A thread for everyone interested in retention/celibacy

[grabmywrist4]

This is a quote from an 800 page advanced meditation book called the visuddhimagga available for free online. I thought it might help some people serious about retention. Good luck

 

 

 

 

This is the bodys nature: it is a collection of over three hundred bones, jointed by one hundred and eighty joints, bound together by nine hundred sinews, plastered over with nine hundred pieces of flesh, enveloped in the moist inner skin, enclosed in the outer cuticle, with orifices here and there, constantly dribbling and trickling like a grease pot, inhabited by a community of worms, the home of disease, the basis of painful states, perpetually oozing from the nine orifices like a chronic open carbuncle, from both of whose eyes eye-filth trickles, from whose ears comes ear-filth, from whose nostrils snot, from whose mouth food and bile and phlegm and blood, from whose lower outlets excrement and urine, and from whose ninety-nine thousand pores the broth of stale sweat seeps, with bluebottles and their like buzzing round it, which when untended with tooth sticks and mouth-washing and head-anointing and bathing and underclothing and dressing would, judged by the universal repulsiveness of the body, make even a king, if he wandered from village to village with his hair in its natural wild disorder, no different from a flower-scavenger or an outcaste or what you will. So there is no distinction between a kings body and an outcastes in so far as its impure stinking nauseating repulsiveness is concerned. But by rubbing out the stains on its teeth with tooth sticks and mouthwashing and all that, by concealing its private parts under several cloths, by daubing it with various scents and salves, by pranking it with nosegays and such things, it is worked up into a state that permits of its being taken as I and mine. So men delight in women and women in men without perceiving the true nature of its characteristic foulness, now masked by this adventitious adornment. But in the ultimate sense there is no place here even the size of an atom fit to lust after. And then, when any such bits of it as head hairs, body hairs, nails, teeth, spittle, snot, excrement or urine have dropped off the body, beings will not touch them; they are ashamed, humiliated and disgusted. But as long as anyone of these things remains in it, though it is just as repulsive, they take it as agreeable, desirable, permanent, pleasant, self, because they are wrapped in the murk of ignorance and dyed with affection and greed for self. Taking it as they do, they resemble the old jackal who saw a flower not yet fallen from a kiísuka tree in a forest and yearned after it, thinking, This is a piece of meat, it is a piece of meat. There was a jackal chanced to see A flowering kiísuka in a wood; In haste he went to where it stood: I have found a meat-bearing tree! He chewed the blooms that fell, but could, Of course, find nothing fit to eat; He took it thus: Unlike the meat There on the tree, this is no good. A wise man will not think to treat As foul only the part that fell, But treats as foul the part as well That in the body has its seat. Fools cannot in their folly tell; They take the body to be fair, And soon get caught in Evils snare Nor can escape its painful spell. But since the wise have thus laid bare This filthy bodys nature, so, Be it alive or dead, they know There is no beauty lurking there. For this is said: This filthy body stinks outright Like ordure, like a privys site; This body men that have insight Condemn, as object of a fools delight. A tumour where nine holes abide Wrapped in a coat of clammy hide And trickling filth on every side, Polluting the air with stenches far and wide. If it perchance should come about That what is inside it came out, Surely a man would need a knout With which to put the crows and dogs to rout.

Edited June 27, 2014 by grabmywrist4

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Don't apply the idea of 'foulness' too literally, the reason for such language is to jab people out of attachment and aid recall, not to go to the other extreme of aversion. People have gone nuts from that.

 

If you're going to use these body contemplation methods, while you're doing the practice take a neutral, 'ah, the body is just these parts' tone, like so:

 

Just as if, O bhikkhus, there were a bag having two openings, full of grain differing in kind, namely, hill-paddy, paddy, green-gram, cow-pea, sesamum, rice; and a man with seeing eyes, having loosened it, should reflect thinking thus: 'This is hill paddy; this is paddy, this is green-gram; this is cow-pea; this is sesamum; this is rice.'

[RiverSnake]

What is truly nauseating and repulsive is lack of spaces between lines. Could you please adjust your writing style for greater readability?

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited June 27, 2014 by OldChi

[joeblast]

yeah, I periodically scold myself for being too lazy to hit the shift button starting most sentences

[grabmywrist4]

What is truly nauseating and repulsive is lack of spaces between sentences. Could you please adjust your writing style for greater readability?

 

My 2 cents, Peace

It's a copy paste. And I just reread it. There's a space in between sentences.

Edited June 27, 2014 by grabmywrist4

[GrandmasterP]

It's a copy paste. And I just reread it. There's a space in between sentences.

Try 'edit' then re-post.

If the original was set out properly in sentence/ paragraph format then your post will appear likewise the second time around.

Very few people bother to read blocks of text such as your OP here.

I did read it and am glad to hear you copied it as it's BS.

Also, if copying it's usual ( and polite) to cite the source by referencing or a link to the original.

Saves anyone with better things to do wading through the entire canon of Pali Sutta or whichever other textual source or sources you've quoted.

That one above appears to be from the 'Path of Purification' sutta and might best be referenced thus...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf

Followed by which page number of the almost 800 pages you have taken that quote from.

Hope that helps.

 

BTW...

 

Quick factoid on 'retention' threads online.

99% of retention boosters posting online are young men currently without a significant other.

There would appear to be a direct correlation between frequency of retention posts and absence of hugs.

Once a significant other appears, the 'retention boosting' poster disappears.

Edited June 27, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[grabmywrist4]

Try 'edit' then re-post.

If the original was set out properly in sentence/ paragraph format then your post will appear likewise the second time around.

Very few people bother to read blocks of text such as your OP here.

I did read it and am glad to hear you copied it as it's BS.

Also, if copying it's usual ( and polite) to cite the source by referencing or a link to the original.

Saves anyone with better things to do wading through the entire canon of Pali Sutta or whichever other textual source or sources you've quoted.

That one above appears to be from the 'Path of Purification' sutta and might best be referenced thus...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf

Followed by which page number of the almost 800 pages you have taken that quote from.

Hope that helps.

 

BTW...

 

Quick factoid on 'retention' threads online.

99% of retention boosters posting online are young men currently without a significant other.

There would appear to be a direct correlation between frequency of retention posts and absence of hugs.

Once a significant other appears, the 'retention boosting' poster disappears.

Thanks for the suggestion. I said it was from the visuddhimagga also called the path of purification. Can you be more specific on what you think is b.s.? It would be lots of fun to read your opinions on the body. Perhaps you can convince your previous partners to send you a cup of their poop, then you can post it here and explain to me about its beauty and why it's desirable. Maybe you don't like poop and you prefer more attractive qualities of the body, like the skin. Well then why let it go to waste? When it falls off people you should eat it, shouldn't be too hard to eat something so attractive right? Next time your girlfriend cuts her toe nails sprinkle them on your pizza and tell me how they taste. Looking forward to your reply Edited June 27, 2014 by grabmywrist4

[GrandmasterP]

Thank you, grabmywrist4; for that brief insight into your soul.

 

Edited June 27, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[juliank]

Grandmaster P I would agree with you...however I am the exception.

 

I would just like to say that for some of us...we have had plenty of experience in the sexual domain and could have female sexual partners quite easily but consider retention a lifestyle and cultivation booster in every way.

 

That is not to say that I am going to be in retention forever but seminal release would only be considered with someone who I am energetically and spiritually paired. I will let Life take care of that

[GrandmasterP]

Fair comment juliank.

I just call 'em as I see 'em and these retention booster lads online mostly conform to a type.

Very tetchy.

 

Edited June 27, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[juliank]

BTW

 

I only made my last post so that those men who feel sexually balanced aren't put off trying retention. It is not a panacea but in my experience it has been an incredible tool...However it must be used wisely and with discernment.

[juliank]

I agree Grandmaster.

 

If you read my post in OldChi's famous thread you will see that I actually warn those lads from even trying retention until they are in a certain place in their psychological and sexual history. In fact I would say most men are not ready and are engaged in it for the wrong reasons. So it goes...

[GrandmasterP]

That whole..

" I do this in order to become thus."

 

( Or in retention's case)...

 

"I DON'T do this in order to become thus."

 

Popular schtick for sure, and it always sells well; but at bottom it's pure duality.

Edited June 27, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[BaguaKicksAss]

Try 'edit' then re-post.

If the original was set out properly in sentence/ paragraph format then your post will appear likewise the second time around.

Very few people bother to read blocks of text such as your OP here.

I did read it and am glad to hear you copied it as it's BS.

Also, if copying it's usual ( and polite) to cite the source by referencing or a link to the original.

Saves anyone with better things to do wading through the entire canon of Pali Sutta or whichever other textual source or sources you've quoted.

That one above appears to be from the 'Path of Purification' sutta and might best be referenced thus...

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/nanamoli/PathofPurification2011.pdf

Followed by which page number of the almost 800 pages you have taken that quote from.

Hope that helps.

 

BTW...

 

Quick factoid on 'retention' threads online.

99% of retention boosters posting online are young men currently without a significant other.

There would appear to be a direct correlation between frequency of retention posts and absence of hugs.

Once a significant other appears, the 'retention boosting' poster disappears.

 

I remember when I first came on as staff here, I had reported a post for not citing where they pasted it from online....

 

I was saddened to hear that that wasn't board policy . I've mostly gotten over it LOL.

 

No I didn't read the OP, but I read all the replies .

 

Retention practices are generally done alongside qigong or neigong or something else with a qualified teacher watching your progress (to make sure no odd blockages come up and etc.) 100 days is quite common.

Edited June 27, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[GrandmasterP]

@ BKA.....

 

I have read your words and they are true

indistinct from the deepest truths

at first we mistake this magic gem as rubble

then suddenly we see it as a jewel

ignorance and wisdom aren't different

the ten thousand dharmas are simply so

but for those who cling to dualistic views

I take out my brush and write down these words

"Don't see yourself as anything but a buddha."

Why search for a place where nothing at all remains?

 

( Hui k'o in Hsukaosengchuan: 16).

 

Edited June 27, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[grabmywrist4]

That whole..

" I do this in order to become thus."

 

( Or in retention's case)...

 

"I DON'T do this in order to become thus."

 

Popular schtick for sure, and it always sells well; but at bottom it's pure duality.

I practice retention because when I practice retention, I feel good, when I don't practice retention, I feel bad. It's simple. Retention doesn't sell well. People aren't lining up to practice celibacy or sex without orgasm. People are lining up to do the opposite. And you're welcome for the peer into my soul, but doesn't your non duality views mean we are one and the same? In which case a peer into my soul is a peer into your soul, correct? And I don't understand your 99% statement. First, how did you come to this percentage? Second, so maybe a lot of people that practice retention fail, so maybe a lot of them don't have a girlfriend. If someone that is addicted to ice cream isn't around ice cream, then he won't eat ice cream, but when ice cream comes around and he hasn't conquered his addiction then maybe he eats ice cream again. What are you trying to say?

 

Thank you, grabmywrist4; for that brief insight into your soul.

 

Certainly the parts of the body must disgust you if me mentioning them requires you to comment on my soul.

Edited June 27, 2014 by grabmywrist4

[liminal_luke]

I practice retention because when I practice retention, I feel good, when I don't practice retention, I feel bad.

 

Well said. And a darn good reason to keep doing what you´re doing imo. I´m personally a little wary of long term effects on my health that some (but not all) well-informed and consistently sane commentators have warned about. Fortunately perhaps, I´m not successful enough at retention to worry much though.

 

One view I´ve read about counsels ejaculating in a moderate way (anything from once or twice a week or once a month depending on age) rather than trying to "retain" forever. I may be a lousy retainer but, when I attempt retention, I end up being an expert at moderation. Not a bad way to go.

 

LIminal