The "Official" Mo Pai & "Things You Might Not Know About Real Mo Pai" Thread

[LeoViridis]

Mopai is closed unless you are accepted by John Chang. You may practice level 1 but you won't be able to progress much further than that. Jim made up all the "signs" that supposedly one can feel upon completion of level 1, presumably to sell his book and to start his own school. In reality, there are no signs. Progress can only be measured by a person like John Chang.

 

I don't think John Chang will be accepting anyone anytime soon, but that doesn't mean that one simply needs to give up. Sure, one can practice Level 1 and let karma and fate guide him after that... In other words, crossing the first bridge before worrying about the next one.

 

Regarding the signs; I'm not sure I see the reason Jim would make them up. As far as I'm aware, Jim said there were two signs of progression, but didn't tell his students what they were, in order for them to experience it for themselves. That is how I've heard.

[LeoViridis]

I have some Screen Captures From Kosta's Bulletin Board on My Forum.

 

I'm not posting them on this thread though.

 

Caveat Emptor:

 

Anyone who uses "The Magus Of Java" as their Bible should carefully re-examine the author of such an "instruction manual".

 

If you think MoPai is YOUR ticket off the reincarnation hamster wheel- I bid you "many happy returns!"

 

That is like Ad Hominem. Kosta's character isn't relevant to what he had to teach or what was taught to him.

[LeoViridis]

This is one of those rare times I wish I had extra money:

 

I think you're heart is the right place- but you got caught up in the MoPie hype.

 

If I had extra funds, I would meet you some place neutral- and show you some things.

 

I don't ever want to do the YouTube "proof videos" anymore.

 

But I am quite certain- you would see things quite a bit differently- and with your own eyes.

 

The irony is- when you got back and told your other forum mopie buddies over there- they still wouldn't believe you.

 

Allow me ask then - what it is you are claiming to be capable of?

[bluefire]

There is a difference between the "heat" and "vibrations" that most people think theu feel, and the real signs that are experienced in level one.

 

How do you know that? Have you experienced both (MP heat/vibration vs non MP) or is only JC able to detect these signs? What is the basis for this claim?

[SonOfTheGods]

"Fusing Yin/Yang" is something that happens to anyone who practices diligently for awhile.

 

In MoPai- that's "the big deal"

 

Anyone who has researched or even practiced- understands this.

 

It is only a "buzz word" , this "Fusing Yin/Yang" in MoPai circles.

 

The only true way, to Immortality- is put perfectly by J. A. Johnson:

 

According to ancient Daoist teachig, if a disciple
could gather unite and transform the powerful
spiritual energies of the Yang Heaven (Metal
Element - Hun - Male) with the Yin Earth (Wood
Element -Po - Female), along with the powerful
energies of the Sun (Yang - Heart - Middle Dantian)
and the Moon (Yin - Kidneys - Lower Dantian) into
one place, he could then "open" the Mysterious
Gate (also known as "Zuqiao" the "Ancestral
Cavity"). After spending some quiet time in cultivation
and meditation practice, once the disciple
could close his eyes, look within, and observe the
radiant white light of his True Vitality (Yuan Qi)
appearing within his Mysterious Gate, he could
therr proceed to the next set of special training
needed to cultivate the "True Alchemical Agent."

 

Then it continues on.

 

That is the correct path.

 

The point being- there's no storing of Yin in Perneium, which isn't even possible because it isn't a capacitor like the LDT is.

Edited June 22, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[SonOfTheGods]

Also, something else.

 

Being as the West Side Mo-tzu Klan is so well versed in all things Nei Kung- and believes everything else is placebo:

 

Let's reference some Acupuncture Charts and Meridian points so we can figure out, just exactly how, MoPai confuses & "fuses yinyang".

 

Using Physics, Biology, TCM & General Science- let's get down to business, shall we?

 

Oh, and don't bother quoting "The Magus Of Java" because it means nothing to people who desire serious discussion, not bible quotes.

 

Rather, Utilize all your Years of Experience and Research

 

"Fusing Yin/Yang" is something that happens to anyone who practices diligently for awhile.

 

In MoPai- that's "the big deal"

 

Anyone who has researched or even practiced- understands this.

 

It is only a "buzz word" , this "Fusing Yin/Yang" in MoPai circles.

 

The only true way, to Immortality- is put perfectly by J. A. Johnson:

 

 

Then it continues on.

 

That is the correct path.

 

The point being- there's no storing of Yin in Perneium, which isn't even possible because it isn't a capacitor like the LDT is.

Edited June 22, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[KenBrace]

 

How do you know that? Have you experienced both (MP heat/vibration vs non MP) or is only JC able to detect these signs? What is the basis for this claim?

The only thing I felt was placebo in my LDT. After enough mind games I got to the point where I was sure I was clearly feeling heat. I started to realize though that it wasn't the same thing as described by Jim and others. Once I stopped trying to feel it, it naturally went away. When most people say that they feel and vibrations (at one point I thought I was starting to feel that too). I haven't even gone as deep in meditation as is described by John Chang in TMoJ but what I experience has already been 10x more real and obvious than the placebo stuff. I'm not talking about the progress signs. I'm talking about similar but different sensations and feeling that occur as I start to getting closer to the state between waking and sleeping. I'm not near as deep as I could be and based on that I can only imagine what it would be like to be in that state. 1,000x more real than "chi balls" "chi sensitivity" sort of stuff. Not even remotely comparable.

[SonOfTheGods]

Also, something else.

 

Being as the West Side Mo-tzu Klan is so well versed in all things Nei Kung- and believes everything else is placebo:

 

Let's reference some Acupuncture Charts and Meridian points so we can figure out, just exactly how, MoPai confuses & "fuses yinyang".

 

Using Physics, Biology, TCM & General Science- let's get down to business, shall we?

 

Oh, and don't bother quoting "The Magus Of Java" because it means nothing to people who desire serious discussion, not bible quotes.

 

Rather, Utilize all your Years of Experience and Research

 

 

Daoist Nei Gong: By Damien Mitchell

 

_______

 

For more reasons why Qi can not be confined solely to the LDT per MoPai theorists:

 

Reference:

Yin Qiao Mai, Yang Qiao Mai

 

Also:

Dai Mai

Edited June 22, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[bluefire]

The only thing I felt was placebo in my LDT. After enough mind games I got to the point where I was sure I was clearly feeling heat. I started to realize though that it wasn't the same thing as described by Jim and others. Once I stopped trying to feel it, it naturally went away. When most people say that they feel and vibrations (at one point I thought I was starting to feel that too). I haven't even gone as deep in meditation as is described by John Chang in TMoJ but what I experience has already been 10x more real and obvious than the placebo stuff. I'm not talking about the progress signs. I'm talking about similar but different sensations and feeling that occur as I start to getting closer to the state between waking and sleeping. I'm not near as deep as I could be and based on that I can only imagine what it would be like to be in that state. 1,000x more real than "chi balls" "chi sensitivity" sort of stuff. Not even remotely comparable.

 

Ok, what is the difference between how your practice with the ldt was before and is now?

 

I just picked randomly the Daoist Nei Gong book:

 

The heat of Jing is a very intense heat that feels much like you

have a fresh hot water bottle pressed against your body. A few minutes

of intense Jing movement will result in your body being drenched in

sweat. Students who have been to this stage in my classes have been

shocked at how wet they find their clothes have become after only a

short time moving their Jing through internal practices.

 

Does this sound like placebo heat?

[KenBrace]

 

Ok, what is the difference between how your practice with the ldt was before and is now?

 

I just picked randomly the Daoist Nei Gong book:

 

 

Does this sound like placebo heat?

No. And the quote you gave could be truth. The system that is taught in the book might be valid. However I haven't had much luck delving into these random systems so I am skeptical if what was written was true.

 

I have finally found something that is real and that leads to my greatest desire so I have no interest in anything else. I am also very skeptical of most people that claim to feel and experience stuff because I know that at one time I would have sounded exactly like them (and I'd have been saying placebo BS). Yet I would have been confident in my experiences. It wasn't until I took a big step back that I realized ehat was really going on.

 

Best of luck to you and I hope that all of you are practicing valid systems and accomplishing your goals (though I personally doubt it).

[Brian]

Your enthusiasm for your system is commendable, KenBrace. I wish you the best as well.

[KenBrace]

Your enthusiasm for your system is commendable, KenBrace. I wish you the best as well.

Thanks!

[SonOfTheGods]

.

Edited June 23, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[LeoViridis]

"Fusing Yin/Yang" is something that happens to anyone who practices diligently for awhile.

 

In MoPai- that's "the big deal"

 

Anyone who has researched or even practiced- understands this.

 

It is only a "buzz word" , this "Fusing Yin/Yang" in MoPai circles.

 

The only true way, to Immortality- is put perfectly by J. A. Johnson:

 

 

Then it continues on.

 

That is the correct path.

 

The point being- there's no storing of Yin in Perneium, which isn't even possible because it isn't a capacitor like the LDT is.

 

Daoist Nei Gong: By Damien Mitchell

 

_______

 

For more reasons why Qi can not be confined solely to the LDT per MoPai theorists:

 

Reference:

Yin Qiao Mai, Yang Qiao Mai

 

Also:

Dai Mai

 

You seem to be very confident in yourself... That's fine I guess.

 

May I ask something though?

Why should anyone regard your opinion higher than the opinion of the master of the lineage they are interested in?

[Brian]

That truly is an interesting question, LeoViridis. Indeed it is.

[Green Tiger]

I've tried probably 10-15 random systems before I got involved with Mo Pai and found none of them to do anything worth while.

 

 

Level 1 = Sitting meditation. This meditation involves pin point, lazer like focus on the LDT while in a profoundly deep state of meditation where breathing, pulse, brain activity slow down to a point that would be considered "dead" in a hospital.

 

Sign 1 = Heat it the dan tien like intense fire. According to Jim it eventually reaches the point to where it actually becomes physically painful and almost makes it hard to continue training.

 

Sign 2 = Vibrating sensation that feels like you are in an earth quake.

 

Once you experience this second sensation you are ready for level 2a. However even though you should begin level 2a you still have to continue level 1 as well.

 

Level 2a = Standing exercise that helps to compress yang chi in the lower dan tien and open up the channels that lead to the palms of the hand.

 

After training levels 1 & 2a together for a while, you begin the core level 2 exercise which is a sitting meditation (known as level 2b).

 

Level 2b = Seated meditation involving the compression and cultivation of yang chi in the lower dan tien (I assume that this meditation is done in the same meditative state ad level 1).

 

What would you say are the key differences in the Mo Pai practices compared to the 10-15 'random' practices you tried prior?

 

Here's that quote btw...

 

 

"Yes,” he said. “I know that there are for sure two and I can sense eight more. I think that there are at least ten.”

 

-The Magus Of Java p93

 

I believe that was a geographically limited assessment to southeast Asia. You notice he also says, "I think," indicating he is not 100% certain. You seem way more confident in his estimate than even he does.

 

No. And the quote you gave could be truth. The system that is taught in the book might be valid. However I haven't had much luck delving into these random systems so I am skeptical if what was written was true.

 

I have finally found something that is real and that leads to my greatest desire so I have no interest in anything else. I am also very skeptical of most people that claim to feel and experience stuff because I know that at one time I would have sounded exactly like them (and I'd have been saying placebo BS). Yet I would have been confident in my experiences. It wasn't until I took a big step back that I realized ehat was really going on.

 

Best of luck to you and I hope that all of you are practicing valid systems and accomplishing your goals (though I personally doubt it).

 

How do you know that what you've been experiencing with Mo Pai isn't just a stronger hallucination than the 'placebo effects' you felt with other systems?

[KenBrace]

Here's how it goes. Most systems teach stuff that, from experience, I believe to be placebo or at best real but not useful in any way. Stuff like feeling "magnetic sensations" "pressure feeling around the chakras" etc. It's the result of the placebo effect. It's not that I have tried every system, but rather that I've learned to identify placebo and know to avoid systems that teach it. Most systems don't pass. I haven't tried them but I believe that SFQ, tummo, Longmen Pai, and a few other systems have some validity (though they don't acomplish my goal). Most I believe to be non-sense though.

However that's just my view based on my own experience. I could always be wrong.

Edited June 24, 2014 by KenBrace

[KenBrace]

Here is another thing I would like to point out. A good way to view that validity and usefulness of a system is to take a look at what it produces.

 

A lot of people I have met have been at it for decades but what do they have to show for it? They have no inner power, no abilities, nothing that is a sign of energetic development. Some say that they he has gained a balanced life which is good and I'm happy for them. However a balanced life is a different area having to do with character, not spiritual development. Why would someone take the same route as these people? It's like buying an AC that doesn't work.

 

On the other hand take Wim Hof, Chunyi Lin, g-tummo monks, and John Chang. They have something to demonstrate. It's a "do this" and achieve my results type of system.

 

(Edited to remove comments about a specific individual although they were still polite comments. Just trying to be as careful as possible.)

Edited June 24, 2014 by KenBrace

[Jetsun]

Ken you talk about Tummo and regard it as legitimate and it even has its own section on your forum, yet Tummo is a part of the 6 Yogas of Naropa it isn't something separate in itself, and the 6 Yogas of Naropa is a part of the wider path of some Tibetan Buddhist lineages, all of which begins with basic Buddhist meditation techniques and ngondro preliminary practices such as cultivating merit and compassion, which many people on here practice, Kosta Danos even said on his interview here that there is value in the basic Buddhist meditation methods and the 6 Yogas can bring you everything Mo Pai can.

 

As a comparison you could say that those people here who are doing the basic practices and preliminaries (of which there are dozens of people) are on the lower levels of that path, but the main difference is that their path isn't closed to Westerners, there is the possibility to advance to the higher level practices which isn't possible with Mo Pai, so who is it really on the path to nowhere? those on the path which is open or those on the path which is closed.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Here is another thing I would like to point out. A good way to view that validity and usefulness of a system is to take a look at what it produces.

 

Take thelearner for example. He has been at it for decades but what does he have to show for it? He has no inner power, no abilities, nothing that is a sign of energetic development. He said he has gained a balanced life which is good and I'm happy for him. However a balanced life is a different area having to do with character, not spiritual development. Why would someone take the same route as thelearner or the countless other people that are in his position? It's like buying an AC that doesn't work.

 

On the other hand take Wim Hof, Chunyi Lin, g-tummo monks, and John Chang. They have something to demonstrate. It's a "do this" and achieve my results type of system.

 

Thelearner, sorry about using you as an example. I hope you don't take it as an offense or anything.

 

But, but, but, only 2 mopai people have showable powers... I'm just messing with you Ken, personally I see things quite a bit differently, and you can just *tell* when someone has some power/abilities or not.

 

Sometimes folks will teach a bit of Tummo stuff on its own, but it doesn't work nearly as well all by itself from all I can tell...

[KenBrace]

I think that tummo is indeed a valid system but I don't think that it leads to the same level as Mo Pai simply because of the masters that demonstrate the possibilities of their systems. Unless a tummo monk demonstrates Chang like ablities, I won't think of it as equal like Kosta seems to think.

[SonOfTheGods]

You seem to be very confident in yourself... That's fine I guess.

 

May I ask something though?

Why should anyone regard your opinion higher than the opinion of the master of the lineage they are interested in?

 

Because I use VARIOUS sources- not JUST one bible. (Magus/MAGICKIAN of Java)

 

 

I gave references for Yin and Yang Heel Meridians that specifically stated their purpose.

 

I also Referenced Acupuncture points.

 

I also gave Two solid References/Authors:

 

Jerry Johnson and Damo Mitchell = both did TaoBum Interviews

Edited June 23, 2014 by SonOfTheGods

[SonOfTheGods]

Also, something else.

 

Being as the West Side Mo-tzu Klan is so well versed in all things Nei Kung- and believes everything else is placebo:

 

Let's reference some Acupuncture Charts and Meridian points so we can figure out, just exactly how, MoPai confuses & "fuses yinyang".

 

Using Physics, Biology, TCM & General Science- let's get down to business, shall we?

 

Oh, and don't bother quoting "The Magus Of Java" because it means nothing to people who desire serious discussion, not bible quotes.

 

Rather, Utilize all your Years of Experience and Research

 

"Fusing Yin/Yang" is something that happens to anyone who practices diligently for awhile.

 

In MoPai- that's "the big deal"

 

Anyone who has researched or even practiced- understands this.

 

It is only a "buzz word" , this "Fusing Yin/Yang" in MoPai circles.

 

The only true way, to Immortality- is put perfectly by J. A. Johnson:

 

 

Then it continues on.

 

That is the correct path.

 

The point being- there's no storing of Yin in Perneium, which isn't even possible because it isn't a capacitor like the LDT is.

 

Daoist Nei Gong: By Damien Mitchell

 

_______

 

For more reasons why Qi can not be confined solely to the LDT per MoPai theorists:

 

Reference:

Yin Qiao Mai, Yang Qiao Mai

 

Also:

Dai Mai

[BaguaKicksAss]

I think that tummo is indeed a valid system but I don't think that it leads to the same level as Mo Pai simply because of the masters that demonstrate the possibilities of their systems. Unless a tummo monk demonstrates Chang like ablities, I won't think of it as equal like Kosta seems to think.

 

I think that while the system is extremely important (most stuff has been watered down over the centuries), that it is equally or more about the practitioner. I have met some practitioners who I've seen make some pretty watered down crap work extremely well! I have also seen person with legit teachings that couldn't pull much off. Now if you get a combo of the two things, then wow, just wow. But it is sort of like anything else, how many master piano players are there in the world? 1 in however many million...

[BaguaKicksAss]

Your JAJ quote didn't show up?