What can feminism do for men?

[Marblehead]

That plus large dog ...

Yes, that works very well. (Too bad it has to be though.)

[tyler zambori]

-

Edited July 2, 2014 by tyler zambori

[Sloppy Zhang]

When our society changes its collective attitude enough for women to be able to feel just as safe as men ~ Everywhere They Go ~ Then Men will win, because the women we Love and care for will be safe.

 

I will love the day I feel safe with my daughter/lover/sister/mother leaving the house with the same safety that I do.

 

Well... that's all relative, because even for guys it's a dangerous place...

 

It's nice of you to think like this, but, you know.. Having a female body you're just aware that you'll loose when it should come to physical violence. And that's a knowledge you acquire as a teenager when the boys switch to "natural doping", and never really loose.

 

By "natural doping" you mean the increase in testosterone production which helps with muscle growth?

 

Even that's relative for men, and not all men develop that way (plenty of skinny guys out there that can't build muscle to save their lives).

 

Not to mention short guys, guys with slow reflexes, guys who don't work out consistently...

 

And that's assuming an all natural, one on one fight. What if you run into a guy with a knife? A guy with friends? Even if it's man on man violence, there's plenty of situations in which just being a man won't make you any more safe.

 

But, of course, it's positive if you know that at least most of the society will or would help and protect them.

 

I think this also depends on the context.

 

Trying to find the video, but I saw one that was a huge compilation of guys harassing girls, and then getting their asses kicked by other guys around them.

[Andrei]

Having a female body you're just aware that you'll loose when it should come to physical violence. And that's a knowledge you acquire as a teenager when the boys switch to "natural doping", and never really loose.

 

This is not true, a female can defend herself with proper training, just as males do.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0dr-oj18a6Q

 

Edited June 25, 2014 by Andrei

[gendao]

When our society changes its collective attitude enough for women to be able to feel just as safe as men ~ Everywhere They Go ~ Then Men will win, because the women we Love and care for will be safe.

 

I will love the day I feel safe with my daughter/lover/sister/mother leaving the house with the same safety that I do.

Don't forget at home, too!

In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases.

A recent meta-analysis found that a woman’s perpetration of violence was the strongest predictor of her being a victim of partner violence.

But seriously, logically-speaking, I think anyone physically weaker (could be a woman, child, man, animal, etc.) just won't innately feel as safe as someone physically stronger. That is the "Law of the Jungle." Although, I would agree that people could certainly be counseled/healed to become less violent...(that's what marriage was for). However, people may still continue to fear the powerful potential of even a "tamed" tiger...

 

That all said, ultimately

. So, excessively using fear to control women and guilt to control men is thus ultimately disempowering and nonconstructive for them. See forbidden fruits & holy fire & brimstone..

 

 

But back to the OT, I think "alpha males" and hustlers are enjoying more empowering ("invulnerable") casual sex with far less ownership ("commitment"), unshackled from the traditional "patriarchal" roles and responsibilities as husbands and fathers now. Both genders have become far more sexually-objectified and the United States now has the highest percentage of 1-person households on the entire planet with 1/3 of its children living in homes without a father.

He was L.A.’s most prominent male feminist, a professor of gender studies who used his online presence to burnish his reputation. Then Hugo Schwyzer’s bad behavior—sex with students, substance abuse, and a chilling act of violence—came to light

Schwyzer—a boyish-looking man of 46 with reddish-brown hair, freckles, and an easy grin—had gone off his medications for bipolar disorder. They were right there in front of him, he said, “lined up.” Lithium. Seroquel. Klonopin. Wellbutrin. Lexapro.

the popular gender studies professor, who’d developed a national reputation for writing about sexuality and female empowerment, began ticking off his sins. “I fucked porn stars I met through my classes,” he tweeted. “I cheated on my wife and pretended to be reformed. I wrote an article in the Atlantic condemning age-disparate relationships the same week…that I was sleeping with a 23-year-old. And sexting a 27-year-old.

“I was a shitty writer and I was a fraud and I did try to kill my ex,”

Right away Schwyzer discovered that he enjoyed the attention from his young students, particularly the female ones. At the time, the mid-’90s, men who built their identities around championing equal rights for women weren’t exactly prevalent. Sensing this could work in his favor, Schwyzer began creating a persona for himself as a male feminist.

child of divorced parents, he’d grown up in the ’70s with his mother

His mom, Alison, taught philosophy at Monterey Peninsula College. She was also an ardent feminist who raised her sons to believe that women should have the same opportunities and rights as men. Schwyzer loved telling the story of seeing Ms. magazine on the coffee table as a boy. He also loved recounting how his mother had influenced his desire to teach feminism.

Schwyzer required his students, most of them minority women in their late teens and early twenties, to keep journals.

In reality he used the journals to suss out potential sex partners, he told me.

In 1998, Schwyzer, now divorced from his second wife, would see his destructive behavior catch up with him. After a drug and alcohol binge, he landed in the hospital.

By this time he was married to his fourth wife, an entertainment executive he’d met when she was his student

“Years ago, I was diagnosed with a whole ‘personality disorder cluster.’… I was one self-destructive, self-involved, egocentric puppy,” he wrote on his blog. “One shrink had me pegged as ‘narcissistic personality disorder/borderline personality disorder’ with (drumroll…) ‘psychotic features.’

“Though it was a different era, the mid 1990s were not eons ago—and I was notorious on this campus as the young, untenured prof who was sleeping with a great many of his students,”

I slept with students while traveling to conferences on the college dime

Schwyzer’s willingness to call out other men—and distance himself from their apparent sexism—made him look like a hero.

Schwyzer wrote that during his early years at PCC, he’d lived off and on with a young woman. Both were in the throes of drug and alcohol addiction. On June 27, 1998, in a murder-suicide attempt, he tried to asphyxiate her by turning on the gas stove as she lay unconscious in his apartment.

Schwyzer was promptly booted from several young women’s organizations, including Healthy Is the New Skinny, a group he’d cofounded, and the Feminist Club at PCC, for which he was faculty adviser.

He’d also been sexting with a 27-year-old porn actress, sending her what is known in Twitter lingo as a “dic pic” and suggesting they do a three-way in front of his class.

“I lied and manipulated and cheated so many of you.” He’d dearly wanted, he tweeted, “to belong to your community…I loved my life with you on here. I felt like I belonged. Then I ruined it.” Six days later, on the night of August 15, Schwyzer attempted suicide. Stoned on vodka, Klonopin, and Seroquel, he ran from his mom’s house down to Carmel Point, slashed his arms with a broken bottle, and then swam out to sea.

Beginning in May 2011, she explained, she and Schwyzer had had sex for nearly seven months, sometimes in his office with the door locked. She was 20 at the time. He was 44.

he was continuing to lie about sleeping with his students, insisting that he’d stopped in 1998.

This was Schwyzer’s pattern: Tell just enough of the truth to seem forthcoming and trustworthy, and then if caught lying, be polite and profess remorse. I recognized the type—the bad boy who wants to be good, the deceitful boyfriend who always has an excuse that somehow makes you unable to kick him out of your bed.

Amber is the 22-year-old whom Schwyzer met in the psych ward at Monterey’s Community Hospital a few weeks ago, when she admitted herself after a crushing breakup.

Amber thought he was a gentleman. He opened the door for her, paid for her gas, protected her from a lecherous guy on the ward.

Schwyzer had told me on the phone they were “dating,” “fooling around.” He e-mailed me a photo of her.

“Oh, Hugo,” Amber said, smiling. “He’s an amazing, amazing man. I hate that people judge him the way they do, because they’re wrong.

Edited June 25, 2014 by vortex

[zanshin]

Don’t smoke weed, do ‘shrooms!

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[gendao]

Vortex, why should we care about that professor?

Well, it is some "unintended" downstream fallout from misandry in response to the OT.

 

He was raised by a single, feminist mother who ingrained so much male guilt into him that he had to dissociate from himself and create a bipolar, narcissistic personality. Then, the more he projected all his own

onto maleness, the more his public and personal personas diverged.

 

Eventually, this widening split nearly killed him (and one ex), not to mention the carnage of other bodies that he left in his self-destructive wake.. The more depraved his inner Jekyll became, the louder the rhetoric his outer Hyde spewed against it.

 

Self-loathing, in the long run, is simply NEVER healthy or sustainable!!

 

Yet sadly, neither he nor his hordes of complicit feminist admirers saw through his own charade, until the very end. This despite the fact that he was a serial-husband, attempted to murder an ex, slept with his students, possibly cuckolded another man and was a substance abuser...

Obviously, his is just one anecdotal, extreme case. But, I think that misandry underlying feminism can have some powerful effects generations down that may not be immediately obvious - especially when people don't want to see it.. This dude's entire life was essentially shaped by his single mother's feminism and latent "misandry."

 

So, instead of teaching and lecturing...HE should have been getting counseling!

Edited June 25, 2014 by vortex

[zanshin]

Too far down the rabbit hole

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Enishi]

He was raised by a single, feminist mother who ingrained so much male guilt into him that he had to dissociate from himself and create a bipolar, narcissistic personality. Then, the more he projected all his own

onto maleness, the more his public and personal personas diverged.

 

I think it's important to note that the "ideals" of feminism and the personalities of every day women who self-identify as feminist are often cut from a different cloth than the leading voices among the Movement who now hold positions of power in academia, government or Huffpo and other media outlets. The former can be decent in their personal dealings, while the latter are often contaminated by toxic hatred, self guilt or various power ploys. In that sense, it doesn't address the needs of ordinary men at all. For instance, how often do leading feminists actually try to address problems like men getting disproportionally abused by Divorce/Family court (their usual tactic is to wag the finger of blame at them like a busybody church lady)? That's why a parallel Men's Movement is also necessary.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Enishi

[Sloppy Zhang]

Call me a cynic, but I think no matter HOW many movements happen, I don't think anything will ever change. Not until humans PHYSICALLY, emotionally, mentally, spiritually, whatever, EVOLVE.

 

Why?

 

Because the "movement" resets to zero as soon as a woman realizes she can trade sex for power, and the movement resets to zero as soon as a man realizes he can trade power for sex.

 

As SOON as a woman realize she can sleep with a man (or lead the man to believe she will sleep with him) to get stuff, she will. I know girls who started developing in 6th grade that realized they could get boys (and even older men) to be sweet to them, give them stuff, give them a pass, etc. Why. The. Hell. Would you work for something when you can get it for free? (literally, in the opinions of these women I know, they do *nothing*, just show up and look pretty, so any "trade" that happens they don't perceive)

 

As SOON as a man realizes he can get a woman to sleep with him, chances are very high that he'll try. Yes, there are some men who are still burdened by a sense of "duty" or "responsibility" to "not sleep with women" or "sleep with only one woman." But the temptation will ALWAYS be there, and all he needs to do is trip up once.

 

It can start as early as 6th grade, when he realizes that girls start following him around for being on the basketball team. It can go all the way up until his 50's, when he's a senior executive in a company and the svelte, 19 year old college intern starts giving him the flirty eyes (because she realizes that she can get something by sleeping with him, or by letting him think she'll sleep with him). Or maybe he's a professor, and she's trying to get a pass. Or maybe he's just a punk rocker and she's in her rebellious phase. Or maybe he's a black guy and she's never been with a guy with a huge dick.

 

Each generation the movement resets to zero. Because humans haven't evolved.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Sloppy Zhang

[zanshin]

Annihilated 

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[zanshin]

absolutely nothin’

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[Sloppy Zhang]

Geez, I can't keep up.

 

Back to prostitutes.

 

Okay, feminism is good for men because feminism empowers women to use their brains and take pride in earning their own merits. So, if a woman is strong in herself, then her partner can feel happy and secure that she really likes him and not feel bitter.

 

[edit] not zanshin's thread]

Maybe the answer to this thread title is: Nothing.

 

Maybe feminism isn't FOR men. Maybe it's for WOMEN, and men just BENEFIT.

 

Or maybe... men don't benefit at ALL.

 

I think that's why this thread got "derailed."

 

Too many people stated discussing ideas that were upstream from the OP.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Sloppy Zhang

[zanshin]

It's not my thread.

[Sloppy Zhang]

It's not my thread.

 

Oh, haha, sorry.

 

Maybe the answer is no and your answers are wrong

 

Here's one woman's viewpoint:

 

Edited June 25, 2014 by Sloppy Zhang

[BaguaKicksAss]

I always thought the men's empowerment groups were pretty neat. Empowerment in men's natural strengths and getting to know themselves and their inner workings better. Men's mysteries (as women have women's mysteries). Helps men to see their own true underlying power, instead of the false power which society tries to pigeonhole them all into. Or this is how it was explained to me by some men who liked such things. (others thought they were just cheezy).

 

Sooooo feminism helps men in the sense that as women are busy finding their power, so are mean more encouraged to do so as well.

Edited June 25, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[zanshin]

On 6/25/2014 at 6:29 PM, Sloppy Zhang said:

[edit] not zanshin's thread]

Maybe the answer to this thread title is: Nothing.

 

Maybe feminism isn't FOR men. Maybe it's for WOMEN, and men just BENEFIT.

 

Or maybe... men don't benefit at ALL.

 

I think that's why this thread got "derailed."

 

Too many people stated discussing ideas that were upstream from the OP.

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[C T]

Geez, I can't keep up.

 

Back to prostitutes.

 

Okay, feminism is good for men because feminism empowers women to use their brains and take pride in earning their own merits. So, if a woman is strong in herself, then her partner can feel happy and secure that she really likes him and not feel bitter.

Pardon my question, Zanshin...

 

When a woman has become strong, empowered, broken thru the stigmas, developed her brain, what is the probability that she will move on or transcend the identification of being a feminist, or do you think that its a sort of lifestyle choice that once developed will stay indefinitely, like, do some (or many) feminists become softer or harder with age?

 

Also, do you happen to know if there are any statistics on this, for example, at what general age do females start to realise the usefulness of feministic traits, when do they peak, for how long do they remain in the plateau stage, and is there a kind of feministic menopausal period in addition to the natural one that women in general will go thru? And finally, do staunch feminists experience a sort of regressive phase in their consummate roles? I know a lot of men do as they enter the latter years of their life -- a large number become mellower, softer, gentler, more chilled, less aggressive. Of course there are also the exceptional cases, both of which are evident even here on TTB.

 

I think if the above information is available, it can be quite enlightening, in the sense that for those of us who seek to understand what feminism can do for us will be made aware which is the better age group to approach for mature, well-balanced opinions & advice, as opposed to, say, blindly asking. This is to avoid the rebellious, cynical, suspicious, often bitter, angry and less than helpful ones. Not saying all feminists are like this, merely stressing for contrast. Again, there seem to be a spectrum of responsive behavioural differences among the female posters here on TTB, but due to the smallish numbers here on the forum, its hard to draw any accurate conclusions thus far.

 

Thank you, Zanshin, and others who might know. Your viewpoint and feedback will be very much appreciated.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I think that label is places upon us more often than we might place it upon ourselves. This might skew things...

[C T]

I think that label is places upon us more often than we might place it upon ourselves. This might skew things...

Do you think this is a minority or majority view, BKA? It doesn't matter if others agree or not, i just want to get an intuitive answer, is all. Cheers!

[Nungali]

Hm, not to say too much here, but, you know... as a female you would have had a serious problem in that situation, because as a female you're not necessarily strong enough to defend your "no" as soon as it comes to being grabbed. Let's be honest about it, a female body is designed in a way to make rape an option to create children. And as a female you know you don't have the physical strength to do much about it, unless you spend a relevant amount of your time with fight training and, most effective, expose your body to doping.

With a female body, in that situation in which the overall group wouldn't support you, you might well have had the option to leave the scenery. Otherwise your options would have been limited.

Yacra .... first, I agree with everything you write above ... yet ...one of my GFs beat me every go in arm wrestle ... I am not a big fit guy ... yes I have done martial arts but the type that requires skill and cunning (I 'killed' my sword instructor by flipping my sandal up into his face and cutting arms then body )... Aikido is effective for men and women and MSSR uses eye klicks, nut and kneecaps, throat, etc first, then the heavy stuff (it does have hard core breaking bats on arms and stuff but I cant do, nor am I bult for that ) I had a big brother in a gang and those guys were horrible to me also he was a surf life saver and when I went to the beach they tried to 'get me'.

 

here is a nice picture of that beach and its dynamic in recent australian history

 

 

That guy is a wog ... lets bash him !.... I have Spanish ancestry and look a bit 'woggy' too _ also I am friends with aboriginals ... I survive obymy wits, and a 'certain energy field'.

 

A woman shouldn't have to do this .... and neither should I ... BUT .... A woman I heard talk on self defense talked about her attempted rape, she feigned interest, started rubbing his testicles, grabbed one between finger and thumb and , as she said, popped it like a grape. I didnt survive by brute force ... it doesnt work ... I know pretty tough guys that have been gang raped in jail ... that isnt pleasant

 

Guys dont like to talk about this stuff.

 

But HEY .... womens lib does ! And it wants to stamp it out. Men should be supporting it

[Marblehead]

Back to prostitutes.

No thank you. I've been down that road before.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Do you think this is a minority or majority view, BKA? It doesn't matter if others agree or not, i just want to get an intuitive answer, is all. Cheers!

 

Feminazi and feminist are unfortunately terms which get used to belittle someone (perhaps not intentionally even) who stands up for things being equal. Sometimes the person overdoes it sure, but namecalling is a good way to get someone to backdown and become more timid rather quickly. This is basically done to try to win an unstated argument, essentially.

 

Only a select few women actually call themselves these terms as they are still considered derogatory.

 

People in general who are used to being in charge or a position of power, get uncomfortable when someone stands up to them, so come out with such reactions.

 

Women have terms to try to get men to step down from their position in a debate/argument/etc. as well...

 

It is unfortunate.

[zanshin]

don’t ask me, I’m a helicopter. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[zanshin]

No thank you. I've been down that road before.

You were supposed to be driving this one.