What (?) Yin/Yang as Feminine/Masculine . . . (?)

[Lataif]

Is anyone else skeptical of the conventionally disproportionate Daoist association of Yin with the "Feminine" . . . and Yang with the "Masculine" (?)

 

I'm not talking about exceptions to the rule: "everyone has some of both" . . . or "some Men are mostly Feminine and some Women are mostly Masculine". I'm talking about the rule (principle) in itself.

 

Follow me for a just a minute . . . while I offer some counter examples to the conventional perspective. Let's consider, for example . . . some of the conventional qualities of Yin.

 

(1) How about Yin as . . . "contraction" (as opposed to expansion).

 

How are Women more "contracted" than Men (?) I don't see it.

Most Women enjoy expressing themselves in clothing and cosmetics, for example. That's clearly "expansion" . . . not "contraction" .

 

(2) How about Yin as . . . "internal" (as opposed to external).

 

How are Women more "internal" than Men (?) I don't see.

Most Women are relationship oriented, for example. That's clearly "external" orientation . . . not "internal".

 

(3) How about Yin as . . . "cold" (as opposed to hot).

How are Women more "cold" than Men (?) I don't see it.

Most Women are more emotional and less intellectual, for example. That's clearly a "warm" orientation . . . not "cold".

 

My alternative perspective: Yin Chi and Yang Chi are BOTH "Feminine" energies . . . and the only true "Masculine" energy is that rarest one (in our usual experience) that contains them both and from which they both arise: Yuan Chi.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Lataif

[Taomeow]

Is anyone else skeptical of the conventionally disproportionate Daoist association of Yin with the "Feminine" . . . and Yang with the "Masculine" (?)

 

I'm not talking about exceptions to the rule: "everyone has some of both" . . . or "some Men are mostly Feminine and some Women are mostly Masculine". I'm talking about the rule (principle) in itself.

 

Follow me for a just a minute . . . while I offer some counter examples to the conventional perspective. Let's consider, for example . . . some of the conventional qualities of Yin.

 

(1) How about Yin as . . . "contraction" (as opposed to expansion).

 

How are Women more "contracted" than Men (?) I don't see it.

Most Women enjoy expressing themselves in clothing and cosmetics, for example. That's clearly "expansion" . . . not "contraction" .

 

(2) How about Yin as . . . "internal" (as opposed to external).

 

How are Women more "internal" than Men (?) I don't see.

Most Women are relationship oriented, for example. That's clearly "external" orientation . . . not "internal".

 

(3) How about Yin as . . . "cold" (as opposed to hot).

 

How are Women more "cold" than Men (?) I don't see it.

Most Women are more emotional and less intellectual, for example. That's clearly a "warm" orientation . . . not "cold".

 

My alternative perspective: Yin Chi and Yang Chi are BOTH "Feminine" energies . . . and the only true "Masculine" energy is that rarest one (in our usual experience) that contains them both and from which they both arise: Yuan Chi.

 

Good questions. Here's some traditional answers:

 

1. "Contracted "vs. "expanded" -- or, more precisely, inward-directed vs. outward-directed -- is very obvious if you look at the anatomy of the male and female gender-determining reproductive organs. Transient things like who's more "outgoing" are socially and culturally dictated, ditto who uses more makeup (in some cultures, it was the male privilege) and wears more striking clothes (likewise). But fundamental things like who is a man and who is a woman due to the yin-yang dynamics built right into their anatomy and physiology are dictated by tao. Yin is inward bound, yang is outward bound.

 

2. "Internal" vs. "external" -- ditto. Compare, e.g., ovaries to testicles. Also in reproduction, sperm has to go out for the male and in for the female, and the resulting fetus is located internally, within female yin, rather than dangling off a man's patootie. Yin and yang are fundamental principles, and they are most obvious on the fundamental levels -- such us the level of actual anatomical and physiological gender differentiation and reproduction of the species.

 

3. "Cold" vs. "hot" -- this has to do with human body shape and its location in between the earth and the sun (which are our constant points of reference for what's more yin and what's more yang, since in relation to each other, they are a yin-yang pair.) Again we are on the level of fundamentals here, cosmic ones, and the place of the human in the "middle world" between upper and lower. A normally developed woman has a heavier lower part, the bulk of her body is thus closer to the earth, farther from the sun, and therefore colder. A normally developed man has a heavier upper part, the bulk of his body is farther from the earth, closer to the sun, hence hotter. I'm pretty sure skin thermography would confirm this -- on average, in the same ambient conditions, the woman will be cooler.

 

Hope this makes sense.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Taomeow

[Daeluin]

Great topic!

 

I see the concepts of yin and yang as tools for discussing different manifestations of polarity. What is important is to understand the perspective of the discussion. Without this context, yin and yang are both present in most phenomena.

 

In Chronicles of Tao I recall yang being described as a phone pole, and yin as a moving car full of busy people. The context here (I don't remember the exact description, so this is what I see in it), might be one of purity vs conditioning. But in the context of active vs receptive, the car is yang and the telephone pole is yin.

 

But does this mean women are more conditioned and men are more pure? Or women are more receptive and men are more active? These are VERY broad principles being applied to VERY dynamic lifeforms.

 

In the basic anatomy men have genitalia that becomes straight and rigid, while women have soft and receptive genitalia. The sperm carries a blueprint, which is imprinted on the egg. So far this matches the principles of yang and yin, in terms of the creative and receptive. I recommend reading hexagrams 1 and 2 of the yijing.

 

But does it just stop there? What about emotion? In the anatomy of the heart center, women have protruding anatomy while men do not. Emotionally women are more yang (active, warm), while men are more yin (slow, cold).

 

In terms of flesh, women tend to have a higher body fat content, which is a type of receptivity and follows the principle of storing energy, while men tend to have less fat but more wiry hard body-types.

 

What about in the context of reproductive cycles? Women have a reproductive cycle that tends to be very regular and cyclical. This may not be seen as yin, until we compare it to the reproductive cycle of men, which is very impulsive. In general men engage their cycles on emotional whims, although it is very possible to (I speak from experience) feel a deeper rise and fall that is connected to the moon cycle. But still, it's a choice. Women follow more of a natural cyclical flow.

 

So both genders have cycles, but it tends to be easier for women to embrace and tune into and harmonize with their circular nature. Circles are very balancing and harmony oriented, when compared with the very impulsive and wasteful patterns of male sexual expression in our society, which can be seen as yang in comparison. But also, circles can represent following a pattern over and over again, which is a yin type phenomena.

 

In general stereotypes, I DO see women who are incredibly social and active, but in a very circular way - not attempting to shake the world with their ambition, but attempting to craft the perfect social lifestyle. And I see men who preserve their vitality as pillars strength and power, who climb the very straight ladders of ambition, or who use it up in explosions of lust and desire.

 

But yes, these are just principles. I think these principles DO stem from the inherent nature of our anatomies, and so can be seen in the world as the stereotypes we ascribe to men and women as yang and yin.

 

But there is more than gender giving us yin or yang. Take Chinese Astrology (4 pillars of destiny, bazi), for example. When each person is born, Chinese Astrology maps out 8 different energies, each of which can be yin or yang. On top of this system you can draw yijing hexagram, which has yet another overlaying of yin and yang. Using this framework one of my friends was born during hexagram 1, line 5 - the controlling line of the most yang hexagram. She is very feminine in her way, but her strength and creative force is not to be ignored, and she tends to have a very "yang" style expression.

 

All over the place I see women who do NOT seem very cyclical in nature, who are very ambitious, who are pillars of strength. And equally often I see men who are incredibly receptive, with yin body types and even more cyclical in their sexuality, just by nature.

 

So we can look at the root of our anatomy to find the source of the principles, but we cannot forget that we have other very primal influences on our energetic makeups too. It's all connected and related. The principles apply to us all uniquely, which is what makes all life so special and beautiful and difficult to write off as a specific combination of this or that.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Daeluin

[silent thunder]

They're not opposite or opposing to me.

They seem to be varied expressions of one thing.

Human.

[Daeluin]

My alternative perspective: Yin Chi and Yang Chi are BOTH "Feminine" energies . . . and the only true "Masculine" energy is that rarest one (in our usual experience) that contains them both and from which they both arise: Yuan Chi.

 

I think this is getting into the concept of post-celestial manifested energy vs unattached pre-celestial energy. Here I think we transcend the ideas of Male and Female.

 

Really, I think the path of taoist cultivation is the path of dissolving the distinction between Male and Female. As we begin working with pre-celestial energies and merge them back into one-ness, the post-celestial expressions that manifest in our sexualities are no longer the focus.

[Silent Answers]

Sorry if this has already been said, didn't have time to read the whole thread.

 

Females are generally referred to as Yin because the female body is the vessel of life. Men are the seed bearers. Yang must reunite within Yin to become one, and then divide to create the many which make one entity, which becomes part of many, again seeking to become one. Blablabla yackady shmackady.

 

Because we are very complex things, the answer becomes very complicated to grasp... There's too many levels to consider... So it's best to generalise for what things appear to be on the surface as that's primarily what we deal with on a daily basis.

 

Of course, when all is said and done... It's all Tao.

[Marblehead]

They're not opposite or opposing to me.

They seem to be varied expressions of one thing.

Human.

Excellent point. They are not opposites - they are complimentaries.

[Marblehead]

To talk about Yin and Yang is not to talk about man and woman.

 

Talking about Yin and Yang is talkiing about the energies of the universe - Chi.

 

Leave the men and women alone. They already get into too many arguments.

[GrandmasterP]

I suspect this might turn into another of those 'shady' woman bashing threads if we let it, but in hopes that it doesn't then here goes....

 

There's Yin and Yang in everything and everybody.

You cannot sub divide anything or anyone howsoever small or finely that Yin and Yang still do not co-exist therein.

Co-equally dancing.

It's all Tao.

Light n Shade brother Lataif.

One presumes the other, neither can exist independent of the other.

It's all 'is-ness' ( Tao) all the way down, plus the other nine directions too.

 

Free diagnosis for you bro.

( Forgive the intuited presumption but I'm a Doctor).

Imbalance is causing unhappiness.

Try cultivating MCO.

It'll do ya good.

 

Edited July 1, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Marblehead]

Yep. Harmony of Yin and Yang and on occasion, if we are lucky, a taste of balance now and again.

[Fazeng]

 

I'm not talking about exceptions to the rule: "everyone has some of both" . . . or "some Men are mostly Feminine and some Women are mostly Masculine". I'm talking about the rule (principle) in itself.

 

Follow me for a just a minute . . . while I offer some counter examples to the conventional perspective. Let's consider, for example . . . some of the conventional qualities of Yin.

 

These examples about post-heaven energies.

 

But in terms of internal alchemy woman is Yin at a fundamental level.

It can not be understood by thinking about everyday life.