Tai Chi 4 Martial Art

[zenyogi]

It seems that the ultimate purpose of Tai Chi is martial art. Sure, on the way it might give you many other benefits but ultimately it leads to martial art.

I'm no authority but from what I've read it points to that.

Maybe I'm wrong? Anyone disagrees? Of course beyond martial art is immortality or enlightenment however you want to call it, that is most likely the highest purpose of any of these practices.

I know that there are a lot of martial art movements in Tai Chi but how is it more helping in becoming a martial artist?

I find it truly fascinating.

Ben

Edited July 23, 2014 by zenyogi

[RiverSnake]

In the words of one of my teacher's teachers. "Tai Chi is for killing people."

 

It will make you healthy and circulate energy effectively. But at the end of the day it's a martial art. Though I think much of the martial component of Tai Chi has been lost to the commercialization of the art for health purposes. Not many people know how to fight effectively with the art....they'll give you a few forms to study and call it a day.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited June 23, 2014 by OldChi

[CloudHands]

and did your teacher kill someone (using tai chi) ?

 

Ok that's an unfair question. Originally it was, but we don't live the world it was when these MA were created, so it's normal that both practice and objectives evolve.

Edited June 23, 2014 by CloudHands

[tumoessence]

Tai chi is unique as a martial art through how power is generated not in technique. In so far as Taiji Quan is based on yin yang dynamics in generating power I would suggest looking into I Liq Quan as an art that is demonstrating how this is applied martially. Practically lost except in a few cases in the taiji quan world. I liq quan is very accessible as well.

[RiverSnake]

and did your teacher kill someone (using tai chi) ?

 

Ok that's an unfair question. Originally it was, but we don't live the world it was when these MA were created, so it's normal that both practice and objectives evolve.

We live in the same world....just different times. War and violence is just as rampant as it was back then. We just don't see it directly....that often.

 

The OP is asking about the martial applications of Tai Chi....yes they are there.....and like most Internal Martial Arts the practitioners spent an extraoirdinary amount of time finding the most effective ways to kill there opponent and also on ways to avoid conflict to begin with.

 

Yes there are health benefits to Martial Arts....but if your purely looking for health benefits and not wanting to learn how to defend yourself then eating healthy, a nice walk and some stretching will do the trick....and many other practices that don't involve a martial component. To turn around the art and say the martial component should be let go.....it would not longer be Tai Chi.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited June 23, 2014 by OldChi

[CloudHands]

If it's important to know the origin to keep something of the spirit, if you don't practice it for real it fades away, at least it evolves.

What you said about war and violence is pretty sharp, the western world is still violent but less physically (in it's bigger part) so we face other kind of violence. I agree on the fact it's the same world different time.

 

This topic is pretty related to another recent topic about MA, I think if someone practice all his/her life in a dojo the day you will be confronted to real violence (not a pocket thief...) it will not help a lot.

What's a singer that doesn't sing ? a cook that doesn't cook ? a warrior that doesn't fight war ? For sure tai chi is not what it was. It doesn't mean that you can't develop many things doing so, that's an Art but on the fighting side, it's on its past.

 

It's not because you don't use a knife to fight that you can't use it to cut something else, it's still a knife (that gives you right ^^) but fighting is a only a part of the spectrum of the tool.

 

I understand what you say and that's correct but you can't define tai chi as exclusive to kung fu anymore, Yang style tai chi is not Chen tai chi which is not shaolinquan everything changes.

[RiverSnake]

 

I understand what you say and that's correct but you can't define tai chi as exclusive to kung fu anymore, Yang style tai chi is not Chen tai chi which is not shaolinquan everything changes.

I guess its a similar situation to Yoga, Chi Kung and Meditation. Yes there are great surface health benefits to all 3 practices. But the primary use of all three of them is for Self-Realization. Should the original purpose of self-realization be forgotten in favor of the surface health benefits?

 

The problem occurs when the true depth and purpose of the art is forgotten in favor of the surface benefits....thus when people are actually searching for the depth they are lost among the thousands of "Surface Teachers" who don't know anything outside of the physical art. Many people are very healthy and flexible today because of Yoga....but at the same time a large part of a spiritual/cultural heritage has been bastardized.

 

As to the argument of whether training in the dojo is as effective as being on the street....that's a dead end argument....it depends how you train.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited June 23, 2014 by OldChi

[CloudHands]

Exception made of the true depth of tai chi. Which is probably not how to kill people the best but how not to fight against yourself (whatever you do).

 

(For what I think I have understood ...)

Edited June 23, 2014 by CloudHands

[ChiDragon]

It seems that the ultimate purpose of Tai Chi is martial art. Sure, on the way it might give you many other benefits but ultimately it leads to martial art.

 

I'm no authority but from what I've read it points to that.

 

Maybe I'm wrong? Anyone disagrees? Of course beyond martial art is immortality or enlightenment however you want to call it, that is most likely the highest purpose of any of these practices.

 

I know that there are a lot of martial art movements in Tai Chi but how is it more helping in becoming a martial artist?

 

I find it truly fascinating.

 

-z

 

It is the body strength, jin(勁), developed from the diligent practice which is deadly. With the aid of each move, it is even more deadly. It is the self discipline of mental control not to hurt anyone which make it not so deadly.

Edited June 23, 2014 by ChiDragon

[CloudHands]

OK don't get me wrong, I agree with everything said before. Tai chi ultimately is design to kill. I wanted to say that you will probably never find a teacher that is a REAL fighter too.

So my opinion on what is tai chi now is very mixed... if what you want to be an ultimate fighter (is that truly interesting ?) high level tai chi practice will help you for sure but before anything you will have to fight A LOT of deadly fights...

[soaring crane]

Every Taiji class and seminar I've attended has had a martial focus.

[GrandmasterP]

TaiChi is a martial art.

Lots of weapons forms in TaiChi.

QiGong isn't a martial art.

Edited June 23, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[ChiDragon]

TaiChi is a martial art.

Lots of weapons forms in TaiChi.

QiGong isn't a martial art.

Yes, QiGong isn't a martial art but it has the same effect as Tai Chi. Indeed, it is deadly too. You have to be careful who you touch....!!!

Edited June 23, 2014 by ChiDragon

[CloudHands]

Every Taiji class and seminar I've attended has had a martial focus.

 

(IMO) The same way your body still has an appendix.

[soaring crane]

 

(IMO) The same way your body still has an appendix.

How do you know I still have my appendix? ;-)

[CloudHands]

You got me

[zenyogi]

Wow everyone, thanks so much for all the great explanations. Really helps a lot.

It's quite fascinating how things can change and water down over time and be misunderstood.

Speaking purely about martial art, what would be the easiest and most simple path of MA to get into these days? That at the same time has a side to it as an art like Tai Chi is/was one day that it could be a practise by it self?

Thanks again everyone for all the valuable contributions.

Ben

Edited July 23, 2014 by zenyogi

[idquest]

It's actually very simple and easy: just train 6 hours a day every day and you'll get there in no time.

 

Sorry, couldn't resist...

[zenyogi]

LOL

[GreytoWhite]

Wow everyone, thanks so much for all the great explanations. Really helps a lot.

 

It's quite fascinating how things can change and water down over time and be misunderstood.

 

Speaking purely about martial art, what would be the easiest and most simple path of MA to get into these days? That at the same time has a side to it as an art like Tai Chi is/was one day that it could be a practise by it self?

 

Thanks again everyone for all the valuable contributions.

 

z

 

Yiquan

[CloudHands]

I guess its a similar situation to Yoga, Chi Kung and Meditation. Yes there are great surface health benefits to all 3 practices. But the primary use of all three of them is for Self-Realization. Should the original purpose of self-realization be forgotten in favor of the surface health benefits?

 

The problem occurs when the true depth and purpose of the art is forgotten in favor of the surface benefits....thus when people are actually searching for the depth they are lost among the thousands of "Surface Teachers" who don't know anything outside of the physical art. Many people are very healthy and flexible today because of Yoga....but at the same time a large part of a spiritual/cultural heritage has been bastardized.

 

As to the argument of whether training in the dojo is as effective as being on the street....that's a dead end argument....it depends how you train.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

 

 

I replied here because I don't want that post to be fully public. I'll probably delete it in the next days.

I feel you don't get my point. No hard feelings but lot of respect

[RiverSnake]

Wow everyone, thanks so much for all the great explanations. Really helps a lot.

It's quite fascinating how things can change and water down over time and be misunderstood.

Speaking purely about martial art, what would be the easiest and most simple path of MA to get into these days? That at the same time has a side to it as an art like Tai Chi is/was one day that it could be a practise by it self?

Thanks again everyone for all the valuable contributions.

z

 

Where are you located? It would be good to find a martial instructor near you.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[zenyogi]

@Grey to white, thanks

 

@OldChi, i think I'm more interested in the ideas behind martial art practices than practicing a martial art myself right now.

 

Maybe that will change one day...

 

I'm residing in India at the moment, might be here for a while

 

Not much martial art here...

[RiverSnake]

@Grey to white, thanks

 

@OldChi, i think I'm more interested in the ideas behind martial art practices than practicing a martial art myself right now.

 

Maybe that will change one day...

 

I'm residing in India at the moment, might be here for a while

 

Not much martial art here...

You'd be surprised. I am actually studying an Indonesian martial arts right now called Silat...which is quite widespread with hundreds of styles and variations throughout Southern Asia. It's a beautiful art and quite effective. It also has a strong spiritual aspect to it called Tenaga Dalam.

 

But if your solely looking for the ideas behind martial arts you might consider some philosophical/spiritual texts.....there are many. Blessings.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited June 24, 2014 by OldChi

[Dark Templar]

It seems that the ultimate purpose of Tai Chi is martial art. Sure, on the way it might give you many other benefits but ultimately it leads to martial art.

 

I'm no authority but from what I've read it points to that.

 

Maybe I'm wrong? Anyone disagrees? Of course beyond martial art is immortality or enlightenment however you want to call it, that is most likely the highest purpose of any of these practices.

 

I know that there are a lot of martial art movements in Tai Chi but how is it more helping in becoming a martial artist?

 

I find it truly fascinating.

 

-z

 

Taiji Quan was originally created as a martial art. Yang Luchan was a great fighter, and many other masters as well. But that was too long ago. Nowadays, you'll hardly find a Taiji Quan teacher that can beat an average boxer. That's why most of the teachers don't like to demonstrate their fighting skills: they simply can't fight.