Wary about teachers

[Tao-Newbie]

I have a question about teachers. I've read some of Mantak Chia's books, but I've also heard (here and elsewhere) controversy about his system. I've been burned badly by several martial arts teachers in the past, so I'm even more wary now, considering the time involved and the potential for injury in Taoist practices. Put honestly, I simply do not have enough time or energy at this point in my life to be "taken" anymore.

 

Can anyone clearly outline for me the concensus as to which parts of Mantak Chia's system work (if any), and which do not. Or at least which parts are verifiably true and not made up? Are there any more accurate or reliable books out there that anyone can point out, besides the various Mantak books?

 

Finally, I ran into a guy named Gary Clyman, who does Emotional Liposuction in Chicago. I had a session with him some time ago, and he also demonstrated Iron Shirt (allowed me to strike him), but I'm wondering if he would be a reputable candidate to train with. He does seem a tad...well...unbalanced. I don't know how else to put it. Seems like a dedicated guy and quite friendly, but I just have nothing to really compare him to. Has anyone here ever worked with him?

 

Any advice?

[Lozen]

Other people probably have more/better info about Mantak Chia and your other teacher, but I say go with your gut. If he feels unbalanced to you, he probably is.

[Leidee]

In my opinion, most everyone is unbalanced according to someone somewhere!

 

As to Chia - I was "underwhelmed" at meeting him but that is not to say that some people have not experienced great benefits in using his system.

[Sahaj Nath]

I have a question about teachers. I've read some of Mantak Chia's books, but I've also heard (here and elsewhere) controversy about his system. I've been burned badly by several martial arts teachers in the past, so I'm even more wary now, considering the time involved and the potential for injury in Taoist practices. Put honestly, I simply do not have enough time or energy at this point in my life to be "taken" anymore.

 

Can anyone clearly outline for me the concensus as to which parts of Mantak Chia's system work (if any), and which do not. Or at least which parts are verifiably true and not made up? Are there any more accurate or reliable books out there that anyone can point out, besides the various Mantak books?

 

Finally, I ran into a guy named Gary Clyman, who does Emotional Liposuction in Chicago. I had a session with him some time ago, and he also demonstrated Iron Shirt (allowed me to strike him), but I'm wondering if he would be a reputable candidate to train with. He does seem a tad...well...unbalanced. I don't know how else to put it. Seems like a dedicated guy and quite friendly, but I just have nothing to really compare him to. Has anyone here ever worked with him?

 

Any advice?

 

 

 

a few things:

 

 

what are your goals? it's hard to give you a legitimate answer without knowing that.

 

i always took it as a given that one must always have the time and energy to be "taken." path working is not a vacation, and neither is enlightenment, assuming one realizes it. one of the lessons in letting go of one's attachments is being able to abandon ANYTHING at a moment's notice, as soon as one realizes that it no longer serves them.

 

there is much that you could learn from either teacher, but if your hope is to look for someone you can follow so you can just relax and glide through their framework, i'd say that you've got some re-thinking to do. you and only you are responsible for your development. no one else can be an expert on you. it's good to get rooted in a discipline, but so many people forget that the internal arts are, first and foremost, AN ART.

 

i've learned a lot from chia. i've read well over a hundred books related to internal cultivation and spiritual development, so i never go into an author's work with the illusion that they will possess all that i'll ever need to know. i do that work myself. but with the foundation that i have painstakingly established (not really that "painstaking" at all, given that my life is thoroughly devoted to the internal arts), i have acquired many valuable insights from chia. i would and could NEVER follow his system exclusively, but then i don't think i would ever follow anyone's.

 

 

you're right about clyman. there's no ambiguity about his inflated ego and delusions of grandeur. in my opinion he is marketing his own sense of greatness through gimmicks (emotional liposuction?), not so much leading people to realize their highest potential. however, that's not to say that you couldn't learn something of value from him. i personally think his 'forceful' approach to cultivation is dangerous, and that he and his students are actually quite lucky that he DOESN'T have a lot of skill. but it depends again on your goals as well as how far along you are in your growth and maturing process.

 

i actually have a student/friend in the chicago area that i could maybe put you in touch with. he's talented and has enough skill to demonstrate his ability with qi. i'm willing to bet that he can manifest as much, if not more qi flow than clyman can, but that's not what he's about. he doesn't teach at present, but he could prove to be a good friend with whom you could work out some of your concerns and explore some of your interests. i would need to know about you,your goals, your history, your age, and that kind of thing, but i'm willing to bet that you would benefit from meeting with him.

 

if interested, send me a private message. we'll talk.

Edited August 16, 2007 by Hundun

[Spectrum]

I have a question about teachers. I've read some of Mantak Chia's books, but I've also heard (here and elsewhere) controversy about his system.

 

If something is benificial it will have an associated practice that manifests results. Either what you practice works or it doesn't. A couple times around the block you start to get the general points of what energy we're dealing with (jing) and what (chi) should remotely feel like when it comes to the surface, etc. The main points of exploration has always been the breathing exercises and the physiological process that accompany them. For me this proved there was something to be said about simply reasoning with the medium we're suspended in. Chi Gung works because the body is intelligent, not because any teacher discovered a system. Just my disclaimer. It works when we "let go" of our conscious dialog and simply BE in our bodies. In any class i lead I never have to coach this in athletes, only people who arn't in their body, people who "live in their heads". That could be me anyways so i just coach and move and breath I don't stop to look at all their perceived problems, a lot of them go away after we breath and move together for an hour. Its just that way. We can deprogram ourselves so easily, people do it everyday, but with no method so they get a little weird. Music, Sex, Food, All meditations and wonderfully designed messages of the timeless divine drama, don't be fooled, their not ours to own, just Tend to. Cultivate.

 

I've been burned badly by several martial arts teachers in the past, so I'm even more wary now, considering the time involved and the potential for injury in Taoist practices. Put honestly, I simply do not have enough time or energy at this point in my life to be "taken" anymore.

 

Me too. To much as stake and no time to waste when it comes to tending the ember of life.

 

Can anyone clearly outline for me the concensus as to which parts of Mantak Chia's system work (if any), and which do not. Or at least which parts are verifiably true and not made up? Are there any more accurate or reliable books out there that anyone can point out, besides the various Mantak books?

 

Dude. Honestly. You will get further giving yourself an hour a day to experiment and some honest inquiry based dialog with other practitioners, here or there, it doesn't matter that much. Taoist meditation particularlly starts with emptiness. What's that you say? Nothing at all. Just being yourself as you are, mind you, without thought, just you, not who you think you are, but as you are. No need for hypnotherapy, TaiChi works really great as a way to open your peripheral awareness to the natural geometry prevalent in nature. Meditation is within reach within the arts. You could say that within Tai Chi the wise old chinese masters hid a cultured trance, but then again if it just works for me, it doesn't matter.

 

All the practices work mind you, regardlness of "visualization", work to alter the mind, dialate awareness if you will, when you change your breath you change your mind. I would only ask about a teacher, do you like the qualities of your teacher, because you will become like them, even if it's a plant... which might be a good teacher for some people if the given the proper circumstances. But even in tai chi, if you find a teacher who moves in a way you wish to mimic, that you enjoy whether it be strong and firm and earthy or as light as a feather not there yet able to be where you need to be, then learn to mimic, be the white crane, visualize what you percieve as natural, how does a snake move, what sensations does that bring? "Visualization" of chi, it's just another dialog, chi has a feeling first, visualizations might occur, or might not, ot doesn't matter really, you can't force anything, even visually. Starting w/ Emptiness, letting everything go at first is the best place to start. The exercise after this was to one by one observe every sound in a darkened room, then percieve the sound of every object in a darkened room. Then every night for 3 months we did push hands blindfolded. Hey he was my girlfriends father so I did what he said, his "mind expansion" programmed seemed to be working.... but anyways other acts of Simply Doing when your jamming to music, surfing, hanggliding, shamanically flying through a wudang taiji form, jamming on Taobums, whatever, make a little music.

 

Breathing with anything might produce sensations that you want to be a part of, visualization or spontaneous events that are occuring as a genuine conscious experience. Visualizations may occur spontaneously, but whatever happens happens, you always will have the beggining you can go back to. Hum with it. Start over if you need to. This is key, good foundations, anchoring, breath and intention are one. Breathing is the beggining of everything. Evening and morning is a good time to let everything go and melt into the wake/sleep state. I wouldn't try his (Chias) bone breathing until you get into the groove of a regular muscle and tendon changing routine to speak chia-nese. I jest. If you consider what meth does to peoples bone marrow it's not hard to see how improving the harmonics in our bodies by jumping through a few perspective hoops improves the qualitative aspects. If you've been :looking: that means you have reason to. The types of experiences you have to convince you to seek speaks of where to look; fancing meeting you here on TaoBums.

 

It's good to read a lot of information, take it in, soak in it. Always "try" things subtly. Focus on percieving what happens without any action on your part, OBSERVE the natural flow and order of the landscapes that your position offers you in reality. How many different ways does the sun and moon pass around the earth, look the qualititive patterns around you in which you wish to mimic.

 

When you feel like you've learned something, go eat some magic mushrooms on full moon atop a powerspot on Sedona and report back here to let us know if you see anything that resembles a different dimension.

 

Everyday life is profound. When you breath through your skin. Just try it barely and see if it does anything. When is the last time all the pores opened? Don't ever force anything. We don't force ourselves to eat food we don't like. Then again, don't combine arts. Stay true to the cultural artifacts that we're studying, and if you're lucky and in the right place at the right time you run accross people who you can practice face to face with and get a feel for what is going on. My long time tai chi friend just told me the other day to remember, chi gung is like eating, and tai chi (or any gung fu) is like digesting) The main points in the Chinese practices are the condition of the organs and meridians and the path towards circulating the orbit, which can mean something like one days energy in an hour, or an hours energy in a minute, or a years energy in a day. The orbit is profound there is no doubt about that as a concensses, that and stillness probably being the two most talked about states of realization and reflection on... nothing really. Thats the best part.

 

Finally, I ran into a guy named Gary Clyman, who does Emotional Liposuction in Chicago. I had a session with him some time ago, and he also demonstrated Iron Shirt (allowed me to strike him), but I'm wondering if he would be a reputable candidate to train with. He does seem a tad...well...unbalanced. I don't know how else to put it. Seems like a dedicated guy and quite friendly, but I just have nothing to really compare him to. Has anyone here ever worked with him?

 

I crossed paths with him in 1995. Just talked to him on the phone. A few times. I wasn't willing to pay $600 for his Chi Gung kit, but he taught Tai Chi and so I kinda kept a dialog w/ him for a couple weeks, I was 19 and extremely motivated to route the fire through the right channels. He sent me a few video and audio tapes I might actually still have if I look around. On Chi Gung and Tai Chi Chuan (Temple Style I think?) I was so motivated to do that orbit that I even went to a Buddhist Monk in the area who was a 25 yr acupuncturist to ask him to give me a treatment to do that. I didn't know how fortunate I was that I went to him because he was kinda on to what I was trying to do. He recommended Zen Sitting, less I go insane as he so politely put it. So I was looking everywhere. (accept where I should have been at the exercises that my mentor was guiding me with) Anyhow at the same time I was picking Gary Clymans brain, and the thing about this guy is... he REALLY has a lot of energy. It just comes off him. He's not joking, his chi gung works for him, I've seen some videos of his tai chi when he was young and skinny and it doesn't look bad. It looks like Yang. He has a good foundation in his wuji and stances. He knows enough to cough on some muggers. The emotional liposuction honestly sounds about like what a good chi gung healer does to a person, sets them up to have a fresh wind of chi blow through their system, and have the bad stuff sucked out at the same time. I mean that's ground zero for everyone, where you end up when you hit wuji after a breakthrough or after a deep tissue release or after sex (for a shorter period of time) essential Gary is teaching people how to hit that flow state themselves, everyday, repeatably. He seems convinced, and I can see why not because of him, but because of what Chi Gung has done to MY life. He seems like someone who looked into the art and found something. I have seen videos of him "orbiting" and he kinda pulses around and says its uncontrollable, which i personally question. I've experienced different, (not saying I havn't felt uncontrollable undulations, just not while orbiting) I seem to remember he's doing sacral pump contractions with his breathing and then doing tai chi simultaneously and this is his chi gung. Pretty circular methodlogy, sounds about right. But alas to far away.... and he wanted $600 i remember. At least that's what it seemed like. Fair enough. Pump pump pump and keep pumping your whole life. Yeah I probably looked at 15 different peoples systems all kinda saying similar things, had to find people local who I jived practicing with to really start making a difference. I was lucky in that my first teacher didn't know the "whole" system, but enough to convince me a tubby 45 yr old could be 'faster' by 'being slower', "by arriving second being first" and so on.... and enough to get me to start experimenting w/ standing meditation w/ conscious breathing, and single point meditations using a barbell weight. Solid physical foundation w/ the goal being psychological breakthrough. The idea being that idea is no different then physical being, that our mind body duality is an illusion and that in natural moments of human potential being unleased the mind and body works together in perfect harmony. Martial art circles are useful, especially for spotting harmony if your looking for it. you can learn how to defend yourself, I have spent a while in a few circles as I learned from my first teacher in this taoist tradition, as i've grown older I had the opportunity to train w/ Sei Gung my grandfather or teachers teacher in the Chinese Arts and learned about slowing down the mind in Chi Gung and breathing deeper into the physical practices of opening and elongating the body, and closing and contracting the body. Emptiness is the place to start and exists as the center of the wheel of all our attributes we experience as a physical mandala of consciousness.

 

We start with nothing when we are brought into the world, nothing but who we are. At the beggining of practice it's always best to start with an empty cup. Practice fills your cup with something. Perhaps we can all share a cup of tea someday.

 

Spectrum

Edited August 16, 2007 by Spectrum

[Trunk]

Can anyone clearly outline for me the concensus as to which parts of Mantak Chia's system work (if any), and which do not.

I've been hanging out with this cyber-community for longer than I want to admit - some yrs - and I must say that we've uncovered more injurious bullshit, half-truths, and mis-direction in Chia's system than you can shake a stick at. It's really around every corner. When there's been attempts by students to address concerns, they're met with slick protectionism at the expense of truth and students' welfare.

 

AlchemicalTaoism.com has some of the community archives, some good information, in a much more polite tone, all free. (I'm the webmaster there.) A considerable improvement, but even that is students-helping-students.

 

David Shen Verdesi's Foundation Training Forum has made a splash around here lately. SeanDenty was an envoy of that, here, and if you read through his posts in the John Chang Video thread, that should help. Also, Sunshine has taken one of the foundation courses and is keeping a blog, worth reading.

 

Hope this helps.

[Spectrum]

Cyber dialog is not a replacement for real people, I've found a lot of threads of truth through literature as well, some starting w/ online references, others ending in art books.

 

Dialog is important to "get stuff out" there as well.

 

Trunk, I didn't put the two together that you webmastered the essay page. <smack self on forehead>

 

That's quite a work Now!

 

Spectrum

[freeform]

I prefer Michael Winn to Chia (www.healingtaousa.com)

 

I would also take up Hundun's offer. It's great to have someone to practice with, especially someone with more experience.

 

It's best not practice from books alone - especially sexual and iron shirt techniques.

[Guest sykkelpump]

I have a question about teachers. I've read some of Mantak Chia's books, but I've also heard (here and elsewhere) controversy about his system. I've been burned badly by several martial arts teachers in the past, so I'm even more wary now, considering the time involved and the potential for injury in Taoist practices. Put honestly, I simply do not have enough time or energy at this point in my life to be "taken" anymore.

 

Can anyone clearly outline for me the concensus as to which parts of Mantak Chia's system work (if any), and which do not. Or at least which parts are verifiably true and not made up? Are there any more accurate or reliable books out there that anyone can point out, besides the various Mantak books?

 

Finally, I ran into a guy named Gary Clyman, who does Emotional Liposuction in Chicago. I had a session with him some time ago, and he also demonstrated Iron Shirt (allowed me to strike him), but I'm wondering if he would be a reputable candidate to train with. He does seem a tad...well...unbalanced. I don't know how else to put it. Seems like a dedicated guy and quite friendly, but I just have nothing to really compare him to. Has anyone here ever worked with him?

 

Any advice?

Hei,I have tried clymans stuff and it is ok,and I have tried chias stuff and I dont like it.My experience is that chi kung works easy for some,but not for most of the people.And the sucess depends on how open your energy channels is.If they are not enough open you wount succed with chikung.My advice to you is to start meditaing because it opens the energy channels in a natural way and at the same time generating chi.here is two good links:

 

http://www.aypsite.com/

 

 

http://meditationexpert.com/ebok/howtomeditate.pdf

[Cameron]

My favorite two Tao guys I know are Ken Cohen and Master Tseng.

 

Ken is qigonghealing.com

 

Tseng(Chen) is wudangtao.com

 

Can't comment on Chia as I never met him. From what I have experienced with his students the approach is not for me, but I never went deeply enough into it to bash or praise it.

[sunshine]

Do yourself the favor and really spend some time reading through "Trunk"'s work. It is really a treasure house

 

something to keep in mind before picking up any practice is: what do you actually want to achieve?

 

 

Harry

[Guest sykkelpump]

I dont understand this talking about what do you want to achive? There is only one way no matter what you want to achive.And that is to open the energy channels and generating more chi.There is not one type of chi for this and another type for something else you wanna achive.And there is only two methods for this as far as I know.and that is stopping the mind using diffrent meditation methods,or chikung.but it seems like you need to already have opened your energychannels to some degree before you will get any great results with chikung.And also very importent,find a method that works and stay with it.using more time to practice than searching the internett for shortcuts that dont exist.

[Zasafras]

I dont understand this talking about what do you want to achive? There is only one way no matter what you want to achive.And that is to open the energy channels and generating more chi.There is not one type of chi for this and another type for something else you wanna achive.And there is only two methods for this as far as I know.and that is stopping the mind using diffrent meditation methods,or chikung.but it seems like you need to already have opened your energychannels to some degree before you will get any great results with chikung.And also very importent,find a method that works and stay with it.using more time to practice than searching the internett for shortcuts that dont exist.

 

 

for me, "What do you want to achieve" is really just knowing what you are really looking for, that way you can help yourself find it, instead of finding something short of that along the way, and getting distracted by it. Again, for me it is all about my intention. What do I intend to learn, what do I intend to gain, what am I looking for, what is it that I am really seeking?

 

If you can really answer that (which is alot harder then what most would think ) you will be that much closer to really finding it, and I think that is why we are all here, to find what we are looking for.

[Guest sykkelpump]

for me, "What do you want to achieve" is really just knowing what you are really looking for, that way you can help yourself find it, instead of finding something short of that along the way, and getting distracted by it. Again, for me it is all about my intention. What do I intend to learn, what do I intend to gain, what am I looking for, what is it that I am really seeking?

 

If you can really answer that (which is alot harder then what most would think ) you will be that much closer to really finding it, and I think that is why we are all here, to find what we are looking for.

 

hmm,Isnt we talking about spirutual development and health,which comes toghether.you seems to be a little confused

[Tao-Newbie]

Wow! What a friendly forum! It took me half an hour to read all the replies!

 

First, a big thank you to everyone for all the advice. Lots to look into now.

 

Well, onto my specific replies (I'll combine them in one post).

 

Hundun wrote:

 

what are your goals? it's hard to give you a legitimate answer without knowing that.

 

On a general level, opening the energy channels and generating more chi, as Sykkelpump mentions. But more specifically, the reason I want to do that is twofold. First, to generate better health. I have issues that I believe could benefit from the practice and overall just want more energy to do all the things I want to do. And secondly, for use in martial arts. I'd like to be able to generate much more power in my techniques and also eventually develop Iron Shirt.

 

i always took it as a given that one must always have the time and energy to be "taken." path working is not a vacation, and neither is enlightenment, assuming one realizes it. one of the lessons in letting go of one's attachments is being able to abandon ANYTHING at a moment's notice, as soon as one realizes that it no longer serves them.

 

I understand all that, but at the same time I don't want to spend months or even years only to then discover that I've been wasting my time (ie not achieving the results I could/should), or worse, finding out that the practice was taught wrong and then having worse health issues to deal with due to the practice.

 

there is much that you could learn from either teacher, but if your hope is to look for someone you can follow so you can just relax and glide through their framework, i'd say that you've got some re-thinking to do. you and only you are responsible for your development. no one else can be an expert on you. it's good to get rooted in a discipline, but so many people forget that the internal arts are, first and foremost, AN ART.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not afraid of hard work, dedication, and lots of practice. And I'm usually pretty good at picking out good teachers from frauds (now I am...have gotten very wary after initial bad incidents). But with people like Mantak Chia, the information is there and easy to access, but when I met him he refused to demonstrate any proof of his ability, which is absolutely essential in my eyes. I think if someone can claim an ability, he should be able (and willing) to demonstrate it. On the other hand, I've heard that all of Mantak's material in his books is basically ripped off other teachers. Which is his own karma if true. My only concern is whether the info in his books is both effective and safe.

 

i've read well over a hundred books related to internal cultivation and spiritual development, so i never go into an author's work with the illusion that they will possess all that i'll ever need to know. i do that work myself.

 

Agreed. No one teacher is likely to have all the answers. I do want to find one that can give me a really good foundation though, that won't get my started down the wrong path so to speak.

 

you're right about clyman. there's no ambiguity about his inflated ego and delusions of grandeur. in my opinion he is marketing his own sense of greatness through gimmicks (emotional liposuction?), not so much leading people to realize their highest potential. however, that's not to say that you couldn't learn something of value from him. i personally think his 'forceful' approach to cultivation is dangerous, and that he and his students are actually quite lucky that he DOESN'T have a lot of skill. but it depends again on your goals as well as how far along you are in your growth and maturing process.

 

I've always been a big believer in that old adage about emulating your teachers strong points while avoiding his weak points or something along those lines. From having had a session of his emotional liposuction, I have to say it definitely does work. I was highly skeptical at the time, but I really can't argue with the results. After what felt like an exorcism done with a red hot poker, he removed energy from what he called my "rage" point. For weeks afterwards I actually tried getting outraged and angry, but I simply could not. The rage and anger that had me ranting like a maniac for months before the treatment was just somehow gone.

 

I also had Clyman punch me in the abs. I can take a good punch, and he only punched from a few inches away, but it felt like a hand grenade had gone off in my abdomen. The energy just exploded inside me and I thought "Whoa. That's different!". Never been hit like that before. He said it was a light hit, so I can't even imagine what a really powerful one would have been like. Don't think I'd want to feel that!

 

And again, he demonstrated his Iron Shirt, so that impressed me. He does seem to have a great ego, but otherwise he seems really friendly and helpful, so I'm not feeling too many bells going off. It's just a bit unnerving being around anyone so bursting with energy.

 

Right now with family issues and a new business, money is a tad too tight (his training is pretty expensive...$750 to $2,000 depending on the course). Otherwise, I think I'd be working with him now. Hopefully by the end of the year. Which is why I was wondering about Chia's books, so I could start working on the microcosmic orbit and things like that until I can train in person. Just didn't want to start doing it all wrong.

 

And there are some dangerous people out there. I've heard nothing but horror stories about one of Mantak's students dealing with molesting clients, which the guy did to the sister of a friend of mine. Another guy claims that everyone is doing the microcosmic orbit backwards and that for men it goes up the front and down the back, which is the reverse of anything I've ever heard. (Has anyone ever heard such a thing?)

 

i actually have a student/friend in the chicago area that i could maybe put you in touch with. he's talented and has enough skill to demonstrate his ability with qi. i'm willing to bet that he can manifest as much, if not more qi flow than clyman can, but that's not what he's about. he doesn't teach at present, but he could prove to be a good friend with whom you could work out some of your concerns and explore some of your interests. i would need to know about you,your goals, your history, your age, and that kind of thing, but i'm willing to bet that you would benefit from meeting with him.

 

if interested, send me a private message. we'll talk.

 

I'll do that. Thanks!

 

Spectrum wrote:

 

Anyhow at the same time I was picking Gary Clymans brain, and the thing about this guy is... he REALLY has a lot of energy. It just comes off him. He's not joking, his chi gung works for him,

 

Yup. Like I said earlier, it just radiates off him. And he's the first person I've come across who was willing to demonstrate his Iron Shirt as well as hit me back!

 

The emotional liposuction honestly sounds about like what a good chi gung healer does to a person, sets them up to have a fresh wind of chi blow through their system, and have the bad stuff sucked out at the same time.

 

What's mindboggling is how painful it can be! I'm pretty resistant to pain, but this was like passing a kidney stone that was on fire! By the time we finished, I was soaked with sweat from the pain. Yikes!

 

Trunk wrote:

 

I've been hanging out with this cyber-community for longer than I want to admit - some yrs - and I must say that we've uncovered more injurious bullshit, half-truths, and mis-direction in Chia's system than you can shake a stick at. It's really around every corner. When there's been attempts by students to address concerns, they're met with slick protectionism at the expense of truth and students' welfare.

 

Precisely my concern! I'm trying to figure out if he at least has the basics (where I'll be starting) written correctly. For example, in his Microcosmic Orbit book, is the basic practice correct? Can I safely do it from his written instructions without worrying about screwing things up? I can't afford in-person instruction at the moment, so I want to find at least a good, well written book that can get me started on foundation practice.

 

Finally, Sunshine wrote:

 

something to keep in mind before picking up any practice is: what do you actually want to achieve?

 

Like I said earlier, mainly health benefits and being able to apply chi energy to my martial arts techniques. I'm not getting any younger and faster!

 

Thanks again everyone, and I look forward to more conversation here.

[sunshine]

I dont understand this talking about what do you want to achive? There is only one way no matter what you want to achive.And that is to open the energy channels and generating more chi.There is not one type of chi for this and another type for something else you wanna achive.And there is only two methods for this as far as I know.and that is stopping the mind using diffrent meditation methods,or chikung.but it seems like you need to already have opened your energychannels to some degree before you will get any great results with chikung.

 

See sykkelpump

 

>>Like I said earlier, mainly health benefits and being able to apply chi energy to my martial arts techniques.<<

 

This is the reason the question asked is at least a practical and to me necessary one. Depending on what one wants to achieve one can choose from a different spectrum. Your statement about having to have ones channels open first before getting any "great" results with chikung might be true, but that chikung can't help you open channels is far from the truth as many of the forum sure will tell you as well. And it is not just about opening channels and generating more Qi.

 

Tao-Newbie:

If you want health: look for a good balanced Qigong that claims no more than that, depending on specific health issues you might want to pick up some kind of medical Qigong. Maybe check out Dr. Tan:

www.drtanshow.com

While I haven't had the chance to do the Qigong with him so far I know him from his acupuncture classes. highly recommendable!

 

If you want something for [i]martial arts [/i]I hear that SIFU WONG KIEW KIT is a pretty fine choice: http://wongkk.com/

 

hope that helps

 

 

Harry

Edited August 17, 2007 by sunshine

[Trunk]

.. Microcosmic Orbit ..

It's a more complex topic than you are suspecting.

 

First, read the orbit section at the site I referenced.

Second, employ the TaoBums advance search engine (link). Here's the results I got for searching "orbit" (link). Read through the threads. This has been discussed before.

Digest all that for a while, re-read as you like, digest some more - then come back and let's see where you're at.

 

 

~ later edit ~

I know you wanted a simple answer, so here's the simple version.

.. if he at least has the basics (where I'll be starting) written correctly. For example, in his Microcosmic Orbit book, is the basic practice correct? Can I safely do it from his written instructions without worrying about screwing things up?

No.

Someone said sometime back, something like "those that haven't practiced previous systems are considered lucky, cause they're not screwed up" - and it's true.

 

Throw away your Chia books, don't look back, and save yourself years of trouble.

 

Scott Sonnon's intu-flow is a simple system that's healthy, and is good prep for later Taoist work, if you later find an authentic teacher. (Though his online community is, I hear, wacky - but you don't need that, just follow the dvd.) That and some very simple meditation, like following your breath.

 

(And if you want more info on intu-flow, search TaoBums threads for "Sonnon".)

[sunshine]

It's a more complex topic than you are suspecting

 

And just if you care to know. In the school I am currently learning with the MCO only comes after many many many many many many many many many years of practices....!

 

& some info from my teach Oleg on the MCO (from his teachings point of view):

http://www.inbiworld.com/academy_program_a...mp;newacademy=1

 

 

Harry

Edited August 18, 2007 by sunshine