The "Official" Mo Pai & "Things You Might Not Know About Real Mo Pai" Thread

[MooNiNite]

really, it makes me wonder why people arent so gaga over sifu Jiang and what he practices, because you can actually go be a student and learn from his lineage. its a cousin of mo pai, for chrissakes! a learnable one with teachers you can actually access!

 

it's completely different from mo pai though

[joeblast]

I certainly wouldnt go that far...if you'd like to point out actual differences that's one thing, but in the grand scheme of things the differences are relatively minor and you see jiang & crew doing many of the same lighting brush and newspaper on fire.

[SonOfTheGods]

-Going to Alpha level

-Compression of Qi in LDT @ Goat Stance

 

That's both MoPai levels in a nutshell

 

How many ways can someone do NeiGong?

 

Differing Dogma, but arriving at the same desired results= JinDan

[LeoViridis]

yeah, except, I've been the one articulating the why, whereas you and ken havent even come close.

 

 

now you're having trouble with reading comprehension also? how old are you, if you dont mind my asking?

Joe, I think I explained my stance pretty clearly, a couple of pages ago. Once I get my computer operation again, I may go more in-depth as to why I disagree with SOTG.

 

If you couldn't read my comments that's your problem. Age has little to do with it - you can be 15 and be a universal genius, or be 45 and be a universal moron, or vice-versa. I don't have any problem with reading comprehension, as far as I'm aware of, and I don't think I've mistaken anything SOTG said. I don't mind you asking for my age, but I'm not to keen on sharing my personal information publicaly.

Edited June 30, 2014 by LeoViridis

[LeoViridis]

That says it all then.

 

Should (you will) some day realize the folly of your ways- Email me.

 

Maybe maybe maybe- some day- We will eventually call each other brothers.

 

Dorian too.

 

I have no personal animosity towards either of you.

 

In case you've pointed that at me, as some posts ago you seemed to believe I was Dorian - I have no hate towards anyone here. Just a different opinion. Though I don't think you've done the right thing, posting Jim's book for free, and his lessons for anyone to see.

[LeoViridis]

-Going to Alpha level

-Compression of Qi in LDT @ Goat Stance

 

That's both MoPai levels in a nutshell

 

How many ways can someone do NeiGong?

 

Differing Dogma, but arriving at the same desired results= JinDan

I'd say theta and further, delta are by far far more efficient than alpha. Meditation in those stages are also far deeper.

 

Just my experience though.

Edited June 29, 2014 by LeoViridis

[LeoViridis]

there was no real evidence behind that assertion

 

I know. However, now I'm confused as to what is SOTG's stance regarding this. In the second post of the topic, he said;

 

72 MoPai Levels= Numerology The Number 72 is a Magickal number

 

As is 108 in Hinduism.

 

360 degrees in a circle

 

5 x 72 = 360

 

72 means "Complete" "Balanced" in Numerology.

 

5 Points on the Pentagram

 

Pentagram is the transit/path Venus makes

 

Venus = Lucifer- Morning Star

 

Cut an Apple in half and you will see the Pentagram

 

The "Forbidden Fruit" almost always attributed to an Apple

 

Adam's Apple

 

DaVinci's Man = Pentagram

 

72 Goetia Daemons/Howlings

 

You will NEVER learn/locate the infamous "occult/hidden" 72 Levels of MoPai because they simply DO NOT EXIST

 

But then seemed to agree with Tongkosong.

 

I apologize for bad quoting, I'm on my phone and it's kinda hard to do so from here.

[GrandmasterP]

Those 72 Levels in MoPai.

Might it not be 4 Levels with 18 stages in each Level?

There's an historical precedent.

Edited June 29, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[thelerner]

I know. However, now I'm confused as to what is SOTG's stance regarding this. In the second post of the topic, he said; But then seemed to agree with Tongkosong. I apologize for bad quoting, I'm on my phone and it's kinda hard to do so from here.

As discussed 26 pages ago, the gist of SoG's argument is that '72' is widely used in a number of systems to represent different things, often 'Completion'. Ie he postulated that 72 'levels' was not meant to be taken literally. Those misc. items were examples; they didn't have anything to do with Mo Pai, they were examples of how widely used 72 was.

 

Tonkosong, who seems as reliable a source as we have said "The 72 levels are referring to the number of xue dao(s) in our body." <actually I'm not sure what a xue dao is>

 

In my eyes he (SoG) wasn't sure, just throwing it out there as an educated guess. Seems he was right.

 

Its an example of how easy it is to miss fundamental meanings when your looking at a foreign system and don't have a live experienced teacher for feedback. It's a concept that be answered in a moment by an experienced teacher, but with Mo Pai, they simply aren't around.

[SonOfTheGods]

As discussed 26 pages ago, the gist of SoG's argument is that '72' is widely used in a number of systems to represent different things, often 'Completion'. Ie he postulated that 72 'levels' was not meant to be taken literally. Those misc. items were examples; they didn't have anything to do with Mo Pai, they were examples of how widely used 72 was.

 

Tonkosong, who seems as reliable a source as we have said "The 72 levels are referring to the number of xue dao(s) in our body." <actually I'm not sure what a xue dao is>

 

In my eyes he was wasn't sure, just throwing it out there as an educated guess. Seems he was right.

 

Its an example of how easy it is to miss fundamental meanings when your looking at a foreign system and don't have a live experienced teacher for feedback. It's a concept that be answered in a moment by an experienced teacher, but with Mo Pai, they simply aren't around.

 

Thanks man, because I wasn't going to explain it anymore.

 

It has become a game to them, now- to see who has the most forum endurance.

 

Actually, I am done on this thread- period.

 

BTW welcome back from vacation brother

[GrandmasterP]

Through extensive IP research and questioning via PM, I feel that Tongkosong is who/what he says he is.

 

On another forum I visit there's an Indonesian poster called dsbasuki who is a Silat player.

Here's a sample post of his...

http://sahabatsilat.com/forum/pencak-silat-general-forum/tong-kosong-nyaring-bunyinya/

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Regarding the number 72, warned of the 'Three Disasters' which can destroy an immortal, the Monkey King requests teachings from the Master:

 

When he heard this Sun Wukong's hair stood on end, and he kowtowed with the words, "I implore you, my
lord, to show pity and teach me how to avoid these three disasters. If you do I will be grateful to you for ever."

 

. . .

 

"Very well then," the Patriarch said, "which would you prefer to learn: the thirty−six heavenly transformations
or the seventy−two earthly ones?"
"Your disciple wants to get as much out of it as he can, so I would like to learn the seventy−two earthly ones."

(Downloadable version of Journey to the West, Chapter 2, p. 27 on chine-informations.com, Emphasis mine, ZYD. I cannot vouch for the copyright status of this version, but if you click on the link it downloads.)

 

So yes, there is a tradition in China involving the number 72 and the search for immortality. While Journey to the West is fiction, I think there is mention of this in Ge Hong's Baopuzi.

[thelerner]

 

 

I'm sure the Spirits of the Elders are real. But I don't think they will get angry at us or anyone else for meditating. Why would they?

I don't think they'd get angry at anyone for meditating. They might get angry if you were learning there ancestral system though without permission. If these are older gents, they might well have prejudices against Whites and the West who historically treated them quite poorly.

 

I was referring to a youtube, the one with the English guys commentary where he see's Chang in the morning and he's say's he clearly scared. Then says Chang will no longer teach to Westerners. <I forget the exact video, but it must have been part of the much longer film.

 

It strikes me that if the Spirits of the Elders (whatever they are) had told Chang not to teach Westerners it would be no big deal, but if he was scared and I take it that a man like Chang doesn't scare easily then they probably added a threat along with it. Don't teach Westerners or else kind of thing.

[MooNiNite]

honestly i think this system has been invented and reinvented to the point it doesn't matter

[KenBrace]

I'd say theta and further, delta are by far far more efficient than alpha. Meditation in those stages are also far deeper.

 

Just my experience though.

 

I'd say the ideal state would be lower than delta. Alpha is a joke. Not even light trance in my opinion.

[mace134]

I'm sick of this thread as well. It would suit me fine if the whole thing were hard deleted. Stuff like this really makes me want to go on a campiohng trip and get the hineck away from forums and the computer for a while.

For a person starting out (me) I think this thread has been very informative. You get different views which may not answer everything but at least points you in the right direction. Im talking about cultivation In general. Thl

Though im fascinated by John Chang I've no interest in his system

[Silent Answers]

Ken, I say this to help you. As long as the rest of "normal" society and the uncultivated annoy you, you won't be able to reach your goal. First step is acknowledging that I am you...that ignorant guy, that's you too...that asshole so consumed by illusion, that's you...John Chang? That's you too.

 

This is the fundamental concept of anything on the path. Enjoy life among the leaves and the roots..but make your home in the trunk.

[LeoViridis]

As discussed 26 pages ago, the gist of SoG's argument is that '72' is widely used in a number of systems to represent different things, often 'Completion'. Ie he postulated that 72 'levels' was not meant to be taken literally. Those misc. items were examples; they didn't have anything to do with Mo Pai, they were examples of how widely used 72 was.

 

Tonkosong, who seems as reliable a source as we have said "The 72 levels are referring to the number of xue dao(s) in our body."

 

In my eyes he (SoG) wasn't sure, just throwing it out there as an educated guess. Seems he was right.

 

Its an example of how easy it is to miss fundamental meanings when your looking at a foreign system and don't have a live experienced teacher for feedback. It's a concept that be answered in a moment by an experienced teacher, but with Mo Pai, they simply aren't around.

 

Xue Dao are small energy centers in the body, if I'm not mistaken. As I've said some pages earlier, there may be some significance to the number 72 as it relates to the body and energetics. I didn't agree with SOTG's ideas of it exactly though.

[allinone]

Xue Dao are small energy centers in the body, if I'm not mistaken. As I've said some pages earlier, there may be some significance to the number 72 as it relates to the body and energetics. I didn't agree with SOTG's ideas of it exactly though.

 

But 72 still can mean virgins. But of course not literally.

 

Hindu texts, Buddhist sutras, Bible, New Age etc are filled with hidden meanings of the way. The more you advange on your path the more will get revealed.

 

Even in lineages if there isn't a certain sign or omen then master won't tell you a higher system because you aren't ready.

 

Either case i need to start from purifying from myself then teacher comes. Its a metaphor. That teacher is within you.

[allinone]

One thing is certain that at the beginning everything is possible.

 

Can't image the suffering after the wakeup call.

 

Bright side is this is the correct path, dissolving illusions and wrong thinking and approach to things

Edited June 30, 2014 by allinone

[GrandmasterP]

That 72 'virgins' in the Koran can just as easily be translated as 72 'raisins' (fact).

'Be careful of what you wish for' is always wise advice where there is doubt.

Edited June 30, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[allinone]

I think 72 virgins is better because it will attract more followers.

 

it also could hint for female energies.

 

While these are promised in Heaven that will hint upper dantien.

Edited June 30, 2014 by allinone

[GrandmasterP]

Absolutely.

Every product that hopes to sell needs a USP ( Unique Selling Point).

Edited June 30, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[GrandmasterP]

 

There is doubt aplenty on this thread along with claim and counterclaim.

It's all very polite though and that's almost a first for a MoPai thread on TTB so kudos to everyone who has posted here so far.

The only MoPai text that all parties are agreed is valid is the one from Jim now on SoTg's useful site.

We don't know if our friend from Indonesia is who or what he claims to be nor has he posted anything that might support his position.

Saying...

" I am this so DON'T do that!"

is not evidence, it's a post.

Nothing wrong with the post but nevertheless we can't reasonably treat with it as we've not the documentary evidence to guide our thoughts one way or the other.

Anyone who wishes to see and discuss the ONLY published information on MoPai levels can do so at SOTG's site.

There is factual, textual, tangible evidence, we can see it and discuss it for what it contains.

Whether or not it 'should' be available or not is a moot point because the information IS available.

The cat being now out of the bag, all can discuss the cat, or not; as they see fit.

Shouting "Go away cat!" at a cat never works.

The same applies to Jim's text on SoTG's forum, it is there, we can see it.

Job done and 'well done' to SoTG for publishing it.

Edited by GrandmasterP, Today, 02:37 PM.

Edited June 30, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[joeblast]

right, eyes closed tightly shut. *shrugs* I tried, I just hope I dont see the "help" thread.