Real Compassion

[Vmarco]

Tolle is not talking about some inner analytical epiphany regarding the false - he is talking about what happened to him when he Awoke. His entire teaching is about the Awakening he underwent and it is trying to point us in this direction.

 

Parsons has some differences but his focus is precisely the same as Tolle - it is about the turning point, the Awakening - but as you will come to see at some point, not every awakened teacher will match the perfect pictures we have of what they should be like.

Frankly, from what I've read, Tolle is a reckless, unawake individual. The quote mentioned was not to discuss Tolle, but to bring up the quote in context with my post (not whatever context he had in mind writing it). Why he said what he did about the false, having obviously not experienced it himself, could be classed as a miracle. Again,...there is no way Tolle is awake,...he spews too much falsity as being true, to be even be close to an awakened state,....for example,...his belief in god. The Heart cannot be accessed through belief. Without access to the Heart of essence, awakening is futile.

 

Contrary to your reasoning,...a truly awakened one does not contradict the truth. Sure,...woo-woo folks want awakening to resemble some belief they have,...(its like George Bush winning the election because he was someone that folks felt they could have a beer with)...a real awakened one would resemble something more akin to an assassin by the woo-woo's.

 

"Contradictions in perspective among those Seeing the profound do not occur" Taranatha

 

Both Tolle and Parsons contradict the prajnaparamita,...thus, one (Tolle and Parsons) or both are false. As I've yet uncovered anything in the Heart Sutra as false,...and Tolle and Parsons contradict it,...my guess would be that Tolle and Parsons are false,...although laced with much accuracy from the limited ideas Gurdjieff, Osho, and Neo-Advaita.

 

As Jed McKenna said, "One millionth of 1% false is completely false" Which does not mean I give a hoot about Jed McKenna,...and although I feel he's further along unweaving the truth than either Tolle or Parsons,...he too, placed a flag in a place he found comfortable in duality, from which he pivots from.

 

Finally,...back to this quote of yours...."The very first step - the gigantic step - is to Awaken" As I said,...that is not the "first step." There are steps. Steps for preparation. Awakening is about stepping into the unconditional,...which is like stepping into the speed of light. One does not step into the unconditional and lose their conditions,...the conditions (even the neurotic condition of "matching a perfect picture") must be dissolved beforehand,...just as time and energy dissolve stepping into the speed of light. You cannot bring time and energy with you. A condition cannot enter the unconditional, while the unconditional somehow remains unconditional even for a moment.

 

Thus,...as I've mentioned before,...no theist, like Tolle or Parsons,...will ever realize awakening until they let go of their beliefs (conditions).

 

Nevertheless,...as I've also mentioned,...these New Age purveyors are very refreshing in this deluded World.

[Jetsun]

If you saw Parsons in person you might think differently, as he says in his video what is important goes on beyond the words he uses. It is a resonance within consciousness which will point out what he is getting at, which is hard to recognise from a video, its primordial.

 

Some time after Parsons awoke his wife also work up, but she was just an ordinary woman not interested in spirituality at all, yet just being around Tony her consciousness was entrained with his which led to the seeing of the falseness of her separate self identity.

[gatito]

I've seen Tony several times and I even went on one of hios retreats about ten years ago. I'm singularly unimpressed.

 

This is someone who was (en)trained and "enlightened" by Tony: -

 

[Vmarco]

If you saw Parsons in person you might think differently, as he says in his video what is important goes on beyond the words he uses. It is a resonance within consciousness which will point out what he is getting at, which is hard to recognise from a video, its primordial.

 

Some time after Parsons awoke his wife also work up, but she was just an ordinary woman not interested in spirituality at all, yet just being around Tony her consciousness was entrained with his which led to the seeing of the falseness of her separate self identity.

I'm sure he has a wonderful emotional center that people enjoy bathing in,...and I'm very pleased with the Gurdjieff, Osho, and neo-Advaita ideas that he has built upon. There is no evidence in his words however, that he has awakened to the reality of Wholeness, which he claims and speaks of,...and thus no need for me to sit in at one of his meetings,...which would only disturb his followers.

 

I recall reading some his stuff about 10-15 years ago at Katz' Non-Duality.com. Considering what he said then, compared to today, I'd love to hear of him making a breakthrough in the next 10 years. He hasn't broke through yet,...but that is no reason not to listen to him,...or for people not to bath in his emotional presence. IMO, people need such teachers as Parsons. He's an Almost Awakened One,...like Adyashanti,...boi, Adya really evolved in the past 10 years. I hope Parsons (and Adya) doesn't become so vested in his teachings that they manifest a barrier to his awakening.

 

My advice to Parsons. Let go of this "beloved" stuff, and ridiculousness of everything being part of what is. I'm amazed that he cannot seem to hear his own contradictions.

 

Contrary to the beliefs of those who believe that wakefulness is an individual thing,...that individual ego's express their awakening in many different ways,...that one Awakened One's truth is different from Another's,...is not awakening.

 

For example,...if Jesus was awakened, then there is no way that Lao Tzu and Buddha were awakened. I have not seen where Lao Tzu or Buddha contradicted each other,...or contradicted Avalokitesvara, Tilopa, etc,....but all contradict everything about the Abrahamic religions.

 

Right now,...Parsons biggest barrier to waking up is his belief in the Jerry Katz Non-Dual paradigm. It comes out clearly in Parsons recent Youtubes. How attached is he to such beliefs for his identity I don't know. But if he continues doing these Meetings, he may be forced to confront them. So yes,....go to Parsons,...go to him often,...ask more questions,...it is good for humanity.

[Jetsun]

I expect if I went to see him 10 years ago I would have been unimpressed too, or maybe even 1-2 years ago. He approaches it in a way many people dislike but that doesn't mean it isn't an expression of the truth.

[gatito]

I expect if I went to see him 10 years ago I would have been unimpressed too, or maybe even 1-2 years ago. He approaches it in a way many people dislike but that doesn't mean it isn't an expression of the truth.

 

He's actually deteriorated considerably over the last decade.

 

He seemed a lot happier 10 years ago.

 

And, by the way Jetsun, the dropping of the attomic bomb on helpless civillians twice and the invasion of Iraq twice were expressions of the Truth.

 

But you don't have to like those either.

[Vmarco]

I've seen Tony several times and I even went on one of hios retreats about ten years ago. I'm singularly unimpressed.

 

This is someone who was (en)trained and "enlightened" by Tony: -

 

 

It is so wonderful that this person has realized that she is no longer who she thought she was,...and for her (and Parsons) labeled it as liberation,...which sure,...at that level, one would believe that they are liberated from what they perceived themselves to have been before.

 

When I use the term liberation however, it is synonymous with Avalokitesvara, who said, “As soon as one sense-organ returns to the source, All the six are liberated." Shurangama sutra

 

So,...I could be a trapped female, who at 18 lands a great job, and moves out on my own,...celebrating my liberation. Or, realize that I am not the me that I thought I was,...another realization. However, the liberation that uncovers the realization of the Present,...and that is true enlightenment,...awareness of the Present,....is the term liberation as I use it.

 

The dream, delusion, illusion, skandhas, 6 senses, etc., are all in the past. Time, energy, mass, matter,...are all in the past. Parsons speaks of energy, time, all things, etc,....these are all in the past. There is no perceived object in the phenomenal universe that is in the Present.

 

There is no Present (instant, Now, etc) in time. The Present is beyond energy.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Vmarco

[Vmarco]

I expect if I went to see him 10 years ago I would have been unimpressed too, or maybe even 1-2 years ago. He approaches it in a way many people dislike but that doesn't mean it isn't an expression of the truth.

I visited a few of his Youtubes. The things that people don't like are the best part,...No Me,...Compassion is a destroyer, etc. The problem is that he has not been liberated from his non-dual ideas.

[Marblehead]

... Compassion is a destroyer, ...

Yes, compassion with alterior intent is a destroyer. But I suggest that compassion without alterior intent is not.

[manitou]

The bodhisattva method of perceiving Other's brings the recognition that there is no One. The Center is not half of the Boundary,..Here is not half of There,...nor is One the other half of Many. The Bodhisattva method of focus on Other is to dissolve the "me." ...because it is easier to realize that there is no Other, than to realize there is no self.

 

I do understand what you're saying here, VMarco - I do understand the Oneness of all.

 

But this is a good way, I've found, to stay in Consciousness. It's a gimmick I use. Try it! While walking through a store or something, look in another's eyes and say to yourself 'This is the other half of me' and see if you can't feel the "shift" inside - from feeling separate from that person to feeling at One with that person. No boundaries between you - and any interaction you have with that person will be done with your defenses down and your understanding of Oneness at the fore.

 

It's just a little trick that works.

[Vmarco]

 

I do understand what you're saying here, VMarco - I do understand the Oneness of all.

 

But this is a good way, I've found, to stay in Consciousness. It's a gimmick I use. Try it! While walking through a store or something, look in another's eyes and say to yourself 'This is the other half of me' and see if you can't feel the "shift" inside - from feeling separate from that person to feeling at One with that person. No boundaries between you - and any interaction you have with that person will be done with your defenses down and your understanding of Oneness at the fore.

 

It's just a little trick that works.

Somewhat see your point,...however, what if there is no you,...what is this other half of nothing being perceived as something?

 

Cannot agree more....to experience no boundary. That is summary of the Heart sutra. Buddha said that the most important thing is this:

 

Gate, Gate, Paragate, Parasamgate, Bodhi Svaha!

 

Regardless of the misinformation,...the correct interpretation is this:

 

"To go, to come, beyond going and coming, into complete going and coming, where enlightenment is welcomed"

 

In other words, to come back into yourself simultaneously as you go out,...the full understanding of the reverse flow of contracting energy.

 

In the West, it is quite difficult to look at someone in the eyes,...in Thailand, everyone (except the Westerners) look,...and smile. It is one of the grandest "highs,"...to exchange smiles with nearly everyone you see.

 

My little gimmick for the past 30 some years has been to greet every situation with an Absolute Bodhicitta aphorism,...such as, "look at everything you see as a dream"....or, there is no Present in time. In regards to the latter,...all perceived objects are in time, and thus, if I am seeing an object, I am not Present.

[dawei]

I do understand what you're saying here, VMarco - I do understand the Oneness of all.

 

But this is a good way, I've found, to stay in Consciousness. It's a gimmick I use. Try it! While walking through a store or something, look in another's eyes and say to yourself 'This is the other half of me' and see if you can't feel the "shift" inside - from feeling separate from that person to feeling at One with that person. No boundaries between you - and any interaction you have with that person will be done with your defenses down and your understanding of Oneness at the fore.

 

It's just a little trick that works.

 

but that seems to be but a human-to-human variation on the Zen stories:

 

“What is Buddha?”

“three pounds of flax”

 

A monk asked Zhaozhou, "Why did the ancestral founder come from the west?

Zhaozhou replied, "The cypress tree in front of the hall."

 

 

I am thinking: If we need the gimmick to remind ourselves.... there is still 'self' on some level. But it may be a 'practice' at first.

[Vmarco]

 

 

I am thinking: If we need the gimmick to remind ourselves.... there is still 'self' on some level. But it may be a 'practice' at first.

Of course.

 

And then,...there's subject of "self,"....quite a biggie. It was the subject of Sakyamuni's last talk....the Mahaparanirvana Sutra.

 

The Parsons folks seem to have opened the door of "no me,"...however, their nihilistic version is not the big picture so to say. In fact, by Parsons own admission, his "no me" is just another form of energy, focused in a non-contracting direction,...which is ridiculous,...for if they were focused in a non-contracting direction, they should see that there's more to the story, as Buddha and Lao Tzu implied. The Parsons folks certainly shifted direction,...but then apparently became enmeshed in a duality created so-called non-dual paradigm, which is incorrect.

 

The destination of the magick bus should read: Further.

 

Once more,...pay attention to this quote:

 

"Contradictions in perspective among those Seeing the profound do not occur" Taranatha

 

Until you prove Lao Tzu wrong, better make sure it does not contradict Lao Tzu.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Vmarco

[dawei]

True compassion, from the Heart Sutra point of view, isn't that you are everyone else....

 

but that seems to be but a human-to-human variation on the Zen stories:

 

“What is Buddha?”

“three pounds of flax”

 

A monk asked Zhaozhou, "Why did the ancestral founder come from the west?

Zhaozhou replied, "The cypress tree in front of the hall."

 

So how to reconcile the above... it would seem to imply the Zen stories missed the mark by emphasizing we are everything else?

 

But it may be a referential issue on some level...

 

Meaning, the Zen stories may be a [physical, manifest] finger pointing to Not One as an understanding of False as False.

[Vmarco]

So how to reconcile the above... it would seem to imply the Zen stories missed the mark by emphasizing we are everything else?

 

But it may be a referential issue on some level...

 

Meaning, the Zen stories may be a [physical, manifest] finger pointing to Not One as an understanding of False as False.

 

Perhaps it's a matter of levels of models. Many Zen models (which in my opinion nurture a tradition of makyo) say we are everything else,...which is relatively correct. The false is pretty much the same as all other false. All phenomena is energy,...phenomena may appear different from the perception of an individualized phenomena, because of how the assembledge or vibration it is viewed, but is nevertheless, all just energy.

 

The Bodhisattva model, focuses on the boundary, the Other,....eventually dissolving the boundary, which dissolves the center.

The Dissolving the Center model,...aka, going within,...is a model, which from my perspective of history, has no example of the realization of absolute awakening.

 

However,...if Zen resonates,...practice Zen. Saijojo, I believe, is the most efficient,..but least practiced by Westerners,...who generally prefer those Zen varieties that include interfaith ideas, to mix and match their judeao-Christian upbringing.

 

Any model tolerant of interfaith, is a model that will never lead to the threshold of awakening. Those tolerant of interfaith (that is, those complicit in other's stepping between people and their direct experience) cannot access the Heart necessary to realize absolute compassion.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Vmarco

[dawei]

Levels of models. Better explanation for what I was saying.

 

what do you mean by, "model tolerant of interfaith"

 

 

There is the common idea of "The three as one" -- Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism.

 

but not sure if you meaning this.

[Vmarco]

Levels of models. Better explanation for what I was saying.

 

what do you mean by, "model tolerant of interfaith"

 

 

There is the common idea of "The three as one" -- Taoism, Confucianism, Buddhism.

 

but not sure if you meaning this.

 

If we look at a set of the various practices for the [thought based] activity of illumination beyond the status quo,...we could them models,...in this case, the version of a product (belief system)whose ideas promote a system of postulates, data, established opinion, inferences, or tradition that describe the past, present, or future state of something,...for example, there are 5 main models of Zen. Thus,...in this context, a set of all models would include the variant vehicles of religious systems.

 

Any of those models, far too numerous to name, from the Amish, to the Zoroastrians, that advocate a tolerance of the interfaith movement,...that is, that one should be tolerant of all belief systems, even those that cause hideous harm, like those whose belief practices steps between a sentient being and there direct experience, should not be tolerated.

 

Yes,...the Three as One is quite old, and bridges cultures where there should be none. For example,...in the Mayan Popal Vuh, god 7 has 3 aspects. Don't know why you brought up "the three in one."

 

Try this one out:

 

Where are the numbers 3, 6, 9 in the recursive pattern 142857 of the law of seven? The number 142857 is a cyclic integer whose digits are successive multiples or fractions of that number.

 

142857 × 1 = 142857

142857 × 2 = 285714

142857 × 3 = 428571

142857 × 4 = 571428

142857 × 5 = 714285

142857 × 6 = 857142

 

or:

 

1divide7 = 0. 142857142857…

2/7 = 0. 285714285714…

3/7 = 0. 428571428571…

4/7 = 0. 571428571428…

5/7 = 0. 714285714285…

6/7 = 0. 857142857142…

 

Within the recursive pattern 142857 can be found how form comes from empty, and empty from form. However, it is unable to do this without the fulcrum (9), or the other two (3 and 6). What we are doing here is looking at the enneagram,...not a psychological tool or parlor game, but as the foundational mathematics underlying all phenomena.