About strength training in Traditional Wushu

[Vitalii]

About strength training in Taijiquan:

 

"David Gaffney (co-author of the excellent Chen Style Taijiquan) has an article on chen tai chi strength training (PDF) that mentions methods such as stone lifting, pole shaking, the taiji bang (short stick), taiji ball (akin to a medicine ball), and training with intentionally heavy weapons:

 

"While it may come as a surprise to many, strength training is not a new phenomenon in Taijiquan. In the past, it represented one aspect of an all-encompassing training process. In Chenjiagou, within the garden where 14th Generation Chen clan member Chen Changxin is said to have taught Yang Luchan, founder of Yang style Taijiquan, can still be found an eighty kilogram stone weight that they are said to have regularly trained with. Traditional strength training methods such as pole shaking and practicing with heavy weapons continue to be used up until today.

...

Lifting heavy stones is done as a means to training the waist and lower body. Chen Ziquiang explains "the strength training method is highly specialized. You are not training to develop 'stupid strength' (brute or localised strength). This is training strength in the waist. Your hand strength is like the hook you use when you are towing a car. You have to remember that your hand is the hook. Your strength is coming from the waist and how you push into the ground, combining the strength of the car and the rope. The hook is only the implement that connects the two. So when you lift the big rock, it is the strength of the legs and waist...".

Edited June 17, 2014 by Vitalii

[Vitalii]

Wang Ziping practicing with a stone lock.

Wang was known for his mastery of Chaquan, Huaquan, Pao Chuan, Bajiquan, and Taijiquan.

 

 

[GreytoWhite]

Aye, strength training will be found throughout the martial arts, it's just a matter of training without the extreme localization that modern body building lauds.

[Andrei]

[Bearded Dragon]

I think it's certainly valid if you have a good basic body structure first. Otherwise I presume you'd either work the wrong parts or in the case of the first 2 in that video perhaps put your back out.

[Vitalii]

Great video!
Many similar exercises like in my Xingyi and Taiji quan training

 

Edited June 18, 2014 by Vitalii

[Andrei]

http://youtu.be/yTO3FyDCBhw

 

http://youtu.be/hRjGz_aWhIU

 

http://youtu.be/B453Dm_1mg8

[NotVoid]

While tai chi does require a good deal of strength in the legs and flexibility in the hips, practicing the tai chi form regularly slowly builds that strength and flexibility. IMO, the core of tai chi chuan and other internal arts is the internal cultivation (nei gong). If some internal martial artists train with weights, it may be because certain traditional weapons were quite heavy and require a lot of strength to handle, but that doesn't change the fact that the essence of the internal martial arts is nei gong.

 

Tai chi ruler may look like a strength training exercise, but its main purpose is internal training, in the sense of all the twisting and stretching and pressing of points helps to open up points and meridians and channels, etc. I believe tai chi ruler actually has different roots than tai chi chuan, although some tai chi practitioners such as Feng Zhiqiang practiced both. Even though Feng Zhiqiang learned traditional Chen style tai chi, he modified it into his own Hunyuan tai chi chuan style, in which Feng Zhiqiang brought tai chi chuan back to its more traditional roots of focusing on nei gong (internal cultivation) and full body relaxation, and removing things like the loud foot stomping and whatnot which serve no purpose in tai chi chuan training. So I have read in some comments by some of his students anyway.

[Vitalii]

neigong is a very important part of any traditional style of wushu.

Also we know that speed, strength, agility and precision are important for fight.

Therefore, if somebody practicing only neigong and slow movements and does not pay attention on the methods of speed, strength, agility and precision training, it means that training is incomplete.

So, what do we have today? The majority of practitioners of Taiji Quan Yang style do only one form, where movements are slow and soft. They usually say that, to use Taiji Quan in a real fight, one needs to practice them for at least 5-10 years. Frankly speaking, even if you practice a slow form for 20 years, you still will not be ready to defend yourself. It is a well-known fact that Yang Luchan and his son Yang Banhou trained a special battalion of the Imperial Army called Shenjiying, and their preparation for a real fight needed to be quick and effective, and could not last for years.

Therefore, a complete traditional practice of Taiji Quan Yang style includes not only the slow form, but a number of other forms and methods, where one can work on strength, speed, agility, quick execution of movements with a focus on the release of the power issuing (Fajin); there is also training of fast and precision buffets, etc.

[NotVoid]

Vitalii, I think it is quite possible if not likely that both the Chen family and Yang family had their own martial arts traditions which they practiced besides tai chi chuan. When the Yang family trained the imperial guards, the imperial guards needed practical martial arts skills which they could learn quickly and be able to put to use fairly quickly as well. Even for someone who starts quite young and trains for hours every day in tai chi chuan, they may need at least ten years of intense training to reach a half decent degree of martial arts skill in tai chi chuan, so tai chi chuan training alone would probably not be practical for the imperial guards to learn. Their training from the Yang family may therefore have focused on other martial arts practices the Yang family practiced, although it seems they may have been taught tai chi chuan forms as well, although perhaps somewhat modified in some ways. Yang Cheng Fu was considered quite accomplished in tai chi chuan and various students of his wrote about Yang Cheng Fu and the tai chi they learned from him, and Yang Cheng Fu seems to have focused on distilling tai chi Chuan to its core practice and fundamental training skills. Based on the writing of various students of Yang Chen Fu, it really seems that he felt the slow, relaxed and regular tai chi form practice and push hands practice is the core of what holds the true essence of tai chi chuan training. Other practices may have been supplementary practices that are not necessarily essential. It does seem various students of Yang Chen Fu felt that the regular practice of Yang Chen Fu's tai chi form and push hands practice was enough to potentially reach good achievement in tai chi chuan.

 

At any rate, few people these days have the time to devote at least three hours or more of daily practice of tai chi chuan, and most people these days practice mainly as a way of health maintenance and improvement, with the self defense aspect of tai chi probably being a secondary motivation for many people these days.

Just my own view and observations...

 

Edited June 18, 2014 by NotVoid

[ChiDragon]

While tai chi does require a good deal of strength in the legs and flexibility in the hips, practicing the tai chi form regularly slowly builds that strength and flexibility. IMO, the core of tai chi chuan and other internal arts is the internal cultivation (nei gong). If some internal martial artists train with weights, it may be because certain traditional weapons were quite heavy and require a lot of strength to handle, but that doesn't change the fact that the essence of the internal martial arts is nei gong.

 

Tai chi ruler may look like a strength training exercise, but its main purpose is internal training, in the sense of all the twisting and stretching and pressing of points helps to open up points and meridians and channels, etc. I believe tai chi ruler actually has different roots than tai chi chuan, although some tai chi practitioners such as Feng Zhiqiang practiced both. Even though Feng Zhiqiang learned traditional Chen style tai chi, he modified it into his own Hunyuan tai chi chuan style, in which Feng Zhiqiang brought tai chi chuan back to its more traditional roots of focusing on nei gong (internal cultivation) and full body relaxation, and removing things like the loud foot stomping and whatnot which serve no purpose in tai chi chuan training. So I have read in some comments by some of his students anyway.

 

I agree with all what is in red. The practice of nei gong(internal) is before wai gong(external). Tai ji quan meets this requirement.

[Vitalii]

 

 

At any rate, few people these days have the time to devote at least three hours or more of daily practice of tai chi chuan, and most people these days practice mainly as a way of health maintenance and improvement, with the self defense aspect of tai chi probably being a secondary motivation for many people these days.

Just my own view and observations...

 

 

yes, I agree with you

 

We also know that after the fall of the imperial dynasty, Yang families were forced to earn their living by teaching Taiji Quan to everyone. In order to make it possible, it was necessary to make the style more accessible and easy. Moreover, the Yang families had no desire to disclose all the secrets of marital arts to anyone who wanted it. For these reasons, the style taught to a wide public had to be simplified.

It is also known that the sons of Yang Luchan – Yang Jianhou and Yang Banhou – although had a full knowledge of the family style, yet taught only some of its sections. Thus, Yang Banhou taught mainly the Large and Small frame, and Yang Jianhou taught the Large frame and the Old frame. The son of Yang Jianhou, Yang Chengfu, taught mainly the Large frame to all students, and the complex Long Fist (Changquan) was given only to the elected disciples. In such a way, we can see that different representatives of the Yang family taught their students in different ways, and did not disclose all of their secrets not only to a wide audience, but sometimes even to their close disciples.

Therefore, even direct transfer cannot always guarantee the completeness in studying of the art.

For example, nowadays the Large frame, where movements are performed softly and smoothly, can be seen widely, but just a little is known about the Old frame, the Fast frame or training of the fast power issuing (Fajin) in the Yang style (and derived styles), and very few people know about their existence.

The Large Frame (Da Jia), where movements are slow and soft, really is the first step in the mastery of Taiji Quan, but it’s only the first step. Surely, even by practicing only this form, you can improve your health and make your mind and heart calm and balanced. But it all will remain as a practice for health maintenance then.

Meantime, if you are interested in martial aspect, then you cannot to stop at this stage. Apart from the Large Frame, there are still: “Lower Frame” or “Frame of the Earth” (Dijia), “Small Frame” (Xiaojia), “Fast Frame” (Kuaijia), “Old Frame” (Laojia) and that’s not all from the list. All these practices have different execution techniques and different purposes.

[NotVoid]

 

 

yes, I agree with you

 

 

We also know that after the fall of the imperial dynasty, Yang families were forced to earn their living by teaching Taiji Quan to everyone. In order to make it possible, it was necessary to make the style more accessible and easy. Moreover, the Yang families had no desire to disclose all the secrets of marital arts to anyone who wanted it. For these reasons, the style taught to a wide public had to be simplified.

 

It is also known that the sons of Yang Luchan Yang Jianhou and Yang Banhou although had a full knowledge of the family style, yet taught only some of its sections. Thus, Yang Banhou taught mainly the Large and Small frame, and Yang Jianhou taught the Large frame and the Old frame. The son of Yang Jianhou, Yang Chengfu, taught mainly the Large frame to all students, and the complex Long Fist (Changquan) was given only to the elected disciples. In such a way, we can see that different representatives of the Yang family taught their students in different ways, and did not disclose all of their secrets not only to a wide audience, but sometimes even to their close disciples.

 

Therefore, even direct transfer cannot always guarantee the completeness in studying of the art.

 

For example, nowadays the Large frame, where movements are performed softly and smoothly, can be seen widely, but just a little is known about the Old frame, the Fast frame or training of the fast power issuing (Fajin) in the Yang style (and derived styles), and very few people know about their existence.

 

The Large Frame (Da Jia), where movements are slow and soft, really is the first step in the mastery of Taiji Quan, but its only the first step. Surely, even by practicing only this form, you can improve your health and make your mind and heart calm and balanced. But it all will remain as a practice for health maintenance then.

Meantime, if you are interested in martial aspect, then you cannot to stop at this stage. Apart from the Large Frame, there are still: Lower Frame or Frame of the Earth (Dijia), Small Frame (Xiaojia), Fast Frame (Kuaijia), Old Frame (Laojia) and thats not all from the list. All these practices have different execution techniques and different purposes.

 

I think what you have described above is something that at best can be described as speculation and misconceptions. There are various translations of writings and comments by some different students of Yang Cheng Fu, and the general consensus seems to be that Yang Cheng Fu distilled tai chi down to its core essentials and main important practices, or the essence of tai chi, and some of Yang Cheng Fu's students were considered to be quite accomplished in tai chi as well. They did not express (from what I have encountered) that they thought Yang Cheng Fu held back anything important from them, at any rate. Although different members of the Yang family may have had somewhat different emphasis and different ways of practicing, I don't think it stands up to the facts at all to suggest that Yang Cheng Fu's large form and way of teaching was only focused on health maintenance, as again, some of Yang Cheng Fu's students were considered quite accomplished in tai chi martial arts skill them self. My own personal view is Yang Cheng Fu did really distill tai chi chuan down to its core essentials, as what he taught seems to be very consistent with what is described in the so called tai chi classics as well.

 

 

Here are some interesting and relevant quotes from an interview with Fu Zhong Wen, a very notable student of Yang Cheng Fu, and his grandson:

 

"Among the methods Yang emphasized was that the form should be done six to eight times in a row each day. Only in this way, he said, can a student catch the feeling of real kung-fu and be able to develop martial skills. And he said this is the way that Yang Cheng-fu taught and that Fu and his son and grandson teach."

 

"Fu said that in the practice of the form, the first couple of times is a warm up. From the fourth or fifth repetition, you improve your kung-fu. "When students were practicing in this manner," he said, "Yang Cheng-fu would sit there and watch them." He also said that Yang Cheng-fu, while teaching a class, would take pains to correct them so that they could get movements correct. "He would always watch and would never just walk away. In watching, he might have them repeat the posture over again until they learned it correctly. He was a very good teacher."

 

"He said, "You get different pay from different work. This is the same in the martial arts. The T'ai Chi idea is to practice slow but the idea is not to do the movements but to use your mind to control your movements. It is not your movements doing the movements. It is using the inside to do the movement so every movement can be very final. "If you are doing a movement fast, something can be wrong and not observed, he said. But if you are doing it slow, then you can see if you are doing something wrong and other people can see if you are doing something wrong." James Fu said his father, Fu Shengyuan, told him that doing T'ai Chi exercises is different from other exercise in that you use large muscles and small muscles. All the muscles, large and small, get exercised when the movements are done slowly, he said. When performed fast, only a few muscles get exercised. "That's why beginners who have strong, even big legs experience shaking legs when they start T'ai Chi."

 

"James Fu said that if someone does the form eight to ten times a day continuously for one year, they can feel something They can then feel the jing."

 

"When asked if the style Yang learned was the Chen style, James Fu quoted one of his grandfather's favorite sayings, "T'ai Chi is only one." James Fu said that what Yang Lu-ch'an learned in Chen Jiagou, the Chen family village, from Chen Changxing is the same form that the Yang family still practices. He said it was not the Chen style that Yang Lu-ch'an learned.

"It is called the Yang style because the Yang family popularized it. In his book, Yang Cheng-fu did not refer to Yang family T'ai Chi Ch'uan, he called it T'ai Chi Ch'uan. In his book, he said that T'ai Chi Ch'uan is only one. James Fu said that Yang's sons also did the same form. "In T'ai Chi form, you can't make everyone exactly the same. That's impossible. Every human body is different. But it was not the purpose to change the movements. Because Yang Cheng-fu had a big body, he did it a little bit bigger. Because Yang Shou-hou was a little bit smaller the movements were a little smaller. But it was not a small frame like the Wu style." He said, "You can do low movements or with arms wider or with small steps and arms smaller. It depends on what level you are at. But as long as the principles are followed, as long as the shoulder is relaxed, elbows dropped, body weight in front, and relaxed, I can't say that you are wrong."

 

"Yang Lu-ch'an did this style but Yang Cheng-fu organized it into an uniform way."

 

(This following part may be controversial, but this is what was said in the interview):

"My grandfather said that before the Communists took over the country, you never heard of the Chen style. It was only after 1949, when the government wanted to dig out old things, they dug out the Pao Tui form and combined it with T'ai Chi. The Pao Tui came from Tumbei."

 

"He said because the Yang family has been promoting T'ai Chi Ch'uan, people call it the Yang style to differentiate it from the other styles that were derived from it. "But originally, we are just called T'ai Chi Ch'uan. And this is what we are doing, the original one. There is not any other difference. "Originally, there was only one T'ai Chi Ch'uan form and Yang style is the original form. And then afterwards came the Wu style, Sun style and Hao style. "Yang Cheng-fu, Yang Lu-ch'an and Yang Banhou never changed anything. They just did whatever they learned. And this is T'ai Chi."

 

Fu Zhongwen said that many people changed the form, but that the form he and his family practice is exactly as it was taught by Yang Cheng-fu. "Lots of people changed the form. I am the only one that did not change the form. I still haven't studied everything. How can I change it? The ancients were so good, how can you change something that they developed with their high skills." The heart of T'ai Chi, James Fu said, is keeping the weight forward when transitioning to step forward with the other foot. He said you should not shift the weight back before stepping. "A lot of people have nice movement but lose a lot of important points when doing the transitions and that weakens their kung-fu."

 

Fu Zhongwen was a major and close student of Yang Cheng Fu, and it is very doubtful that Yang Cheng Fu held back secrets from him. According to Fu Zhong Wen, what Yang Cheng Fu passed on to him was the same tai chi that Yang Lu Chan learned and passed on to his family, with perhaps some differences in emphasis and practice methods amongst different Yang family members. People who suggest that what Yang Cheng Fu taught is just watered down or lower level practices seem to be quite at odds with what actual and notable students of Yang Cheng Fu have said. I personally am much more inclined to believe what Yang Cheng Fu's students have said than speculation from others who it appears may actually want to change tai chi to fit in with their preconceptions.

 

Edited June 18, 2014 by NotVoid

[Vitalii]

sorry, but you do not know some information about Taiji

 

I believe that Yang Chengfu was a good fighter.

Large form allows you to learn the basic skills and principles of Taiji, but for real fight Yang Chengfu practiced Fast Frame”. Also known that he only once publicly demonstrated Fast Frame (or Changquan) in Shanghai.

Before moving to Shanghai in 1925, Yang Chengfu taught not only a large frame, but he also taught Changquan for his advanced students.

When Yang Chengfu came to Shanghai for popularize Taijiquan, he excluded Changquan from his training program. The reason was that in his trips on major cities of China, he did not have enough time to train students there, and he taught only Large frame.

You can find information about Changquan in Chen Weiming's book. Chen Weiming was one of the senior disciples of Yang Chengfu.

Also from Wu Tu Nan we know that there were only six students of Yang Shaohou, who knew Fast Frame.

There are many other records about Fast Frame, Lower Frame, Small Frame, etc.

 

Also there is information that one of the foremost disciples of Yang Luchan was Fu Zhou, he was a descendant of a noble family, and a General. Zhou was one of the chosen disciples, which learned a complete training system from Yang. Back in those days when the son of Yang Luchan, Yang Banhou, decided to change the system of transfer of mastery Taiji in order to keep the family art, Fu Zhou refused to change the system of training and continued to work in a similar manner as was taught to him by Yang Luchan. Later, he transferred his art to his son Fu Ying, who did teach all his knowledge to Xiao Gongzhuo.

 

Some information from Master Li Zheng:

 

"When Yang Luchan arrived in Beijing, he taught 10 taiji sets at the mansion of Prince Duan. These 10 sets form a complete taiji syllabus. Whilst teaching at the mansion, Yang accepted two disciples: one was Wang Lanting (whose teachings form the basis of Li [Ruidong] style taiji), the other was Fu Zhou. Both of these people were men of rank within the mansion: Wang Lanting was Prince Duan’s housekeeper, in modern terms he was responsible for the security of the House; Fu Zhou was a Manchu general with a very solid foundation in martial arts. Both of these men only became Yang Luchan’s disciples after losing to him in several challenges. And so Yang taught them these 10 original sets of Yang style taiji.

 

A: Why did Yang Chengfu standardise Yang style taiji into the ’85-posture’ routine that is so common today?

 

L: When, in his later years, Yang Luchan asked his sons Yang Banhou and Yang Jianhou to come to Beijing to help him with his teaching duties, the two sons suggested that they should make some changes to the original sets. And so Yang Luchan started the process that would end with Yang Chengfu’s 85 set. You have to take the historical background into account as well when thinking about Yang Chengfu’s promulgation of the 85 set. 3 generations of the Yangs all taught within the mansions of the Manchu princes. After the fall of the Qing dynasty, the princes quickly fell from grace, and so the Yangs found themselves having to teach commoners to make a living. And so they simplified their public form to make it easier to learn. Another reason for the changes was that they didn’t want to teach the full original system to the public.

 

Yang Chengfu started popularising taiji in the late 20s and early 30s. As more and more people started to practice Chengfu’s 85 set, most people practicing Yang style only knew of one set, his 85. That’s why a lot of people have never heard of other forms – because most Yang stylists come from Yang Chengfu’s line."

Edited June 19, 2014 by Vitalii

[Vitalii]

Banhou Fast Frame (Kuaijia)

 

 

Yang shao hao's fast form

 

[Vitalii]

Banhou's Fast Frame

 

Yang Shaohou's Fast Frame

[Vitalii]

Lower Frame

 

[Dark Templar]

For example, nowadays the Large frame, where movements are performed softly and smoothly, can be seen widely, but just a little is known about the Old frame, the Fast frame or training of the fast power issuing (Fajin) in the Yang style (and derived styles), and very few people know about their existence.

Hi Vitalii,

Do you practice any form of Fast frame yourself?

[Vitalii]

Hi Vitalii,

Do you practice any form of Fast frame yourself?

 

yes, I do.

[Dark Templar]

yes, I do.

Thanks for the answer. Could you please also tell is it Yang Banhou frame? If now, what kind of frame is it?

[Vitalii]

Thanks for the answer. Could you please also tell is it Yang Banhou frame?

 

no

[NotVoid]

I have heard of Li Zheng and I have seen videos of his tai chi forms. The tai chi form variations that he does teach do not really appear that much different from Yang Cheng Fu's tai chi, IMO, and the other martial arts forms he teaches may be forms which the Yang family had traditionally practiced that were not directly related to tai chi, but which were passed on to the imperial guards, as we have already discussed. Some of those other forms are known to come from other martial arts traditions which existed at the time, for example, from what I understand anyway. It is also mentioned by Fu that some members of the Yang family would practice tai chi somewhat differently depending on body type and preference and level of attainment at the time, but that the principles employed were still the same. It is still essentially the same tai chi which is being practiced, but some practiced lower and some less stretched out, etc. Not really different practices. To my knowledge, none of Yang Cheng Fu's students have ever complained that Yang Cheng Fu's form and other practices which he taught to his students were deficient in any way. All seem to have actually indicated that what Yang Cheng Fu passed on was the real core and essence of tai chi. It really appears to be only unfounded speculation to suggest otherwise.

 

The point I have been trying to make is that if a person understands that the essence of tai chi is nei gong development and the incorporation of certain specific principles througout the movements, then it should be clear anyway that variations in form practice and supplementary practices from one teacher to the other, or variations in student practice relating to the different levels of attainment, does not really make a difference as long as the principles and core practice are the same. Fu Zhong Wen made it clear that if the Yang Cheng Fu form is practiced enough (and if practiced correctly of course) along with the other practices such as push hands, that anyone can (potentially at least) develop martial arts skill in tai chi. Since Fu Zhong Wen was himself very accomplished in tai chi from practicing such methods as taught by Yang Cheng Fu, I see no reason to doubt what he (and other notable students of Yang Cheng Fu) have said in this regard.

 

If people want to practice other forms and other practices as well, that is completely up to them, but both Fu Zhong Wen and Yang Zhen Duo (Yang Cheng Fu's son) taught about the exact same form and practice methods. According to Yang Cheng Fu's students, practicing other methods or other forms and what not really does not appear to be necessary outside of the core practices of tai chi as passed on by Yang Cheng Fu. Others may express a different view, but again, what I am describing is based on what various notable direct students of Yang Cheng Fu have said in recorded writings and comments. The core of tai chi is the nei gong development and adherence to the core principles in the movements as outlined in the so called tai chi classics. In my own view, as long as whatever tai chi style or practice methods a teacher is teaching adhere to these then a person should be on the right track in their practice of tai chi chuan. On the other hand, if someone is suggesting that weight training and other muscular strength training outside of the tai chi form practice and other tai chi core practices such as push hands is required for tai chi martial arts skill development, then it would seem to me that such a person has probably not ever trained in authentic tai chi chuan. The same for the other internal martial arts. They are classified as 'internal' martial arts for a very good reason in my opinion, although much of this seems to have become lost or blurred in recent times. What is being taught by some teachers nowadays appears to be only external form practices and has lost the true 'internal' essence of the internal arts. All just my own opinion....

 

Edited June 19, 2014 by NotVoid

[Vitalii]

They are classified as 'internal' martial arts for a very good reason in my opinion,

 

You should know that the separation on the internal and external martial arts it is a modern trend and it did not exist in ancient times

 

 

All seem to have actually indicated that what Yang Cheng Fu passed on was the real core and essence of tai chi. It really appears to be only unfounded speculation to suggest otherwise.

 

I did not say that.

I only say that different representatives of the Yang family taught their students in different ways, and did not disclose all of their secrets not only to a wide audience, but sometimes even to their close disciples.

We can find a lot of proofs of this.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Vitalii

[NotVoid]

I think Ma Chuanxu, an accomplished and well respected bagua zhang practitioner, does a very good job of explaining what is the role of nei gong in the internal martial arts, and how this internal qi and internal skill development is what makes the 'internal' martial arts 'internal'. Other martial arts traditions may also have 'nei gong' training, but the nei gong training in the so called internal martial arts is very specific and is at the core of those systems.

 

"Interview with Mr. Ma Chuanxu, Liang Style Baguazhang expert from Beijing and president of the Beijing Baguazhang Research Association"

http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/bagua/machuanxu.html

 

excerpt from the interview:

"JS: Have you ever practiced any hardening or strengthening methods?

 

MR. MA: No, I did not. These exercises develop external, stiff power. What we want is the Internal Qi which drives all the movements. It's like mercury, once you strike it's there, once you withdraw - it returns as well. It's flexible, alive."

 

 

All the best...

 

[Vitalii]

Ma Chuanxu say that he does not do it, but he do Paidagong and it is also hard training

Master Wang Ziping and many other masters of taiji/xingyi/... practicing with a stone lock.

Also "In Chenjiagou, within the garden where 14th Generation Chen clan member Chen Changxin is said to have taught Yang Luchan, founder of Yang style Taijiquan, can still be found an eighty kilogram stone weight that they are said to have regularly trained with. "

 

"Lifting heavy stones is done as a means to training the waist and lower body. Chen Ziquiang explains "the strength training method is highly specialized. You are not training to develop 'stupid strength' (brute or localised strength). This is training strength in the waist. Your hand strength is like the hook you use when you are towing a car. You have to remember that your hand is the hook. Your strength is coming from the waist and how you push into the ground, combining the strength of the car and the rope. The hook is only the implement that connects the two. So when you lift the big rock, it is the strength of the legs and waist..."."

 

Therefore,I think we must distinguish exercise for training brute force as in bodybuilding, and strength training in Traditional Wushu.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Vitalii