Science of Chi

[Immortal]

After reading a post about how someone called chi "unscientific," I decided to start my own post on the scientific findings done on pranic healing; which is a no-touch system of external medical chi kung that was created in china and revolutionized in modern times by Master Choa Kuk Sui.

 

I wish to use SCIENCE not mere ignorance or a belief system to show that prana or chi is indeed real.

 

Here is a scientific study conducted in the radiology dept. of UC Irvine by Dr. Joie Jones. It was an EXTENSIVE experiment with over 800 trials conducted over the course of 10 years (from 1998-2008). They tested the effects of pranic healing on cells in a petri dish.

 

Here is a pdf. of the results, below is a youtube video.

 

http://www.pdf-archive.com/2014/06/05/zellkulturen-drjones-dt/

 

 

http://www.pranichealingukire.co.uk/BirthRoomResearch.pdf

 

 

In another DOUBLE-BLIND study Andrea Tarabek, R.N. tested the effects of pranic healing in the maternity ward. Keep in mind in a double blind, neither the patients nor the staff had been aware any healing had been administered. Also keep in mind that the patients nor the staff had be directly healed on, only the space has been pranically cleaned before they went in. Just the mere reduction in bad chi in the room in some cases was enough to drop labor complication by a staggering 74%!!

 

 

It's disrespectful for people to come on here and calling thousands of years of tradition and research a "crutch" without ANY research to back up their claim.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Immortal

[thelerner]

Good points, but science- Western science is about measurement. Your talking about the effects of chi. Can Chi be measured? By a device? Does the chi-o-meter exist?

[Immortal]

Good points, but science- Western science is about measurement. Your talking about the effects of chi. Can Chi be measured? By a device? Does the chi-o-meter exist?

 

We do not have the technology yet to detect chi, but it's effects CAN be detected, even in double blinds, repeatedly.

 

Also keep in mind that technically, time like prana also cannot be measured.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqzgYRBlslw

Edited June 19, 2014 by Immortal

[dawei]

A related thread; someone interested in measuring Qi.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/33714-what-would-you-ask-a-master/

[Immortal]

Good points, but science- Western science is about measurement. Your talking about the effects of chi. Can Chi be measured? By a device? Does the chi-o-meter exist?

 

Not sure if you know this as well, but gravity also cannot be measured. The most sensitive device we have to attempt to measure gravity is the Laser Interferometer Gravitational-Wave Observatory; or LIGO, which can measure distortions smaller than 10^-18 meters. LIGO hasn’t yet found gravitational waves.

 

 

We can weigh things because we can measure the EFFECT of gravity on things, but as for gravity itself, we cannot measure it, kinda like prana / chi.

 

It is unscientific to say because we cannot measure chi that it's not real.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Immortal

[Immortal]

Good points, but science- Western science is about measurement. Your talking about the effects of chi. Can Chi be measured? By a device? Does the chi-o-meter exist?

 

I'm always so dumb founded when people just say things without doing ANY research. Yes we cannot measure prana but many forces in physics cannot be measured.

 

Yes, there is no chi-o-meter but there is also no such thing as a gravity-o-meter, that doesn't mean gravity isn't real, lol.

 

Please do some RESEARCH before you go spreading ignorance as truth to people.

Edited June 19, 2014 by Immortal

[GrandmasterP]

Who would we trust with our Qi data if indeed it could be measured and why would anyone want it in the first place?

Makes about as much sense as asking in order to be 'measuring' " On a scale of 1 to 10 how much more tree-ness does this tree have compared to that tree over there?"

[Brian]

Let's not bicker and argue about who knows what...

 

 

 

 

This is a happy occasion!

Edited June 19, 2014 by Brian

[Immortal]

Let's not bicker and argue about who knows what...

 

 

 

 

This is a happy occasion!

 

You're right brotha.

 

I have to admit, it's just a pet peeve of mine when people spread misinformation, either intentionally or unintentional.

[soaring crane]

 

We can weigh things because we can measure the EFFECT of gravity on things, but as for gravity itself, we cannot measure it, kinda like prana / chi.

 

 

that's a really good point. Physics is full of 'things' that are only recognized by their effect. The names are arbitrary.

[Immortal]

that's a really good point. Physics is full of 'things' that are only recognized by their effect. The names are arbitrary.

 

I agree. People assume because terms like "gravity" are thrown around that science has the ability to detect gravity waves, and truth be told we can't!

 

There are a lot of this we have been indoctrinated into in school, much of the science people think is science is based on our own assumptions and out dated scientific models.

 

I didn't learn quantum physics in high school 13+ years ago, so I had to educate myself on those subjects, and that allowed me to understand how prana works based on quantum theory. As the video stated, his physics friends had no problems believing the research.

 

Chi in my mind is what quantum physicists call a non-local energy, which is why pranic healers can heal from 6000 miles away and Daoist alchemists can draw prana from star constellations that are light years away.

 

Quantum theory in my mind is the closest scientific model we have that meshes seamlessly with Daoist cosmology and chi theory.

[Immortal]

Almost a century ago, Einstein postulated the existence of gravity waves. Even though we've been able to detect the effect of gravity on things similar to prana, we have never actually detected a gravity wave, UNTIL NOW!!!

 

http://time.com/24894/gravity-waves-expanding-universe/

 

This gives me hope that one day like gravity waves, they too will be able to detect prana. In the mean time, as long as we can measure the effect or prana on things, we should continue to study, experiment, and refine the art and science of psycho-energetics.

[soaring crane]

Even though we've been able to detect the effect of gravity on things similar to prana, we have never actually detected a gravity wave, UNTIL NOW!!!

 

http://time.com/24894/gravity-waves-expanding-universe/

 

Good stuff, thx for the head's up!

[Immortal]

In my opinion, if we are to take our understanding of prana to the next level, we will have to experiment with it and apply it in a non-dogmatic scientific way under strict laboratory conditions; just like Master Choa, the founder of pranic healing did.

 

Master Hector Ramos of pranic healing spoke about how people would volunteer to get a small cut on their hand (performed by an on sight doctor) just so they could test and develop their protocols to use prana for rapid wound healing, they would use a stop watch and everything!!

 

Master Choa was a very scientific and methodical person, and he tells students in his books that if you experiment with something and you have verified it to be true, even it it's the opposite of what he teaches, we should go with what works not what he taught, that way the teachings are protected from becoming antiquated.

 

Pranic healing is an art but first and foremost it's a science, and there is no room for ego clinging and dogmatism in science. Either it works or it doesn't, it's as simple as that. And if it works PROVE that it works, like Master Choa did in his 800 trials in UC Irvine with pranic healing.

 

I myself would like to see more double blinds done on pranic healing, but so far the ones they have done have been rather impressive!

[soaring crane]

I myself would like to see more double blinds done on pranic healing, but so far the ones they have done have been rather impressive!

 

I would actually like to see more done on the intentionally maligned 'placebo' effect. I know that pharmaceutical companies have libraries full of information which they keep strictly guarded. I think it's reasonable to assume they have also done many, many studies of 'alternative' methods, including energetic methods, and of course herbal and other natural medicines, and keep the results from leaking into the public.

 

It's not just a hunch on my part. My mother and my wife both worked for one of the big ones, in positions that involved handling and processing/preparing studies for FDA approval. My mother especially worked very closely with the researchers and has talked openly about the problems they have with these things.

Edited June 25, 2014 by soaring crane

[Immortal]

I would actually see more done on the intentionally maligned 'placebo' effect. I know that pharmaceutical companies have libraries full of information which they keep strictly guarded. I think it's reasonable to assume they have also done many, many studies of 'alternative' methods, including energetic methods, and of course herbal and other natural medicines, and keep the results from leaking into the public.

 

It's not just a hunch on my part. My mother and my wife both worked for one of the big ones, in positions that involved handling and processing/preparing studies for FDA approval. My mother especially worked very closely with the researchers and has talked openly about the problems they have with these things.

 

Soaring Crane,

 

http://www.pdf-archive.com/2014/06/05/zellkulturen-drjones-dt/

 

The pdf that I posted a link to on the 800 studies done on pranic healing at UC Irvine is NO WHERE on the internet. I had to post that pdf up from my personal collection. It has "disappeared" from the internet, so I am trying to reseed it so people know it's out there. But the youtube videos obviously are still up thankfully.

 

I 100% believe that they keep a lot of these studies to themselves. The point of these studies most likely is to discover and test healing modalities they can make money from.

 

I mean lets be honest; chi is free, no one is gonna get rich selling pranic therapies you can learn to do yourself at home with practice. It is my sincerest hope one day to see western medical science mixed with the eastern pranic therapies and herbal medicine, I think they would work wonderfully together.

 

The immense popularity of Star Wars, Harry Potter and other highly popular myths underlie our deep thirst for the magical and mystical. But we need not trivialize them, or relegate spiritual techniques to whimsical, childhood fables. The ancient cultures have created a high technology of the sacred, a technology which is no less real and no less extraordinary than the kind of electronic and information technology developed in the West.

 

So now all of you on this forum know for sure beyond the shadow of a doubt, that chi is indeed real, and can be demonstrated under double blinds and the strictest laboratory conditions. I mean they even tried to shield those cells in the petri dish with a Faraday cage and it STILL didn't stop the pranic energies from getting in. Prana or chi is not a religious belief, it is a valid and scientifically demonstrable energy.

 

I have never believed in religion. Religions are all limited because they concentrate only on one aspect of truth. That is why they are always fighting amongst one another, because they all think they are in the sole possession of the truth. But I say there is no end to knowledge, so there is no use in trying to confine it to one scripture or one holy book or one experience. This is why I say when people ask me what religion I follow I say I don't believe in any sampradaya (sect), I believe in sampradaha (incineration). Burn down everything which is getting in the way of your perception of truth.

[Immortal]

Only through research can the pranic sciences be advanced, but only through practice can the pranic arts be mastered.

[mindtooloud]

bonham corpuscles?