Why Does Tai Ji Starts with Slow Motion?

[Fazeng]

When I make video with real sparring I'll upload it to my YouTube channel.

 

Very interesting to see. really looking forward to this video.

[ChiDragon]

I don't know where to put this link, so here it is:

 

Tung Yin Chieh Long Frame Taichi

 

http://chipellis.com/Writings/Red%20Book%20by%20David%20Parker.pdf

 

I own the Chinese edition of this book. Is there anything you would like to discuss....???

[flowing hands]

 

Tai Ji has been mucked around with so much over its history that really one can't say what or how the original should or should not be practiced. The Monkey God taught me his own Tai Ji, it was fast, flowing and powerful, it made your fast form look like you are standing still. So one day I asked him, why it was so fast, he replied Tai Ji is a martial art and have you ever seen a slow fight! With reference to Stigs 'real fight' vid, a real fight is actually very different to this as life lost/injury can be sustained very quickly if one uses the wrong move first.

[ChiDragon]

FYI....
Tai Ji is a special form of practice. It starts with slow motion to build up the muscles tone. The moves are coordinated with the breathing. The first move is to inhale and the second is to exhale. Thus this practice will improve the the body condition progressively. Those who practiced Tai Ji properly will know the difference in the physical strength after a long time practice. If one practice Tai Ji very fast at the beginning, then it would be considered Kung Fu but not Tai Ji. Hence, I dont think the fictional Monkey King had ever practiced Tai Ji Quan at all. Besides, he was born with divined super power.

Edited November 4, 2014 by ChiDragon

[flowing hands]

FYI....

Tai Ji is a special form of practice. It starts with slow motion to build up the muscles tone. The moves are coordinated with the breathing. The first move is to inhale and the second is to exhale. Thus this practice will improve the the body condition progressively. Those who practiced Tai Ji properly will know the difference in the physical strength after a long time practice. If one practice Tai Ji very fast at the beginning, then it would be considered Kung Fu but not Tai Ji. Hence, I dont think the fictional Monkey King had ever practiced Tai Ji Quan at all. Besides, he was born with divined super power.

 

FYI one starts in universal stance and the breathing and movement of the arms is called 'imitating the beginnings of Heaven and Earth'. Your warm up should have started over 20 mins ago before you started the form. The great difference between when one learns wu shu and then eventually learn tai ji is that one comes to it from a martial point of view. Ones physical conditioning has been done and tai ji is then just another set of martial techniques to add to ones repertoire. Learn it in isolation and one will normally practice it as 'moving meditation' and other such labels.It was slowed down originally so that people could learn the movements more easily. Proper martial forms have slow bits, fast bits, the practicing of internal strength bits, fa jin bits, yin bits yang bits, etc etc. There is no difference between wu shu and Tai ji, it is those who purport to teach it and practice it that make it different, and a whole culture and perspective in itself has been founded out of this teaching.

The Monkey God actually knows hundreds of styles of martial art. He has taught me literally thirteen of them.

[Vitalii]

it would be considered Kung Fu but not Tai Ji.

 

 

when one learns wu shu and then eventually learn tai ji ...

 

 

It is not correct to separate taiji and wushu (or gongfu/kungfu), because taiji is a style of wushu.

[ChiDragon]

It is not correct to separate taiji and wushu (or gongfu/kungfu), because taiji is a style of wushu.

 

Well, I agree that the category of wushu(武術) is to include all the martial arts. However, normally, Kung Fu are always with fast moves. Therefore, the Tai Ji practitioners would like to distinguish it from Kung Fu because of the slow movements. It was only a matter of preference when people talk.

Edited November 5, 2014 by ChiDragon

[宁]

I've started experimenting, practicing the 99 form taolu (yes, Stig, it's the one you know, Chen Weiming lineage, learned here in China from a good teacher, actually I've been meaning to talk to you about the training, hope we can chat on messenger?),

I'm doing it fast, certain motions are slow, others explosive, still other piercing or crushing.

The monkey man is right, fights aren't slow.

[ChiDragon]

I think here is another good reason.

[GreytoWhite]

Another happeh video... the blind leading the blind.

[ChiDragon]

Another happeh video... the blind leading the blind.

 

Have you ever made a fast sudden move and strained your muscles....???

 

@1:06 is the key to the slowness of tai ji for beginners.

Edited November 22, 2014 by ChiDragon

[windwalker]

Can anyone come up with a good reason to the best of your understanding....???

Because its about training the mind, through building awareness throughout the body.

The mind moves first, the body follows. 

 

When moving, use your heart/intention and qi to do the moving, to do the operation. Use your spine and waist as an axis in producing the boxing sequence. Your moving momentum should be like that of a moving cloud, like running water, like pulling a thread, and like a hanging thread. Usually twenty minutes to a half hour is about right to complete the frame. After practice your mind and spirit should feel uplifted; your mind and perception, clear. 

 

 Use your intention and qi to carry the movement. The whole body should be relaxed. Sinking your qi and momentum to the lower place is taiji's correct rule. I (Teacher Li) have often seen taiji practicioners allowing their four limbs to move completely by themselves and to move without guidance. This may look fancy but it is a mistake.

http://www.qi-journal.com/Taiji.asp?-token.D=Article&-MaxRecords=1&-SkipRecords=0&-Op=bw&Name=The%20Key%20to%20Practicing%20Taijiquan%27s%20Skill%20

 

good article.  

 

We practice slow in the beginning level, and higher levels of practice for different reasons. 

In the beginning, its learning to identify and understand what is meant by "mind"  "qi"  ect.  In the higher levels of practice its about deepening what was found in the beginning levels.

 

In China,  when they talk of practicing and getting something often its in terms of 10s of years.  Which from a western perspective may seem long, until one has encountered those who've spent the time and attained some skill in the practice.

Edited February 22, 2015 by morninglight

[RobB]

If you can't do it slow - how do you expect to be able to do it fast?

 

Cheers

 

Rob

[windwalker]

Why Does Tai Ji Starts with Slow Motion?

 

A large part of the answer depends on "what" is being trained, or de-trained.

The "what" will determine the how.

 

It takes a while for a baby to coordinate its body parts.

Part of this process is the ability to build and rely on the bodies feed back mechanisms " Proprioception"

 

 

Conscious and unconscious proprioception[edit]

In humans, a distinction is made between conscious proprioception and unconscious proprioception:

• Conscious proprioception is communicated by the posterior column-medial lemniscus pathway to the cerebrum.^[19]
•  
•  
•  
• Unconscious proprioception is communicated primarily via the dorsal spinocerebellar tract^[20] and ventral spinocerebellar tract,^[21] to the cerebellum.
•  
•  
•  
• An unconscious reaction is seen in the human proprioceptive reflex, or righting reflex – in the event that the body tilts in any direction, the person will cock their head back to level the eyes against the horizon.^[22] This is seen even in infants as soon as they gain control of their neck muscles. This control comes from the cerebellum, the part of the brain affecting balance.
•  
•  
•  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprioception

 

 In taiji, we want to retrain this sense in order to understand where ones "center" is located, something that is normally an automatic function, unless somehow the body or  brain is damaged.

 

Fist one learns to feel and sense "it" within themselves and later this can be extended to sensing it in others. 

Often due to life and other factors we develop holding patterns within our body/mind that tend to throw this sense of self off.

 

This can be due to physical injury or psychological reasons.

 

The practice of Taiji, helps one to examine, identify the various processes in the body, and outside the body allowing one to work on finding inner and outer balance. 

 

The practice begins from the outside to the inside, later this will be changed from inside to outside.

 

Edited February 24, 2015 by morninglight

[Astral Monk]

Actually, taiji starts with no motion.

 

8)

[mYTHmAKER]

Actually, taiji starts with no motion.

 

8)

Taiji comes from a place of no motion - stasis - Earlier Heaven.

It begins with motion - Later Heaven

At this point one creates their universe

[windwalker]

Taiji comes from a place of no motion - stasis - Earlier Heaven.

It begins with motion - Later Heaven

At this point one creates their universe

so why is the practice done slowly?

[mYTHmAKER]

so why is the practice done slowly?

when you are learning you begin by doing it slowly.

When one does something slowly they have to pay attention to every nuance, of every connection,

of being aware of the flow, of having continuous even relaxed movement.

When one moves fast one tends to skip and be sloppy and can't feel where there are disconnects.

After one becomes one with taijiquan one can move fast maintaining center, flow, being soft, relaxed etc

[windwalker]

when you are learning you begin by doing it slowly.

When one does something slowly they have to pay attention to every nuance, of every connection,

of being aware of the flow, of having continuous even relaxed movement.

When one moves fast one tends to skip and be sloppy and can't feel where there are disconnects.

After one becomes one with taijiquan one can move fast maintaining center, flow, being soft, relaxed etc

Connection, flow, continuous, are all by-products of correct practice not the why its done so.

There are many other types of practices that would provide the same benefits, taiji is not unique in this.. 

 

There is no becoming "one" with taiji.

Taiji, is just a concept applied to whats already happening, whether one practices "taiji" or not.

[mYTHmAKER]

Connection, flow, continuous, are all by-products of correct practice not the why its done so.

There are many other types of practices that would provide the same benefits, taiji is not unique in this.. 

 

There is no becoming "one" with taiji.

Taiji, is just a concept applied to whats already happening, whether one practices "taiji" or not.

I may be wrong but you sound argumentative - of course it is easy to misinterpret on the internet.

by becoming one withTaijiquan one embraces the Dao.

take note I never said it was the best or the only way.

Doing and practicing slowly is a good way to learn in general.

My guess is you have no or very little experience of taiji.

I can tell you all about water but until you put your hand in it will all be conceptual.

[windwalker]

I may be wrong but you sound argumentative - of course it is easy to misinterpret on the internet.

by becoming one withTaijiquan one embraces the Dao.

take note I never said it was the best or the only way.

Doing and practicing slowly is a good way to learn in general.

My guess is you have no or very little experience of taiji.

I can tell you all about water but until you put your hand in it will all be conceptual.

yep you could be right, I dont have much experience with taiji 

http://www.morninglighttaiji.net/about.html  not 

actually I'm still very much learning about it. 

 

I'll keep that in mind about the water thing and all.

 

Sorry if you took my writing the wrong way. 

 

You mentioned some products of the practice, which can be achieved by many other practices.

 

My point was that there are really solid reasons for the practice to be slow that dont have much

to do with some of the products of the practice mentioned. 

 

One thing I do enjoy about the practice that I've found is that its very easy to check and see

what kind of understanding that one has in the practice.   

Edited March 2, 2015 by morninglight

[mYTHmAKER]

yep you could be right, I dont have much experience with taiji 

http://www.morninglighttaiji.net/about.html  not 

actually I'm still very much learning about it. 

 

I'll keep that in mind about the water thing and all.

 

Sorry if you took my writing the wrong way. 

 

You mentioned some products of the practice, which can be achieved by many other practices.

 

My point was that there are really solid reasons for the practice to be slow that dont have much

to do with some of the products of the practice mentioned. 

 

One thing I do enjoy about the practice that I've found is that its very easy to check and see

what kind of understanding that one has in the practice.   

If that is you in the website you know more than I do and if that is the case why not tell us why Taiji should be practiced slowly - if you have the knowledge please share- I am always open to learning.

[windwalker]

If that is you in the website you know more than I do and if that is the case why not tell us why Taiji should be practiced slowly - if you have the knowledge please share- I am always open to learning.

yes its me, I dont really like to advertise,  find it humorous at the suggestion that I have no idea or concept about taiji or its practices.

 

Not here to teach anything only offer suggestions or share things that I have come across over the yrs.

I do tend to question others view points in order to understand them.  

 

Respect and hold all views as equal even those I dont quiet agree with. 

 

 

. 

[mYTHmAKER]

Not here to teach anything only offer suggestions or share things that I have come across over the yrs.

I do tend to question others view points in order to understand them.  

And yet you offer no explanations or insights of your own so we can understand and grow.

I was under the impression that Dao bums was a place to share and exchange ideas and information.

BTW you never did say why taiji is done slowly.

[windwalker]

And yet you offer no explanations or insights of your own so we can understand and grow.

I was under the impression that Dao bums was a place to share and exchange ideas and information.

BTW you never did say why taiji is done slowly.

If you read my other post it should be quite clear about why its practice slowly 

its tied in with what are external practices and internal practices  talked about in another thread. 

 

When one understands this distinction the reasoning will be quite clear for the why taiji

is practiced as it is.   

 

In brief one must be able to understand and feel what is meant by the words

yi, qi, shen   The practice in the beginning is to develop an awareness of what they are

and later on how they'er used.

 

Edited March 3, 2015 by morninglight