Taoist Ethics for taoist PUA

[宁]

Hear-hear...

a toast to another strong example to the fact that, although we live in the same world,

everyone of us is living in their own particular world,

with their particular colours

and definitions to the word "integrity".

 

I want to share something: I always feel that people who dont respect each other, barely make an exchange of some sort. It's like their plugs dont plug. It's a minimum relationship, if such a thing can exist.

 

Pietro, all, I read the article you recommend, and for me it shook something, and made me understand some things better.

As for instance why being "Mr. Nice Guy" didn't work for me, and I didn't see it working for anyone.

 

And yes, there are a lot of women out there that think being too nice to them is not very normal. I think maybe is because they have a different definition on affection, build up by education, parents etc...

 

I tried hard to relate some way to that kind of women. But I couldn't. I couldn't even f..k them

 

But to say all women are the same...

Is like saying all men are pigs...

 

I think Pietro's recommended article can indeed shake some things, and arrange them in a more proper way, for some, like me, for instance. I met that kind of women. And that kind of men. But I found their life insipid. They are not whole. They can't even respect themselves, or at the very least, they have a very poor, or even worse, misunderstood self-respect...

 

Forgive me if I insulted anyone with any of my words.

But this is why I feel like: people like the ones Pietro talks about, exist.

And people like the ones VeeCee talks about, exist.

All that I have to pay attention to is not to confuse them.

 

Sex, God and Money are very delicate subjects.

Please handle with care

[VeeCee]

Forgive me if I insulted anyone with any of my words.

But this is why I feel like: people like the ones Pietro talks about, exist.

And people like the ones VeeCee talks about, exist.

All that I have to pay attention to is not to confuse them.

 

Agreed.

 

V.

[Pietro]

Hold on a minute.. men are true to their word and women are true to how they feel in the moment?

All those men who arent true to their word, by being unfaithful to their wives,"it didnt mean anything, darling, I was a bit drunk and it was being offered to me on a plate.." they're actually women?

And all those women who'd love to shag their best friends husband who made a pass at hem, but dont because it would be disloyal to their friend.. they're actually men...

 

What this article refers to, in my partial, and limited understanding, is not so much those long process, but the impulsive action a woman will make and then retionalise about it later.

 

What is he saying (and I heard other player confirm me as well) is that there is a gap. A gap that women were evolved to develop. A gap that let's an alpha male have the sex he needs in the species of primates we generally refer to as homo sapiens sapiens. This is especially true if women are in a relationship from some time. (2 years scientific studies say, PU community agree that a women married from more than 2-3 years is easier to game than a single one). When this happens she will have sex, often on the same day as meeting the alpha male, and rationalise about it later. Or just forget about it. And in general keep it hidden. From his husband. Being honest about what has happened is also integrity toward your words. And integrity toward your past. As a (gorgeous , another in the "if only I knew PU early enough!" ) female friend of mine once said:

men and women betray equally. But men are potatoes and they tell it.

 

Now, once you have accepted that the gap is there, the next question is, why is it so?

One possibility is because in this way women are providing a higher diversity to the gene pool, giving extra chance to dominant charatteristics. A second might be because society is more stable if the alpha male gets the sex he likes, without having to "posses" the females (remember all those evolved in prehistorical time, very politically incorrect). I am sure there are other possibilities as well, and probably some of them work in conjunction.

 

What I disagree with is that this behaviour only appears and is a sign of being unevolved. In my experience meditators are much easier to end up in bed with. While a non meditator (especially if young) will feel the desire and then either try to suppress it or being unsure about how to handle it. Meditators are quite happy when the desire arise to be complacent with it. After all they have already got themselves free from many social conditionings. And seizing the day, and living every day as if it was the last, is often one of their values.

 

This does the mean of attraction does not happen in meditators. It might work a bit differently, though. Surely the values will be different, for once. Attraction is generated in both cases. What attracts and what doesn't has changed. But I, for once, have a much easier time in places with a lot of meditators, than in places with many non meditators. And I am not that happy about it, I wish I could have the same percentage of succes with non meditators. It would make my life much easier.

 

So I will agree with Little1:

people like the ones Pietro talks about, exist.

And people like the ones VeeCee talks about, exist.

All that I have to pay attention to is not to confuse them.

... or you will run the wrong kind of game

Edited September 1, 2007 by Pietro

[Pietro]

Freeform, thanks for the long explenation you gave. You are obviosly much better than me in writing things in a way that can be understood and does not hurt other people's feelings.

In particularly I liked the maze example; which I did not know before. Can you give me a reference to that? Not because I doubt its authenthicity, but because I would like to use it myself.

I bet Pietro does at least a little in person... internet communication is a heady affair.

naaa

[freeform]

naaa

 

 

I tried to find some studies of the gender specific navigation strategies, but couldn't find anything specifically to do with that (possibly because this was discovered in te 1800's, and is so accepted, it's not tested anylonger) however I did find studies on google scholar that are similar and tested the specifics of this difference (specific neural network activation - hormonal differences at birth etc) have a look:

 

http://www.sciencedirect.com/

 

http://www.nature.com/neuro/journal/v3/n4/...nn0400_404.html

 

 

 

and here is an interesting article to do with differences in males and females: http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/sto...,937913,00.html

 

(here's an extract of what it talks about: Are there essential differences between the male and female brain? My theory is that the female brain is predominantly hard-wired for empathy, and that the male brain is predominantly hard-wired for understanding and building systems. I call it the empathising-systemising (E-S) theory.)

 

 

 

Cat - you have some good counter examples - and I agree completely that any generality can have huge holes punched through it. I'm using generalities just to keep things simple - it would get tedious to mention this each time. Also the way I used 'word' was a metaphor for mental/systemic thinking and 'feeling' was for emotion. We both do these but in general males rely more on systemic thinking and women rely more on feelings relating to the environment (and patterns found within)...

 

 

Also I read that article Pietro posted about women seeking social status etc... I agree that's the case for 70 - 80% of women - I'm personally after those 20 - 30% that arent like this

[VeeCee]

Also I read that article Pietro posted about women seeking social status etc... I agree that's the case for 70 - 80% of women - I'm personally after those 20 - 30% that arent like this

 

70-80% of All women - really? I'd be curious to do informal poll of the women on this site as to the approximately percentage of jerk men they encounter (present company excluded, of course).

 

Actually, it seems like we're spending waaaaay too much time focusing on the folks with negative qualities and not enough on the folks with positive qualities. I suppose if your goal is quantity (like Pietro) than you're going to have to work with the messed up ones, but I think your time would be better spent looking for the "good" ones (imo).

 

V.

Edited September 1, 2007 by VeeCee

[三江源]

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Edited March 26, 2015 by 三江源

[Pietro]

Alllllrighty then.

 

I'm busy digesting all this new pov about women: Making sure alpha males get the sex they need. Not letting their right hand know what their left hand is doing.. ie shagging someone on rapid impulse then 'forgetting it' / not telling anyone..

I'm rethinking events in my own and my friends lives, to see what shapes things fall into.

The first thing that is a rock on my horizon, is that in my experience, men fall in love. Men Fall in Love. So if you sleep with a bloke, before you know it, he's going to be in love with you, so dont lead him on.

Blokes fall in love, at the drop of a hat.

 

How does this fit in with all this?

Yes, absolutely correct.

It's called oneitis.

A disorder commonly found in AFCs, that forces them to think that one chick is so special that they'll do ANYTHING to get into her panties. The most common cure for this disease is to go out and fuck a Baker's Dozen of other chicks to see that one piece isn't that special. Also see the first question in the ASF FAQ.

Actually the first three questions:

1)There's this one woman (I've been chasing for X days/months/years)... how do I get her to [like / love / sleep with me]?

2)I'm interested in a particular girl I know from [work, school, a club, whatever], can you tell me how to get her to [like me, date me, sleep with me, whatever]?

3)But I don't have one-itis - my situation is different.

 

And is generally the first thing AFC have to learn when they reach the site. It is described by Franco as "the cognitive distortion of the only option":

This state is a distortion of the capacity of the brain to see reality, and that makes

you feel/see the beloved as unique in the world.

In truth there are in the world thousand of women who could just as unique as her

for you.

This distortion of reality has the same additive characteristics of alcohol and drugs.

In its absence you have withdrawal symptoms and you feel bad to the point that suicide

might seem an option.

While The Alchemy of love and lust will describe how when you have good sex with a person you release some hormones (oxytocine, dopamine...), and when those hormones stops being released and being in the organism a person can have withdraw symptoms like a person who has been given a drug and then took it away.

 

How does this sum up with alpha and beta people. The alpha, having enough sex, are less prone to fall into this state of dependency, and as such are also preferred by women because they know that will give them less troubles later.

 

Look also (again, probably) at the basic question: If ordinary guys get laid why do I need all this information?.

The first paragraph:

If they do, they generally get attached to that chick (one-itis), her being their only option, and when they get dumped they don't have a clue how to get another chick, and the cycle of "luck" begins with them again. After a while, they get sick of how hard it is for them to find a new chick when the "relationship" ends, so they choose marriage and...

 

Doesn't this describe precisely what you are refering to.

So the solution (tested by many people) is to put aside that one woman and try to have a lot of sex (yes quantity) with other woman. As your body start to have other options, it will be less needy for that one.

 

Only at that point, if she is still so unique after you have bedded enough women, then you might want to consider if the insane attraction was not just chemically based, due to a lack in sex, but was deeper. For example in the Game Neil Strauss becomes really good. And immediatly he stops falling in love with every girl he goes to bed with. Eventually, at the end of the book, he falls in love with Lisa. He can't have her, so he starts to seduce many other girls to get over the oneitis. Plus by that time she has about 8 fuck buddies friends with benefits. Still none of this can make him forget her. Same thing was happening on the other side of the fence, and eventually they got together. In one of the final scene, Lisa tells Neil: "this evening all the guys were hitting on me, I was feeling like a goddess. Are you aware you have in your bed the most beautiful women of California" (or similar), To which Neil answers: "Of course, I passed two years making love with all the women in California, to be sure".

 

So you see, also behind PU members there is a heart.

 

P.S. Thank you very much for the links FreeForm. I shall print them out as soon as I have the possibility and read them.

Edited September 2, 2007 by Pietro

[三江源]

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Edited March 26, 2015 by 三江源

[VeeCee]

Eventually, at the end of the book, he falls in love with Lisa. He can't have her, so he starts to seduce many other girls to get over the oneitis. Plus by that time she has about 8 fuck buddies friends with benefits. Still none of this can make him forget her. Same thing was happening on the other side of the fence, and eventually they got together. In one of the final scene, Lisa tells Neil: "this evening all the guys were hitting on me, I was feeling like a goddess. Are you aware you have in your bed the most beautiful women of California" (or similar), To which Neil answers: "Of course, I passed two years making love with all the women in California, to be sure".

 

I need to quit reading this thread. You see this as a happy ending, but I see it as two years of cheap, meaningless sex. This line of thinking is so far away from who I am that I will NEVER get it.

 

Signing off.

 

V.

Edited September 2, 2007 by VeeCee

[beancurdturtle]

In one of the final scene, Lisa tells Neil: "this evening all the guys were hitting on me, I was feeling like a goddess. Are you aware you have in your bed the most beautiful women of California" (or similar), To which Neil answers: "Of course, I passed two years making love with all the women in California, to be sure".

I need to quit reading this thread. You see this as a happy ending, but I see it as two years of cheap, meaningless sex. This line of thinking is so far away from who I am that I will NEVER get it.

 

Signing off.

 

V.

That one final scene - narcissism deeply grounded in a self worth based on "conquest" for the dude, and the attention from others for the chick. Pretty much in line with feeling cool because you have a hot car, lots of money, etc.

 

Even when they eventually "get together" it's all about how wonderful each of them perceives themselves to be based on their conquests or the attention of others. How incredibly twisted.

 

There was meaning to the sex for each of them - though the meaning is all effed up. Then they actually believe it brought meaning to their lives and validation to themselves?

 

Strangely dark and disturbing if you ask me.

[Trunk]

My thoughts on center theory (link) re: this. Just taking simple 3 center layout: wisdom, love, power.

 

The different centers have different aesthetics (what they like to do). For an over simplified, on the surface example, the mind likes to play chess and meditate, the lower center wants to fuck and go for a run. They like different sorts of things, and have different agendas.

 

Add to this that the distribution of consciousness amongst the centers varies, as a general configuration for a certain individual, and as that person's moods change. Meaning, also, that a couple of centers might be relatively asleep, while another is 'awake' and employing volition (running the show) mostly by it's own aesthetics and agenda. I think that most people can relate to some degree of that vis-a-vis the three centers. A healthy mature balanced person has more fluency amongst the centers. A healthy well rounded life, likewise.

 

Part of the path of awakening, and just the challenge of maturing as a human being, is for each of the centers not only to awaken, but awaken in relative balance. I'm sure that if you think of a few of the distinct characters in your life, in terms of each of their three centers: awakeness, relative awakeness, whether the centers are communicating with eachother, whether there is a balanced lifestyle that supports all the centers of that person.

 

In patterns of dysfunctional center relationships, one center actively circumvents, blocks other centers, and absconds with the locus of consciousness and volition. To some degree this is just very common, the shifting of center-emphasis depending on the activity. Most people's lower center is not fluently awake, much less Awake.

 

Ok, so, to the pua scene. They've mapped the aesthetics of the instinctual (lower center) female, and play to that. Meanwhile the woman's upper centers are distracted or placated or roll-played so that the lower center aesthetics can worked without her upper-center interfering. After a while her lower center takes over.

 

Pua's would get a lot further if they found an integral way to awaken their own centers, because most of what an afc is, is heart and head mildly awake, and an asleep, unintegrated lower center. The "evil pua's" have over-emphasized the lower center as the home of consciousness and have - to an unbalanced degree - abandoned the upper center aesthetics.

 

Comes down to really basic stuff, that really no one in the pop-Taoist world has worked out (as far as I know). So the pua at least gives the lower center the lifestyle that it instincutally wants, and that makes it happy and brings it online to some degree. But real awakeness and integration?, I don't see it in that community.

 

A common pattern of disorder among spiritual aspirants results from the fact that it's easier to Awaken the upper center/s. Once the upper center/s Awaken it (often) ignites a very strong latent imperative to fully Awaken the whole body (all centers). The problem is that the lower centers typically Awaken later, and it's very, very difficult to find effective training in the process.

 

I think, in traditional coming - of - age rituals, have to do with acknowledging not only the aesthetics of the lower center, but also the consciousness of the lower center: to acknowledge it and wake it up.

 

I'd say that center awakeness is a spectrum... from asleep, to sort of dimly acting, to healthy mundane awake, to really Awake.

 

And, it's probably safe to say, that most people have only one center awake at a time - and that communication amongst centers is generally not fluent. As with most things, when you really get down to taking a close look, it's a mess.

 

The Fourth Way (link) by P.D. Ouspensky (one of Gurdjieff's students) has some information somewhat along these lines. It has a very precision, very harsh perspective on how difficult it is to awaken the centers - and largely on that basis it's a very interesting read.

[Ian]

Thank you, Trunk. As so often after your posts, it makes more sense now.

[lino]

My thoughts on center theory (link) re: this. Just taking simple 3 center layout: wisdom, love, power.

 

The different centers have different aesthetics (what they like to do). For an over simplified, on the surface example, the mind likes to play chess and meditate, the lower center wants to fuck and go for a run. They like different sorts of things, and have different agendas.

 

Add to this that the distribution of consciousness amongst the centers varies, as a general configuration for a certain individual, and as that person's moods change. Meaning, also, that a couple of centers might be relatively asleep, while another is 'awake' and employing volition (running the show) mostly by it's own aesthetics and agenda. I think that most people can relate to some degree of that vis-a-vis the three centers. A healthy mature balanced person has more fluency amongst the centers. A healthy well rounded life, likewise.

 

Part of the path of awakening, and just the challenge of maturing as a human being, is for each of the centers not only to awaken, but awaken in relative balance. I'm sure that if you think of a few of the distinct characters in your life, in terms of each of their three centers: awakeness, relative awakeness, whether the centers are communicating with eachother, whether there is a balanced lifestyle that supports all the centers of that person.

 

In patterns of dysfunctional center relationships, one center actively circumvents, blocks other centers, and absconds with the locus of consciousness and volition. To some degree this is just very common, the shifting of center-emphasis depending on the activity. Most people's lower center is not fluently awake, much less Awake.

 

Ok, so, to the pua scene. They've mapped the aesthetics of the instinctual (lower center) female, and play to that. Meanwhile the woman's upper centers are distracted or placated or roll-played so that the lower center aesthetics can worked without her upper-center interfering. After a while her lower center takes over.

 

Pua's would get a lot further if they found an integral way to awaken their own centers, because most of what an afc is, is heart and head mildly awake, and an asleep, unintegrated lower center. The "evil pua's" have over-emphasized the lower center as the home of consciousness and have - to an unbalanced degree - abandoned the upper center aesthetics.

 

Comes down to really basic stuff, that really no one in the pop-Taoist world has worked out (as far as I know). So the pua at least gives the lower center the lifestyle that it instincutally wants, and that makes it happy and brings it online to some degree. But real awakeness and integration?, I don't see it in that community.

 

A common pattern of disorder among spiritual aspirants results from the fact that it's easier to Awaken the upper center/s. Once the upper center/s Awaken it (often) ignites a very strong latent imperative to fully Awaken the whole body (all centers). The problem is that the lower centers typically Awaken later, and it's very, very difficult to find effective training in the process.

 

I think, in traditional coming - of - age rituals, have to do with acknowledging not only the aesthetics of the lower center, but also the consciousness of the lower center: to acknowledge it and wake it up.

 

I'd say that center awakeness is a spectrum... from asleep, to sort of dimly acting, to healthy mundane awake, to really Awake.

 

And, it's probably safe to say, that most people have only one center awake at a time - and that communication amongst centers is generally not fluent. As with most things, when you really get down to taking a close look, it's a mess.

 

The Fourth Way (link) by P.D. Ouspensky (one of Gurdjieff's students) has some information somewhat along these lines. It has a very precision, very harsh perspective on how difficult it is to awaken the centers - and largely on that basis it's a very interesting read.

 

Where in this scheme does "if the condom doesn't work and the birth control doesn't work either, can my wallet handle it?"

[Pietro]

So, now VeeCee has a picture, along with me Ian and Trunk. Welcome among the people who are not hiding themselves.

 

Hello Cat, sorry if I could not answer your questions before.

 

yes. I see your point. It's a good point. It makes sense to me.

 

And then there is individual psychology, that there are blokes who are handsome and charming and succesful with women, and who need intimacy and emotional support with one person, rather than need a harem.

And there are even blokes who have a low libido. ( taboo subject?)

 

I think you are right the art (PU art) is just a tool, now how do you use it it depends on where you are and where do you want to go deeply. And if there is one thing that Taoism have teached me is that not only we are in different places in life, but we also want to go to different places. The one size-fits all does not seem to be much available in the taoist store.

 

Interestingly it is way more available in the PUA store, since many PUA have grown in our common western-christian dominated world. So the curious thing is that while I absolutely agree with you that there are people who need a harem, people who need just a couple of women, people who need one, people who are happy to be single, or the third with another couple, and in generaly anything you can think off; PUA, when you go out with them, often tend to assume that many people are there looking for the one. It is funny, but many PUA are in their heart quite romantic guys who just look for a girlfriend. They have learned the leasson that staying at home wanking in front of the internet is not helping, and they made one step (actually many steps) forward. They go out, they make workshops to get better, not just in PUA, but in all. They meet people, they learn social skills. Some pick up meditation. Often PUA are more clear on one thing their later aim is to find a girl to have kids with. But until they found that women they will have sex around.

 

Remember that many PUA are quite young. Me too when I was 19 I was a romantic. It took many years to make me the asshole hard rock heart you see now .

 

And I think that what they are doing is correct. At least they are not going to get married to have secure sex. They are learning how to have sex from the field, and then they can decide if and when to marry from a place of strength and not a place of weakness.

 

What about the scenario where you are with someone gorgeous looking, fantastic in bed, wonderfully funny, really nice, but ultimately you feel lonely after the sexual excitement has passed, because you dont love them, they dont love you, it isnt a deep enough connection to stop you feeling like a hungry ghost.

Funny enough this hasn't happened to me from such a long time. Maybe 25 years. Generally I always connect to the universal love I have for everybody, and this helps me make love with anybody, satisfy my need for sex, without feeling drained. Can't speak about the others.

 

How long a life does a person have as a PUA? I know about syle and lisa, and how mystery cracked up when he broke up with his gf.

Yes, both Mystery and Style wanted a gf. But Mystery is a person very young, not very stable, and he cracked up. Style knew everything about how to bring a women to bed, but now he had to learn how to stay with a woman. And they split up after a few months. But I don't know the details.

 

They actually wanted love: after a while the playing got old.

Indeed some people want a gf, some style of PU are more tuned for the one night stand, and as a result some people are unhappy. My style is slower, but it seem that the women I go with seem to be really interested in me.

 

But I would disagree with the second part of your statement. They wanted (also) love before, during and after. When they find no love they go out socialise, and have sex. In this way they have a good time, make friends, and are not sexually frustrated. It didn't "got old" it's just that from the beginning they wanted more. It was a mean to an end.

 

Or would it be that you just switch on the Benny Hill music and off you go like clockwork.

 

If it doesnt get old.. well, in analytical psychology it'd be called a Don Juan complex, and be about the child constantly searching for the mother, in a compulsive repetetive loop.

 

Wouldnt you feel stuck on a merry go round?

Funny you mention this. The more I am in PUA, the less I feel like a child with women, and the more I feel mature, and embodying mature masculinity.

 

What would be the need for a PUA to hit on someones wife? Wouldnt the available women down the road be of equal value? ie Arent all conquests of equal value, if they are physically desirable?

 

I can't speak about the others, but for me I don't go looking for wives. But sometimes wives come looking for me, and I am not always aware that they are married. From when I realised that going with married women was not ok for me, only one time did my soul gave the green light with a married women. But the situation was very unique.

 

Ok, I hope I have answered all your questions. Trunk, I read your post, I couldn't make much of it, but I admit that it was probably my problem, it just went over my head. But other people appreciated it, so maybe one day someone will explain it to me. I hope you found the answers to the questions you asked me before, I too could not understand.

 

Sensually yours,

Pietro

[beancurdturtle]

So, now VeeCee has a picture, along with me Ian and Trunk. Welcome among the people who are not hiding themselves.

Full disclosure:

http://www.beancurdturtle.com/ImageGallery/BeancurdTurtle/

[VeeCee]

Full disclosure:

 

No - full disclosure would be a full body shot sans clothing. I'll stick with the face shot. BTW - my avatar is actually my daughter (just think of it as me only 35 years younger).

 

V.

[Pero]

No - full disclosure would be a full body shot sans clothing. I'll stick with the face shot. BTW - my avatar is actually my daughter (just think of it as me only 35 years younger).

 

V.

 

I see... That explains it, because I thought, wow, she`s almost 50 but looks like she`s 20.

Looks like a beautiful daughter.

Is she single?

[rain]

My thoughts on center theory (link) re: this. Just taking simple 3 center layout: wisdom, love, power.

 

Part of the path of awakening, and just the challenge of maturing as a human being, is for each of the centers not only to awaken, but awaken in relative balance. I'm sure that if you think of a few of the distinct characters in your life, in terms of each of their three centers: awakeness, relative awakeness, whether the centers are communicating with eachother, whether there is a balanced lifestyle that supports all the centers of that person.

 

Ok, so, to the pua scene. They've mapped the aesthetics of the instinctual (lower center) female, and play to that. Meanwhile the woman's upper centers are distracted or placated or roll-played so that the lower center aesthetics can worked without her upper-center interfering. After a while her lower center takes over.

 

Pua's would get a lot further if they found an integral way to awaken their own centers, because most of what an afc is, is heart and head mildly awake, and an asleep, unintegrated lower center. The "evil pua's" have over-emphasized the lower center as the home of consciousness and have - to an unbalanced degree - abandoned the upper center aesthetics.

 

I'd say that center awakeness is a spectrum... from asleep, to sort of dimly acting, to healthy mundane awake, to really Awake.

 

The Fourth Way (link) by P.D. Ouspensky (one of Gurdjieff's students) has some information somewhat along these lines. It has a very precision, very harsh perspective on how difficult it is to awaken the centers - and largely on that basis it's a very interesting read.

 

Wow!

 

I heard you some time ago speak of shen, and my only info on that was my grandmaster telling me I had much of it when we discussed dreams. I looked up your theories but ended up staring at kettlebells and got lost. But now I reacted when you mentioned Ouspensky and Gurdijeff, because this whole dicussion of the PUA made me think of Gurdijeffs reputation with the ladies I think your post above shows real insight.

I have gone through a wonderful couple of years where my chackras have been activated thanks to an extremely gifted martial pua, I have been able to strengthen the process of "going down" in my body as I call it.

I read your link on Yi swallows Qi and kidney breathing, and I must thank you. I know you wrote this some tim ago, and as you say wandering around one seems to stumble across things, and the teacher comes when the student is ready and blabla. But this is in fact for me the missing link at this moment, because it is directly connected to what mantra68 is talking about when he speaks of the magnetism and your divine will.

I dont know where you learned about this shen theory?

Edited September 8, 2007 by rain

[Trunk]

I have been able to strengthen the process of "going down" in my body as I call it.

Well put. Really important.

 

I dont know where you learned about this shen theory?

From Michael Winn, who uses a similar approach but he does it with the five organs (elements). That never made sense, never felt right to me ... I always felt that when he said "kidney shen" that I felt the lower center/s and when he said "heart shen" that I felt the heart center, and that the rest of the organ shen (lungs liver spleen) I could somewhat connect to in terms of Chinese medical energetics, but not as consciousnesses. That's my feelings of my own body. (Later edit: I freely admit that it's possible that the organ shen exist, that's just not what I've found in my own body thus far.)

 

Gurdjieff and Ouspensky seem to be at least somewhat on the same page as what I feel in my body. They sometimes use the phrase "three-brained being", or something like that. There are ultimately more centers (like in the Hindu and Tibetan systems) but three is a good place to start, most easily felt.

 

The topic came up within the community in connection with, of course, the sexual practices. That the upper center would boss around the energies of the lower center, really without the agreement (or harmony) of the lower center - and that, after some years of this, the lower center would launch a major rebellion.

 

Pietro is doing a good job of showing the decent-human version of pua, and other points along that line - I know only a very little about that community. I knew there was a "shen" angle on it, but had to really chew on it for a while before I could write that previous post.

 

Glad my meanderings are occasionally helpful.

[三江源]

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Edited March 26, 2015 by 三江源

[beancurdturtle]

Thank you, Trunk. As so often after your posts, it makes more sense now.

Ditto!

[VeeCee]

I see... That explains it, because I thought, wow, she`s almost 50 but looks like she`s 20.

Looks like a beautiful daughter.

Is she single?

 

Yes - and she just turned 13 this week!

[Pietro]

Yes - and she just turned 13 this week!

Oops.

And that's where taoist energetic lovemaking, with no touching at all, a tent between the two people and several witness comes into play.

 

Trunk, don't feel bad if I could not follow you in your explenation. I just have some problems where descriptions incorporates terms like lower and higher. For example, I understand the term lower tan tien, and higher tan tien. But I see it strictly from a physical POV, and not at all from a spiritual -more near the absolute, etc- pov.

 

Cat, howcome, I feel that in your response there is a bit of an agenda? As if you feel that yes, all this Pick up is nice and merry, but the real work is in monogamy? Am I being over reading here, or am I right? What about those people whose ming is to develop a poligamour relationship? What's the next challenge for them?

 

Because for me the next challenge I see, is to develop a network of friendhips, among people I love. In short to further develop my harem into a consistent unit, of women that not only love and desire me (and viceversa), but also respect and know each other. In clarity, light, desire, and transformation.

 

No - full disclosure would be a full body shot sans clothing.

beancurdturtle: this is both an invitation and a test, if I ever saw one.

[Pero]

Yes - and she just turned 13 this week!

 

Crap, how bad does my math suck, I calculated she was 23!

I guess she`s a couple of years too young for me then.

Happy birthday to your daughter.

 

Oops.

And that's where taoist energetic lovemaking, with no touching at all, a tent between the two people and several witness comes into play.

 

What? I`m a little confused to what you mean here?

 

Well, I`m going to watch the Slovenia - Turkey game second half now. We`re leading by 2 at half time, although I heard we sucked.