What can feminism do for men?

[Enishi]

Men tend to (or are socialized to) jump into a new situation and establish themselves. Steady eye contact, firm handshake, loud voice, funny stories, etc. So they jump straight into the locker room talk.

 

Women tend to (or are socialized to) hang back and get a better feel for the group before jumping in (don't want to rock the boat).

 

Of course, plenty of guys (myself included) are rather introverted and take a while to warm up to the group, taking the "let's feel it out" approach. And plenty of women jump right in there. So maybe it's an introvert/extrovert kind of thing (but plenty of ways you can break that down too).

 

I'm also one of the introverted ones who tends to hang back and observe for a long time before getting my feet wet.

 

I also suspect that being extremely introverted and having mild asperger traits has resulted in socialization/conditioning having less power over me while growing up than it did over most. In the past when people talked about society/media forcing them to think or do x my response would be "huh? who? when?" O.o.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Enishi

[GrandmasterP]

When we had 'volunteer' unpaid MPs the only people who could afford to be MPs were aristocrats and wealthy landed gentry.

That wasn't good.

[gendao]

By equal rights and conditions, I define that as basically equal pay for equal work, and basic respectful treatment.

So, are you saying that young women should get paid less now to even things out?

women under 30 make 8% more money than men under 30.

According to the Office for National Statistics, women aged 22 to 29 now earn 1.7 per cent more than men in full-time work.

Speaking of, what all do you think of the various progressive, psychological effects of several generations of "feminism" upon young boys & girls today? Pros, cons or mixed reviews?

I grew up the daughter of a feminist. I have a son who lives within the princess culture.

Within modern girl power there seems to be a message that girls are better than boys. Boys are BAD. Boys are MEAN. Boys are silly, weak, stupid, clueless, rough.

A week ago he snuggled into me and proclaimed, “boys are not nice.” I asked him which boy and he told me ALL boys. All boys are not nice. They are mean.

It's a person issue, not gender/sex issue.

And beyond... Ultimately whenever there is are power inequities, then there is the potential for abuse. But, sexual dimorphism is merely one subset of that. Nature is a giant food chain composed of predators and prey. Just think of how sh*ttily humans treat most other animals and plants on this planet! And think about how they also all prey on each other, themselves..

 

So, I think it is ultimately "shadow self" projection to simply blame men for sexual dimorphism (biological inequities) and all its dynamic effects in gender relations - when it evolved naturally as a survival mechanism and is still deeply-eroticized by a majority of women themselves, no less!

From 1973 through 2008, nine surveys of women's rape fantasies have been published. They show that about 4 in 10 women admit having them (31 to 57 percent) with a median frequency of about once a month. Actual prevalence of rape fantasies is probably higher because women may not feel comfortable admitting them.

How often have you fantasized being overpowered/forced/raped by a man/woman to have oral/vaginal/anal sex against your will? 62% percent said they'd had at least one such fantasy. When asked about being "overpowered by a man," 52% said they'd had that fantasy, the situation most typically depicted in women's romance fiction.

 

Rape or near-rape fantasies are central to romance novels, one of the perennial best-selling categories in fiction. These books are often called "bodice-rippers" and have titles like Love's Sweet Savage Fury, which imply at least some degree of force. In them, a handsome cad becomes so overwhelmed by his attraction to the heroine that he loses all control and must have her, even if she refuses--which she does initially, but then eventually melts into submission, desire, and ultimately fulfillment.

 

Romance novels are often called "porn for women." Porn is all about sexual fantasies. In porn for men, the fantasy is sexual abundance--eager women who can't get enough and have no interest in a relationship. In porn for women as depicted in romance novels, the fantasy is to be desired so much that the man loses all control, though he never actually hurts the woman, and in the end, marries her.

Have any feminists here ever fantasized about being sexually-overpowered by a handsome brute? How many of you have secretly perused Fifty Shades of Grey or found guilty pleasures in other romance novels?

Edited June 26, 2014 by vortex

[Sloppy Zhang]

I agree.

Talking about men as a group and women as a group is a process of projected self-fiction.

 

The only thing that exists are individuals and each is unique and will not fall into any neatly defined grammatical definition within the conversation.

 

While it can be entertaining/ or infuriating, it's a process of projecting personal fictions based on what your subjective definitions are, rather than some all encompassing definition of reality.

 

Semantics rules this conversation along side of personal projection.

 

Projection? Perhaps.

 

Self fiction? I wouldn't say so.

 

People aren't "making this up." It is imprinted in them from real life encounters from real life people. A girlfriend who cheated on a boyfriend. A boyfriend who hit their girlfriend. A wife who divorced her husband and took the house, the car, the kids, and most of the paycheck. A husband who killed his wife.

 

Feminists/MRAs aren't projecting their self fiction onto a gender/sex. They you might say they are projecting their past experiences onto the whole gender/sex (a woman who thinks all penetrative sex is rape, a man who thinks all marriage is a scam).

 

But fiction? I can't say I agree.

 

A matriarchal society would not make all our problems go away, because women are human too.

And that is not what feminist / anti-sexist activist are trying to achieve anyway.

 

Sometimes I've wondered, well, what if we took the money out of it, and made being in power,

politically, an act of service, and they don't get to be rich because of it? Well then, how would

we get the best talent for the job in that case? What if only enlightened people could run for office?

They may not want to do it / there may not be enough of them, etc. And that could result in some

kind of fascism - separation of church and state, you know.

 

We humans have a lot of problems to solve, really hard problems. Anti-sexist activism could only

help some of them, but that's something that can be achieved the more people become aware

and change.

 

I think Marblehead called it right. It's not about money. It's about power.

 

Right now, money and power can be rather synonymous. Even if you took away the money aspect from politics, you still have people in positions of power and influence. And there will always be people willing to exploit their power and influence, and there will always be people looking to be exploited.

 

I'll make the semantics simple for you. Women don't want to be treated like shit.

Think about that one - women don't want to be treated like shit.

 

It's very simple. Once again, women don't want to be treated like shit.

 

Any thoughts on the questions raised in this post?

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/35303-what-can-feminism-do-for-men/?p=557166

[Sloppy Zhang]

Have any feminists here ever fantasized about being sexually-overpowered by a handsome brute? How many of you have secretly perused Fifty Shades of Grey or found guilty pleasures in other romance novels?

 

Stop trying to slut shame vortex!

 

People can have rape fantasies without endorsing rape.

[gendao]

People can have rape fantasies without endorsing rape.

Sure, although it doesn't exactly help if you fantasize about the same thing you condemn..

 

But the real question is does one genuinely want gender equality...if they fantasize about being overpowered due to sexual dimorphism?

 

This leads to the deeper question of if feminists are really upset at sexual dimorphism (and men generally being physically stronger)...or stronger men abusing their greater (physical) power? Or their own inadequacy to effectively fight fire with water?

[zanshin]

On 6/26/2014 at 12:19 PM, Enishi said:

 

I'm also one of the introverted ones who tends to hang back and observe for a long time before getting my feet wet.

 

I also suspect that being extremely introverted and having mild asperger traits has resulted in socialization/conditioning having less power over me while growing up than it did over most. In the past when people talked about society/media forcing them to think or do x my response would be "huh? who? when?" O.o.

 

Edited April 19, 2020 by zanshin

[BaguaKicksAss]

[BaguaKicksAss]

The more rape culture is endorsed, the more I'm going to post information about the above video .

[tyler zambori]

My God, that is a brilliant poem.

[BaguaKicksAss]

My God, that is a brilliant poem.

 

It is! We covered that sort of thing in women's mysteries, it was very empowering.

[tyler zambori]

It really puts women's humanity "in your face."

[BaguaKicksAss]

Covers bullying sufficiently too.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I think this song sums up a lot of what is wrong with society. Please listen to the end of the song.

 

Edited June 26, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[zanshin]

[silent thunder]

Stop trying to slut shame vortex!

 

People can have rape fantasies without endorsing rape.

Really good distinction.

 

My wife and I have a very active fantasy life; not just sensually either. Many aspects of our mental lives we share deep adventures and it adds so much depth to life. We strive to be open and exploratory with each other, to follow each other on these long winding fantasy adventures... and many of them are acted upon and enjoyed thoroughly.

 

However, there are some things we share that are only viable as thoughts and the understanding is that should we attempt to act on them, would put us into a world that would be incongruent with who we are.

[Nungali]

I don't normally react to PMs like that, I'm just being cranky today I think. The PM wasn't in any way putting down women btw, in case anyone is curious.

 

No? Just putting you down as a person was it ?

[Aetherous]

And since women are still often treated like shit, (yes on this forum)

 

When and where did this happen?

[Nungali]

RELATIONSHIP

 

My girlfriend lives with 14 cats

they're so slack - she still has rats.

All furry, fat and round,

I'd like to send them to the pound.

 

When you're in - thy're refined cats.

When you're out - they shit on mats!

Then cover the whole house with hair

and cough up fur balls everywhere.

 

Doing everything except what they should

(they wouldn't do it if they could!)

When in bed I get no peace

(No time for love until meows cease )

 

'It's me or them!" I bravely said

Whilst lying with 14 cats in bed,

'I cannot live like this anymore!"

... and so I was promptly shown the door.

[Marblehead]

Sure I have something more to say about Yin and Yang. They are principles, not people.

Well, that didn't work. I might try something else later.

[Marblehead]

PS to all members do NOT PM me to tell me my viewpoints suck, you can do that in thread, if you can't post in a thread, well wait until you can, *then* tell me my viewpoints suck. Thanks .

 

I think I'm starting to get cranky today, perhaps a 2nd meditation session lol.

That is GREAT!!! Caused me belly laughs.

[Marblehead]

I had a period but it was at the end of a sentence.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I had a period but it was at the end of a sentence.

 

Mine's late

 

 

 

 

 

.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I think this song sums up a lot of what is wrong with society. Please listen to the end of the song.

 

 

Thought Billy's mom was a fiend.

[tyler zambori]

When and where did this happen?