Tai Chi 4 Martial Art

[Andrei]

Yes I agree is not a fair match, but people keep saying that taichi is for weaker people (old guys and ladies) and with a smaller force you can beat a greater force. This is not true, always the bigger power wins. That you can use leverage force in a fight that is a common sense principle but in the end the the more powerful wins. Just that sometimes the power is not given by size or mass, even usually it does.

 

Anyway the taichi practice adds in the arsenal of a fighter other things beyond throwing punches, like timing, sensitivity, balance, a sense of orientation, an enlarged vision field, many useful things in fights in general. More over there is an increased oxygen capacity, more control over adrenaline surge which is giving the flight or fight response, an increased pain intensity threshold, an increased muscle fatigue due to lactic acid accumulation, all those things added may make a difference between winning and losing a match. But all those things are trained with specific methods, it's not just punching bags and weight lifting in the gym.

[ChiDragon]

Ok, thank you for the videos. I have a lot of questions regarding them (for example, on the first video the guy doesn't use Taiji in fight, so he doesn't practice Taiji for fighting skills), but I simply don't want to proceed with this debate.

BTW, I agree that Chen and Zhao Bao are more "martial" than modern Yang.

 

I don't know why you said that the guy doesn't use Taiji in fight, so he doesn't practice Taiji for fighting skills.....???

Do you practice Taiji yourself...???

 

In the first video, the first match in the advance level 18, the guy in red practiced Taiji for 9 years; and the one in black only five years. According to one of the judges, these guys are still young which lack of jin(勁) yet.

Edited June 26, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Arnaud]

@zenyogi, tai chi chuan is a boxing style, that is very clear!

 

In the past the form was taught at the end to summarize the qualities you trained before.

 

More information here: http://urbandaouk.blogspot.com/2012/07/tai-ji-quan-of-li-fang-chen-who-was.html

[Andrei]

Adam Mizner is one of the best Yang style masters I've seen :

 

[Andrei]

[ChiDragon]

IMO The last fight was lost by exhaustion rather than any special skills. The Taiji practitioner has the advantage over the Thai boxer was the Chi Kung from Taiji practice which helped him to continue to generate his energy. Unfortunately, the Thai boxer had reached the lactate threshold and collapsed.

[GreytoWhite]

The CCTV matches where one style fights another are rigged and most of the Muay Thai fights are not against top tier Muay Thai fighters. CCTV is a great propaganda tool for how great China is. Take these videos with a grain of salt.

[ChiDragon]

If that is true, then why would all the Chinese fighters, in the videos, are only teenagers fighting against the most Thai boxers in their twenties....???

[ChiDragon]

@zenyogi, tai chi chuan is a boxing style, that is very clear!

 

Yes, one can practice Tai Chi Chuan for years. However, as soon one wears a pair of boxing gloves, then he is nobody but a boxer. With the gloves on, one can only do a straight or hook punch. The only advantage is the Chi Kung breathing to maintain chi sunken to the dan tian to generate lots of jin for fajin. In addition, it is the Tai Ji kick on the chest to keep the opponent away. Another is a low side kick while the opponent is standing on one legs to get him off balance.

 

If one who understand Tai Ji, one would know that all the techniques are with the hands for grabbing and holding. Indeed, with the boxing gloves, it deprives all the special hand skills of a Tai ji practitioner. The only thing one can do is to hold, not grab, the opponent's leg to throw him off balance.

Edited June 30, 2014 by ChiDragon

[mace134]

How long one must train before they can earn that type of strength?

[ChiDragon]

How long one must train before they can earn that type of strength?

 

It depends on how often each individual does the practice. If one practice few times daily, one should feel the different in strength in few months. The more one practice, the sooner one will attain to that state. After three years, the jin(勁) developed in the muscles should be very noticeable. The jin should be built up more and more from year after year with diligent practice.

Edited June 30, 2014 by ChiDragon

[mace134]

Thanks

[Daeluin]

Can't fajin through gloves?

I wonder.

 

I dunno much about non-internal taiji.

But taiji is largely about internal.

Internal starts slow.

Like water flowing.

Can't force it to move fast

or it just splashes around.

Be slow with it, flow with it.

Over time it will speed up.

Once it becomes light,

who can see your punch?

Who can hit you?

 

Taiji offers one this path.

When achieving internal prowess, does one still want to fight?

Does an opponent still want to fight after standing before your unveiled fighting spirit?

When their mind broadcasts before every punch, what thrill in dodging?

I'm told true masters won't fight; no point. They already know the outcome.

[PLB]

All the real fighting I have done in my life, the kind that leaves one person standing and the other guy lying down, happened way before I found about tai chi chuan. So I have pushed and sparred with people but fortunately have not had to put the matter to the ultimate test.

I know the art has made me very dangerous. But I also know people who could dismantle me while flossing their teeth.

Accepting the martial core of the teaching has a lot to do with surviving. My teachers, very different in what they showed and trained, mostly said the same kind of things:

"This might keep you alive."

[Andrei]

I like this guy, he is absolutely crazy but this is taichi spirit:

 

[Andrei]

All greatest masters invented or combined some taichi in their style. Really cool this top ten masters of all times.

[ChiDragon]

Can't fajin through gloves?

I wonder.

 

There are eight effective ways to fajin.

 

See for yourself are they effected by the gloves or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rvvBLe0HPQ

[Daeluin]

 

There are eight effective ways to fajin.

 

See for yourself are they effected by the gloves or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rvvBLe0HPQ

 

Thanks for the nice video.

 

Can fajin be seen? More about feeling, not watching. One can emit bursts of qi from any part of the body. Many possibilities exist, just waiting for people to master them.

 

When one extends qi into weapons I imagine the possibilities just grow based on the limitations of the weapons.

 

We can study proven techniques to more quickly gain experience, but nothing is impossible - allow possibility to present itself by dissolving attachment to presumed limits.

[zenyogi]

This thread has proven to be very interesting. Thanks everyone for the great discussions

 

A general question: of all the fighting arts that are out there what would be the one that comes closest to actually fighting without fighting, meaning, to use as little effort to defend and strike back by for example redirecting the opponent with your energy.

 

Understand what I mean? That is what I find very interesting, fighting with little involvement, a true art.

[GreytoWhite]

A general question: of all the fighting arts that are out there what would be the one that comes closest to actually fighting without fighting, meaning, to use as little effort to defend and strike back by for example redirecting the opponent with your energy.

 

Fighting without fighting - sounds like you should practice yoga. If you're going to practice fighting, you fight. The martial arts are just to program movement into your body so that when you do fight it is more effective and your body has a number of things to fall back on when shit hits the fan.

[ChiDragon]

This thread has proven to be very interesting. Thanks everyone for the great discussions

 

A general question: of all the fighting arts that are out there what would be the one that comes closest to actually fighting without fighting, meaning, to use as little effort to defend and strike back by for example redirecting the opponent with your energy.

 

Understand what I mean? That is what I find very interesting, fighting with little involvement, a true art.

 

Show your opponent that you can do this.....

[zenyogi]

OK let me put it differently: to fight / defend with as little effort as possible.

 

Thoughts?

[ChiDragon]

This idea is from the Art of War.

[fugue]

 

That doesn't matter. Boxers can fight without their gloves. Taiji teachers (most of them) can't fight with or without gloves. And those few who can got their fighting skills from their past experience, not from Taiji Quan practice.

Just ask any Taiji teacher to demonstrate his fighting skills, and you'll hear that "it's too dangerous" or something like this. The truth is Taiji teachers don't fight, and modern Taiji Quan is not a martial art.. Taiji in essence is just the practice of efficiency and proper body mechanics. It is very much a real martial art and highly effective but only if it is understood. My teacher who is 62 and about 160lbs can through all of us around truly like is was nothing. He is just really good and very much a fighter. So I am going to have to disagree with you there

Edited July 5, 2014 by fugue

[ChiDragon]

FYI....
Every move in Tai Ji Quan is a martial art move. Well, at least, the Yang style. Most of the Tai Ji teachers do not encourage their students to learn Tai Ji for fighting. Unless, it was necessary. It is called 武德, the virtue of martial arts. Tai Ji is an art good for self defense. It was not designed to lunge an attack at anyone. As long the opponent is not in contact with the Tai Ji practitioner, then, there will be no harm done. However, as soon a contact was made, the practitioner will get the opponent off balance and fall on the ground. Sometimes, it was not just the off balance that hurts but the tremendous body strength called 勁(jin) which was developed from the practice of Tai Ji. The jin can go right through your body to damage any organ inside you. One can be dead in no time and didn't know what killed him.

Edited July 5, 2014 by ChiDragon