The "Official" Mo Pai & "Things You Might Not Know About Real Mo Pai" Thread

[KenBrace]

Ken, I say this to help you. As long as the rest of "normal" society and the uncultivated annoy you, you won't be able to reach your goal. First step is acknowledging that I am you...that ignorant guy, that's you too...that asshole so consumed by illusion, that's you...John Chang? That's you too.

 

This is the fundamental concept of anything on the path. Enjoy life among the leaves and the roots..but make your home in the trunk.

Indeed, non-duality is a fundamental concept of our existence. It does do any good to help the fact that everyone one of us is heading straight for hell hole after our death though.

 

And society does "annoy" me so much as it saddens me. I don't know for sure what happens after death but finding out and doing something about it should be everyone's top priority. I won't be completely sure until I experience things for myself, but I do trust what Chang and the Mo Pai teach and if the stories he told, Jim told, and Kosta told are true then we're all heading straight for a nightmare after death. In my mind, this is most likely what's true. That being said it deeply saddens me when I look around at all the people around me. My family and people I care about especially. Pretty much everyone in society falls under one of three categories in my experience. Either they couldn't care less and are only concerned with pleasure and entertaining themselves till death, they hold a faith based view of the afterlife and leave it at that, or they hold to a strict, dogmatic, atheistic world view and absolutely will not accept any other ideas than that they turn into dirt. No one seems to wake up and actually care. Such a crying shame.

[GrandmasterP]

That's quite a gloomy view Ken and not supported by the MoPai literature 'out there'.

Think about it.

' John Chang's' teacher in spirit chatted to John Chang.

The teacher wasn't in some awful place.

He was, and possibly still is ( unless he's decided to reincarnate) in 'summerland' or 'heaven' or ' western paradise' or ' call it whatever you like'.

The place we continue to when we leave this body is as pleasant, or unpleasant; as we have built it to be during our time on this side of life.

Even the absolute stinkers from this side of life have the opportunity to reflect, learn and improve prior to either settling down over there or coming back for another go on the roundabout 'down' here.

The only 'punishment' anyone has is self recrimination and that's a starting point for improvement.

Are you maybe just a tad depressed Ken?

You come across as being less than happy.

Maybe good to talk to someone real rather than here online.

Edited June 30, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[aboo]

I think tongsokong made the most interesting contribution, that the teaching instructions from Jim are not correct and appear to be invalid MoPai. Therefore, the only question I'd have for Ken is, are you even practicing MoPai? and, as it seems the ancestors of MoPai don't appear to want westerners studying it at all, isn't the most respectful thing to adhere to their wish? Therefore, it may be the case that SOTG has done a service to create a thread which may have brought the above points to light. Of course, I may be mistaken in assuming the above, that's just what stood out in the thread for me personally.

Edited June 30, 2014 by aboo

[SonOfTheGods]

There is doubt aplenty on this thread along with claim and counterclaim.

It's all very polite though and that's almost a first for a MoPai thread on TTB so kudos to everyone who has posted here so far.

The only MoPai text that all parties are agreed is valid is the one from Jim now on SoTg's useful site.

We don't know if our friend from Indonesia is who or what he claims to be nor has he posted anything that might support his position.

Saying...

" I am this so DON'T do that!"

is not evidence, it's a post.

Nothing wrong with the post but nevertheless we can't reasonably treat with it as we've not the documentary evidence to guide our thoughts one way or the other.

Anyone who wishes to see and discuss the ONLY published information on MoPai levels can do so at SOTG's site.

There is factual, textual, tangible evidence, we can see it and discuss it for what it contains.

Whether or not it 'should' be available or not is a moot point because the information IS available.

The cat being now out of the bag, all can discuss the cat, or not; as they see fit.

Shouting "Go away cat!" at a cat never works.

The same applies to Jim's text on SoTG's forum, it is there, we can see it.

Job done and 'well done' to SoTG for publishing it.

Edited by GrandmasterP, Today, 02:37 PM.

 

That is my closure for this thread.^

 

Edited July 1, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[MooNiNite]

lots of arguing about things unrelated to mo pai,

 

when ppl dont have the answers they have to throw an ego around.

 

Anyone know why the dan tien becomes vulnerable to rupture?

"

When Kostas was asked he said he did not know, JC said "the foundation is lost."

 

What could the foundation be? may be perineum..

[silent thunder]

That 72 'virgins' in the Koran can just as easily be translated as 72 'raisins' (fact).

'Be careful of what you wish for' is always wise advice where there is doubt.

funniest thing about the 72 virgins to me is.... they never specify what gender they are...

[joeblast]

lots of arguing about things unrelated to mo pai,

 

when ppl dont have the answers they have to throw an ego around.

 

Anyone know why the dan tien becomes vulnerable to rupture?

"

When Kostas was asked he said he did not know, JC said "the foundation is lost."

 

What could the foundation be? may be perineum..

a star has an analogous energybalance, when that balance is interrupted, e.g. it runs out of its fuel source, gravity overwhelms it.

 

dantien has a matrixed series of energy inputs, as dantien builds, the dynamics of the inputs get stronger...

 

like a star, if the dynamics are very strong (i.e. above chandrasekhar limit ) then significant loss of fuel source triggers a collapse in the energy dynamic, resulting in either a new fuel primary fuel cycle or at the end of the range, a supernova, where stars are concerned.

 

below the chandrasekhar limit, like an uncultivated dantien, this loss of energy dynamic doesnt explode, analogously, things that would otherwise seriously injure a cultivated dantien will not do major and immediate harm.

 

that's not to say the dantien will explode physically, but there will definitely be energetic feedbacks which distort and harm the energy system.

 

the more cultivated your dantien is, the more potential harm you can do yourself, and below a certain threshold of dantien potential, you most likely will not even notice if there is harm.

[KenBrace]

That's quite a gloomy view Ken and not supported by the MoPai literature 'out there'.

Think about it.

' John Chang's' teacher in spirit chatted to John Chang.

The teacher wasn't in some awful place.

He was, and possibly still is ( unless he's decided to reincarnate) in 'summerland' or 'heaven' or ' western paradise' or ' call it whatever you like'.

The place we continue to when we leave this body is as pleasant, or unpleasant; as we have built it to be during our time on this side of life.

Even the absolute stinkers from this side of life have the opportunity to reflect, learn and improve prior to either settling down over there or coming back for another go on the roundabout 'down' here.

The only 'punishment' anyone has is self recrimination and that's a starting point for improvement.

Are you maybe just a tad depressed Ken?

You come across as being less than happy.

Maybe good to talk to someone real rather than here online.

Yes. I'd say Liao was in "heaven" because he was a level 30+ master. He retained full consciousness, individuality, and freewill after death. That's not the case for almost everyone else. Unless you reach a certain level of energetic development you're going to loose all yang essense and become a souless, empty, yin spirit that get's reincarnated. That's hell in my opinion.

[Jetsun]

Unless you reach a certain level of energetic development you're going to loose all yang essense and become a souless, empty, yin spirit that get's reincarnated. That's hell in my opinion.

Why do you think this is the truth?

 

I have no pre life memory so it could be, but why are you so convinced? This isn't what most other people who have such memories say and most other spiritual systems say.

[dawei]

If TaoBums allows- I can post MoPai Levels 1 & 2 in my PPF here.

 

If not- just register and check it out.

 

Let's keep it off this site. You've setup your own forum and obviously we don't control that.

 

 

There is too much history of staff discussion, debate, and potential decision making which I am not aware of... So the simple answer for now is to not post it here.

 

Thanks.

[GrandmasterP]

Yes. I'd say Liao was in "heaven" because he was a level 30+ master. He retained full consciousness, individuality, and freewill after death. That's not the case for almost everyone else. Unless you reach a certain level of energetic development you're going to loose all yang essense and become a souless, empty, yin spirit that get's reincarnated. That's hell in my opinion.

 

Our Pure Land cousins attain to Western Paradise simply by cultivating Nembutsu.

That's it. Anybody can do that and IMO it's good 'insurance'.

Spiritualists all get to summerland 'like it or not'.

No cultivation required, far as we're concerned everyone gets to summerland and carries on learning.

Onwards and upwards.

They do say there's walled off compounds up there so that the fundie Christians , Moslems and suchlike 'chosen people' can believe they're the only ones who've 'made it'.

Maybe there's a special compound for MoPai folks.

Thing is Ken, if only Level 30+ MoPai dudes can make the grade then everyone else is screwed because the MoPai don't recognise anybody but MoPai 'as' MoPai.

Seems a bit off for some westerner to cultivate MoPai for years following one of the systems 'leaked' to the west, do really well at it and then arrive in the afterlife only to be told...

" Feck off, you're neither Chinese nor a MoPai member so you aint coming in."

I doubt that's going to happen though.

There's room for all on the other side of life.

Where else would we go?

"Hell" is just a boogie to frighten the gullible into putting more money into the collection box and keep the priests et al in business.

[thelerner]

Death, Dying and Next is worthy of its own thread. I'll start it as a new Topic, though I'm sure we've circled it a time or two before.

[Silent Answers]

a star has an analogous energybalance, when that balance is interrupted, e.g. it runs out of its fuel source, gravity overwhelms it.

 

dantien has a matrixed series of energy inputs, as dantien builds, the dynamics of the inputs get stronger...

 

like a star, if the dynamics are very strong (i.e. above chandrasekhar limit ) then significant loss of fuel source triggers a collapse in the energy dynamic, resulting in either a new fuel primary fuel cycle or at the end of the range, a supernova, where stars are concerned.

 

below the chandrasekhar limit, like an uncultivated dantien, this loss of energy dynamic doesnt explode, analogously, things that would otherwise seriously injure a cultivated dantien will not do major and immediate harm.

 

that's not to say the dantien will explode physically, but there will definitely be energetic feedbacks which distort and harm the energy system.

 

the more cultivated your dantien is, the more potential harm you can do yourself, and below a certain threshold of dantien potential, you most likely will not even notice if there is harm.

Black holes.. Drain or gain?

Edited July 1, 2014 by Silent Answers

[joeblast]

Chang says the same thing. Not in those exact words but the way he describes spirits is the same. That's the entire idea and point behind the Mo Pai system. To retain true consciousness after death and break free from reincarnation. This isn't something MPG made up.

another mistranslation, that of the "searching for the borderline state in between waking and sleep." bad idea to seize upon this concept. sure jc was just trying to give a relative description, but it is an equivalence too far - any and all of these practices should first and foremost be practices in awareness. if you lose sight of that, then "depth" is murky. as abridged as the descriptions had been made, had the abridgements been very judiciously made they might have passed muster - but the inclusion of this description is perhaps the biggest facepalm in the entire "instruction set."

 

the seizing upon this point of view is mpg's. you forget there are many people here who have been here on this forum a lot longer than you have and have seen points of view tossed around many a time - it was why, what was his last moniker invention, bluebird? stuck out like a sore thumb like he wasnt even trying to hide the fact and got called out pretty quickly on it.

 

things like this I categorize under "fundamental misunderstandings." similarity is not congruence, sometimes it is of no consequence, and sometimes it is.

 

Black holes.. Drain or gain?

I dont see where the second law is being violated little ot, I was just making a short analogy, but make a thread somewhere if you like!

[KenBrace]

another mistranslation, that of the "searching for the borderline state in between waking and sleep." bad idea to seize upon this concept. sure jc was just trying to give a relative description, but it is an equivalence too far - any and all of these practices should first and foremost be practices in awareness. if you lose sight of that, then "depth" is murky. as abridged as the descriptions had been made, had the abridgements been very judiciously made they might have passed muster - but the inclusion of this description is perhaps the biggest facepalm in the entire "instruction set."

 

the seizing upon this point of view is mpg's. you forget there are many people here who have been here on this forum a lot longer than you have and have seen points of view tossed around many a time - it was why, what was his last moniker invention, bluebird? stuck out like a sore thumb like he wasnt even trying to hide the fact and got called out pretty quickly on it.

 

things like this I categorize under "fundamental misunderstandings." similarity is not congruence, sometimes it is of no consequence, and sometimes it is.

 

I dont see where the second law is being violated little ot, I was just making a short analogy, but make a thread somewhere if you like!

 

No joeblast. It's not that complicated. If you take what is said in the Magus of Java at face value and don't force the interpretation like you are doing, then it is quite obvious that what Chang and Kosta say agree with what MPG says.

[joeblast]

so what are you going to do if after a second year of attempting level 1 you are still no further than you are now after a year of attempt? gonna go for three? with serious effort and good instruction this shouldnt have taken you more than 3-6 months. especially if you have school vacations for the whole summer still.

 

too many people are taking what I say as inflammatory - so I'll just stop, you're only going to find an excuse for the point of view to be perceived as correct no matter how many holes I shoot in some of the concepts. you just say "well, if you ignore those holes, it all still works"....ugh, I've gotten that tactic for years "debating" people on AGW that dont quite get how much statistics was abused to make the assertion. the religious fervor is just the same - and the results, we can probably make some correlations there too.

[KenBrace]

so what are you going to do if after a second year of attempting level 1 you are still no further than you are now after a year of attempt? gonna go for three? with serious effort and good instruction this shouldnt have taken you more than 3-6 months. especially if you have school vacations for the whole summer still.

 

too many people are taking what I say as inflammatory - so I'll just stop, you're only going to find an excuse for the point of view to be perceived as correct no matter how many holes I shoot in some of the concepts. you just say "well, if you ignore those holes, it all still works"....ugh, I've gotten that tactic for years "debating" people on AGW that dont quite get how much statistics was abused to make the assertion. the religious fervor is just the same - and the results, we can probably make some correlations there too.

 

I've only really training correctly for about 6 months and even then I haven't been able to train consistently the entire time. The longer I go though, the easier I'm albe to go deeper in meditation. The deeper I go, the stranger this start getting. Once I get an EEG I'm going to measure my brain waves while in the deepest states that I'm currently able to achieve to see exactly how deep I am. I've been training off and on for 6 months and I haven't been disappointed yet. I doubt that after 2 years I will still be in the same position I am now.

[flowing hands]

I looked at level 1&2 on SOTG's site and these are really very basic levels. I can't really see anything to get excited about. Cultivating energy through meditation has great limitations and is the beginner level. Mo Pai is just another system of energy cultivation there are many. John Chang has been developing his yang qi so he can influence material, but his yin qi is weak. I have been cultivating my yin qi, so my power resides in the spirit world and not so strongly in the material world. One cannot cultivate both to a high level at one time. Only when one becomes Immortal does one posses both. Ie one who has powerful yang qi cannot control the spirit world even though they can set alight paper etc.

[KenBrace]

I looked at level 1&2 on SOTG's site and these are really very basic levels. I can't really see anything to get excited about. Cultivating energy through meditation has great limitations and is the beginner level. Mo Pai is just another system of energy cultivation there are many. John Chang has been developing his yang qi so he can influence material, but his yin qi is weak. I have been cultivating my yin qi, so my power resides in the spirit world and not so strongly in the material world. One cannot cultivate both to a high level at one time. Only when one becomes Immortal does one posses both. Ie one who has powerful yang qi cannot control the spirit world even though they can set alight paper etc.

 

You're sure right about there being many. There aren't many real one's that actually get you somewhere meaningful though.

Edited July 1, 2014 by KenBrace

[BaguaKicksAss]

I looked at level 1&2 on SOTG's site and these are really very basic levels. I can't really see anything to get excited about. Cultivating energy through meditation has great limitations and is the beginner level. Mo Pai is just another system of energy cultivation there are many. John Chang has been developing his yang qi so he can influence material, but his yin qi is weak. I have been cultivating my yin qi, so my power resides in the spirit world and not so strongly in the material world. One cannot cultivate both to a high level at one time. Only when one becomes Immortal does one posses both. Ie one who has powerful yang qi cannot control the spirit world even though they can set alight paper etc.

 

Why is it that one can't cultivate both to a strong degree at the same time? Such as yin one day, and yang the next... Do they just mesh together or something?

[KenBrace]

I looked at level 1&2 on SOTG's site and these are really very basic levels. I can't really see anything to get excited about. Cultivating energy through meditation has great limitations and is the beginner level. Mo Pai is just another system of energy cultivation there are many. John Chang has been developing his yang qi so he can influence material, but his yin qi is weak. I have been cultivating my yin qi, so my power resides in the spirit world and not so strongly in the material world. One cannot cultivate both to a high level at one time. Only when one becomes Immortal does one posses both. Ie one who has powerful yang qi cannot control the spirit world even though they can set alight paper etc.

 

I agree with Tongkosong as far as Jim missing a few points. He actually somewhat missed the most important part.

[soaring crane]

You're sure right about there being many. There aren't many real one's that actually get you somewhere meaningful though.

 

I'd like to pose a very blunt question to you, Ken: How far have you gotten?

[flowing hands]

 

Why is it that one can't cultivate both to a strong degree at the same time? Such as yin one day, and yang the next... Do they just mesh together or something?

Well in essence one can cultivate both and one does, but then to be really powerful in one or other you have to specialize. Advanced cultivation is extremely tiring and altering of the body over time. It is advised not to over strain the body by doing too much and trying to cultivate both would be very over strenuouos.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Well in essence one can cultivate both and one does, but then to be really powerful in one or other you have to specialize. Advanced cultivation is extremely tiring and altering of the body over time. It is advised not to over strain the body by doing too much and trying to cultivate both would be very over strenuouos.

 

That makes perfect sense, thank you .

[KenBrace]

I'd like to pose a very blunt question to you, Ken: How far have you gotten?

 

I've gotten a meditation that gives correct instructions and has been leading exactly where it says it will. I've only been at it the correct way for about 6 months though so I don't have long term experience. I'm doing the same mediation as MPG so you might want to ask him to see exactly where it leads after a few years of practice as opposed to 6 months.

Edited July 1, 2014 by KenBrace