tyler zambori Posted June 22, 2014 I found this quote this morning: The thing is, it’s patriarchy that says men are stupid and monolithic and unchanging and incapable. It’s patriarchy that says men have animalistic instincts and just can’t stop themselves from harassing and assaulting. It’s patriarchy that says men can only be attracted by certain qualities, can only have particular kinds of responses, can only experience the world in narrow ways. Feminism holds that men are capable of more – are more than that. Feminism says that men are better than that, can change, are capable of learning, and have the capacity to be decent and wonderful people.It would be wonderful if more men wouldn’t try to twist their way out of engaging with ideas that threaten their unfairly gained place in the world, and just went for it. If you’re a person, you have the ability to become a better one. Personhood is one thing on which one should definitely not chicken out. It's from: On claiming to be a stupid man who doesn’t know anythinghttp://zeroatthebone.wordpress.com/2011/11/22/on-claiming-to-be-a-stupid-man-who-doesnt-know-anything/ I'm not posting it here because of the title of the blog post, but because I thought that particular part of the blog post was really smart. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 22, 2014 In a twisted kind of way I actually agree with the quote. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gendao Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) Just out of curiosity, what kind of men then did feminists and their mothers cherry-pick when exercising their individual powers of choice (sexual voting) in their own personal lives? And what about the majority of women? The stereotype they are complaining about...or "smart, decent and wonderful ones?" Edited June 22, 2014 by vortex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tyler zambori Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) http://www.dazeddigital.com/artsandculture/article/18737/1/how-to-be-a-bad-feminist But seriously... Sarcasm aside, the only damaging approach to feminism is one that disregards the "complexities of human experience or individuality" – and that includes the stonewalling of important discussion and critique via wholly unhelpful terms (like "misogofeminists"), which contributes to an unhealthy culture of refusal to examine our views and what informs them. Already, there are way too many articles decrying feminism for its witch-hunt militancy and purported epidemic of infighting, but failing entirely to highlight the changes the movement has affected, its support network, and the vital feeling of personal empowerment that comes at the moment of consciously self-identifying as a feminist. Although the intellectual mobility afforded by the internet has gone a long way in shaping the views of recent generations, the differences highlighted between feminisms are not necessarily generational, but ideological. Feminists do not share in some kind of collective consciousness, nor do they expect each other to embody the outmoded stereotype — "militant, perfect in their politics and person, man hating, humorless" — that, as Gay says, rightly belongs to myth. So despite widespread misperceptions of feminism, I will never denounce the term or its ongoing necessity. As Gay puts it, "I’m full of contradictions [but] I would rather be a bad feminist than no feminist at all." Edited June 22, 2014 by tyler zambori Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted June 22, 2014 What is the exact purpose of this thread? 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 22, 2014 What is the exact purpose of this thread? I have no idea but I'm going to be here to make sure we don't start talking about which sex is better than the other. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted June 22, 2014 I have no idea but I'm going to be here to make sure we don't start talking about which sex is better than the other. Cheers, thanks! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tyler zambori Posted June 22, 2014 The purpose is to discuss what feminsim can do for men. Which is what I titled it. I have never said that any sex is better than any other sex. But if Marblehead is willing to keep other people from doing that, sure that would be great. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 22, 2014 The purpose is to discuss what feminsim can do for men. Which is what I titled it. I have never said that any sex is better than any other sex. But if Marblehead is willing to keep other people from doing that, sure that would be great. I will do my best. And yes, the concept, as you presented it has potential for a great, productive discussion. For a man, taking the yin polarity, the feminine, is a time for rest, a time for peace, the end of killing and greed. The end of so many negative aspects of the yang (masculine) culture. And yes, I used the word "culture" intentionally. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mike 134 Posted June 22, 2014 Feminism emasculates men and masculates women. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 22, 2014 Feminism emasculates men and masculates women. Tell me more. I think I disagree with the second half but I'm not sure of what you are saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sloppy Zhang Posted June 22, 2014 Aw yeah, feminism thread. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aetherous Posted June 22, 2014 The type of feminism where equal rights and conditions for women is sought, is a great thing. A lot of the time I think it goes far beyond that, though...and then there are people seeking unequal power, seeking to destroy the opponent (men and "the patriarchy"...which doesn't exist), coming from a place of fear and hatred, etc...rather than just seeking equality for the oppressed and justice for all. Of course this corrupted kind (which I prefer to call feminazism) is no good at all, and is destructive to all. As mike123 said, it destroys both men and women.Just as the false kind of feminism is destructive to all, true feminism (seeking equality or basically proper treatment of human beings) is constructive for all. It's important to differentiate between simply seeking proper treatment, and seeking greater power than others.Anyway, I disagree with the quote in the OP and don't see where they got those ideas from. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) The purpose is to discuss what feminsim can do for men. Which is what I titled it. Interesting proposition indeed. In your own words, what do you think feminism can do for men? Prior to this, perhaps it would also be meaningful to give some idea what your thoughts are regarding what feminism can do for women, for comparative purposes, so that we may be allowed some insight into your mind in relation to this topic and its prospective course should a respectful, open debate/discussion or exchange were to develop. Looking at past trends, it probably will capture interest, maybe not. Time will tell. I just hope that in the event it does begin to gather momentum, that whoever chooses to participate do so in a spirit of kindness and empathy, and not use this platform as some sort of personal axe-grinder. Edited June 22, 2014 by C T 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted June 22, 2014 I have no idea but I'm going to be here to make sure we don't start talking about which sex is better than the other. Sorry to do this already marblehead ... but I think heterosexual sex with a female is FAR better than the other.... In my opinion ... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 22, 2014 Sorry to do this already marblehead ... but I think heterosexual sex with a female is FAR better than the other.... In my opinion ... That's okay. I do agree with you. But then I have never tried the other way so who am I to be making judgements? (No, I don't want to try it out just to see.) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Feminism emasculates men and masculates women. My 'feminist' friends dont make me feel that way at all. What sort of man gets emasculated by a woman anyway ? It seems to be against the viewpoint you are ascribing to ? Things are changing , cultural sexuaity is modifing ... as I asked elsewhere ... DUDES! Whats your plan ... whats your new model of masculinity ... do you have one? Are you going to try to perpetuate the old paradigm and stand there with your finger in the hole of a dam wall full of cracks and more and more leaks ... Or are you just going to blame the women for your own lack of self exploration and lack of insight and feel 'emasculated' and blame that on feminism ... for gods sake ... grow a backbone ... stand up for yourself and start acting like a man ... if you know what that means ! Edited June 23, 2014 by Nungali 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 23, 2014 Um...I think MH meant "gender," not sex. Yes I did but I wasn't going to let him get away with that comment without a response. Actually, when talking of this subject in this context I prefer using yin and yang as discriptors but masculine and feminine is okay too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted June 23, 2014 Aw yeah, feminism thread. ? Is that good ... or does it immediately mean a bad thread ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 23, 2014 What sort of man gets emasculated by a woman anyway ? It seems to be against the viewpoint you are ascribing to ? Yep. I think you got tricked up with male/female instead of yin and yang. But that's okay, ... maybe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 23, 2014 ? Is that good ... or does it immediately mean a bad thread ? This is going to be a good thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) Yes I did but I wasn't going to let him get away with that comment without a response. he he he . Actually, when talking of this subject in this context I prefer using yin and yang as discriptors but masculine and feminine is okay too. yeah .... but it is going to get down to it soon. . . . because now matter how yin, yang, masculine or feminine a 'person' is, they will still be discriminated against in the general social environment on basis of S E X . Ed; added, in the general social environment Edited June 23, 2014 by Nungali Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted June 23, 2014 yeah .... but it is going to get down to it soon. . . . because now matter how yin, yang, masculine or feminine a 'person' is, they will still be discriminated against on basis of S E X . Not on my watch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted June 23, 2014 I will start a list of what 'feminism' has done for me ... that I see as good and positive ... I'll come back to that ... it might take some time. Here is a start ... my prime feminist friend treats me like a real person ... she can come into my space, share and stay there and I dont feel she is scouting possibilities - serious ... I have had women look around and say "What a nice place ... and you are single are you ?" Also I have never had to say to her ; "No matter how much you bat your eyes like that or pull back your shoulders and poke your titties out, my answer is still no ... like it was the 4 times previous." They are also less likely to consider themselves powerless and reliant on men for protection and hence, make better martial arts students ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted June 23, 2014 Not on my watch. Correct .... I will edit my post accordingly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
