Hermetic and Occult - Change?

[Apech]

How about Non-Daoist Traditions ... for ... well everything except Daoism?

[dawei]

How about Non-Daoist Traditions ... for ... well everything except Daoism?

 

For now, it'll have to go to General, or the new Histories...

 

I am not clear myself on the Hermetic and Occult... maybe that should get expanded in coverage?

[SonOfTheGods]

I am not clear myself on the Hermetic and Occult... maybe that should get expanded in coverage?

Have a christian forum so it will stay out of Hermetic

[BaguaKicksAss]

How about a Left Hand Path section?

[Apech]

Have a christian forum so it will stay out of Hermetic

 

What's the matter have you lost your tambourine?

[BaguaKicksAss]

@SotG

 

 

[BaguaKicksAss]

Thankfully, I can tell you're being sarcastic.

 

I'm not being sarcastic at all actually. I'm a left hand path (as well as right hand path and no hand path) practitioner. I also know of several other members on the board who add such things to their practice, but won't ever post about it because they are worried about getting trolled or put down.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Where's the shamanism section? (though I hate that word, really I do, but you wise bums know the proper terminology).

[Zhongyongdaoist]

This now seems the cleanest way:

General Discussion

- Current items...

- Hermetic

- History/Myth/Gods

 

When the idea that became the 'Hermetic/Occult' section was proposed I never liked calling it 'Hermetic', which is only part of a larger set of interrelated traditions. At the time I suggested Western Esoteric Traditions, or even simply Western Traditions. This can be subitled Hermetism, Qabalah, Rosicrucianism, Ceremonial Magic, Occultism and more and tagged in various ways, but if you look at the content it is far broader than just Hermetism. At this time none of these topics have been developed enough to merit further subdivisions. It should be born in mind that the Abrahamic religious traditions have been an important part of these, as well as the traditional Pagan religious systems. Even Theosophy, while it certainly has drawn on Indian traditions, is rather more of a repackaging of these by and for Westerners and has been extremely influential in the development modern Western 'occultism'.

[Apech]

When the idea that became the 'Hermetic/Occult' section was proposed I never liked calling it 'Hermetic', which is only part of a larger set of interrelated traditions. At the time I suggested Western Esoteric Traditions, or even simply Western Traditions. This can be subitled Hermetism, Qabalah, Rosicrucianism, Ceremonial Magic, Occultism and more and tagged in various ways, but if you look at the content it is far broader than just Hermetism. At this time none of these topics have been developed enough to merit further subdivisions. It should be born in mind that the Abrahamic religious traditions have been an important part of these, as well as the traditional Pagan religious systems. Even Theosophy, while it certainly has drawn on Indian traditions, is rather more of a repackaging of these by and for Westerners and has been extremely influential in the development modern Western 'occultism'.

 

 

yes I'm kind of suggesting it gets changed to Western Traditions ... as long as we accept the Levant and Persia for instance as 'West'.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

yes I'm kind of suggesting it gets changed to Western Traditions ... as long as we accept the Levant and Persia for instance as 'West'.

 

Yes, one might almost say, anything that contributed to the Cultural content of the Roman Empire during the Hellenistic Age or was later derived from these influences would constitute 'Western' in the sense I am aiming at. It should also include the 'shamanic' background to all of these things. This would probably be all inclusive enough.

[BaguaKicksAss]

When the idea that became the 'Hermetic/Occult' section was proposed I never liked calling it 'Hermetic', which is only part of a larger set of interrelated traditions. At the time I suggested Western Esoteric Traditions, or even simply Western Traditions. This can be subitled Hermetism, Qabalah, Rosicrucianism, Ceremonial Magic, Occultism and more and tagged in various ways, but if you look at the content it is far broader than just Hermetism. At this time none of these topics have been developed enough to merit further subdivisions. It should be born in mind that the Abrahamic religious traditions have been an important part of these, as well as the traditional Pagan religious systems. Even Theosophy, while it certainly has drawn on Indian traditions, is rather more of a repackaging of these by and for Westerners and has been extremely influential in the development modern Western 'occultism'.

 

There is a local ceremonial magickian who shows up for our meetups each week, who tells us that there are no magical paths/traditions/practices which aren't hermetic, or at least based upon and founded on hermetic principals......

 

Why is there no facepalm smiley?

[dawei]

When the idea that became the 'Hermetic/Occult' section was proposed I never liked calling it 'Hermetic', which is only part of a larger set of interrelated traditions. At the time I suggested Western Esoteric Traditions, or even simply Western Traditions. This can be subitled Hermetism, Qabalah, Rosicrucianism, Ceremonial Magic, Occultism and more and tagged in various ways, but if you look at the content it is far broader than just Hermetism. At this time none of these topics have been developed enough to merit further subdivisions. It should be born in mind that the Abrahamic religious traditions have been an important part of these, as well as the traditional Pagan religious systems. Even Theosophy, while it certainly has drawn on Indian traditions, is rather more of a repackaging of these by and for Westerners and has been extremely influential in the development modern Western 'occultism'.

 

 

Yes, one might almost say, anything that contributed to the Cultural content of the Roman Empire during the Hellenistic Age or was later derived from these influences would constitute 'Western' in the sense I am aiming at. It should also include the 'shamanic' background to all of these things. This would probably be all inclusive enough.

 

Would you be willing to come up with a few name suggestions (maybe it is already here), but a subtitled description that the section includes?

 

You can get with another person or two in PM (if you want) to flesh it out.

[GrandmasterP]

Have a christian forum so it will stay out of Hermetic

Noooooo!

 

Christian section should remain where it belongs, with the Occult.

Hermetic section could be sealed for all the interest I have in it, but some enjoy it.

I visit another site that has a 'secret societies' section wherein everybody talks knowledgeably about what secret societies get up to.

I suggested that its should be renamed the " Not very secret societies" section.

Edited June 25, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Blackfinger]

 

I visit another site that has a 'secret societies' section wherein everybody talks knowledgeably about what secret societies get up to.

I suggested that its should be renamed the " Not very secret societies" section.

 

Riffing on that theme, Mo Pai is a closed school and look how much talk there is about that on here.....

'Secret' stuff tends to generate a lot of activity but 90% of it has nothing to do with the actual bones of the subject.

 

As for the question, I think Non-Daoist Traditions is too broad...and though some may want to ignore it, there are alot of parallels between hermetic/occult practice, and the more esoteric practices of Taoism (Neidan/Waidan).

Edited June 26, 2014 by Blackfinger

[dawei]

Latest structure idea... this is going back to a Non-Taoist Discussion section with all branches under:

 

 

Taoist Discussion (covers Chinese philosophies, text, etc)

 

 

Non-Taoist Discussions

 

Postable entry section can cover: Jainism, Sikhism, Carvaka and Sufism, Shinto, Parsism and Zoroastrianism, Shamanism, etc.

 

 

- Buddha Darsanas & Tantra (covers Tibetan, Theravada and Mahayana, and Zen)

 

- Hindu Darsanas & Tantra (that will cover the 6 schools of hindu thought - Vedanta, Mimamsa, Nyaya, Samkhya, Vaisheshika,Yoga as well as the Tantrik Schools - Kashmir Shaivism, etc).

 

 

- Hermetic and Occult: mysticism, esoteric, magic, and religion, etc

 

- Western Traditions: Covers western philosophy, logic and reason, etc

 

---

 

The challenge is that the last two overlap and whether it should be one big group or simply keep two but name as ?

[BaguaKicksAss]

Oh thank the many Gods that you didn't put Christianity in with hermetic!

 

Nothing wrong with christianity per se, but it is a religion....

[dawei]

Oh thank the many Gods that you didn't put Christianity in with hermetic!

 

Nothing wrong with christianity per se, but it is a religion....

 

oh... but I thought it was there by default:

 

- Hermetic and Occult: mysticism, esoteric, magic, and religion...

[BaguaKicksAss]

How is hermetic about religion? Major religions tend to have done their best to stamp out such practices....

 

To me personally that would be even more ludicrous as putting it under Daoism. Of course there is christian mysticism and muslim magic, but those are entirely different topics and categories than religion.

[dawei]

I'm waiting for some ideas on naming it to capture the board category of mysticism, esoteric, magic, and religion.

 

I think if we merge the last two together, it is too much a mixed bag.

[Blackfinger]

Agree with BKA above

 

Magic/hermetic/WMT does not have to be linked with religion. They are not mutually exclusive by any means, but definitely not inherent bedfellows.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Blackfinger

[Zhongyongdaoist]

- Hermetic and Occult: mysticism, esoteric, magic, and religion, etc

 

- Western Traditions: Covers western philosophy, logic and reason, etc

 

---

 

The challenge is that the last two overlap and whether it should be one big group or simply keep two but name as ?

 

One reason why I dislike this is because, Western Philosophy in the form of Plato and Aristotle and their descendants run through the whole of all of Western 'mysticism, esoteric, magic, and religion, etc'. For example, it is very easy to find ideas that are common to Middle Platonism in the Hermetica, how much does one find of 'The Book of the Dead'? The same holds for 'Gnostic' Christianity and is common to other Hellenistic 'neo' traditions, so much so that the standard scholarly take on these is that they are culturally adapted popular manifestations of Platonism.

 

Also logic and reason are a fundamental part of these Western Traditions, it is only events taking place in period from 1750 to 1850 which associate reason and logic almost exclusively with materialism, whereas, especially Plato, but also Aristotle, were at great pains to use reason and logic to banish the early Greek atomist schools and were so successful that they are vilified by modern materialists.

 

I'm waiting for some ideas on naming it to capture the board category of mysticism, esoteric, magic, and religion.

 

I think if we merge the last two together, it is too much a mixed bag. (Emphasis mine, ZYD)

 

It is already defacto a mixed bag, and one with so many posts on such a wide set of topics that attempting to separate them leads to too many small bags. So on a practical level a title that represents this mixed bag status may be warrented. That is why I favor 'Western Traditions', with the option of making it 'Western Esoteric Traditions', as at least some type of filter. This would allow a challenge to say, a Christian fundamentalist rant, but allow Gnosticism, and the same goes for Sufism within Islam.

 

It should be remembered that there are only a handful of members who post here regularly and a few more handfuls of people who follow it. This leads to a form of self limitation, that has kept the forum more or less on track, though it long ago went outside the limits implied by 'Hermetic/Occult'.

 

Finally, there are people who come here as guests and do read these posts, which means that a good purpose overall is being served by the forum.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I most definitely like the idea of having "esoteric" in the name, as that most definitely does narrow the focus to what (imo) it has intended to be and has been (mostly) thus far...

[GreytoWhite]

...won't ever post about it because they are worried about getting trolled or put down.

 

I don't ever post about it simply because of the danger. Bad enough that these energetic practices are freely available for someone to read and mispractice - worse to empower someone untrained and perhaps unscrupulous who could cause much harm to themselves and those around them.

[dawei]

So are you all saying ?

 

- Western Esoteric Traditions {formerly Hermetic and Occult}: mysticism, esoteric, magic, and religion, etc

 

- Other Traditions: Covers western philosophy, logic and reason, etc