Mantak Chia & Iron Shirt 3 (Bone Marrow Washing)

[Horus]

I've recently heard some people commenting that Mantak Chia's work is dangerous, particularly the Bone Marrow Washing (Iron Shirt 3).

 

Has anyone done that work and care to comment on that?

[Jox]

I am not quite sure, but I think there were issues regarding packing the chi in to the organs ...

Edited June 30, 2014 by Jox

[joeblast]

Same as the other Chia stuff. The info is not bad but it is like its tossed together with little guidance, especially with regard to the fundamentals. The bone breathing book is some of the best stuff of his, imho. Just keep in mind its proper place in a practice set, lots of stillness after, just like with any significant energetic practice.

 

The internal organs are a little different, you can pack a lot more into bones than you can with organs, they will NOT like it.

[GrandmasterP]

Best avoided is Mantak Chia's stuff IMO.

Very 'harsh' , somewhat crude cultivation and, potentially; could do more harm than good.

It seems to be marketed towards appealing to men of a certain type.

There's better, safer and a lot less expensive cultivations on offer elsewhere.

Edited June 30, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Trunk]

1. Healing Tao cautions. (TTBs thread accessible to members only)

2. Essential reading external link: (available to anyone on the www) Essays/posts by 5 different Healing Tao instructors cautioning about the "Healing Love" and "Iron Shirt 1: Packing Breathing" practices within that system.

 

That system is patched together, full of half-truths and land mines. Best avoided altogether.

[Horus]

I am not quite sure, but I think there were issues regarding packing the chi in to the organs ...

Thanks Jox.

 

Yes, that's the packing process breathing (Iron Shirt 2). And yes, it must be done with special attention not to force it, and to pack very lightly.

 

Michael Winn did it too intensely in the beginning and developed little red pressure dots on his body.

 

So, when I worked though this I was focused on very slight packing - which I still do. That way there are no issues.

 

But, that work is not the Marrow Washing (Iron Shirt 3) - which I'm more interested in finding out what concerns there are with.

[Horus]

Same as the other Chia stuff. The info is not bad but it is like its tossed together with little guidance, especially with regard to the fundamentals. The bone breathing book is some of the best stuff of his, imho. Just keep in mind its proper place in a practice set, lots of stillness after, just like with any significant energetic practice.

 

The internal organs are a little different, you can pack a lot more into bones than you can with organs, they will NOT like it.

ok, so the bone breathing (Iron Shirt 3) used packing process breathing also? I've not studied it yet.

 

Thanks JoeBlast

[Horus]

Best avoided is Mantak Chia's stuff IMO.

Very 'harsh' , somewhat crude cultivation and, potentially; could do more harm than good.

It seems to be marketed towards appealing to men of a certain type.

There's better, safer and a lot less expensive cultivations on offer elsewhere.

ok, thanks GP

[Horus]

1. Healing Tao cautions. (TTBs thread accessible to members only)

2. Essential reading external link: (available to anyone on the www) Essays/posts by 5 different Healing Tao instructors cautioning about the "Healing Love" and "Iron Shirt 1: Packing Breathing" practices within that system.

 

That system is patched together, full of half-truths and land mines. Best avoided altogether.

Thanks, Trunk!

[Jox]

Thanks Jox.

 

Yes, that's the packing process breathing (Iron Shirt 2). And yes, it must be done with special attention not to force it, and to pack very lightly.

 

Michael Winn did it too intensely in the beginning and developed little red pressure dots on his body.

 

So, when I worked though this I was focused on very slight packing - which I still do. That way there are no issues.

 

But, that work is not the Marrow Washing (Iron Shirt 3) - which I'm more interested in finding out what concerns there are with.

 

A lot of info on that topic ... I recomend you to read Qigong, The Secret of Youth: Da Mo's Muscle/Tendon Changing and Marrow/Brain Washing Classics, if you like you may look at scribd also ...

[joeblast]

ok, so the bone breathing (Iron Shirt 3) used packing process breathing also? I've not studied it yet.

 

Thanks JoeBlast

I was just about to reference a thing or two from the book....but oops, I've lent it out

[Horus]

A lot of info on that topic ... I recomend you to read Qigong, The Secret of Youth: Da Mo's Muscle/Tendon Changing and Marrow/Brain Washing Classics, if you like you may look at scribd also ...

Great, thanks Jox. You know I love a good book!

[thelerner]

As you get deeper, its so important to have access to an experienced teacher who can give real feedback.

 

 

add on edit> I like Michael Winn's take on Healing Tao exercises. Especially if you can take his live seminars.

Edited July 2, 2014 by thelerner

[ChiDragon]

For those who wants to know what Iron Shirt is all about. Iron Shirt means that you are wearing a shirt which repels anybody get near you. As soon one touches you, one flies away from you. Btw Iron Shirt is a very powerful form of Neigond(內功). In Tai Ji Quan, Fajin is the internal strength, thus it is a form of Neigong. In general, anything has something to do internally is considered Neigong.

Edited July 4, 2014 by ChiDragon

[thelerner]

For those who wants to know what Iron Shirt is all about. Iron Shirt means that you are wearing a shirt which repels anybody get near you. As soon one touches you, one flies away from you. Btw Iron Shirt is a very powerful form of Neigond(內功).

Huh, I wonder if that's considered the highest form of Iron Shirt. I always thought Iron Shirt was a skill/gong that was more like body armoring. In one form I studied, Kaishan, the higher ups would be pounding each other with pretty thick rods.

 

I thought the Healing Tao Irons Shirt was more health based and less martial/impact based then that.

Edited July 4, 2014 by thelerner

[Phenomniverse]

Best avoided is Mantak Chia's stuff IMO.

Very 'harsh' , somewhat crude cultivation and, potentially; could do more harm than good.

It seems to be marketed towards appealing to men of a certain type.

There's better, safer and a lot less expensive cultivations on offer elsewhere.

Elsewhere? Where/who do you recommend?

[ChiDragon]

Huh, I wonder if that's considered the highest form of Iron Shirt.

 

Yes, It is the highest form of Neigong. I forgot to mention it.

[Horus]

For those who wants to know what Iron Shirt is all about. Iron Shirt means that you are wearing a shirt which repels anybody get near you. As soon one touches you, one flies away from you. Btw Iron Shirt is a very powerful form of Neigond(內功). In Tai Ji Quan, Fajin is the internal strength, thus it is a form of Neigong. In general, anything has something to do internally is considered Neigong.

 

Thanks ChiDragon

 

When I fist watched those kinds of demonstrations I was sure it would require a teacher to reach that level.

 

After having done the baby steps of IronShirt for about 2 years now I understand that the practices are the teacher (embrace the tree, packing process breathing, rooting, advanced postures).

 

I can now feel the preliminary developments of the same power, and i'm humbled to realise its the simplicity of a return to resonance with nature that delivers it.

 

I recognise it immediately in the "serenity" issuing from this master - its the same serenity that a tree sits with, that my dog sits in all day - oneness with her (Earth).

 

So many questions are answered by the relinquishment of desire for advancement and a wholehearted yielding to practice.

[Phenomniverse]

Nice post, thank horus.

When I fist watched those kinds of demonstrations I was sure it would require a teacher to reach that level.

After having done the baby steps of IronShirt for about 2 years now I understand that the practices are the teacher (embrace the tree, packing process breathing, rooting, advanced postures).

Are you saying that you learned these 'baby steps' without a teacher? Like from a book or something?

[Horus]

Nice post, thank horus.

Are you saying that you learned these 'baby steps' without a teacher? Like from a book or something?

Well, it wasn't what I was saying - but that is the case.

 

I read Mantak Chia's Iron Shirt 1 (inside out, and re-transcribed the whole thing), then I read about Michael Winn's experiences, then I watched videos (youtube.com etc) of masters doing iron shirt - until I had a functional understanding of what it was about.

 

[interested in "Qigong, The Secret of Youth: Da Mo's Muscle/Tendon Changing and Marrow/Brain Washing Classics" now also, thanks Jox for that post ]

 

I then started to apply the principles and exercises in "baby step" process... (without a "teacher").

 

I'm not close to a teacher, but have not got one.

 

So, I talk with my guides and other resources, read, read, meditate and what I call "seed trial" methods and then expand on them.

 

I worked with a chair sitting meditation to come into stillness (feet locked/rooted) and "asked" the earth yin to show me what this is. And it did. Ever so subtle coolness ascended with my ultra slight "allowance" and felt it purge me. I imagined being pushed while feeling that energy - and it "showed" me what it was about.

 

So, all of that only happened after about 6 months of embracing the tree and yiquan - what I chose to be a foundation.

 

Learned how to release pressure when it pools at the heart/diaphragm was the biggest risk mediator. And actually a great technique to release/ease tensions in the higher work when I reached it eg lesser k&l initial meds etc

 

So, too a lesser degree I can do mental rooting also now - but it's still much stronger if I ask my wife to push me around

[orb]

For those who wants to know what Iron Shirt is all about. Iron Shirt means that you are wearing a shirt which repels anybody get near you. As soon one touches you, one flies away from you. Btw Iron Shirt is a very powerful form of Neigond(內功). In Tai Ji Quan, Fajin is the internal strength, thus it is a form of Neigong. In general, anything has something to do internally is considered Neigong.

 

 

By "anybody" you meant to say all his students that strongly believe in this show.

[ChiDragon]

By "anybody" you meant to say all his students that strongly believe in this show.

 

No, it is up to you to believe it or not. Do you have such power in you to convince yourself to believe it. Most people do not believe what they see is because they have never experienced such power in the body.

[Horus]

By "anybody" you meant to say all his students that strongly believe in this show.

I liked that comment orb, because it raises an important question.

 

There has been a lot of doubt surrounding such displays - with the notion that it looks real because the students are influenced or "brain washed" by the teacher.

 

So, it's a "justified" rationalisation. But rationalisation will only take you so far in correct perception.

 

Once one's Shen has sufficiently developed and stabilised - correct perception makes itself hummingly clearer.

 

That is what I was talking about in the previous post where I mentioned the tranquility/serenity/peacefulness that was issuing from this guy in the video. It is all around the stage, wrapping over everyone, and issues in bursts when the students direct force onto his posture. He has connected and rooted with the earth yin - and it is holding his form not strength resistance.

 

So, the earth yin simply counters (or, where there is yang - yin will be) and the students lack of groundedness/rootedness - becasue their channels are not fully opened and they have not rooted into the yin, let go of attachment and entered compassion sufficient enough to allow the sturdiness of yin yang balance).

 

But that is always the case - he who attacks first loses is a precept of japanese swordsmanship.

 

You can't leave balance (which you have to do to "attack") and attack balance and win. That is unless you are so developed and you can do whatever you want.

 

But all that is easier to comprehend if you experience it first hand.

 

I don't have this guys level of development - but when I am very rooted and centered it works the same (just less) for me.

 

One night (more yin in the night) my wife pushed me, when doing a rooting exercise - and I was so still and rooted that she pushed and was flung back about half a metre.

 

So, yes, there is merit to the notion that the students just believe - but you have to believe to do it (to a degree).

 

So, they are not about to bow to a sceptics uneducated opinion and not bounce away.

 

By going with the energy they come closer to consorting with it. Brainwashed or not

 

We're never gonna survive unless we get a little crazy

[orb]

Believe? If you really think belief is going to take you anywhere then good luck to you my friend and sweet dreams.

 

 

What I'm still waiting to see is somebody who has the balls to take on the real challenge

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/jref-news/1239-mdc-changes.html

 

 

 

and not a staged show with his own "believing" students.

 

Come on guys go and get your million bucks prize - you don't have to use it yourself and ruin your humble "image" that you are displaying you can donate the money to the poor kids in Uganda, to the few pandas left in China or to

St. Jude Children's Research Hospital

and if you can't do it go get your Iron Shirt Neigong Super Back Bone marrow grandmaster to do it and he can donate it to the fine government of China if he pleases but please stop lying to yourselves.

 

This is getting really old already guys!

I bet you most of the people on these posts are not that young anymore....

 

There's more real power in these churches then in all Mantak Chia's system

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oqcG1Ws5FE

[Horus]

thanks orb