Texts for preliminary neidan study

[pickledpadma]

Internal chinese alchemy is something that really interests me, but I don't know where to begin. What I do know is a haphazard array of ideas an concepts that I've strung together on the thread of my personal experience.

 

I began with the secret of the golden flower text, and I feel like it is a very useful text, but I was looking to find some complimentary texts to adjunct my learning and fortify my knowledge of the concepts used.

 

I'm hoping some of you guys might have some useful insights or leads for me.

Thanks.

[joeblast]

YMAA Embryonic Breathing

Anapana Chi Conversations, Tao & Longevity Nan Huai Chin

[dawei]

I'm hoping some of you guys might have some useful insights or leads for me.

 

See some of the links provided here and if it produces more specific questions or direction for this thread:

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/35522-cultivation-of-the-mind/

[zerostao]

i have the secret of golden flower and it was a good read, but i recommend putting it back on the shelf and not using it as a practice guide, same can be said for Taoist yoga by charles luk.

joeblasts recommendation of embryonic breathing by ymaa , yeah, and there are also other ymaa books that are very useful.

written in a simple easy to understand language.

 

ymaa.com

[joeblast]

the translations of ancient texts, especially in the YMAA EB book, are superlative. extremely simple, beautifully conceived. worth the price of the book even without dr yang's commentary.

 

there's also plenty of good stuff around the forum here.

 

master the breath and in the ensuing neural calmness...

[doc benway]

Internal chinese alchemy is something that really interests me, but I don't know where to begin. What I do know is a haphazard array of ideas an concepts that I've strung together on the thread of my personal experience.

 

I began with the secret of the golden flower text, and I feel like it is a very useful text, but I was looking to find some complimentary texts to adjunct my learning and fortify my knowledge of the concepts used.

 

I'm hoping some of you guys might have some useful insights or leads for me.

Thanks.

 

If you are serious, do anything you can to find a credible teacher.

If books are the only option, Nei Yeh is a great resource although quite cryptic (as are all alchemy writings - hence the need for a master).

I also think that Bruce Frantzis' two books on Daoist meditation are two of the most practical and accessible books for someone who has no access to direct instruction. My training was in a very different method but I read through Bruce's books and incorporated his methods into my practice for a while and it is VERY powerful stuff.

Personally, I don't like Dr. Yang's book very much for practical use.

Lots of interesting translations but better as a reference than a guide, IMO.

[gendao]

You will probably need to spend the good part of a decade clearing out enough emotional/energetic blockages and stretching your muscles/tendons out enough to sit in full lotus properly first...before you can really begin "classical" Chinese alchemy.

 

Otherwise, it will be like trying to fill up a bucket with a stiff, old garden hose clogged with mud...

Edited July 11, 2014 by vortex

[Vitalii]

Stephen Eskildsen: The Teachings and Practices of the Early Quanzhen Taoist Masters

 

Louis Komjathy: Cultivating Perfection: Mysticism and Self-transformation in Early Quanzhen Daoism

 

Thomas Cleary:

The Taoist Classics, Volume 1: The Collected Translations

 

The Taoist Classics, Volume 2: The Collected Translations

 

The Taoist Classics: The Collected Translations of Thomas Cleary, Vol. 3

[Vitalii]

 

Internal chinese alchemy is something that really interests me, but I don't know where to begin. What I do know is a haphazard array of ideas an concepts that I've strung together on the thread of my personal experience.

I began with the secret of the golden flower text, and I feel like it is a very useful text, but I was looking to find some complimentary texts to adjunct my learning and fortify my knowledge of the concepts used.

I'm hoping some of you guys might have some useful insights or leads for me.
Thanks.

 

You are right, the study of classical texts is very important in the study of Daoism. It was also emphasized in the treatise of Wang Chongyang "Shiwulun", where "the study of texts" is one of the statements mentioned.

Here is a fragment of my commentary to this statement:

"Before reading the sacred text, one should cleanse his heart from the worldly cares and to be like an empty vessel capable to perceive what it is being poured. The texts should not be read in a hurry and in haste; otherwise many of the truths and innermost moments will be missed. You need to study the text carefully and consciously as if you personally get these instructions from the teacher. After reading the text - meditate on read, because it contains a bottomless wisdom, which you will may have to comprehend during the whole life.

Read, ponder, analyze - but do not forget that apart from this, it is necessary to get a detailed explanation of the read from your Master. Despite the fact that the classical texts are sacred, as long as they are read by those students whose hearts are still not free from ignorance to the end, but the spirit of Shen does not have the pure clarity, even a correct instruction may be misunderstood. And given the fact that many treatises use symbolic language and intentionally miss many of the practical nuances that require the transmission from heart to heart, the mistake of understanding is not so difficult or rare.

Thus, errors can accumulate even when reading sacred texts, but the risk of this is upon the person oneself. If this continues for a long time, misconceptions rooted and true words of are no longer able to penetrate into your heart-mind, the spirit of Shen gets clouded, and the circulation of Qi is broken. Not realizing it, people may just keep moving away from Dao, more and more bogged down in the ocean of reincarnation.

Therefore, it must be remembered that the study of texts can only be truly effective when there is an alive Master, who on the one hand is able to point out any misunderstandings and wrongly interpreted parts of the treatise, and on the other hand, - to explain parts difficult for understanding".

[pickledpadma]

You all are providing many useful things for me and I am glad to recieve your insights.

 

I have studied in depth, other traditions, all without a teacher. To me, an open heart and open mind is all one needs. That, and some experiences, like that of sunyata and integrating that entirely into life.

 

I kind of find my own way. Call it past karma or very powerful intuition. Maybe I'll talk about my experiences some time.

 

I do have some experiences directly related to the practiced I produced for myself when reading the secret of the golden flower and I was wondering what some of you might think.

 

I don't want to explain my practice, but just the results. I see a purple cloud in my vision and my body feels tingly and cool. I eventually start to feel like I am sweating a very cool cool sweat. It feels like it's purifying me, but I don't know exactly what this is. Does anybody know?

[Miles]

 

I also think that Bruce Frantzis' two books on Daoist meditation are two of the most practical and accessible books for someone who has no access to direct instruction.

Taoist Yoga by Bruce Frantzis

Its good.

[Vitalii]

I don't want to explain my practice, but just the results. I see a purple cloud in my vision and my body feels tingly and cool. I eventually start to feel like I am sweating a very cool cool sweat. It feels like it's purifying me, but I don't know exactly what this is. Does anybody know?

 

it doesn't matter what you saw, it can be your mind playing.

You need to understand that practicing without a teacher it is a bad idea because you can collect misconceptions.

[pickledpadma]

 

it doesn't matter what you saw, it can be your mind playing.

You need to understand that practicing without a teacher it is a bad idea because you can collect misconceptions.

 

Isn't the mind always playing?

 

I'd like a teacher If I could find a good one.

[Aetherous]

Did you see the purple cloud like a light behind your eyelids? Or did you see it like a vision in your imagination? The former is a common practice phenomenon.

[pickledpadma]

Did you see the purple cloud like a light behind your eyelids? Or did you see it like a vision in your imagination? The former is a common practice phenomenon.

Like an actual imprint on my vision. What causes it? What does it mean?

[GreytoWhite]

It's nothing to give your attention usually sensations and minor hallucinations are best ignored. This is why you need a teacher, a lot of times these things mean nothing and are like mile markers along the highway - good if you're broke down but otherwise just little signs as you travel.

[pickledpadma]

It's nothing to give your attention usually sensations and minor hallucinations are best ignored. This is why you need a teacher, a lot of times these things mean nothing and are like mile markers along the highway - good if you're broke down but otherwise just little signs as you travel.

Absolutely, I just want to know if this is a shared experience and if it's a marker of something in particular.

[Andrei]

Yes it is a good sign, the alchemical process started, you see the shen refined from qi in the middle dantian which is refined from jing in the lower dantian. In time will became brighter, like a white cloud, you may see white stars or white snow. After a while the whote spots will concentrate in the center like a white moon which will pulsate, and which will became brighter during full moon. This is the immortality embrio, it is the beginning of Da Dao, the Great Way.

 

Here is an important alchemical text:

 

http://www.charleschace.com/pdfs/Xing_Ming_Gui_Zhi-BurtonRose.pdf

[Vitalii]

Absolutely, I just want to know if this is a shared experience and if it's a marker of something in particular.

 

sorry, but it does not mean anything and it has no relation to the alchemical process

[Aetherous]

Like an actual imprint on my vision. What causes it? What does it mean?

 

In some forms of Buddhism it's called "nimitta", which is basically like seeing your mind become still...in other forms of Buddhism they talk of the kati channel, and seeing that light has something to do with it. It's regarded as a good sign in Taoism, too...it's "the light of vitality" but there are various stages of it. Basically, most people if not all don't understand the Taoist alchemy teachings on this, so you're not going to get a complete answer. To me, in the easiest way to understand it, is that it means you're in a relaxed state during the time you're seeing it. Scientifically, it might have to do with the optic nerve.

[doc benway]

I don't want to explain my practice, but just the results. I see a purple cloud in my vision and my body feels tingly and cool. I eventually start to feel like I am sweating a very cool cool sweat. It feels like it's purifying me, but I don't know exactly what this is. Does anybody know?

 

Is this a result?

 

Each of us walks a solitary path.

Comparing notes is as easily misleading as supportive.

As you open more and become more sensitive and aware, you will see much, much more both internally and externally.

Who's to say "exactly what this is"?

It is Great Mystery!

Enjoy the path.

[pickledpadma]

 

Is this a result?

 

Each of us walks a solitary path.

Comparing notes is as easily misleading as supportive.

As you open more and become more sensitive and aware, you will see much, much more both internally and externally.

Who's to say "exactly what this is"?

It is Great Mystery!

Enjoy the path.

Every single instant is a result... isn't it?

 

The river of time, the current of our karma forever, ripens the fruit of our actions.

 

Some find bitter fruits, others sweet. Yet who knows what nourishes! Who seeks the source of these diverse tastes? The source that itself is tasteless. One can know the source through the fruit.

[pickledpadma]

Wonderful morsels, you all provide!

Edited July 12, 2014 by pickledpadma

[dawei]

To me, an open heart and open mind is all one needs.

 

What is the heart-mind?

 

You can explain it in simple terms or alchemy terms... the former will be your foundation but the latter will be your understanding.

 

And I hope this thread is not about quoting wiki and can be more serious.

[pickledpadma]

 

What is the heart-mind?

 

You can explain it in simple terms or alchemy terms... the former will be your foundation but the latter will be your understanding.

 

And I hope this thread is not about quoting wiki and can be more serious.

Like I said, my practice is produced by me in accord with my knowledge of various traditions. One hearing it, one will rarely distinguish one similarity!

 

In that context I spoke of making emptiness the heart. Stillness and expansiveness, with no attachments. The mind should be the strong master of the heart and emptiness the strong master of the mind.

 

Mind is conception. The root of ego and subjective conception. Mind when drifting astray is often a lax master unable to perform its duty. A wandering mind can lead to many places. We do not want leading. We want natural flow that is beyond the hand of karma. But what is natural flow without karma. Can you conceptualise it?