Where are the real teachers?

[Upfromtheashes]

Looking around at all these "teachers" it seems like everyone wants money in some form or another -

It seems like a red flag to me

Are there genuine individuals out there who teach because of the flow of energy they receive in return, who teach while also being open to what the student can teach them, Who teach just because they are in harmony without looking for anything in return?

Can anything valuable be acually obtained when there is a monetary price to it no matter what it is?

[Taomeow]

Looking around at all these "teachers" it seems like everyone wants money in some form or another -

It seems like a red flag to me

Are there genuine individuals out there who teach because of the flow of energy they receive in return, who teach while also being open to what the student can teach them, Who teach just because they are in harmony without looking for anything in return?

Can anything valuable be acually obtained when there is a monetary price to it no matter what it is?

 

Karmically speaking, you are not supposed to be getting something for nothing. If you do, you'll wind up owing your teacher a debt you will have to repay anyway -- it's your debt for all eternity till you pay it off. In many cases, the easiest way to pay a debt is with money, rather than with suffering and adversities of destiny or devotional (or slovenly) service (which is how a debt to a teacher was traditionally repaid by a student who is poor.) In China, gifts to masters in excess of the asking price are common, and have always been -- you always try to give a bit more than you're getting, just to be on the safe side in the overall karmic checks and balances, if for no other reason. Of course there's other reasons to give freely, but they don't invalidate the give-and-take that involves money. Teachers have to eat. Teachers have to pay mortgages. Teachers have to educate their kids. Why are they supposed to get nothing for what they give you while you're happy to pay Joe who fixes your car or even George who wages your war for you so that you can put gas in same?

 

My teacher, who charges a very reasonable fee, is very careful to avoid situations where he might owe a student any money. If you miss a class, you are invited to come to any other class free of charge; if you can't, he'll extend your term free of charge; if you still don't come, he'll give you a gift -- a free CD or a T-shirt or something. A good lesson in and of itself I think -- students should likewise try to be careful in their taking, and make sure they don't owe a teacher what they haven't somehow repaid, and like I said, in many cases, paying with money is the easiest way to do it.

 

Then again there's greedy teachers whose fees are prohibitively high. By all means, stay away from these, unless you know for a fact they are taking what is owed them, and are karmically entitled. I knew one teacher like that. He gave me treasures -- for an impossibly high price. He had suffered so much though that no money will ever fix that... but whatever he takes, he takes with an unwavering hand, feeling that the universe owes him. And he's probably right.

[sunshine]

Can anything valuable be acually obtained when there is a monetary price to it no matter what it is?

 

In my humble opinion: The amount of money one charges does not say anything about their quality or achievement of whatever. It might tell you something about what the person in mind believes about themselves... ( we know from some healthpractitioners that really do not that much believe in themselves that they charge pretty low prices and barely manage to sustain themselves. What good are they for mankind in general if they charge single persons less and sooner or later have to give up because they fail to sustain a living or get ill because they work too much in order to still sustain a living from the little they charge etc. etc. etc.).

 

But if somebody has quality and truly something to offer it is up to them to charge whatever they like (aside from the possibility that heaven might want it differently actually). You won't expect Phil Collins teach you playing the drums for a price a street drummer would charge you, would you? If you want high quality food you will pay high amounts of money and you know why! If you want supereducation you tend to have to pay considerbale amounts to get it.

 

Often the trouble is not that one is paying one person a lot, but on the search paying too much for too many who do not really "deserve" it.

 

In my humble opinion

 

 

Harry

[Flynn]

Ah money, it causes more problems than it is worth in my opinion. It seems like we would accomplish a lot more in life if we just paid for services with services of our own.

[Cameron]

Eckhart Tolle said something about this that is by far the best I have ever heard on the subject.

 

Payment belongs to the world of form. It's how the world of form operates.

 

You can make a good argument on why you should pay for "teaching". You can make an equally good argument why you should not.

 

Incedently, I was given a ticket to see Eckhart in a few months. I would gladly pay for the ticket if the person who gave it to me asked but he didn't.

 

It might arise that I want to pay anyway.

 

The way I look at it now it is more or less an honor for me to give my teachers some money. It helps them to do what they do. I wish I could give more.

 

Oh something else so funny Eckhart said..

 

When he didn't charge for his talks(just a donation..however much people wanted) he had like 15 students show up to see him..

 

After he started to charge...well...

 

Edited August 17, 2007 by Cameron

[Leidee]

When a person can buy a carton of milk with chi, then there will be no need to charge.

 

I am waiting for my Chi-card right now.

 

L

[Zasafras]

Well, my opinion which is biased towards my personal experiences, as are the opinions of others is that there are no real teachers outside of yourself, only guides.

 

It is up to you to follow your instinct on what you think is genuine, for you, which will lead you to people who are on a similar path that can guide you along the way. You are going to make mistakes, you are going to make the wrong decisions based on your instinct, but I feel this is the only real way to learn. Everyone is still young based on the grand scheme of things, so it is okay to make the wrong decisions as long as your learn what is really genuine for you so that in the future you will make the right decisions. The older you get, the wiser your instinct will be, so do not worry about choosing a teacher thinking that it might not be right for you, if you follow what is genuine, then at that moment in your lifetime no matter how wrong the decision could be, it is actually at that present time the correct one if it is the weight that tips the scales in the right directions for you.

 

When it comes to paying money for lessons, I tend to have a different opinion that what has so far been represented. I am a firm believe in freedom of information for everyone. Unfortunately something that simple is almost impossible because the present powers at be would rather have freedom of disinformation for all since it keeps them in power, and others powerless. Teachers do have to eat, and to eat requires that they do need to have a monetary income come from somewhere, and sure it is reasonable to come from the people who are benefiting from their teachings. So I guess as far as paying for teachings, the fairest approach would be to have a base price that is extremely reasonable that almost anyone could afford it, even the poor, but reasonable enough that if someone truly benefited from their teachings they would donate or give more in some way or another in order to help the person that has helped them an equal amount. I.e. give or do for the teacher something that would be easy to do but something that the teacher could not easily do or get for themselves; give the teacher in some other form or another something that would help the teacher much as the teachings helped the pupal. It should be a mutual exchange.

[mwight]

I am learning several styles, I plan on disclosing all the secrets I can from the publicly taught courses. The private instruction I have received will have to stay that way. But it should be of great use to others. But I hope in the next few months I can create a free lesson plan. I think I have a pleasant voice, perhaps I will make my own audiobook, and put it up for download on my website. Maybe Loop a Video of a waterfall to it for youtube or something.

 

 

Check out the book, Energy Work by Robert Bruce. He has a lot of no BS functional information, and the system he teaches is fun to do. Some pretty basic things most people just don't get, but are essential. $10.00

 

Robert Peng has an excellent DVD which has pretty much everything from his CD's included for $40.00

www.robertpeng.com

 

I would say his course is as close to the real deal as you can get, for $40 for the DVD it is very reasonable. Also robert bruces book is worth reading. These are no BS, to the point courses.

 

 

 

I do plan training with Dr. Verdesi eventually, but that is an insane amount of money to spend, especially if you only work part time.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looking around at all these "teachers" it seems like everyone wants money in some form or another -

It seems like a red flag to me

Are there genuine individuals out there who teach because of the flow of energy they receive in return, who teach while also being open to what the student can teach them, Who teach just because they are in harmony without looking for anything in return?

Can anything valuable be acually obtained when there is a monetary price to it no matter what it is?

Edited August 17, 2007 by mwight

[Trunk]

When it comes to paying money for lessons, ...

I've studied with several otherwise unrelated southern california internal-arts teachers who consistently put my jaw on the floor and eyebrows on the ceiling, and each charged about $100 / month. At least one of those overtly stated that if that was beyond someone's means, that something could be worked out.

 

My experience is that there are often local, profoundly advanced, teachers - that aren't particularly famous and are teaching to small groups.

[mwight]

I've studied with several otherwise unrelated southern california internal-arts teachers who consistently put my jaw on the floor and eyebrows on the ceiling, and each charged about $100 / month. At least one of those overtly stated that if that was beyond someone's means, that something could be worked out.

 

My experience is that there are often local, profoundly advanced, teachers - that aren't particularly famous and are teaching to small groups.

 

 

As an internal energy test I have been perfecting my isometric neigong training. I am now up to breaking (solid) cinder blocks with my palm slaps. I want to work up to at least 5-7, I figure at that point I should be able to collapse a lung point blank if need be.

 

I also one a bet with a friend I couldn't lift his car out of a ditch.

 

These are all very yang exercises however, the yin aspect of the practice is what really hooked me

Edited August 17, 2007 by mwight

[mbanu]

Most likely they're at work.

 

Lao-tzu was a government librarian. Chuang-tzu worked in the lacquer industry. Some Taoists were doctors. Some were farmers. Some were in the military.

Edited August 17, 2007 by mbanu

[hagar]

I remember asking my teacher's wife about masters she knew in Beijing that I could visit when I was going there.

 

The answer I got is reflecting the discussion in this thread. She said that I sould at least pay 100 dollars in cash to him every time, eventhough he refuses to accept. If I don't do this he will not accept to meet me the next time.

 

My teacher charges a fair amount of money (from my standards), but is reasonable compared to other teachers out there. I think that what I get in value far exceeds what I could pay moneywise.

 

BUT the true test of a master/teacher in relation to money is not how much he charges, but why.

I have figured out why my master charges as he does by putting myself in his shoes.

The only way I could stay "free" of people "owing" me if I treated them, or if I taught them would be to charge them a reasonable but substantial fee. If not, I would probably have to deal with being "karmically" bound to them by their sticky gratitude. And the problem would not be all mine. As a patient or student, you free yourself from debt both karmically and otherwise by paying for what you get, and most importantly, you cherish what you get much more if it hurts abit to get it. In addition, a good teacher supports a students independence, and autonomy. By making a student pay, you make them less dependent on the teacher, as you "own" what you are taught, instead of being at the mercy of the teacher's "grace". It supports the final goal of dropping the "ladder" (teacher) when you have reached the next level.

 

It's like winning the lottery and getting a million dollars or earning a million dollars through hard work. Although the amount is the same, which sum will be dealt with most wisely? The money that come easy or hard?

 

On a different note, whe have gotten a healing challigraphy from my teacher to use on my girlfriend when she was expecting for free. If it wasn't for free it wouldnt work.

 

So there's value and there's price. Different things

 

h

[rain]

I had a teacher once who took no fee, he just expected hard work. I put in 5-9 hrs work a day and in exchange helped him with work, he received help from me in the fields I know better than him.

 

I have also encountered courses where the price-system has been like "little russian dolls"..you seem to enroll into something and you end up paying money for a lot more details than you had prepared for.

 

I always feel it is good to be sure I give back enough when I learn. Sometimes the money system is very clean too. Then there is no mixup ,it is very clear what is taught, and what is learned. Ordinary life we project on each other. Teachers and therapists now this (or should know).

 

My teacher gave me music (then he was a friend) in return I cleaned his dojang (as a friend). I told him if he wants me wash it on regular basis he should be prepared to pay me 70$ pr hour.

 

he hasnt offered me the job,

hahahaha

[sunshine]

There is one teacher that might be what you are looking for:

 

http://www.aypsite.com/

 

I do not know what the practice actually leads to in the end but if I had not found what I have in the last year I would continue his practices. His replies to me have always been those of a kind teacher and his material is about free.

 

 

Harry

[sean]

Where are the real students?

[fatherpaul]

Looking around at all these "teachers" it seems like everyone wants money in some form or another -

It seems like a red flag to me

Are there genuine individuals out there who teach because of the flow of energy they receive in return, who teach while also being open to what the student can teach them, Who teach just because they are in harmony without looking for anything in return?

Can anything valuable be acually obtained when there is a monetary price to it no matter what it is?

 

 

sir,

with all due respect

you are your own best teacher and student

its free

and total freedom is what it is.

 

peace and happy pancakes,

paul

[Ian]

I remember someone saying something along the lines that it's not really proper to charge for the priceless gift of healing, etc.

 

But it's perfectly acceptable to charge for your time, provided you don't take the piss.

 

And yeah, maybe all information should be free. Maybe. But it always takes the teacher's time, and room hire, and transport costs, to pass on this priceless info.

 

Basically, if you're not willing to pay for something you don't want it enough.

 

IMHO, obviously.

[fatherpaul]

I remember someone saying something along the lines that it's not really proper to charge for the priceless gift of healing, etc.

 

But it's perfectly acceptable to charge for your time, provided you don't take the piss.

 

And yeah, maybe all information should be free. Maybe. But it always takes the teacher's time, and room hire, and transport costs, to pass on this priceless info.

 

Basically, if you're not willing to pay for something you don't want it enough.

 

IMHO, obviously.

 

 

i hearby knight thee, Ian the steadfast!

 

you are priceless

 

peace and happy crumpets,

paul

 

 

no slur intended, i do respect you man.

[Pero]

FatherPaul, do you know how to sh1t in a toilet?

[rain]

I remember someone saying something along the lines that it's not really proper to charge for the priceless gift of healing, etc.

 

But it's perfectly acceptable to charge for your time, provided you don't take the piss.

 

And yeah, maybe all information should be free. Maybe. But it always takes the teacher's time, and room hire, and transport costs, to pass on this priceless info.

 

Basically, if you're not willing to pay for something you don't want it enough.

 

IMHO, obviously.

 

 

The reason

 

 

 

The mullah Nasrudin went to see a rich man to earn some money from him. He asked the man to give him some money.

 

The man said why you need money?

 

Mullah said I want to buy an elephant so that is why I need money!

 

The man said if you don't have enough money how you are going to look after the elephant?

 

Mullah said I came here to get money not advice!

[Cameron]

Nice. I need to read more about him. One I recently read about him something like...Mullah was relaxing on the side of a river when someone from the other side yelled "How do I get to the other side of the river?" Mullah responded " You are on the other side".

 

[fatherpaul]

FatherPaul, do you know how to sh1t in a toilet?

if i were to give a shit i would

but i dont take shit nor give it

 

what of you pero?

[Pero]

LOL! I'm not sure how/if this answers my question, since it was a yes or no thing, but you certainly made my night!

 

As for me, I shit when I have to, sometimes give a shit too much, sometimes don't give a shit too much. Sometimes give shit, sometimes take it.

 

For some (I dare not say me yet), all shit is good.

[fatherpaul]

LOL! I'm not sure how/if this answers my question, since it was a yes or no thing, but you certainly made my night!

 

As for me, I shit when I have to, sometimes give a shit too much, sometimes don't give a shit too much. Sometimes give shit, sometimes take it.

 

For some (I dare not say me yet), all shit is good.

 

 

: )