Sitting meditation: for how long do you sit?

[BaguaKicksAss]

a big key for going longer - the zheng qi. partly from good application of qigong exercises, partly from good posture - another key, line the dantiens up vertically, include k1 if you are standing in the alignment. correct posture help reinforce the zheng qi that "righteously sits you upright"

 

so you dont have to sit there flogging yourself to stay in a meditative position, you mind fundamental things like this and the energy will manifest due to correct application of the fundamentals.

 

when the energy is abundant, posture is easy, when one can turn the light around effectively it helps time disappear.

 

You really mean do it in horse stance don't you?

[joeblast]

that helps too horse stance'd tensor fascia latae is one of the big reasons I cant fit into a size 30 waist, otherwise, no problemo

[Vitalii]

Vitalii....

What is your understanding or definition of "sitting meditation (Dazuo/jinzuo)"....?

Can you give a simple description....?

 

 

In "Shiwulun" Wang Chongyang said about inner state during sitting meditation:

 

但有絲毫動靜思念，即不名靜坐。能如此者，雖身處於塵世，名已列於仙位

 

"As long as there is the slightest thought of motion and stillness, this is not what I call sitting in a motionless calm and silence (Jinzou). Those who can sitting in a motionless calm and silence, although their physical bodies resides in the world of dust / material world /, but their names are already in the ranks of the Immortals."

[Vitalii]

Are all the sittings done in 'emptiness' or are there energetic components to it?

Also if we want to break this out a little more.

 

Practitioners use methods which contain special Qi work (Ming) and spirit work (Xing). They work with True (Zhen) Qi of Heaven and Earth, Post Heaven and Pre Heaven Qi.

Correct work with original energy (Qi) helps one to find inner harmony, grow spiritually and understand themselves.

Also methods of Inner Alchemy that are taught on the retreat are primarily focused on cleansing and improving of heart nature, cleansing of heart and mind from obscurations, and comprehension of original nature.

Thus, it brings a double improvement – of heart nature (Xing) and vitality (Ming).

 

Do People have any special practices just before and just after long term meditation?

 

During retreat we are reading, studying and discussing of the ancient Daoist texts, it helps practitioners to keep correct inner state and inner intention during the day and especially before practice.

After long term meditation, soft self-massage should be done.

[KenBrace]

 

After long term meditation, soft self-massage should be done.

 

Yep. It's also good to slowly bring yourself back to reality. Wiggle your toes and fingers, then start moving your arms, etc. Once you've moved your whole body around it's good to stretch and massage your muscles to help "wake" them back up and get rid of the stiffness.

[Jox]

Something like that ...

 

 

Jox,

Edited July 5, 2014 by Jox

[KenBrace]

Something like that ...

 

 

Jox,

Of course.

[Ya Mu]

There are different meditative forms. Simple zazen differs greatly from neigong.

I will point out the study the doctors did in Japan. They found both types of practitioners to produce calmness. But in addition, the qigong guys stimulated the creative centers of the brain.

 

I guess it depends on what a person is practicing, but in our system we want to get to be 24/7. In other words, instantly have and continue the dampened down brain wave state and awareness that allows energetic manipulation at all times.

Practically speaking, continuous sessions of 6-8 hours or more are not unheard of, but generally I think 2-3 hours is more the norm. I now practice a min of 5 hrs a day concentrated then 24/7 and for a long time I practiced far more than that. I know that in our method there is a point "in time" where we "saturate" and this is usually about 40 minutes initially. Of course everything after that 40 min is gravy.

[doc benway]

I think it would be helpful for us to be conscious of when we are being dogmatic and opinionated regarding our meditative practices. There are many different approaches to meditation and reducing it to simply a matter of enough time, not enough time is a superficial and artificial mental construct. Hours of unskillful practice are no more beneficial than a moment of truly skillful practice. Integrating enlightened qualities in our lives is much more beneficial than hours seated alone on a cushion. Expecting to succeed in our cultivation simply based on how much time we spend on the cushion is a formula for failure, IMO. Equally, if not more important, is to look deeply and honestly at ourselves, our lives, our relationships, our behavior, and integrating the openness and discoveries made in our practice into our daily lives.

 

Just my own opinionated and dogmatic views...

 

PS - I sit for about 90 minutes each weekday morning and 30-60 minutes each evening depending on work and family obligations. On weekends, I usually sit for 120 minutes in the morning and 60 minutes each in the afternoon and evening... again, time permitting. I usually only make time for standing, taijiquan, baguazhang, and qigong on the weekends anymore. I've given up the martial training in favor of emphasizing love, compassion, and healing aspects of practice over the past year. On my way outside on this beautiful summer day to do some zhan zhuang, taijiquan, and baguzhang right now. Seeya!

[Ya Mu]

As above by Steve, "...Hours of unskillful practice are no more beneficial than a moment of truly skillful practice..., "

This needs to be a sticky. Anyone thinking it is a matter of simply making yourself sit for long periods of time has totally missed the boat. Like in all things, efficiency gained by skillful study leads to skillful practice.

[KenBrace]

As above by Steve, "...Hours of unskillful practice are no more beneficial than a moment of truly skillful practice..., "

This needs to be a sticky. Anyone thinking it is a matter of simply making yourself sit for long periods of time has totally missed the boat. Like in all things, efficiency gained by skillful study leads to skillful practice.

Unless you sit for long periods you won't really be able to master deeper levels of meditation. That is my experience anyway.

[Ya Mu]

Forcing oneself to sit for long periods does not much of anything. It is the skillfull practice gained by study and efficiency of practice. For instance, a person who has actually studied authentic neigong and practiced for a long period of time can reach a level inside of a very few minutes that is far beyond that reached by several hours of practice by a person who has not actually studied anything who thinks they can just sit down and it all will happen.

Think in terms of efficiency. If one can INSTANTLY dampen down brain waves, there is a very much more efficiency to the practice. If one has certain vibrations attuned to, there is a much higher efficiency. For self practice without a teacher both of these conditions will take much longer period of time, for the average person, before the efficiency rises to the same point. My experience is that this period of time can be around 10 years for the average person. But we have naturals who can do it in much shorter period of time so it all boils don to the "who you are" in getting to that point of efficiency.

[KenBrace]

Forcing oneself to sit for long periods does not much of anything. It is the skillfull practice gained by study and efficiency of practice. For instance, a person who has actually studied authentic neigong and practiced for a long period of time can reach a level inside of a very few minutes that is far beyond that reached by several hours of practice by a person who has not actually studied anything who thinks they can just sit down and it all will happen.

Think in terms of efficiency. If one can INSTANTLY dampen down brain waves, there is a very much more efficiency to the practice. If one has certain vibrations attuned to, there is a much higher efficiency. For self practice without a teacher both of these conditions will take much longer period of time, for the average person, before the efficiency rises to the same point. My experience is that this period of time can be around 10 years for the average person. But we have naturals who can do it in much shorter period of time so it all boils don to the "who you are" in getting to that point of efficiency.

 

Rather than "forcing" it's more like "not getting interrupted".

[KenBrace]

When I sit for an hour or two I feel interrupted when I stop. I wasn't allowed to go as deep as I could have gone. I didn't want to stop. Like aiming for a deep ocean dive and getting snatched out before you've gone as deep as you aimed for. I don't feel worn out after long sessions or that I forced myself to continue. Actually a good analogy is comparing it to a plate of food. When hungry and eating a plate the last thing you want to do is suddenly stop and not finish satisfying your hunger. You don't "force" yourself to continue eating. Rather you want to continue without having someone or something interrupt you. When I train it is very much like this.

[Ya Mu]

And with actual training, the efficiency factor I mention above makes all the difference in reaching that point where one feels that anything else would be an interruption. With real training, even the interruption is never an interruption. Think in terms of the plate of food example. If the food is concentrated in nutrients and the digestive system is optimized and the chewing is at its peak efficiency then the food intake will be optimized and the hunger can be satisfied more satisfactorily and much quicker as well as much more efficiently.

The states you are referring to can be reached much much much more quickly and efficiently, eliminating the total need for longer sitting OR one can sit longer if they wish as the state is optimized.

[doc benway]

Unless you sit for long periods you won't really be able to master deeper levels of meditation. That is my experience anyway.

 

And no matter how long you sit for, if you are not practicing properly you are simply wasting your time.

It is much more important to develop certainty than endurance, IME.

[voidisyinyang]

Sit in full lotus already and get it over with. A qigong master said 20 mins of full lotus meditation = 4 hours of other types of meditation. Time is very subjective when you experience precognition, etc. A good goal would be 4 hours of full lotus meditation each night/early morning - with no bathroom break. haha. You need less sleep if you can go deep enough into meditation. Falling asleep in full lotus on a toilet in a public bathroom might get you arrested if you snore too loudly and the cops think you're homeless.

 

Something like that ...

 

 

Jox,

[KenBrace]

 

And no matter how long you sit for, if you are not practicing properly you are simply wasting your time.

It is much more important to develop certainty than endurance, IME.

In order for meditation to be efficiant you need to be in an extremely deep state. In order to get in an extremly deep state you need lots of time to sink deep enough. After years and years of this type lf meditation you eventually become much better at it and only need a short amount of time to enter it.

[joeblast]

Unless you sit for long periods you won't really be able to master deeper levels of meditation. That is my experience anyway.

*bites tongue on what you've been told versus what you havent experienced*

[宁]

Why not "work" to let other people's "winds" run right through you?

 

I'm too... dense like that not aspiring to become a saint either

[宁]

In order for meditation to be efficiant you need to be in an extremely deep state. In order to get in an extremly deep state you need lots of time to sink deep enough. After years and years of this type lf meditation you eventually become much better at it and only need a short amount of time to enter it.

True!

[Vitalii]

Integrating enlightened qualities in our lives is much more beneficial than hours seated alone on a cushion. Expecting to succeed in our cultivation simply based on how much time we spend on the cushion is a formula for failure, IMO. Equally, if not more important, is to look deeply and honestly at ourselves, our lives, our relationships, our behavior, and integrating the openness and discoveries made in our practice into our daily lives.

 

yes, it is very important.

 

In Zhen Dao Pai we pay a great attention to the cultivation of Inner heart nature.

Nowadays, many people want to know different exercises, such as body work and Qi work, but if they do not cultivate inner heart nature, it can lead to a growth of ego but not to spiritual development. Therefore, although Zhen Dao Pai use the principle of dual cultivation of Xing and Ming, Xing cultivations inhere are more important than Ming.

At first, a person needs to clear heart and cultivate virtue. In Zhen Dao, for this purpose students follow the instructions, which are described in 太上老君说百病 "Taishan Lao Jun Talks About The One Hundred Diseases" and 老君崇百药 "Taishan Lao Jun Glorifies The One Hundred Medicines".

Also, all methods of Qi work contain Xing aspect that allows to transform a usual Qi training into spirit development. This is very important, because some people consider if they cultivate Qi, then spirit development will happen automatically. It is a big mistake.

[doc benway]

In order for meditation to be efficiant you need to be in an extremely deep state. In order to get in an extremly deep state you need lots of time to sink deep enough. After years and years of this type lf meditation you eventually become much better at it and only need a short amount of time to enter it.

 

What does deep mean?

[KenBrace]

*bites tongue on what you've been told versus what you havent experienced*

I haven't been able to make much progress unless I meditate consistently for long periods.

[KenBrace]

 

What does deep mean?

The lower your brain activity goes while you remain conscious, the deeper in meditation you are. The difference between sleep and meditation is that during sleep you are unconscious, while in meditation you are completely cognitive and aware.