How to build from the ground up?

[Songtsan]

Hello,

 

I have been reading stuff here for a while and there is so much information, my head always ends up swimming in confusion.

 

I have been reading a book by B.K. Frantzis on internal energy arts:

The Power of Internal Martial Arts and Chi: Combat and Energy Secrets of Ba Gua, Tai Chi and Hsing-I

and to summarize my goal - I want what he got.

 

I am limited in finances though so I can't go around taking seminars and whatnot.

 

I am looking to build a practice from the ground up.

 

I have dabbled with standing post to the point of failure...

 

This is one thing I am going to do daily starting soon (like today, tomorrow).

 

Besides the physical practice, where should I place my focus?

 

I sit there in this posture and then what?

 

Where should my mind go?

 

Lots of senses coming in...should I only be aware of physical and internal energetic sensations?

 

The book I am reading is an old one and I wonder what has developed since then.

 

I feel I need a teacher - is this guy good?

 

I am on the east coast....

[manitou]

I so sympathize with your predicament! I'll bet 10 different people would have 10 different answers on what to do. I guess, all we can do is give our own perspective; in the end, this new Consciousness is an individualized path, on which can be borrowed words from masters of all traditions to fashion a garment tailored specifically to your individual understanding.

 

Your martial arts path will build singularity of purpose and increase your focus; the discipline of anything like that is a necessary component which will blend together as you develop further into Consciousness. As for Consciousness, at some point you will probably mentally transcend the path that you are choosing, although it's part of the Whole.

 

My personal 'discipline' has been working the steps of recovery because I'm a recovering alcoholic. It's not martial arts (I wish it had been!) but it seemed to have worked because it led me into myself. That seems to be the key, in my thinking. To develop the consciousness, as you have seen, is something separate yet somehow attached to the discipline.

 

To attain any sort of clarity in consciousness, we must remove the dross of our acquired personality (that which we have grown up with, the 'error-thinking' of seeing things in duality.) This is a very refined and subtle thing that must be tweaked (well, in my case I was such a mess that it was more like reconstruction than tweaking). It has to do with changing our personal polarity from negative to positive, to see the world as One through the eyes of Love or Compassion.

 

So, my personal recommendation to you, in addition to what you're already doing, is look at what has manifested in your life. You have been the Creator of this. Look at your relationships, etc - all the relationships and conditions that surround you at the present time. Then, perhaps in meditation (although I used a paper and pen for this) try and step outside of yourself and see the actual part you played, without covering up for yourself or making excuses to place the blame on others. Realize that this is your particular 'acquired personality defect'. Then, set your intent on changing the offending dynamic any time it rears its head in your life. Don't be afraid to swallow your pride because sometimes this will place you in a position of seeing where you've been wrong - and once you discover what you have been doing wrong (defining the defect of character), then work on changing the dynamic. And don't be afraid to APOLOGIZE when you've done wrong, even if this crushes your ego momentarily. What we're looking to change is becoming an outer-directed person (thinking of others) as opposed to someone whose main goal is to attain and accumulate for ones self, an inner-directed person. And you'll find that the most painful ego-crushings are the ones that are the true walls that need broken down.

 

Your Intent to develop this Consciousness has already been set into motion. Now Trust that your inner 'guidance system' (don't forget, you and It are One - it's like you're 'god trying to figure itself out in this physical manifestation) will attract to you exactly what you need next. Really.

 

Hope this helps - and I'm sure others will post their suggestions, hopefully. Kind of hard to put into words....

Edited July 1, 2014 by manitou

[Protector]

Do horse stance

[RiverSnake]

Bruce Frantzis by all accounts is quite knowledgable. If possible see if one of his certified instructors is near you. Having a teacher is important. You may wish to look further on one of his websites for DVDs for internal cultivation. Also you say "I want what he's got!" You may wishing to clarify your intentions so people can give you better advice. Best of luck.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited July 1, 2014 by OldChi

[silent thunder]

If you're truly starting at ground zero... my mantra is

 

live teacher, in person teacher, teacher you resonate with...

[joeblast]

Hello,

 

I have been reading stuff here for a while and there is so much information, my head always ends up swimming in confusion.

 

I have been reading a book by B.K. Frantzis on internal energy arts:

The Power of Internal Martial Arts and Chi: Combat and Energy Secrets of Ba Gua, Tai Chi and Hsing-I

and to summarize my goal - I want what he got.

 

I am limited in finances though so I can't go around taking seminars and whatnot.

 

I am looking to build a practice from the ground up.

 

I have dabbled with standing post to the point of failure...

 

This is one thing I am going to do daily starting soon (like today, tomorrow).

 

Besides the physical practice, where should I place my focus?

 

I sit there in this posture and then what?

 

Where should my mind go?

 

Lots of senses coming in...should I only be aware of physical and internal energetic sensations?

 

The book I am reading is an old one and I wonder what has developed since then.

 

I feel I need a teacher - is this guy good?

 

I am on the east coast....

[manitou]

It has to do with changing our personal polarity from negative to positive, to see the world as One through the eyes of Love or Compassion.

 

I'm going to transcend my own words here, as I discovered the error.

 

Seeing through the eyes of Love or Compassion is still in the duality - although the highest place within the duality. To truly get into the One is to see through the eyes of High Indifference....the Witness state, where we 'witness our own life as though standing aside from ourself' - to see ourselves as we truly are. And to have the ability to witness life in a transcendent state.

Edited July 2, 2014 by manitou

[Songtsan]

Hope this helps - and I'm sure others will post their suggestions, hopefully. Kind of hard to put into words....

 

You are awesome Manitou. We have much in common. I too am recently quitting several drugs, including alcohol and marijuana. I think that the discipline of martial arts will tear down a lot of those walls that prevent me from being a mature individual. Sometimes though I see that my love of becoming a gongfu master is ego based, thus dross heavy, yet it is also so obviously formative enough to make the ego-driven means justifiable. Thank you.

[Songtsan]

 

But if I ride the biggest wave, and die young, won't I come back for more of the same fun? Is it so sad really? Can one not dance in the flames of passion like Shiva, forever content that one is forever involved in the dance? It's a real dilemma. What to choose. What if I have no preferences?

[goldisheavy]

Hello,

 

I have been reading stuff here for a while and there is so much information, my head always ends up swimming in confusion.

 

I have been reading a book by B.K. Frantzis on internal energy arts:

The Power of Internal Martial Arts and Chi: Combat and Energy Secrets of Ba Gua, Tai Chi and Hsing-I

and to summarize my goal - I want what he got.

 

I am limited in finances though so I can't go around taking seminars and whatnot.

 

I am looking to build a practice from the ground up.

 

I have dabbled with standing post to the point of failure...

 

This is one thing I am going to do daily starting soon (like today, tomorrow).

 

Besides the physical practice, where should I place my focus?

 

I sit there in this posture and then what?

 

Where should my mind go?

 

Lots of senses coming in...should I only be aware of physical and internal energetic sensations?

 

The book I am reading is an old one and I wonder what has developed since then.

 

I feel I need a teacher - is this guy good?

 

I am on the east coast....

 

This is rough. It sounds like you have absolutely no clue.

 

So getting a clue is probably more important than any physical exercise at this point. Try to read into many paths that sound like they might appeal to you. Determine why do they appeal to you? For example, if you want to be a good fighter, maybe drop the standing pole meditation, and take up Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or kickboxing instead. If you want spiritual evolution, maybe standing pole meditation is a good idea, keep it. If you want psychic power, then you should take a two-pronged approach: 1) spiritual evolution, which means broadening your understanding through various means and 2) concentration practice, which means basically exercising psychic power.

 

Also, if you are a heavily physicalistic person, do not be shocked when you can't exercise any psychic power. If you come from a physicalist background, focus on your spiritual evolution above all and see if you can leave physicalism behind first.

 

Once you line up like say 3 paths that sound like they might appeal to you and you know why, then study 1 of those or maximum 2, in great depth. So first go a little wide to get your bearings. Once you know what's up, go deep instead of wide.

 

Equally as important as traditions is avoiding dogmatism. This may be hard to believe, but just because something is ancient doesn't mean it's right, and just because something works doesn't mean it's the only thing that works. So just because tylenol works for pain relief, for example, it doesn't mean advil also doesn't work, get my point? So don't get overly hung up on traditions. Avoid dogmatism. Respecting tradition and being dogmatic about it are two very different attitudes that give two very different results.

Edited July 10, 2014 by goldisheavy

[Seeker of Wisdom]

Like ^ says, get your bearings. Research in brief the main paths out there, then go deeply into one or two that fit your needs.

 

Cultivators need to be able to explain what they do, what it achieves, how it achieves that, and how the results fit into the big picture of cultivation. Otherwise you will get confused and distracted, and lack motivation.

 

For example, shamatha is currently the core of my practice and I can explain that it achieves access concentration and the jhanas and what they are, the basic mechanics of how shamatha practice leads to those results by pacifying the 5 hindrances with the 5 jhana factors, and why access concentration has a significant role in cultivation as a whole by steadying the mind for deeper virtues and insights.

 

I advise you keep up whatever practice you're currently doing for the time being, so you are doing something there, but focus on research until you feel clear about what you intend to do.

 

See this Yoga Sutras commentary, and the Hindu subforum, if you are interested in things like Vedanta.

 

See the Tao Te Ching for Taoism, and the Taoist section.

 

For Buddhism see The Attention Revolution by Alan Wallace and, if you really want to go deep, Satipatthana: the direct path to realisation by Ven. Analayo. I'm also doing a bare bones guide in my PPF from the foundations up, suited for confused beginners.

[joeblast]

But if I ride the biggest wave, and die young, won't I come back for more of the same fun? Is it so sad really? Can one not dance in the flames of passion like Shiva, forever content that one is forever involved in the dance? It's a real dilemma. What to choose. What if I have no preferences?

nono, just the title - BREATHE!!!!!

[manitou]

But if I ride the biggest wave, and die young, won't I come back for more of the same fun? Is it so sad really? Can one not dance in the flames of passion like Shiva, forever content that one is forever involved in the dance? It's a real dilemma. What to choose. What if I have no preferences?

 

 

One Day at a Time.

[SecretGrotto]

I am limited in finances though so I can't go around taking seminars and whatnot.

 

I am on the east coast....

 

I live in South Africa, studying full-time at university, no income. I've been dreaming of taking Stillness-Movement seminars, Wang Liping seminars, Steven Sadleir retreats, and Damo Mitchell retreats. We're talking about at least $1500 just to get me there, before even talking about the seminar or subsistence costs. Fancy that +$3000 Wang Liping retreat cost.

 

Africa is a spiritual wasteland, it is only once in a blue-moon that we get a real master to visit us. I have yet to attend a worthwhile internal alchemy seminar in South Africa, never seen one even advertised.

 

Yet, every day I sit at Yoganandas feet as I read his unequalled metaphysical elucidations on the Bible, drinking in his spiritual vibrations and savouring his every illuminating word. Every day I journey with Wang Liping and his ancient wayfaring teachers deep into a wintery wonderland, over hilltops, through rolling fields, witnessing his sparkling diamond skin as he cultivates in the shine of the moonlight. Often I sit with Peter Meech in Dr. Chow's office, catching chi and circulating the heavenly orbits, and laughing at Dr. Chow's mannerisms.

 

In the cold dark of the night, when all have gone to sleep, I dance in the oceans of chi during Gift of Tao practice, after doing some stretching with Roni Edlund on Youtube. Then on my carpet I settle down for Stillness-Movement and usher in Hu Yao Zhen, Wang Juemin, Lahiri Mahasaya, Pranabananda and Michael Lomax.

 

Maybe one day I will get to meet a teacher in the flesh, but perhaps that's just a luxury.

[Songtsan]

Equally as important as traditions is avoiding dogmatism. This may be hard to believe, but just because something is ancient doesn't mean it's right, and just because something works doesn't mean it's the only thing that works. So just because tylenol works for pain relief, for example, it doesn't mean advil also doesn't work, get my point? So don't get overly hung up on traditions. Avoid dogmatism. Respecting tradition and being dogmatic about it are two very different attitudes that give two very different results.

 

Great advice...I think I should focus on physicalism and spiritualism...Psychic development I leave for later...I am not into real fighting, just soft spar and related drills.

[Songtsan]

nono, just the title - BREATHE!!!!!

 

noted!

[joeblast]

master the breath, the mechanics, turn all the noise down, then discover the energetics

[Songtsan]

Doesn't wu wei involve not controlling anything?

[Andrei]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[joeblast]

Doesn't wu wei involve not controlling anything?

Dont cling too strongly to particular definitions, sometimes concepts can have a very wide context - control is imho an inaccurate translation of the concept of wu wei. Its not necessarily non doing, but it is. consider "effortless action" Effortless action, "the zone," how do you get into the zone, practice, but now consider the why of practice. Practice is patterns, so by practicing you are patterning. Patterning at a neurological level, we've evolved as creatures of habit and its reflected in how our nervous systems operate.

 

So by throwing a ball many times, analyzing correctness and output along the way, one tunes the throwing to a high degree. Same concept with breathing. Sorking on the timing of it, being very aware of the movements - awareness is key, these are all exercises in awareness, consider it a multiplier in the equation - by having focused awareness, it more thoroughly ingrains the action into the neural patterning of muscle memory. Building this habit energy of awareness, efficiency, harmony....many benefits. The breath pattern will carry forth while sleeping or awake when you train it well.

 

So what I am describing is a method to get to non doing, by doing. It makes non doing exponentially more stable, deep, lasting, once the patterning and requisite muscle memory is achieved.

 

By adding in key things to increase efficiency, the amplitudes of energy feel like they have more inertia to them. Things like:

-Relying solely on the gut to move air; when there is 0 neuromuscular noise from the olfactory nerve, sinuses, etc, it attenuates a key source of noise potential to the brain's wiring. There is a surprising amount of energy taken up by these processes, but you dont discover that until you have achieved tamping them down.

-Once the timing of the structures has been worked out, focusing the energetic culminations of the structures to the lower dantien(diaphragm, psoas, perineum, abdomen (think qihai point) and to a lesser extent sides and back;) where it will more efficiently add to potential

-Begin the inhale properly with descending intent near the junction of the diaphragm & psoas at the top lumbar/lower thoracic, in front of the spine. This will help master the transition between inhale and exhale. once you've done it enough it all rolls into one big breath. (non doing way back there in that context, you lose track of what's an inhale or an exhale any longer, there is just this benign gentle flowing sense of movement there, and...)

-Gently increase the duration of breaths but not so much as to make the body feed back, get longer as practice progresses

-Keep the awareness focused on the feelings of each of the physical parts simultaneously and as constantly as possible when doing an active implementation of breathwork, and then when doing a passive implementation, a little less involved....yinyang, waxwane...utilize as you may, when the force of your consciousness is stronger, easier to use a stronger method, but if you are tired yet still want to sit, it is a little more relaxing not to wield the force of your awareness as strongly, if that makes sense...)

-Focusing the awareness at the upper dantien in the center of the brain is an important technique, but the lower mechanics of breath are somewhat more important for starters.

 

Your focus determines your reality...within our somewhat known set of rules.

 

Take signals that you've heard a million times and dont seem to have much use for, and get them out of the way...

 

 

Eventually the neural potential for these things....like thought-stream-energy...will start nodding just like Linus there. Just so long as you have a more efficient process in place, otherwise, with free potential, hello thoughtstreamenergy and such.

 

Essence of utter and complete stillness.

Edited July 12, 2014 by joeblast

[Mystique Enigma]

In keeping with his doctrine that nothing be taken too seriously, not even his own teachings,

the Master loved to tell this story on himself: "My very first disciple was so weak that the

exercises killed him. My second disciple drove himself crazy from his earnest practice of the

exercises I gave him.

My third disciple dulled his intellect through too much contemplation. But the fourth managed

to keep his sanity."

 

"Why was that?" someone would invariably ask.

 

"Possibly because he was the only one who refused to do the exercises." The Master's words would

be drowned in howls of laughter.

 

[Songtsan]

Like ^ says, get your bearings. Research in brief the main paths out there, then go deeply into one or two that fit your needs.

 

Cultivators need to be able to explain what they do, what it achieves, how it achieves that, and how the results fit into the big picture of cultivation. Otherwise you will get confused and distracted, and lack motivation.

 

For example, shamatha is currently the core of my practice and I can explain that it achieves access concentration and the jhanas and what they are, the basic mechanics of how shamatha practice leads to those results by pacifying the 5 hindrances with the 5 jhana factors, and why access concentration has a significant role in cultivation as a whole by steadying the mind for deeper virtues and insights.

 

I advise you keep up whatever practice you're currently doing for the time being, so you are doing something there, but focus on research until you feel clear about what you intend to do.

 

See this Yoga Sutras commentary, and the Hindu subforum, if you are interested in things like Vedanta.

 

See the Tao Te Ching for Taoism, and the Taoist section.

 

For Buddhism see The Attention Revolution by Alan Wallace and, if you really want to go deep, Satipatthana: the direct path to realisation by Ven. Analayo. I'm also doing a bare bones guide in my PPF from the foundations up, suited for confused beginners.

 

I have delved deeply into Vedanta, Buddhism, Sufism, Shamanism, and others pathways of Eastern slant. I haven't practiced much shamatha or Insight...in fact practice is the weak point of my spiritual behaviors.

 

I am focusing on physical practices to strengthen my meridian systems and wish to also incorporate breathwork.

[GrandmasterP]

Good call Reversed.

Cultivation has to be done in order for it to be effective.

Whichever cultivation suits you aim to cultivate it at the same time each day every day.

Anything above that is a bonus but that core of disciplined daily cultivation is what sets the firm foundation for development.

The reason why the majority of people don't succeed is that they become bored or flit to some other interest and neglect the cultivation.

Ten minutes at the same time every day beats ten hours every now and again when the fancy takes.

Once disciplined cultivation is ingrained, at that point - but not before; one can work on increasing the time.

Baduanjin ( 8 Piece Brocade) QiGong can be worked in ten minutes for a slow steady set.

That's easy enough to learn and great mental training to memorise the mnemonic for the moves.

You can use it as a 'mantra' until it becomes part of you.

There's a Baduanjin moves photo- set via my ( Chinese Health QiGong Association) sig link or you can find sets on youtube.

Don't be phased by slight variations between what you see. That's down to history and lineage, they all work equally well so just pick the one that speaks to you and stick with it.

I'd strongly advise starting out with a standing set, there's less to think about with that so you've more space to appreciate the developing effects.

Warmest best wishes to you for every success.

Keep at it and you'll succeed.

 

Edited July 14, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[z00se]

This is rough. It sounds like you have absolutely no clue.

 

So getting a clue is probably more important than any physical exercise at this point. Try to read into many paths that sound like they might appeal to you. Determine why do they appeal to you? For example, if you want to be a good fighter, maybe drop the standing pole meditation, and take up Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or kickboxing instead. If you want spiritual evolution, maybe standing pole meditation is a good idea, keep it. If you want psychic power, then you should take a two-pronged approach: 1) spiritual evolution, which means broadening your understanding through various means and 2) concentration practice, which means basically exercising psychic power.

 

Also, if you are a heavily physicalistic person, do not be shocked when you can't exercise any psychic power. If you come from a physicalist background, focus on your spiritual evolution above all and see if you can leave physicalism behind first.

 

Once you line up like say 3 paths that sound like they might appeal to you and you know why, then study 1 of those or maximum 2, in great depth. So first go a little wide to get your bearings. Once you know what's up, go deep instead of wide.

 

Equally as important as traditions is avoiding dogmatism. This may be hard to believe, but just because something is ancient doesn't mean it's right, and just because something works doesn't mean it's the only thing that works. So just because tylenol works for pain relief, for example, it doesn't mean advil also doesn't work, get my point? So don't get overly hung up on traditions. Avoid dogmatism. Respecting tradition and being dogmatic about it are two very different attitudes that give two very different results.

I think this is important but.... Another important point is making use of what you have. You can learn lots from any path, especially at the beginning, and although people often say this path and that path are not compatible, they all end up merging at one point or other so therefore they are all compatible just in varying amounts.

 

For example, when i was living in China i had an awesome tai chi teacher who taught me amazing stuff and showed me things i didn't believe was possible. When i came back to Australia i thought, right - thats it i wanna learn more tai chi, so went to a few schools but to be honest, all the teachers sucked and i felt my technique was better than theirs, they didn't have that tai chi aspect, they were just doing the moves. So then i started to do aikido, and learnt alot but from a different angle. It wasn't as martial (or budu) as i would have liked, so i changed to karate, then to another karate with a circular aspect to it. Infact it's the most effective for fighting i have found yet, and i can still use the tai chi principles within it.

 

In my current karate i become desensitized to getting punched or flinching when a punch comes towards my head as well as good timing and distance judgement, in the 1st karate my technique and balance was polished, after my aikido training i see how sloppy the staff attacks are in karate, and i see how my solid frame was a limit to my achievements could ever have been in tai chi. I still love tai chi but unless i go back to china (which i don't want to do) i'm sore out of luck, so i just take the best on offer locally. So just using martial arts as an example you can see how doing different things can lead to an even better result. The most important thing is going for a quality teacher in every case, and each time i chose a school i went to several first.

 

And i would say moderation in everything, including reading. Reading has sent me backwards many a time over. Just try different things, nothing is wrong unless it feels wrong. Read yes, but try more. Not just for 10 minutes but for 15-20 mins 1-2 times a day for a week bare minimum before you pass any judgement. You really need 3-4 weeks daily practice before you can make any semi-informed judgment. I think this is the deep instead of wide as gold is heavy says. Once you find one you like, sink your teeth into it and stop searching around until you own it.

[Andrei]

For example, if you want to be a good fighter, maybe drop the standing pole meditation, and take up Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu or kickboxing instead.

 

Obviously who said this has no clue whatsoever.