Two simple questions: Earth = yin? and What exactly is Personal Energy

[4bsolute]

#1 Is the earth itself we live on considered to be yin in total nature?

 

#2 How can we understand Personal Energy?

 

What is Personal Energy? The mishmash we have gathered as experience from a lower point of view, soul point of view? And: Is the Personal Energy always considered to be not very high in nature, does it always stay rather low or can it be raised higher and higher? Is the actual core principle of Qigong and Tai Chi to mix ones personal energy with the Earth and Higher Forces? Do we at some point of spiritual evolution dissolve totally with higher Forces?

 

#2.1 is Generational Energy part of Personal Energy?

 

 

Thank you.

Edited July 8, 2014 by 4bsolute

[Daeluin]

1: Nothing is absolute. At any level, yin contains yang and yang contains yin. Relative to spirit, and non-physically manifested energies, the material realm is yin. But still contains yang. Indeed much of what animates us may be the spiritual (yang in this context), woven within the material form.

 

Remember too - we live on the edge of the earth, between earth and "heaven" - the earth is receptive to all manner of celestial radiations that it absorbs and reflect, and many end up interacting in our atmosphere.

 

2: I'm not familiar with these specific terms. Maybe they're a different translation of terms I'm familiar with, but I'd rather not make assumptions.

[goldisheavy]

#1 Is the earth itself we live on considered to be yin in total nature?

 

#2 How can we understand Personal Energy?

 

There are many workable ways of understanding it. Different ways of understanding have advantages and disadvantages relative to each personal situation. In general, the more abstract your understanding, the more powerful and advantegous it is from the ultimate point of view. But the drawback to this, is that thinking too abstractly seems too remote and too fantastical or improbable or too otherworldly to many people. Many people have very dense minds, and their minds absolutely demand substance, something they can feel or touch. So if you explain a powerful and abstract point of view to someone with a dense mind, they will reject it out of hand, since there is nothing "of this Earth" in it, so to speak. It's too airy/ethereal to them to accept and to productively work with.

 

So asking metaphysical questions and then expecting one unified solid answer is not realistic because every person exists at a different level of being and we all have unique perspectives. Obviously we overlap enough to meet here, but this overlap doesn't tell you a whole lot about those areas where we do not overlap.

 

What is Personal Energy? The mishmash we have gathered as experience from a lower point of view, soul point of view?

 

Experience cannot be gathered. The mind isn't a bottle or a suitcase. However, experiences can be remembered, and then deeper than the experiences themselves, instincts can be engrained, which is a kind of memory that isn't tied to a specific experience, but is more a generalized template that determines how you are most likely to respond to the various situations.

 

This template is durable, but it can change too. Sometimes it drifts with the times, and at other times people change their instinctual templates on purpose as part of their spiritual path (mind training).

 

Besides memories there is something that can be called commitment. It is the manner in which you are willing to meet the world and yourself in the world (and conversely it's also a manner in which you are unwilling to do the same).

 

And: Is the Personal Energy always considered to be not very high in nature, does it always stay rather low or can it be raised higher and higher?

 

What is considerered personal and what is considered natural arises from a mental matrix that is in truth neither personal nor natural (by nature here I take it you mean forests, rivers, clouds, skies, animals, and so on).

 

So strictly speaking, nothing is natural in a way that's fixed and absolute. This is how some adepts can demonstrate powers that seem to bend nature. That's because nature doesn't belong to itself. And the person doesn't belong to the person. Instead both nature and person belong to the mind, and the mind apportions the powers to each.

 

So from one perspective, asking about how natural energies compare to personal ones is nonsense, since they don't have a fixed state. From a different perspective, you need to evaluate this for yourself. Before you do that, you need some methodology too, so that your measurements remain consistent. For most people consistency of some sort is a prerequisite for trustworthiness. So because how the natural/personal energies are apportioned depends on your own perspective, you need to come to realize this for yourself if you want a non-abstract, concrete answer that is specific to your life.

 

Of course you can get other people to help you, but whatever you end up doing, it's still you doing it. So if you are going around getting input from people, that's your idea of how to establish validity of information. That's one of the ways you might be apportionining personal and natural energies. By talking to other people and taking them seriously you give them more energy, and by extension, you give nature more energy too, because nature is nothing other than a common ground between people. So how you relate to nature will depend on how you relate to other people.

 

Is the actual core principle of Qigong and Tai Chi to mix ones personal energy with the Earth and Higher Forces?

 

They're already mixed. Any line you draw between the two will be arbitrary and imaginary.

 

Do we at some point of spiritual evolution dissolve totally with higher Forces?

 

If you like. You can evolve in many ways. You've got options.

 

But whatever you do, all phenomenal appearances occur in the mind. That's something that never changes. A subjective experience of a worm crawling through the Earth, and the subjective experience of a God, they all have this in common: mind.

 

#2.1 is Generational Energy part of Personal Energy?

 

I'm not sure what you mean here, but if you mean your parents' energy, then it can be said as much as your parents give birth to you, you also give birth to your parents.

Edited July 10, 2014 by goldisheavy

[flowing hands]

The earth is yang the sky is yin the sun is yang the moon at full moon is yang the moon at new moon is yin. Although all of these contain their opposite.

[Marblehead]

I have always thought it as Heaven being Yin and Earth being Yang. Of course, I am oftentimes confused.

[Andrei]

All books about taoism I ever read said that Heaven is Yang and Earth is Yin. I hope Marblehead wanted to say the same thing but he switched them by mistake.

[Marblehead]

All books about taoism I ever read said that Heaven is Yang and Earth is Yin. I hope Marblehead wanted to say the same thing but he switched them by mistake.

I wish I could say that, yeah, that's what I meant. But I would be lying.

 

My reasoning: The Earth is a place of great activity. Always stuff going on effecting us directly. Heaven, when viewed from Earth seems to be peaceful and non-changing. A place of rest.

 

My understanding: Yin and Yang are polarities of Chi. Yang is the positive, the outgoing of energy; Yin is the negative, the return. Return to what? To the heavens, the next step being Tao as in:

 

Man follows Earth, Earth follows Heaven, and Heaven follows Tao. That would be from Yang, activity, to Yin, rest.

 

See how confused I can get?

[Ish]

For me, earth is yin, heaven is yang.

 

Earth has that heavier, cloudy, gravitational, pulling inwards quality. In the human body the lower body corresponds to earth, yin energy.

 

Heaven is light, clear, expansive, radiant. In the human body the upper body corresponds to heaven and yang energy.

 

 

 

As for the second question in OP.

 

Yes we have "personal energy" that is different for each person. We all start at different points. From my view the whole point of cultivation is to purify our personal energy towards Nature. I say "personal energy" because i feel it is both personal and impersonal. It is our own to cultivate - but behind it, it is intimately related to the energy of the universe.

[GrandmasterP]

I've no evidence for this but like to think that 'our' cultivation energy is the same thing as universal energy.

It's all Qi.

BUT

Our minuscule fraction of Qi is minuscule only because we're not equipped to deal with the big picture.

"Potentially, each cultivator's Qi is the infinite Qi, non different as we're all part of the same 'big picture' it all being Tao.

We can touch the edge of that infinite sublime indifference now and again.

IMO those moments are what some call 'enlightenment'.

( Mistakenly IMO).

I reckon those times are non- permanent fleeting insights into that mysterious 'big picture' that cannot be communicated by words.

Edited July 10, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Marblehead]

For me, earth is yin, heaven is yang.

 

Earth has that heavier, cloudy, gravitational, pulling inwards quality. In the human body the lower body corresponds to earth, yin energy.

 

Heaven is light, clear, expansive, radiant. In the human body the upper body corresponds to heaven and yang energy.

Hi Ish,

 

Thanks for the perspective. Words are what they are, words. They, of course, are not that which is being spoken of. As long as we can rationalize, if only to ourself, our understanding of the concepts then it is all good. (Hehehe. Except when we are wrong but we can deal with that later. Or not.)

[Daeluin]

My reasoning: The Earth is a place of great activity. Always stuff going on effecting us directly. Heaven, when viewed from Earth seems to be peaceful and non-changing. A place of rest.

 

My understanding: Yin and Yang are polarities of Chi. Yang is the positive, the outgoing of energy; Yin is the negative, the return. Return to what? To the heavens, the next step being Tao as in:

 

Man follows Earth, Earth follows Heaven, and Heaven follows Tao. That would be from Yang, activity, to Yin, rest.

 

See how confused I can get?

 

Where we live is between heaven and earth. Both principles of heaven and earth can be seen.

 

When activity is put in terms of stillness, activity tends to have a conditioning quality, and is yin, while the purity is yang.

 

When activity is put in terms of a cycle of life and death, yang is the beginning instigating force of the cycle that merges with the invitation of yin towards conditioning.

 

When activity is put in terms of forcefulness or gentleness, yang is forcefulness, stemming from it's firm purity, as opposed to the weaker but very pliable and receptive yin.

 

In a cycle, when yang is full and the yin enters, it wraps around and weaves within the yang where-ever there is an opening left from the development of the waxing phase of yang.

 

Return to what? To the center. On earth the center is of one's self as opposed to others. Yet earth follows the design of heaven as well, which is not so attached to self and other, but flows between phases without obstruction, like light changing in a prism. At the center of these phases changes is the unchanging oneness of tao.

 

I like that you understand it the other way round though, so please do what works for you!

[Andrei]

Yang means light side of a hill, yin means the shaded side of the same hill. By this they extrapolate saying Yang is light and Yin is dark. Heaven has stars and suns that produces light, earth has only darkness. We are here on the lighted side of the earth, we as human beings living in the yang world lighted by the sun. Day is yang and night is yin, because day has light and night has shadow. And so on, if you go into a cave you go into the yin world of the earth. A cavity is yin because it provides shadow, and so is the womb of a woman, which makes a woman the yin side of the manifested human energy. And so on. Of course there is duality everywhere you look but the starting point has to be set universally so that everybody has the same reference. In Yi jing Heaven has the three yang lines and earth has the three yin lines. But if you flip the polarity everything else is flipped.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Andrei

[flowing hands]

When I say Earth is yang I mean if you view it from outer space (yin) all manifests are yang and the space between is yin. But on Earth, the Earth gives life so is yin and is given power and warmth by yang sun. Because all things are made from both yin and yang they can be viewed as either, from differing perspectives. For instance men are generally yang but very often they are yin and visa versa.

[Marblehead]

I like that you understand it the other way round though, so please do what works for you!

Yeah, that's the thing, isn't it? What works for us, the individual. The end result is the same, an individual who hold to the Three Treasures of Lao Tzu. I have even modified those. For me they are: Compassion, Frugality, and Humility.

 

Actually, I don't put as much emphasis on Yin and Yang as most do. Chi, the energy, is what makes things go.

 

For me there is no right or wrong here. If it helps us be a better person then it is good. Simple as that.

[Ya Mu]

...

Actually, I don't put as much emphasis on Yin and Yang as most do. Chi, the energy, is what makes things go.

...

Me neither. We use what works when appropriate. No need to limit ourselves.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

#2 How can we understand Personal Energy?

 

What is Personal Energy? The mishmash we have gathered as experience from a lower point of view, soul point of view? And: Is the Personal Energy always considered to be not very high in nature, does it always stay rather low or can it be raised higher and higher? Is the actual core principle of Qigong and Tai Chi to mix ones personal energy with the Earth and Higher Forces? Do we at some point of spiritual evolution dissolve totally with higher Forces?

 

This could also be about as varied in understanding, based on perspective, as Yin vs. Yang. Trying to find absolutes, in Taoism, is always a slippery thing to grasp.

 

My knowledge of this is not as refined as many others here, but some things to consider:

 

It may not be the "amount" of energy that one has, but the frequency or purity of it that makes the difference.

Someone may have copious amounts of energy running through their system but if it is not tempered with wisdom (experience, patience, et all), it might as well be a black hole of energy as it can deplete them by causing negative emotions which feed off the subtler energies which connect one to higher energies. So one's capacity to manage their energy might be alluded to someone who has lots of money but no happiness. They may be successful in their endeavors but end up being controlled by them and further at a loss than the person who has very little personal money but is surrounded by a community that supports and provides all that is needed. If one were to forget the community and try to squander everything, they would lose their connection to the community and be "so poor all he has is money."

 

Sorry if that was too vague and tangential, but it does apply to "personal energy."

 

"Is the actual core principle of Qigong and Tai Chi to mix ones personal energy with the Earth and Higher Forces?"

 

This is where, as some stated earlier, it may be a wrong avenue to try and lineate the process.

Yes, qigong and (good) taiji do mix one's personal energy with Earthly and Heavenly energy, but there is more than just that, such as cleansing oneself of stagnant energy, conditioning the mind's intent, rooting the self in true nature. It is a health practice, it is a spiritual practice, and it can be either or both of these things while still being "qigong" and "taiji."

 

It's also difficult to say when you are mixing your energy with these other energies, or simply learning from them and conditioning your own energy. Like when you spend time with a wise elder - you don't necessarily take on their wisdom, but you can condition your wisdom by being with them. Wisdom is not owned by anyone, but we can be open to more of it by developing more of it.

 

I'll leave it at that for now.

[dawei]

For me, earth is yin, heaven is yang.

 

Earth has that heavier, cloudy, gravitational, pulling inwards quality. In the human body the lower body corresponds to earth, yin energy.

 

Heaven is light, clear, expansive, radiant. In the human body the upper body corresponds to heaven and yang energy.

 

By these definitions you give above... then you've set them backwards... according to heavy and light, they should be:

 

 

Earth = heavy = YANG

 

Heaven = light = YIN

 

The ancient cosmologies which talk about the separation of energy in the beginning essentially say:

 

That which is light rises as Heaven; That which is heavy sinks as Earth...

 

It is curious that Heaven arises before Earth... why this priority?

 

 

But it is always a matter of relativity between what is being compared.

 

Earth is Yin compared to Sun as Yang.

[4bsolute]

Experience cannot be gathered. The mind isn't a bottle or a suitcase.

 

We do not really want to discuss this here, do we?

 

If so I would start and state that experience very well can be gathered. We learn through our actions. Basic muscle memory. The mind then stores of what we have put together and have experienced.

 

To say experience cannot be gathered would be as to say the term "to experience" does not exist. Experience in itself means gathering of something. Even just witnessing it is a gathering. Gathering also can but not necessarily means holding on to it.

 

But I know where you are coming from. Everything is out there waiting for us to remember. But we can only remember what has once being experienced. Correct? So basicly tap into the experience of another being. To re-experience that experience. But experience can not be given to someone, just the basic tools to experience. But (for my current understanding) never experience itself.

 

Or is there a tangible tool that perfectly lets you experience what I am witnessing right now with all of my limited Self? Sure there might be possibilities, but do you have actual experience?

Edited July 12, 2014 by 4bsolute

[soaring crane]

contraction/expansion

tension/release

receptive/resistant

micro/macro

transformation

Edited July 13, 2014 by soaring crane

[Ish]

By these definitions you give above... then you've set them backwards... according to heavy and light, they should be:

 

 

Earth = heavy = YANG

 

Heaven = light = YIN

 

I don't get what you mean, can you clarify?

[Apech]

Earth is yin and heaven is yang. But earth is not the ordinary physical world it more like 'mother earth' a kind of dark inner nurturing force which allows things to exist. The observable physical world is part of the middle human world. Although Heaven is light and yang, this is viewed as 'hard' as distinct to Earth yin/soft and yielding. Heaven is a realm of pure yang in which there is no room for vagueness and is what imparts order onto everything. Images and pure forms arise from heaven while things with substantial existence arise from Earth. Actually they are just poles of the same process so the 10k things draw their form from yang/heaven and their substance from yin/earth. Nothing can exist without both and arise from the interaction of these two 'gates', the dragon gate and the moon gate.

[Marblehead]

Oh!, all the beautiful dualities and their polarities.

 

I liked Dawei's paradox of Earth being Yin when compared to this but being Yang when compared to that.

[Apech]

Oh!, all the beautiful dualities and their polarities.

 

I liked Dawei's paradox of Earth being Yin when compared to this but being Yang when compared to that.

 

 

Yes of course .. or you could say the Sun is primarily yang but in that it is burning up hydrogen inside it is becoming steadily yin ... by polarities I mean that you can't really have one without the other. As soon as you identify a thing as yang then it can be yin relative to something else.

[Marblehead]

Yes of course .. or you could say the Sun is primarily yang but in that it is burning up hydrogen inside it is becoming steadily yin ... by polarities I mean that you can't really have one without the other. As soon as you identify a thing as yang then it can be yin relative to something else.

Exactly. Without Yin there is no Chi. Without Yang there is no Chi. Without Chi there is no ...

Edited July 12, 2014 by Marblehead

[Apech]

Exactly. Without Yin there is no Chi. Without Yang there is no Chi. Without Chi there is no ...

 

I see chi less as a kind of fuel, like gasoline for your car and more a product of the interaction of yin and yang (or as you point out yin and yang are a product of presence of chi), so yes no one without the other.