martial artists in the real world?

[Nungali]

Yep ... that what makes Dave Brown's aikido seminars so good ... he cross trained all over the place ... doesnt do what doesnt work and concentrates on the bits that did.

 

'Purists' seem to have trouble with that ... Dave has other 'good cred; so in Aikido so he gets away with it .... someone like me ... people say I 'corrupt the style' ... yet I have a similar take on Aikido to Dave <shrug>

[YawningMind]

I've always found it bizarre how much time martial artists spend with antiquated weapons like commas, er kamas. Where do you even find those?

 

If only more martial arts incorporated guns, and effective techniques thereof. The equivalent of a wooden practice sword could be a paintball or airsoft gun.

[GrandmasterP]

+1

Anyone who takes a knife to a gun fight is going down.

Edited June 26, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Nungali]

I've always found it bizarre how much time martial artists spend with antiquated weapons like commas, er kamas.

 

Hey!

 

 

 

What if someone attacks me one way home from the rice paddies ?

 

< Geeze .... next he will be saying training with Eku is a bit weird. >

 

Where do you even find those?

 

Errrr mmmm ... at the martial arts shop (in the weapons section ) .... in Okinawa; at the hardware store.

 

 

If only more martial arts incorporated guns, and effective techniques thereof. The equivalent of a wooden practice sword could be a paintball or airsoft gun.

 

A wooden sword need not be for practice only ... its a home defense weapon ... they are good for subduing someone without hacking bits of their body off.

[Rara]

 

 

Thats why a REAL fighting style (as opposed to a sport or competition) is going to be a better self defence training option.

 

In a real situation a weapon may be close to hand ( see Russian fight - knife Vs Stick ... Youtube wont let me open it today.) THIS is the way to defend yourself against a knife in a real situation ... I have seen so many WRONG! martial arts knife 'defence' vids and .

 

OR an evasion behind something ... or an escape ... or throw something or .... please dont try to grab the knife arm or wrist

 

yes ... martial arts in the real world.

 

 

Thats why I detest some type of 'instruction' like this ; Jiyu waza ... instructor tells my opponents not to attack until I look at them and 'dont moster him' - the kid that tried to 'monster me' ended up taking the wrong line ( my criticism) from a blind rear attack (no criticism there at all from me) and ended up being thrown into the other opposing two.

 

In 'real life' if I am attacked by multiple hostiles ... I will just

 

 

 

... say "Hang on a minute chaps" and set up my Porta-player and play some nice classical piano music and then " okay, lets do it! "

Yes definitely...never, EVER go close quarters when opponent has a knife.

[Rara]

I've always found it bizarre how much time martial artists spend with antiquated weapons like commas, er kamas. Where do you even find those?

 

If only more martial arts incorporated guns, and effective techniques thereof. The equivalent of a wooden practice sword could be a paintball or airsoft gun.

A lot of the time, it's out of tradition. If I train with a pole, for example, in a real life situation you gotta think that the motions applied could easily be transferred over to say, picking up a lead pipe or pool cue.

 

Guns, well, I guess....RUUUUUUN! In zig-zags.

 

Just effin' run!

[GreytoWhite]

I've always found it bizarre how much time martial artists spend with antiquated weapons like commas, er kamas. Where do you even find those?

 

If only more martial arts incorporated guns, and effective techniques thereof. The equivalent of a wooden practice sword could be a paintball or airsoft gun.

 

You might like Systema.

[Nungali]

Yes definitely...never, EVER go close quarters when opponent has a knife.

 

I wont post them but there are a heap of vids around with bo (long staff) against kama and short bladed weapons (where the kama wins) and the Bo guy never attacks their feet, ankles and toes... which is one of the big advantages of such a long blunt weapon . They move in to range and then get cut. Ever tried to block a flurry of foot attacks with a short weapon like sai or karma - it aint easy and might require a bit of 'going to ground' (getting low enough so the weapon nearly touch the ground , dont rely on this

 

 

 

The sai doesnt nearly reach low enough... and Bo form Suiechi No Kon Dai, last move is specific counter, the missed strike is followed by a lunge and a 'pool shot' thrust to the back ankle, and still be out of range of the sai and the potentially kicking front foot.

 

Of course all that might be moot if one realises the real method of sai is 3 sai, one in the back of the belt ... maybe dude above is out of range of the Bo and he is about to throw a sai ( they nasty when you do that, even if you dont throw at them, hitting the ground in front can cause it to bounce up all whirly and 'proingey' in your face ... then the extra is drawn from the belt.

 

I know ... not in the real world.

 

But what if I get attacked on the way home by these guys ?

 

Edited June 29, 2014 by Nungali

[Nungali]

+1

Anyone who takes a knife to a gun fight is going down.

 

Maybe. Just make sure if their knife is out, your gun better be too and (as a wise person around here commented elsewhere) safety off ... and you are far enough away

 

[Rara]

 

I wont post them but there are a heap of vids around with bo (long staff) against kama and short bladed weapons (where the kama wins) and the Bo guy never attacks their feet, ankles and toes... which is one of the big advantages of such a long blunt weapon . They move in to range and then get cut. Ever tried to block a flurry of foot attacks with a short weapon like sai or karma - it aint easy and might require a bit of 'going to ground' (getting low enough so the weapon nearly touch the ground , dont rely on this

 

 

 

The sai doesnt nearly reach low enough... and Bo form Suiechi No Kon Dai, last move is specific counter, the missed strike is followed by a lunge and a 'pool shot' thrust to the back ankle, and still be out of range of the sai and the potentially kicking front foot.

 

Of course all that might be moot if one realises the real method of sai is 3 sai, one in the back of the belt ... maybe dude above is out of range of the Bo and he is about to throw a sai ( they nasty when you do that, even if you dont throw at them, hitting the ground in front can cause it to bounce up all whirly and 'proingey' in your face ... then the extra is drawn from the belt.

 

I know ... not in the real world.

 

But what if I get attacked on the way home by these guys ?

 

Hehe, sure Of course, I was talking if one had a knife and the victim was unarmed.

 

If you get attacked by THOSE guys on the way home, I suggest...well, do you own a jetpack?

[chenplayer]

I find this an interesting thread, espically about knife attacks. Funny thing is no matter how many "realistic" martial art styles you learn and no matter how good the knife disarms work or look like it works, you will never really be fully prepared to tackle an agressor who has a knife. The reason being in all of those demonstrations it never a real knife and if it is it is never a life and death struggle. Biggest thing you cant train for is being cut and the mental strain it puts on you when you do get cut (not even talking about getting stabbed). Su dong Chen (look him up, awesome teacher) was asked how he would deal with a knife attack. He rolled up his sleves showing his scars from actual knife attacks, pulls out a knife and cuts himself with out a hint of hesitation. Story being is he has been cut so many time from practice and actual knife attacks the fear is no longer there. He knows he will get cut, he just has to focus on reducing said damage.

 

Just like when you practice sparring with or without a skilled person as you opponent. You will be hit, you will get hurt, but the more you do it the less you fear being hit/hurt, and the less you fear the more you can deal with the situation. Show me a man (or women) who has never been hit EVER in martial arts and i will show you some one who can't fight.

 

P.S. funny side story from one of the Gracies (don't know exactly who i think it was Ralph), Give me a black belt in jiujitsu who has never fought, and I punch him in the face, he becomes a brown belt. I punch him again he becomes a purple belt, until utimatley he is a white belt then i choke him out.

[Nungali]

ummm yeah ,,, the guy I watched doing practice knife drills (in the Philippines) doing it with a really old guy, who was all over him, by the way, had the nastiest looking facial scars ... I would have crossed the street just looking at him.

 

I ha a Filipino (hey ... spell check did that) friend when I young, we had to tell him he didnt need to carry the knife around here. I had some rumbles with him, before I ever took my first martial arts class, only wrestling before that. He always had a crouched stance (to protect the vital organs he said - this is a school kid !) and was always looking out for others, and leading you into uneven terrain etc, the whole bit. All learnt from neccessity.

 

Its true, guys knife fight there in the street like this

 

 

 

 

Also ... no ... THIS is a knife!

 

 

(as I said earlier many of the kama (and sai forms) can be translated to machette , single or double )

 

 

Dan knows the real shit ... his weapons book is great but it got censored - he was asked to remove the knife stuff from it .

 

They dont want more people knowing the 'art' of Filipino knife fighting.

 

And you aint gonna learn NOTHING like that in Aikido with a tanto !

Edited June 30, 2014 by Nungali

[chenplayer]

I agree Dan is awesome

[Mark Foote]

I have a short piece of broom handle I keep around, about 3 feet. Funny to read some other folks here also have a stick around.

 

Yes, I know that mostly the correct defense is give them the money and put both hands in the air.

 

I was working as a janitor at a place one time, wringing out the mop behind the store, when a guy jumped the fence and started raising something in a brown paper bag (through which I could see metal). I did the only natural thing and grabbed the barrel.

 

And then I let go, because I realized he wasn't going to hurt anybody. He was pissed. Marched us all into the office and left us face down on the floor (yes he took the weekend receipts).

 

I guess I was trained to do that by my judo instructor, close distance, but who's to say how to stay out of trouble. Pray for the best for everyone involved, and I do mean everyone, that is my strategy.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Mark Foote

[Rara]

I find this an interesting thread, espically about knife attacks. Funny thing is no matter how many "realistic" martial art styles you learn and no matter how good the knife disarms work or look like it works, you will never really be fully prepared to tackle an agressor who has a knife. The reason being in all of those demonstrations it never a real knife and if it is it is never a life and death struggle. Biggest thing you cant train for is being cut and the mental strain it puts on you when you do get cut (not even talking about getting stabbed). Su dong Chen (look him up, awesome teacher) was asked how he would deal with a knife attack. He rolled up his sleves showing his scars from actual knife attacks, pulls out a knife and cuts himself with out a hint of hesitation. Story being is he has been cut so many time from practice and actual knife attacks the fear is no longer there. He knows he will get cut, he just has to focus on reducing said damage.

 

Just like when you practice sparring with or without a skilled person as you opponent. You will be hit, you will get hurt, but the more you do it the less you fear being hit/hurt, and the less you fear the more you can deal with the situation. Show me a man (or women) who has never been hit EVER in martial arts and i will show you some one who can't fight.

 

P.S. funny side story from one of the Gracies (don't know exactly who i think it was Ralph), Give me a black belt in jiujitsu who has never fought, and I punch him in the face, he becomes a brown belt. I punch him again he becomes a purple belt, until utimatley he is a white belt then i choke him out.

Yep, chances are in the heat of the moment, one will go for what they learned in training and get their wrist cut because the knife attacker panicks and starts flapping. Lol to the Gracie story!

[Daeluin]

Radiate trust.

Be one with all.

Dissolve and penetrate everything.

The one who faces you with evil intent will find they point the gun at their own head.

When attempting to aim at you, they cannot find you.

But you are one with everything.

The only thing to aim at is their self.

 

I figure this is tao forum, and tao is all about fighting by not fighting.

Sure it takes decades of sincerity to reach achievements like this.

But what is more powerful?

[GrandmasterP]

About a Taoist hermitage out in Idaho and a guy who lives there who went to improve his martial arts and talks about where he moved on from wanting to do that and why.

Anyone know if the hermitage is still operating?

It looks to be a pretty remote spot and there only looked to be three people involved.

Edited July 1, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Nungali]

Radiate trust.

Be one with all.

Dissolve and penetrate everything.

The one who faces you with evil intent will find they point the gun at their own head.

When attempting to aim at you, they cannot find you.

But you are one with everything.

The only thing to aim at is their self.

 

I figure this is tao forum, and tao is all about fighting by not fighting.

Sure it takes decades of sincerity to reach achievements like this.

But what is more powerful?

 

Sounds nice. ... But note the thread title

 

You'd be cut ... or shot .... repeatedly.

 

Philosophical sentiments ( eg. But you are one with everything. The only thing to aim at is their self.) work best when projected with solid (earth-based or 'reality' ) practical ability behind it.

[Nungali]

I have a short piece of broom handle I keep around, about 3 feet. Funny to read some other folks here also have a stick around.

 

Yes, I know that mostly the correct defense is give them the money and put both hands in the air.

 

Yep .... thats not really a concern. There are professional concerns though, also issues of things like crack/ice-fuelled home invaders that have evil plans for your family, etc.

 

Here is a bit more of Dan in a police training video. Again, dont mess with the knife unless you REALLY * have learnt how to use one (and that should include learning what to do when someone else has one).

 

* I had a friend that did SAS training ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Air_Service_Regiment ) he said "You look at the way a person holds the knife and then you can tell if they know how to use it or not."

 

Okay then ... so he confidently sets up against me with my training knife (which had a felt edge with red ink on it - because I got tired of some people not even knowing they have been cut in training ) and straight away he goes "Oh ... see, I can tell you dont even know how to use the knife." So I waved it around a bit to distract his attention and then kicked him in the nuts, and 'flurried' him as he went down ( why to people always try to shuffle back, withdraw the groin, or block a low kick with their arms and not use their legs or feet that are already down there ? ).

 

He admitted he might be wrong about his first assesment idea ... "I didnt think you were going to trick me like that" he said.

 

 

Years ago a friend got accosted by some giant idiot and he goes " WEll, dickhead, you are so stupid that you are threatening me and the cops are just over there watching you." The guy turns around to look .... and wallop!

[Nungali]

Ooops .... I forgot to

 

[Mark Foote]

Wow, Nungali, I don't think I'll be sharing that around. Don't want anybody to get any ideas.

 

S'interesting to me that Dan the man there seems to be holding the blade back along his forearm-- his cutting figure-eights remind me a lot of Zato-ichi's sword style (which is Shintaro Katsu's invention, if I understand correctly). Makes sense to me, though, and remind me to stay out of dark alleys in filipino neighborhoods...

[Daeluin]

Sounds nice. ... But note the thread title

 

You'd be cut ... or shot .... repeatedly.

 

Philosophical sentiments ( eg. But you are one with everything. The only thing to aim at is their self.) work best when projected with solid (earth-based or 'reality' ) practical ability behind it.

 

The thread title, I see, is "martial arts in the real world?"

Do you study tao? Following tao about becoming real human.

 

You say philosophical sentiments. Do you not believe in real humans?

There are many posts here, by some of the most respected members here, who have had taoist masters speak in their minds. That not real?

 

You say you will be cut and shot. Ahahaha. Path of radiating trust deep and long. But walking this path develops "real world" skill at slipping past conflicts and enemies. People who always look for trouble don't even find you. A few years of sincerity and this already attainable. Over time you learn how easy to slip past others minds. With mastery you ignore conflict and it rebounds upon itself. Very real.

 

If you disagree that fine. Carry on.

 

Edit: Perhaps this isn't considered a "martial" art. But certainly one way of dealing with them.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Daeluin

[mace134]

ummm yeah ,,, the guy I watched doing practice knife drills (in the Philippines) doing it with a really old guy, who was all over him, by the way, had the nastiest looking facial scars ... I would have crossed the street just looking at him.

 

I ha a Filipino (hey ... spell check did that) friend when I young, we had to tell him he didnt need to carry the knife around here. I had some rumbles with him, before I ever took my first martial arts class, only wrestling before that. He always had a crouched stance (to protect the vital organs he said - this is a school kid !) and was always looking out for others, and leading you into uneven terrain etc, the whole bit. All learnt from neccessity.

 

Its true, guys knife fight there in the street like this

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOal8oXTK10

 

 

 

Also ... no ... THIS is a knife!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ_RvPMBwfw

 

(as I said earlier many of the kama (and sai forms) can be translated to machette , single or double )

 

 

Dan knows the real shit ... his weapons book is great but it got censored - he was asked to remove the knife stuff from it .

 

They dont want more people knowing the 'art' of Filipino knife fighting.

 

And you aint gonna learn NOTHING like that in Aikido with a tanto !

If you can find a good jkd school you can get some kali knife and stick fighting no doubt because of Mr. Inosanto.

He used to give seminars in ny during the 90's but I dont know if he still does.