Cultivation of the Mind

[ChiDragon]

Mind = Xin (心)

 

I have no problem with Xing(性) = Xin(心) = Mind. However, the Chinese Taoists like to call it "Xing" as an esoteric term for them. It was automatically understood the term was meant 'Mind". Therefore, I must follow their thoughts, in order, to be consistent in any discussion.

 

Btw In the minds of the native speakers through centuries, Xin(心) was always referred as the "Mind" but with more sincerity.

Edited August 2, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Daeluin]

I have no problem with Xing(性) = Xin(心) = Mind.

 

Why do you suppose Liu Yiming has separate chapters explaining True and False Xin and Xing if they both mean the same thing?

[ChiDragon]

Why do you suppose Liu Yiming has separate chapters explaining True and False Xin and Xing if they both mean the same thing?

 

IMO False Xin/Xing is not the true self. One must find the true self, in order, to be a "True" person. For that said, it means all the false information was fed to you once before was considered to be the False Xin/Xing. The False Xin/Xing will cause you to make poor judgement on many other things. You need to be find the truth and and isolate them from the fallacies. That was purifying the mind in the cultivation of the mind is all about.

 

Here is another way of looking at things. All the negative things that you had done was considered to be the False Xin/Xing with respect to the True Xin/Xing. Any positive thing that was recognized by consensus would be considered as the True Xin/Xing.

 

 

Edited to make the thoughts complete. Sorry, I left in a hurry to run some errands.

Edited August 3, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Daeluin]

I'm sorry ChiDragon, I don't think my english was clear.

 

Liu Yiming presents a chapter on describing True and False Xin. After that he presents another chapter describing True and false Xing. He clearly describes them as having completely separate functions.

 

This is all very subtle, and personally I am still only beginning to feel the difference. But I have felt the difference enough for it to allow me to be guided by the Masters and other cultivated people who make effort at clarifying this difference.

 

It is because I investigate principle with an allowance for my structure of knowledge to change that I may progress and evolve.

 

On the other hand you seem very adamant about what you say being the only truth, but have so far been evasive when asked to explain why. It honestly confuses me, but I'm not interested and don't really care. In the end your attachments only hold you back. I wonder why you seem to have trouble adapting.

 

Hmmm.... when I rearrange furniture in a room, I think... I bet the table on that side, the couch here and the lamp there will be great! And then I move it around, and actually feel what it's like to experience life in these new settings. Sometimes I don't like it, and I go back to the way I liked it. Sometimes I don't like it at first and it grows on me. Sometimes it's great but not in the way I thought it would be. The lesson I've learned from this is that even though I can develop quite a bit of skill at predicting the best positions for my furniture, to my preferences, only letting myself change and directly experience the new positions really shows me whether or not my mind was right. And, often I am wrong - and often it is nice to be wrong, when some position of furniture that I didn't think was any good turns out to be fantastic in real life.

 

Part of cultivating the "mind" is acknowledging our minds have blind spots, and being OK with changing things around from time to time. Who knows what we'll find.

[ChiDragon]

Part of cultivating the "mind" is acknowledging our minds have blind spots, and being OK with changing things around from time to time. Who knows what we'll find.

 

Yes, our minds have blind spots. Part of the cultivation of the mind is to remove those spots permanently by positive means rather than trial and errors or guess work. Most of the time, there is one, only one, truth to all things. Perhaps two. One cannot accept everything by the different comments which made by everybody as the truth. I have been noticed that each individual has his/her own idea about one concept. As soon, one presents an idea, then, everybody agrees even it was contradicted to another. However, it makes me think who is really understand the original concept. For example, people love to hear and say the word "energy". Thus every explanation they make was using the word "energy". Recently, somebody had a good laugh about one's comment about a sweet and sour Qi/Body.

Edited August 3, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

 

Yes, our minds have blind spots.

And therefore the importance of "thinking" with our body as well.

[Daeluin]

Yes, our minds have blind spots. Part of the cultivation of the mind is to remove those spots permanently by positive means rather than trial and errors or guess work.

 

What are "positive means"? A label doesn't convey a method, so your explanation is empty.

 

Theories are proven by how well they hold up in the real world. Whether by trial and error, seeing examples in the real world, etc, when it exists in reality and not simply in the mind, a theory can hold weight.

 

The trouble with Qi Gong and Inner Alchemy is that it works a little backwards. Someone can describe Qi, but the rest of the world denies it because they do not feel it in their experience or know how to see it in the real world. The concept of Qi is subtle and elusive to the uninitiated.

 

This is also True of Xin and Xing - the Masters and experienced ones agree - they are not in conflict that there is a difference between Xin and Xing. And yet if you have not reached the level of understanding of a Master, it is all too easy for you to deny the words of the Masters.

 

To proceed deeper into the Tao one must merge the 5 phases into oneness, which requires unsticking ourselves from fixed perceptions and allowing ourselves to change. Change is not a threat when we navigate it from the center.

 

ChiDragon, I'd wager your Chinese Astrology is a Metal Day Stem, and that you have a hefty bit of Wood in the mix. It is very easy for you to attach to knowledge, and you don't want to let it go. And you feel under pressure to make sure others know about this knowledge. That's all fine, but if you are going to really get deeper into your cultivation work, like you say, you'll need to be able to use your understanding of your nature to transform yourself. To overcome your weaknesses and know how to predict your blind spots.

 

One blind spot of yours, ChiDragon, is to respond to the part of a post that most agrees with you or is easiest to use to support your argument. I give you plenty to choose from, in the details. But the essence is what matters, not the details. The essence is evolution through change - shedding a skin - dying to be reborn. Are you brave enough?

[nestentrie]

Personal joke, but: 'Moobs for the ring!'.

[ChiDragon]

Daeluin.....

You have given me nothing but open loops with blind spots. It is utterly impossible for me to respond to a certain degree of accuracy which is so characteristic to your remarks.

[Stosh]

Maybe it's just me but if I was some coastal Neanderthal dude and the menu choice was between a plump juicy non threatening codfish and some aggressive armored spider with pinchy claws then Mr Cod would win every time.

Oh you gotta be kidding ! cod better than crab! Crab kicks abrOSias butt. You have a blind spot

[nestentrie]

...

Edited August 3, 2014 by nestentrie

[nestentrie]

...

Edited August 3, 2014 by nestentrie

[ChiDragon]

This is also True of Xin and Xing - the Masters and experienced ones agree - they are not in conflict that there is a difference between Xin and Xing. And yet if you have not reached the level of understanding of a Master, it is all too easy for you to deny the words of the Masters.

 

Have you reached the level of understand of a Master....??? It is all too easy for you to accept the words of the Masters without knowing what the words are saying.

[Daeluin]

I don't accept anything. I work hard at understanding it. I also let everything go completely and work on transcending, and feeling different things. The energy of every day is different, and leads to completely different cultivation. In this way I experience change without expectation. Then I go back and study some more, and different things start emerging that make sense. My experience has taken me far enough to understand why the golden elixir is called the golden elixir.

 

Most of all, my experience has taught me that attachments prevent change. To work towards the next level one must work without attachment, and be open to feeling what is trying to come. Otherwise one only progresses at the level one is attached to.

[ChiDragon]

..... Someone can describe Qi, but the rest of the world denies it because they do not feel it in their experience or know how to see it in the real world. The concept of Qi is subtle and elusive to the uninitiated.

 

The Chi is existed for sure. Those who discovered it had created a name for it without a good description but just an unproven concept. There are questions which come to my mind when Chi was mentioned.

 

1. Is Chi in the air?

2. When one breathes, was it breathing just the air or Chi or both......?????

3. Can Chi be absorbed just by reaching the hands into the air and call the "Chi of Heaven"? or

4. Was Chi produced, inside the body, by breathing the source of Chi from the air and combined with the nourishment?

5. Are we all just blindly accepting what people(so called masters) say about Chi and took it for granted because a Master or two had said so?

6. Shall we investigate all the given available facts and come up with a more acceptable and logical conclusion abut Chi?

7. Is it wise just shooting words in the air telling people what Chi is by assumptions without justification?

Edited August 3, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Daeluin]

Yeah, try telling that to people who only want to believe it isn't true and doesn't exist.

[ChiDragon]

I can answer those questions one by one with logical evaluation and justification; but I like to hear it from someone else before I do my share.

[Daeluin]

 

The Chi is existed for sure. Those who discovered it had created a name for it without a good description but just an unproven concept.

 

Someone who sees things from a scientific perspective lives in a black an white world. They will want you to prove this thing you call Chi. There are plenty of ways to do so, but all require them to leave their black and white world behind.

 

The Chi exists between black and white, between substance and nothingness, between yin and yang, between extremes.

 

Daeluin.....

 

You have given me nothing but open loops with blind spots. It is utterly impossible for me to respond to a certain degree of accuracy which is so characteristic to your remarks.

 

The Tao is found by reading between the lines. This is a fundamental facet of Taoist principle. If there is polarity, Tao exists in the middle between both sides.

 

If there are details, the Tao is found in the essence the details make up. The letter of the law is the detail, the principle is the essence. The loops and blind spots are where the Tao is found.

 

Do you live in a black and white world, ChiDragon, and is that where you search for the Tao?

[ChiDragon]

Someone who sees things from a scientific perspective lives in a black an white world. They will want you to prove this thing you call Chi. There are plenty of ways to do so, but all require them to leave their black and white world behind.

 

Do you live in a black and white world, ChiDragon, and is that where you search for the Tao?

 

Perhaps you might say that I do live in a black and white world to see things from a scientific perspective.

 

I have found Tao and there is no need to search for Tao.

Edited August 4, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

The Chi exists between black and white, between substance and nothingness, between yin and yang, between extremes.

Interesting. I have not spoken to this before here but in my mind the Tai Chi symbol is mot black and white but rather shades of gray.

[Stosh]

Interesting. I have not spoken to this before here but in my mind the Tai Chi symbol is mot black and white but rather shades of gray.

Might I suggest that its the tao of a human to see the world in shades of gray , while for the tao itself something either is or isnt?

 

... or perhaps the other way around ...

 

but either way , wouldnt a gray disc be a rather enigmatic symbol?

Edited August 4, 2014 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Might I suggest that its the tao of a human to see the world in shades of gray , while for the tao itself something either is or isnt?

 

... or perhaps the other way around ...

 

but either way , wouldnt a gray disc be a rather enigmatic symbol?

Well, sure, you can suggest anything you wish.

 

It is difficult, if not impossible, to find absolute black or white in reality. There are always extenuating circumstances.

 

Shades of gray, not all gray. There would be areas that appear to be black and opposite areas that appear to be white.

 

Yes, I am an inigmatic symbol. Hehehe.

[GrandmasterP]

Yeah, try telling that to people who only want to believe it isn't true and doesn't exist.

 

Where would be the point in attempting that?