BaguaKicksAss Posted July 1, 2014 I personally think that the most important bit is to get BKA (or Ken or Joe, or whowever) out of the room/session . The Buddhists folks state that one must stay aware and not lose awareness (but not have all those pesky thoughts either, and not be thinking about what is for dinner). Some of the more shamanistic paths go for completely unaware, even to the point of not remembering what happened necessarily. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KenBrace Posted July 1, 2014 That never happens to you? I'll start dreaming but it's weird, like you're still sort of awake but dreaming. I don't notice my ability to 'work with chi' changing, though. I experience this right before I plunge into a deeper state. It's not really what Mo Pai refers to as the 'borderline state' though. Depending on how you look at it, it could be said that it's inbetween waking and sleeping since you're awake while asleep though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Green Tiger Posted July 1, 2014 sure, it happens plenty often - when I am actually going to sleep. a fully aware meditative mindset, while it has a minor similarity or two, is absolutely not the same thing. master nan huai chin cautioned many times against this oblivious path towards dead tree zen. a fleeting and poor analogy from a master in an attempt to describe to someone who knows absolutely nothing of the depths he has experienced has been seized upon as an important practice point - enough that these guys parrot it all over and its like in the "fundamental bunch of stuff to learn" category for them, utter fallacy it is. that's why it makes me question the actual achievable depths by one who would hold that up as worthy of repeated notation. Yeah, I always just kind of figured I was falling asleep sitting up. I fell asleep when I was getting the taoist medical treatment at the workshop yesterday. I could hear myself snoring. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted July 1, 2014 Ken I'm curious.... you meditate for 7 hours (or however long), do you have any idea how long you are able to stay in that between waking and sleeping state? Sometimes I find that when I am in a really deep state it is easy to go on and on and on, and other times I go and ruin it all by thinking then sink right back lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KenBrace Posted July 1, 2014 I personally think that the most important bit is to get BKA (or Ken or Joe, or whowever) out of the room/session . The Buddhists folks state that one must stay aware and not lose awareness (but not have all those pesky thoughts either, and not be thinking about what is for dinner). Some of the more shamanistic paths go for completely unaware, even to the point of not remembering what happened necessarily. I've noticed that I somewhat loose awareness at a certain point, but I focus back in and realize I've entered a deeper state. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted July 1, 2014 Yeah, I always just kind of figured I was falling asleep sitting up. I fell asleep when I was getting the taoist medical treatment at the workshop yesterday. I could hear myself snoring. LOL that is the oddest thing when that happens LOL. I had to admit I snore after that . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cheshire Cat Posted July 1, 2014 What is the longest you've ever meditated straight in a single session? That was necessary to learn how to sleep in full lotus (no back support) Needless to say that I failed 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KenBrace Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) Ken I'm curious.... you meditate for 7 hours (or however long), do you have any idea how long you are able to stay in that between waking and sleeping state? Sometimes I find that when I am in a really deep state it is easy to go on and on and on, and other times I go and ruin it all by thinking then sink right back lol. That's hard to say. If you are talking about the true borderline state, then I have yet to reach it. If you mean "asleep while awake" then yeah I get there everytime although it's hard to calculate times. What happens with me is that I dose off and forget what is going on. I have no idea how long I stay in this state but evntually I focus back in and realize I'm about to plunge deeper. At this point I am completely aware like normal consciousness except I have no connection to my physical body or the external world. Other things happen too but I don't really want go that far. Sometimes I'm unable to make it past this point and after a time, start to wake up. That's when I start regain hearing and feeling of my body. Only once was I able to make it past this stage and go even deeper. That was by far the strangest thing I've ever expereinced in meditation. I would kill to have recorded EEG data during that. So yeah. I can tell how long I've been there because the two tracks I listen to are 30 minutes long. So if I remember listening to 3 or 4 of them, then I was out for close to 2 hours. It isn't until I stop the session and get up that I check my stopwatch to see exactly how long I was out. I can make a rough estimate of how long it took before I dosed off by remembering roughly how many tracks I rememebr listening to before I lost hearing. Edited July 1, 2014 by KenBrace 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted July 1, 2014 I never went past 2.5 or 3 hours. But I couldnt even begin to count the number of 1.5-2 hour sessions I've done. life been strange and I waste too much time here, so lately I havent gone past an hour. striving past a certain time...lol...it really depends what your state of awareness is. turning the light around at the niwan for a few comfy moments that equal about 2 hours is entirely different than forcing yourself to stay in a single spot for a few hours. when the yang of turning the light around wanes, it simply winds up being counterproductive to continue. the depth of your meditation, the positive duration of real meditation, is partly a function of the amassed habit energy. just like without harmonized breath mechanics and some decent dantien breathing, breath duration is pretty limited, without good gongfu and habit energy built up, imho the difference between 2, 4, and 5 hours is minimal. keep pushing yourself, of course, but gradually increasing duration will be overall more productive. hell, if youre talking breath then you'd best keep only increasing duration gradually, otherwise it is a certainty it will thwart the process. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aboo Posted July 1, 2014 (edited) About 3hours at the most, usually 1 and half hours to 2 hours everyday. It usually takes at least 30minutes for the body to quiet down. It may be possible to meditate longer if it wasn't for joint pain as BaguaKicksAss gets, Always had to meditate in the corpse pose to meditate for longer periods due to knee pain. Edited July 1, 2014 by aboo 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted July 1, 2014 About 3hours at the most, usually 1 and half hours to 2 hours everyday. It usually takes at least 30minutes for the body to quiet down. It may be possible to meditate longer if it wasn't for joint pain as BaguaKicksAss gets, Always had to meditate in the corpse pose to meditate for longer periods due to knee pain. If I sit with your back against a wall and some pillows if need be, no joint pain! 7 hours though, that would be rough lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aboo Posted July 1, 2014 Even in the corpse pose I get joint pain after maybe 2 hours, in the inside of my elbows, and its usually that pain which stops the meditation. I've only ever had one out of body experience when my crown chakra opened, and I suppose if I had stayed in that state or could enter it again, there would be no limit to the meditation as time and body disappeared. Things went back to normal however .Yup seven hours of continual effort is impressive, my body starts crying too much for that Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vitalii Posted July 1, 2014 What is the longest you've ever meditated straight in a single session? about 12-13 hours in half lotus position. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted July 1, 2014 Even in the corpse pose I get joint pain after maybe 2 hours, in the inside of my elbows, and its usually that pain which stops the meditation. I've only ever had one out of body experience when my crown chakra opened, and I suppose if I had stayed in that state or could enter it again, there would be no limit to the meditation as time and body disappeared. Things went back to normal however .Yup seven hours of continual effort is impressive, my body starts crying too much for that Sounds familiar. When I used to get pain for 8-24 hours straight, pain level 9 or 10, and just got sick of the whole hospital thing... I would use some really extreme altered states to manage the pain. It worked. No idea if this was a good thing or not, but it was needed at the time. Sure beat various medications which barely worked anyways. Whether it was just a really deep state, or astral projection though might be up for debate. Though I never managed that for 7 hours straight, I would go in and out of it. Somehow the same method never worked for my horse stances lololol. (but I think with horse stance the idea is to stay aware). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted July 1, 2014 about 12-13 hours in half lotus position. Holy hell! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted July 1, 2014 That's hard to say. If you are talking about the true borderline state, then I have yet to reach it. If you mean "asleep while awake" then yeah I get there everytime although it's hard to calculate times. What happens with me is that I dose off and forget what is going on. I have no idea how long I stay in this state but evntually I focus back in and realize I'm about to plunge deeper. At this point I am completely aware like normal consciousness except I have no connection to my physical body or the external world. Other things happen too but I don't really want go that far. Sometimes I'm unable to make it past this point and after a time, start to wake up. That's when I start regain hearing and feeling of my body. Only once was I able to make it past this stage and go even deeper. That was by far the strangest thing I've ever expereinced in meditation. I would kill to have recorded EEG data during that. So yeah. I can tell how long I've been there because the two tracks I listen to are 30 minutes long. So if I remember listening to 3 or 4 of them, then I was out for close to 2 hours. It isn't until I stop the session and get up that I check my stopwatch to see exactly how long I was out. I can make a rough estimate of how long it took before I dosed off by remembering roughly how many tracks I rememebr listening to before I lost hearing. Well if sleeping counts too then I get in 8-hours+ of meditation a night regular. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CloudHands Posted July 1, 2014 We need a brand new interview here 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vitalii Posted July 1, 2014 So yeah. I can tell how long I've been there because the two tracks I listen to are 30 minutes long. So if I remember listening to 3 or 4 of them, then I was out for close to 2 hours. It isn't until I stop the session and get up that I check my stopwatch to see exactly how long I was out. I can make a rough estimate of how long it took before I dosed off by remembering roughly how many tracks I rememebr listening to before I lost hearing. Listening to music during meditation is not a good idea. Without music you can progress faster. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted July 1, 2014 That's hard to say. If you are talking about the true borderline state, then I have yet to reach it. If you mean "asleep while awake" then yeah I get there everytime although it's hard to calculate times. What happens with me is that I dose off and forget what is going on. I have no idea how long I stay in this state but evntually I focus back in and realize I'm about to plunge deeper. At this point I am completely aware like normal consciousness except I have no connection to my physical body or the external world. Other things happen too but I don't really want go that far. Sometimes I'm unable to make it past this point and after a time, start to wake up. That's when I start regain hearing and feeling of my body. Only once was I able to make it past this stage and go even deeper. That was by far the strangest thing I've ever expereinced in meditation. I would kill to have recorded EEG data during that. So yeah. I can tell how long I've been there because the two tracks I listen to are 30 minutes long. So if I remember listening to 3 or 4 of them, then I was out for close to 2 hours. It isn't until I stop the session and get up that I check my stopwatch to see exactly how long I was out. I can make a rough estimate of how long it took before I dosed off by remembering roughly how many tracks I rememebr listening to before I lost hearing. You sure your not astral projecting (just beside yourself in your room)? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted July 1, 2014 Even in the corpse pose I get joint pain after maybe 2 hours, in the inside of my elbows, and its usually that pain which stops the meditation. It is obviously apparent to me that you just need to take up Bagua circle walking! Actually that is one reason I chose Bagua practice over some others, works really well. The Zhan Zhuang can get really painful after a bit, so moving is good (for me). 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted July 1, 2014 tough attenuating at the same time as stimulating, reduced to the factor of attenuating the 5 thieves, or the 12 thieves if looking at the cranial nerves...many many looped mechanisms in the midbrain. it is why the "wind moves the thoughts" the wind passing over the olfactory nerves... resonances bounce up into higher brain centers and this manifests as thoughtstream energy. well attenuated cranial nerves = calm clear mind relatively free of random spontaneous thought. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GrandmasterP Posted July 1, 2014 You sure your not astral projecting (just beside yourself in your room)? No, that's Apech ( the bi-locating cat guy) over there standing in the corner of Ken's meditation room. Apech likes check on us all every now and then. Conscientious he is. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KenBrace Posted July 1, 2014 about 12-13 hours in half lotus position. Ahh nice to hear something past 30 minutes to an hour lol. What was the session like? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KenBrace Posted July 1, 2014 Well if sleeping counts too then I get in 8-hours+ of meditation a night regular. LoL well there's a difference between regular sleep and conscious sleep. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
