Two simple questions: Earth = yin? and What exactly is Personal Energy

[Marblehead]

"We should" ? Tsk tsk

Well, apparently he should but maybe I shouldn't?

[Stosh]

Theres no justification to say either. , and there is sound reason to avoid saying them both

[GrandmasterP]

"We should" ? Tsk tsk

It was only "IMO".

I've not drafted any laws.

Could would have been ( and now is) possibly better though....

 

IMO and as an opinion NOT a precept.

We could maybe all cultivate, at least some of the time; " for the benefit of others".

Edited July 16, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Stosh]

It was only "IMO".

I've not drafted any laws.

Could would have been ( and now is) possibly better though....

 

IMO and as an opinion NOT a precept.

We could maybe all cultivate, at least some of the time; " for the benefit of others".

Well sir we equally 'could' all not cultivate for the benefit of others.

In fact , I suspect that one always cultivates or does anything , to fulfill what it is that they themselves want induced.

The reason being that Its just not possible to do with intent , that which we do not intend.

If someone wants to do something for me theres a certain car that needs a good waxing., but ahh , I see no hands volunteering to wax my car for me , and why is that ? maybe they dont feel that theres anything in it for them?

 

Of course, a 'should' is always an opinion, the tao laughs at all that should be.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Stosh

[manitou]

If we didn't cultivate, it would merely be Tao Ching

[dawei]

I don't get what you mean, can you clarify?

 

Anicent Cosmological unfolding.

 

 

Earth = heavy = YANG

 

Heaven = light = YIN

 

 

 

Which rises and which sinks?

 

Heavy sinks...

 

Light rises...

 

 

As the Huainanzi said, my translation:

 

Prior to the Opening of the Universe

and pouring down of all life forms

This is called the Primal Illumination.

Dao awoke out of this boundless void.

The boundless void gave rise to the cosmos;

The cosmos gave rise to [Primal] Qi.

[Primal] Qi spread as a shoreline.

That which was clear and bright formed into Heaven;

That which was heavy and impure formed into Earth.

It is easy for that which is clear and bright to uniformly gather [as the sky]

But difficult for the heavy and impure to solidify [as earth and matter].

Therefore Heaven was completed first, and Earth afterwards.

The coiling essences of Heaven and Earth formed into Yin Yang.

[thetaoiseasy]

Dawei,

 

Are your color highlights suggesting that the word order in the translation indicates the respective yin/yang correlation?

 

Because in Chinese, heaven is always said before earth, in the phrase "Tien Di." And Yin is always said before Yang, in the phrase "Yin Yang." It is just a manner of speaking, not indication of order in this context.

 

If what i suggested is not your intent, and you are a native speaker, please forgive my misinterpretation. I just read your explanation twice in this thread, but still do not comprehend.

 

________________________________

 

From my perspective,

 

In the I Ching,

 

Yang is a single unbroken bar, ____

 

An unbroken bar resonates at around the third eye, in the upper body.

 

Yin is a single broken bar, __ __

 

A broken bar resonates around the hui-yin, in the lower body.

 

The ancients discovered all the trigrams by energetic correspondence in their own body.

 

Heaven consists of three unbroken yang bars:

 

Earth consists of three broken yin bars:

 

 

 

Heaven is yang.

Earth is yin.

[Marblehead]

Heaven is yang.

Earth is yin.

Hehehe. Very good arguement. I am of Dawei's understanding so I can't like your post too because if I did I would be saying that I like and therefore agree with you both which would indicate that I am totally confused. (I may be but will never confess it.)

 

But I did enjoy reading your counter post.

[Stosh]

If we didn't cultivate, it would merely be Tao Ching

I suppose it might, but then, what is it that one is cultivating? is it a yin style or yang style behavior pattern? Is a person supposed to , ( should) be inspired by the light side of a mountain or the shadow of a negative space behind the mountain?

Cutivate perhaps that which they already credit themselves to be? or is it ..whatever they are not.

 

And what would a useless tree be regarding either of those?

Edited July 16, 2014 by Stosh

[goldisheavy]

Darling, I totally invite you to expand upon this. Is there something you see in my unconscious that I'm missing? It's entirely possible, and I welcome your viewpoint.

 

Pumpkin, consider this. If your mind was blank at birth, free of bias, desire, expectations, on what basis would it be able to interpret the first experience?

[dawei]

Dawei,

 

Are your color highlights suggesting that the word order in the translation indicates the respective yin/yang correlation?

 

I am not appealing to word order but the entire cosmological picture.

 

It may be more appropriate to say that originally speaking, the formation process of Heaven and Earth predate Yin and Yang... and what eventually forms is akin to Yi and Yang energies.

 

Here is how I view it but I am happy to be wrong:

 

When the undifferentiated vibrates to a point of separating, it is the energy which is both process and substance... Qi... that which is 'light' rose (Heaven) and that which was 'heavy' sank (Earth). The lightness was cool and formed space; The darkness collected into hot cores.

 

These in turn give rise to the 10,000 things as we know them. In this sense, Yin and Yang are relative forms/energies; everything possesses both.

 

The earth, at its core still possess that original Yang. Its surface has come to be more relatively Yin. Compared to the Sky, earth is more Yang; compared to the Sun, it is more Yin.

 

In ancient astrology, Yang is UP and Yin is DOWN... Thus, Heaven is Yang and Earth is Yin.

 

Because the body is considered a microcosm of heaven and earth (nature), in Alchemy you find the same assignment: The head is upper and is considered Heaven/Yang, and the stomach is lower and is considered Earth/Yin (cauldron).

 

Also seen as: Heaven/Upper is round and earth/Lower is flat: The human head/Upper is Heaven and the feet/Lower are Earth.

 

I think in the I Ching:

- Qian is a creative principle (initiates) and a symbol of a rising sun / energy / light. This all starts from ABOVE; Assigned as Heaven / Yang; Thus the YANG energy which radiates from the heavens.

- Kun is a receptive or passive principle and a symbol of the submissive earth; Man is submissive to Heaven. Thus the YIN energy which covers the earth.

[manitou]

I suppose it might, but then, what is it that one is cultivating? is it a yin style or yang style behavior pattern? Is a person supposed to , ( should) be inspired by the light side of a mountain or the shadow of a negative space behind the mountain?

Cutivate perhaps that which they already credit themselves to be? or is it ..whatever they are not.

 

And what would a useless tree be regarding either of those?

 

 

It's a removal process, not an adding process. That's the cultivation I speak of.

 

Have you met a useless tree? Seems to me they're always giving - if nothing else, oxygen.

[Ya Mu]

I propose that the terms Yin & Yang are totally worthless & useless. IMO the words have brought about more confusion than clarity. IMO they should be banned from use.

Heaven & Earth, however, are tangible - anyone can get to where they feel the difference in the energetics. Yang within yin within yang within..it will drive a person nuts and accomplishes nothing to contemplate the inherent truth in either one as they will always have a bit of the other.

 

And Stosh, bring your car over - I'll wax the Yin side at high noon and the yang side at midnight.

[Enishi]

For me thus far the difference between Yin and Yang feels like that of Potential vs Actualization, both of which can either combine or be transmuted into one another. It's interesting to make further observations about them, but not as fruitful as experiencing the process as it unfolds. Since they're not "objects" one can't really apply a reductionist approach of trying to analyze them down into smaller and smaller pieces.

[Stosh]

It's a removal process, not an adding process. That's the cultivation I speak of.

 

Have you met a useless tree? Seems to me they're always giving - if nothing else, oxygen.

Sweetie , I believe its a zero sum equasion as far as O2 goes , what they and all plants exhale during the day they inhale at night, this is why heavily vegetated ponds have what are called night kills .

 

Nah I just changed my mind , yes the worlds a better place for having them anyway , but then also the consumers of the O2 make the CO2 available for the plants , a win win scenario?

Edited July 17, 2014 by Stosh

[4bsolute]

In the big scheme of things you're spot on but at our level on this side of life time's experientially linear. Hence, we know when it's dinner time. That's handy. OK time isn't 'really' linear same as the earth isn't flat but it seems to be flat from wherever we're standing. So my spirit chum ( 'died' 1814) inhabits a timeless place but for convenience when dealing with this side of life then she's some lass who 'died' in 1814.

 

oh the earth is 2D, 3D.. whatever D you can process. For us humans, at one point it turned 3D. And they wanted to hang the good man