heat, vibration & open channels don't sound unique to MP for me. Just with a search here in the forum for dantian heat or dantian vibration I get dozens of results not related to MP.

I don't really understand in what way MP is superior to any of the other systems with the same results from above.

From what I have seen here only the lower levels are accessible and the rest is closed. So why is a closed road superior to one where you don't know how far it will lead?

[KenBrace]

 

... it will always be much more than our minds can comprehend.

This cannot be emphasized enough!

For example: MP lvl 1

Edited June 22, 2014 by KenBrace

[KenBrace]

 

The listed signs heat, vibration & open channels don't sound unique to MP for me. Just with a search here in the forum for dantian heat or dantian vibration I get dozens of results not related to MP.

I don't really understand in what way MP is superior to any of the other systems with the same results from above.

From what I have seen here only the lower levels are accessible and the rest is closed. So why is a closed road superior to one where you don't know how far it will lead?

There is a difference between the "heat" and "vibrations" that most people think theu feel, and the real signs that are experienced in level one.

[LeoViridis]

I don't really disagree that much with the idea that creating a 'western' prefix to a certain group is maybe imposing an unnecessary distinction... but nobody was talking about being "born into the Mo Pai clan". I read back through and am not sure why your harping on that idea as your making up that idea.

 

GP only said "those accepted" and "adherents". So it seems it would be best not to dramatize too much another's words.

 

The same argument is made about philosophical and religious daoism; a western distinction. And Kirkland wrote what was Taoism in the western imagination as it appears to not be what it means in the east. And is a person who reads Mantak Chia in a book any less 'practicing' than one who learned from a student of his or who learned from MC himself.

 

The issue has nothing to do with being 'born into it'; it has to do with how are they claiming their practice is a "progression through the system"; who can really say the book is exactly the system in the proper and safe way? You can practice it but you may end up with hurting yourself or with cancer.

 

The two biggest arguments I've heard at this site for such labeling is that the system is closed to the west; so there are no official teachers of it to the west. And the Indonesian adherence posted here that they wished people would not post on Mo Pai... I hear it in passing and do not know the links.

 

I can certain agree to drop the 'westernizing' label but I don't really have a blind eye to the fact that not all practices of a system have the same proper foundation.

 

I don't think I was dramatizing anyone's words too much. I reread what GrandmasterP wrote, just in case, and he wrote that one has to be "born into it". I merely stated the fact that this seems very strange, given that neither Jim nor Kosta nor John Chang (or any of his students apparently) were "born into it". Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is a lineage, not a blood related family.

 

Regarding practice; there is no certainty of progression... But I believe it's better to try than to just give up.

About getting hurt or getting cancer... I hope this isn't one of those "Jim got cancer because he practiced wrong" or something...

[LeoViridis]

Its not our rule, its Mo Pai's. There are many Qi Gong systems that are open and teach all. But John Chang was pretty clear in one of the online videos that Mo Pai was not to be taught to Westerners. There's a video where the announcer says (I'm paraphrasing) "he looks clearly frightened, the elders (spirits) sent him a strong message last night, not to teach any Westerners."

 

The sad fact is Jim (a nice and worthy guy) died an early death, and as far as I know John Chang did not make an attempt to heal him. I could be wrong, it'd be nice if I was. Could be the reason he didn't try to heal (not that any healer is 100%) might be due to Jim teaching Westerners against the will of the Elders, excommunicated'ish.

 

Such Spirit Elders are outside the paradigm for most of us, we tend to ignore them or consider the belief superstition. That might not always be wise. Having spent time last summer talking to people who consider the Hindu Gods as real as there mother and father, I'm more reserved on the subject then I used to be.

 

Of course, it's their decision if they do not want to teach anyone outside their group. Nobody can blame them for it, it's their school after all. However, people are going to have interest regardless. They don't have to reply to anything, or speak to anyone, nobody is forcing them. If they wish to have their peace, let them. Are we somehow obstructing their peace by talking about Nei Gong, Mo Pai, and what we know? While they may not wish to share their techniques, and they don't have to do so, meditation is every human being's birthright. So I don't think anyone with an interest in Mo Pai is doing anything wrong.

 

Regarding Jim's cancer; Ken already answered that one.

 

I'm sure the Spirits of the Elders are real. But I don't think they will get angry at us or anyone else for meditating. Why would they?