HELP: Seeking further textual reference...

[ChiDragon]

Thanks for the discussion on this, ChiDragon and Harmonious Emptiness. I have a lot of reading and learning to do. I've begun reading the Analects and now it seems there's another text(s) to look at (The Four Canons of the Yellow Emperor). Though, it so far seems that I may have to buy this latter one.

 

You welcome and welcome to TTB. We are glad to share and pursuit the knowledge that you are interested in.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

 

 

Compound character meaning....

寬宏: widely encompass;

大量: great amount

 

寬宏大量: encompass with great tolerance

 

If you are insisting to use the word "generous", then, you are generous in your tolerance to forgive someone.

 

I guess the thing is that for an English speaker, to "tolerate" something means that it bothers you but you don't act on the irritation. The virtue that Confucius describes as "spaciousness" seems to mean more that they are so broad and open that these things are "like water off a ducks back." You don't really say someone has a "tolerant heart," for example, but you could say that they have a "generous heart" which would suggest that they are also merciful et all.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Harmonious Emptiness

[ChiDragon]

I guess the thing is that for an English speaker, to "tolerate" something means that it bothers you but you don't act on the irritation. The virtue that Confucius describes as "spaciousness" seems to mean more that they are so broad and open that these things are "like water off a ducks back." You don't really say someone has a "tolerant heart," for example, but you could say that they have a "generous heart" which would suggest that they are also merciful et all.

 

That is what it means exactly in the Confucian philosophy as indicated in red. Well, I think the difference is in our communication. To a Chinese, one has a "tolerant heart" and to an English speaker, one has a "generous heart". However, we are talking about the same thing but the cultural linguistic expressions are different because of the choice of words. Finally, I think you do understand what I meant; and I see where you are coming from.

 

 

[Daeluin]

Ah. Well.... at the end of Thomas Cleary's Volume IV of the Taoist Classics, the Taoist I Ching by Liu I Ming, there is an arcana section. One particular chapter seems to explore this topic:

 

 

The Lo Writing

 

The Lo Writing (Lo Shu) is another of the most ancient artifacts of Chinese civilization. Whereas the River Diagram (He Tu) is traditionally considered to be of prehistoric origin and associated with the primal Tao, the Lo Writing is attributed to historical times and associated with the temporal Tao.

 

Like the River Diagram, the Lo Writing is said to have been found in the pattern on the back of a supernatural creature, this time an uncanny turtle that emerged from the Lo River at the time of a great flood in the late third millennium B.C.E. The River Diagram is associated with the time of the prehistorical culture hero Fu Hsi, whose work is thought of as creative, while the Lo Writing is associated with the time of the later king Yu, a quasi-historical culture hero whose work is thought of in terms of rescue and salvation.

 

To illustrate the idea, Liu I-ming says of the Lo Writing, "Nature has the quality of love for life, so it used an uncanny turtle to divulge the Tao of restoration and return, to guide people to return home and recognize their origin, to set their feet on the fundamental basis of [xing] and [ming]."

 

The design of the Lo Writing is very simple, consisting of nine sets of dots - one set in each of the cardinal and intermediate directions and one set in the center - that stand for the yin and yang five elements. In these terms, the "fall" of humankind is described as follows: turbid vitality overcomes the original spirit, the intellectual spirit overcomes the original sense, arbitrary emotions overcome the original essence, temperamental nature overcomes the original energy, and wandering attention overcomes the original vitality.

 

Liu I-ming summarizes this "fall" in these terms: "The real gets buried and the false runs wild. People have all sorts of emotions, feelings, and desires, developing complex and involuted psychologies. A hundred worries disturb their minds, then the thousand things tax their bodies. They think what is miserable is enjoyable, they think what is false is real. They have entirely lost the original state."

 

The remedy for this is again said to be in the center, which represents will, attention, sincerity, or truthfulness. According to Liu, the set in the center of the Lo Diagram signifies that kindness, justice, courtesy, and wisdom are all rooted in truthfulness, while the surrounding sets represent using truthfulness to operate kindness, justice, courtesy, and wisdom.

 

Truthfulness, Liu continues, has the meaning of true belief: "Truly believe in kindness, and you can be kind. Truly believe in justice, and you can be just. Truly believe in courtesy, and you can be courteous. Truly believe in wisdom, and you can be wise. Truthfulness alone can be kindness, justice, courtesy, and wisdom, all according to the changes that take place in the mind."

 

Pursuing the definition of truthfulness to a deeper level, Liu calls it the means to restore the primal and equates the experience of the return of the primal with truth. For a practical expression of truthfulness as a means, Liu turns to a section of the Taoist classic Tao-te Ching traditionally used as a meditation guide: "In a flash of enlightenment, something is there. In the utter darkness, vitality is there. That vitality is very real, at its center is a truth." This truth, Liu says, is the experience of the return of the primal, attained through profound abstraction.

 

Liu also uses the scheme of the five virtues to elaborate on the outgrowth of this return to truth, or restoration of the primal. When wisdom is based on truthfulness, he says, knowledge is not used randomly; you are free from greed and ambition, your mind is peaceful and its energy is harmonious. Then you are pleased with reality and produce courtesy from within wisdom. When courtesy is based on wisdom, you can harmonize with those unlike yourself and you do not do anything discourteous; impatience sublimates, so that you no longer become angry but instead become just.

 

When justice is based on courtesy, Liu continues, you are just without bias, able to adapt to changes while following guidelines in your actions. Then you delight in good and develop kindness. When kindness is based on justice, you are kind without being weak, as good as possible, without evil, sincerely whole-hearted, without duplicity. Then you are free from selfish desires and are therefore truthful.

 

When truthfulness is based on kindness, forming the final link in the circle, you are steadfast and unwavering; true will appears, and wandering attention quiets down. Celestial and mundane intentions combine, so that you can be joyful, angry, sad, or pleased, all without selfish desire.

 

This state is called the subordination of the temporal to the primal; Liu says, "Merged with the design of nature, not conceiving human desires, you return to the origin of life, so that you realize your original self." In Taoist terms, this is called the formation of the spiritual embryo, or the crystallization of the gold pill. In Confucian terms, it is called clarifying the good and returning to the origin. In Buddhist terms, it is called great wisdom reaching the ultimate aim.

 

The description uses the controlling cycle of the five phases to demonstrate the conditioning process and ultimate separation of the five virtues. Then it is emphasized how truthfulness (fidelity) is at the heart of preserving virtue. Then is described beginning with truthfulness, how the controlling cycle of the five phases may be used in the process of returning the five virtues to the primordial, pure state. This is the process of refinement in energy work. It is interesting how in this process, it is necessary for one phase to rest upon and accept the work of the element which controls it. Thus the cycle maintains balance without one phase every becoming too attached to it's self and refusing to be changed when moved by its controller.

 

Studying the virtues in this way greatly helped me understand how they all work together, AND how they tend to express themselves when one phase becomes dominant. A fire type person might be very impatient and rage on like a wild fire chasing after their desires. To truly overcome this, the water needs to be still, which requires earth, truthfulness. Ever mix a handful of dirt into a glass of water and stir it up? Over time it settles and the water becomes clear. But one must be sincere in their patience - when this fire person summons this sincerity, the water clarifies and the impatience of fire turns to social harmony and courtesy, and clarity with which to discern the wisdom.

 

dao zhen posted a document which explores this system of virtues with the Lo Diagram, and also uses this arrangement with the magic square, which I found very revealing.

 

Thought I'd share this as it seems to fit the theme here. Hope it helps!

[nestentrie]

Thanks Daeluin. I will check this out. It's almost the same as I am doing myself. I am slowly working on 4 types (or sets) of virtues that all fit into the wu xing. A set for Agreement, a set for Knowledge, a set for Belief, and a set for Acceptance. It'll be interesting to see if it matches up or not, and if it doesn't where I might learn something and improve my own system.

Edited July 21, 2014 by nestentrie