Medical Qigong Profession

[zenyogi]

I was wondering how are medical qigong "doctors" regarded? Are there actual titles you can hold and are they accepted as "valid" by the majority of people?

 

Anybody has taken this path and wants to share their views?

 

Ben

Edited July 23, 2014 by zenyogi

[Ya Mu]

Laws, social acceptance, and practicality depend on where you live.

 

Titles are meaningless where there are no laws governing the use of the title. What can have merit is if a client sees that a person has actually spent the time & effort to complete training they will then tend to have a bit more acceptance or faith in their choice to come see you. What I have seen is that certification DOES mean something to the public even if they have no idea what it is.

 

In practice, I can tell you it is a very difficult road where you will constantly be challenged by the ignorant. But I can also tell you there is nothing so rewarding as to watch in real time as you perform wai chi liao fa and the client's eyes get big around as saucers with wonder at their pain being totally removed. Or see the look on their face when they get off the table and they are a totally transformed person with an appearance many years younger then when they first got to your clinic.Or work on a baby and watch the child watch the Light show with amazement. Or bring peace to someone who is passing on to the Spirit World. Or work on a horse or group of horses who, after working on them, immediately recognize you when you come back and line up to be treated, even moving their bodies so your hand will be on the spot they wish to be treated (This happened to me yesterday).

 

In the USA a title would have to be in another recognized profession, as in a PH.D or as a western physician (MD, DO) or doctor of Chiropractic, etc. Titles from Chinese schools are not recognized. As far as I know no state recognizes "doctor" of medical qigong.

 

We do have the NQA (www.NQA.org) which is a national organization with a long history. The NQA will evaluate training (must provide proof and it WILL be scrutinized). They have certification standards for Clinical Qigong. There are several teachers with training programs who do have recognized status with the NQA (Level IV Certified). Students who complete these training programs can apply to the NQA for certification. While it does not at this point mean anything (that I know of) legally, as I said above I have seen that it means something to the public. And, at some point, we will most probably see Clinical Qigong (agreed upon terminology versus "Medical Qigong") going the same route as massage therapy, which in my lifetime has gone from almost no state laws to now most states have a governing board and specific laws. And my guess, after watching what happened with the massage therapy laws, is that the NQA will be the organization looked to by the states when the laws come about.

 

One piece of advice is that I suggest finding something easier to do unless you know in your heart this is for you. This is extremely demanding work. When people come to me and say they want to join my Clinical Qigong Certification program, I spend quite a bit of time trying to talk them out of it.

 

I owned & operated a Clinical Qigong clinic for well over 30 years but retired several years ago so as to teach Clinical Qigong full time

[GrandmasterP]

In the UK medical doctors are registered and regulated by the British Medical Association.

Nurses by the Generl Nursing Councils for England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland.

The HCPC regulates other recognised medical-related practitioners such as podiatrists.

Dentists have their own council as do surgeons and opticians.

There is currently no statutory regulation for 'complementary' medical practitioners, TCM for example.

We do have the CNHC..

The Complementary and Natural Health Care Council.

http://www.cnhc.org.uk/

Registration with the CNHC is currently voluntary however the CNHC is keen on seeking statutory registration for its members and lobbies/meets with the Department of Health towards that end.

Right now in UK, anyone can set up a shingle claiming to be a therapist in something or other providing what they claim to be is not covered by one of those State recognised bodies.

That's neither good for the complementary therapies profession nor for the patients.

Edited July 14, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[joeblast]

well, you cant deny someone the ability to use wei qi liao fa like you can prevent someone without a slip of paper from buying acupuncture needles

 

just another "kiss the ring" setup where you can pay for your privilege of "having people think you know something" regardless of whether you do or whether it has any efficacy to it.

 

set up your own lobbying group and toss millions of dollars at congress, you'd get some law written in your favor too.

[Dainin]

When I saw Ken Cohen in Boulder two years ago, he said that an acupuncture lobbying group is spending a lot of money trying to have medical qigong declared part of scope of practice for licensed acupuncturists, which is to say eliminating competition from non-licensed, non-acupuncturists. I am not sure what the current status of this initiative is.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Dainin

[Ya Mu]

well, you cant deny someone the ability to use wei qi liao fa like you can prevent someone without a slip of paper from buying acupuncture needles

 

just another "kiss the ring" setup where you can pay for your privilege of "having people think you know something" regardless of whether you do or whether it has any efficacy to it.

 

set up your own lobbying group and toss millions of dollars at congress, you'd get some law written in your favor too.

I remember when the massage therapy groups were pushing for laws in the state in which I lived and practiced. I was vehemently against it. The naive massage therapists were getting deceived by the power groups "this will cut down on prostitution" No it won't. "This will give you the ability to get reimbursed by insurance" Actually in most cases no but the thing is, do you really want to have to hire a person and pay them 30K a year so they can spend all day filing insurance? "This will make you look more professional" Who gives a rat's ass about "looking" more professional. Proof is in how one behaves and the efficacy achieved. "You will make more money" No you won't - people will only keep coming to you if you achieve a high efficacy. "This will cut down on the number of people hurting others because they haven't been trained" No it won't as there never had been a single documented case of anyone hurting anyone else. AND the practice is self-regulating; if a person does not know anything and doesn't achieve results then they won't be able to stay in business.

 

So, am I arguing for non-training, everything is roses, just do it? Of course not. If you want to do ANYTHING in life, prepare yourself to your utmost ability to do a good job of the thing you choose to do. In the case of medical qigong, proper training is actually the difference in life and death.

[joeblast]

When I saw Ken Cohen in Boulder two years ago, he said that an acupuncture lobbying group is spending a lot of money trying to have medical qigong declared part of scope of practice for licensed acupuncturists, which is to say eliminating competition from non-licensed, non-acupuncturists. I am not sure what the current status of this initiative is.

its not capitalism when its not about simply making a better product or service, but trying to figure out how to use the law to stifle your "competition" or attempt to set up veritable monopolies on products or services.

 

unfortunately all the needle supply places dont care that I've been buying needles from them for 10 years, I now need a slip of paper saying I know what I'm doing, because congress did us the favor...

 

and I just havent been all that inclined to go find that easiest stupidest online tcm "degree" I can find to just go and pass it so I can "legally" buy needles again. of course, if I could study 2 weeks and bang ccna out in 15 minutes...why am I waiting?

[Ya Mu]

When I saw Ken Cohen in Boulder two years ago, he said that an acupuncture lobbying group is spending a lot of money trying to have medical qigong declared part of scope of practice for licensed acupuncturists, which is to say eliminating competition from non-licensed, non-acupuncturists. I am not sure what the current status of this initiative is.

Yes, all the boards want a piece of it. You will see the massage boards attempting to grab medical qigong for themselves any day now. However, I don't see how they can tell you a person can't pray for another. As long as one is utilizing off-body projection techniques. The problem occurs when touching others - the boards then want to own it.

 

I always suggest to my students that they either 1) go to med school - but realize they will be bucking the system if they do medical qigong, and the temptation to work as a regular professional will be very high and perhaps necessary so as to pay off that awfully high cost. 2) go to Chiropractic school - but realize the temptation to do the 20 people per hour thing so as to make as much money as you can - will be very high. 3) go to acupuncture school 4) go to massage school .This is the easiest avenue currently that I know of. It gives you the ability to touch when needed and many of the medical qigong protocols are on body even though the majority are off-body.

 

Therefore in today's USA market, a person needs to have an avenue to pursue medical qigong; this avenue is in addition to the training required to perform the Clinical Qigong. I suggest massage therapy as the quickest and easiest avenue.

 

Either that, or do nothing but off-body projection - becoming an "ordained minister" through a church group may or may not give one the legal protection needed.

[Ya Mu]

When I saw Ken Cohen in Boulder two years ago, he said that an acupuncture lobbying group is spending a lot of money trying to have medical qigong declared part of scope of practice for licensed acupuncturists, which is to say eliminating competition from non-licensed, non-acupuncturists. I am not sure what the current status of this initiative is.

Another reason this is SO screwed up is that the majority of acupuncture schools do not even offer medical qigong training. You can bet the Chiropractors will be on it full time as well with one of the most powerful lobby groups in the world.

[Enishi]

Therefore in today's USA market, a person needs to have an avenue to pursue medical qigong; this avenue is in addition to the training required to perform the Clinical Qigong. I suggest massage therapy as the quickest and easiest avenue.

 

This is my approach at the moment. I just started clinical work at the massage school I'm attending. Unfortunately the school specifically prohibits students from practicing esoteric healing or other modalities not taught in their curriculum. Instead I offer that to family or friends I sometimes work on at home. When doing clinical work I do set Intent though to improve the atmosphere of the room and assist my regular massage routine.

 

 

[Ya Mu]

This is my approach at the moment. I just started clinical work at the massage school I'm attending. Unfortunately the school specifically prohibits students from practicing esoteric healing or other modalities not taught in their curriculum. Instead I offer that to family or friends I sometimes work on at home. When doing clinical work I do set Intent though to improve the atmosphere of the room and assist my regular massage routine.

 

 

Unfortunately the massage schools mainly teach fluff & buff which is virtually worthless. You already know much more than the instructors ever will. I suggest you don't talk about the medical qigong very much until you finish their program. You will have to just bear their fluff and buff crap until you get your license then you can start doing actual therapeutics. Once you start your clinic your result rate will be far beyond that of most therapists in your state. You just have to play their little game until you finish the school.

[zenyogi]

Thanks everyone for the insightful replies. Its a very interesting subject with many views.

May everyone on earth benefit from qigong

Ben

Edited July 23, 2014 by zenyogi

[Ya Mu]

Thanks everyone for the insightful replies. Its a very interesting subject with many views.

 

May everyone on earth benefit from qigong

 

Zen

So...Are you performing medical qigong now or just thinking about going into the field of study? One suggestion I have is that if you do feel called to do it then don't let what other people think influence your decision to do medical qigong. It is a science and art form that is truly needed in today's society and can address many things where other forms of therapeutics fail. We have seen this over and over.

[zenyogi]

Ya Mu,

I think it would be a great thing to do, so many people can be helped. I do feel that its best to undergo training and work experience in China for some years.

My life at the moment is more about personal practise.

Maybe I go that direction one day? Lets see what the future holds..

I was mainly interested in hearing opinions to get a better understanding and I did, so thank you all.

Nevertheless medical qigong is really amazing and I hope many more will open up to it and let it heal one and all.

Ben

Edited July 23, 2014 by zenyogi

[Enishi]

Unfortunately the massage schools mainly teach fluff & buff which is virtually worthless. You already know much more than the instructors ever will. I suggest you don't talk about the medical qigong very much until you finish their program. You will have to just bear their fluff and buff crap until you get your license then you can start doing actual therapeutics. Once you start your clinic your result rate will be far beyond that of most therapists in your state. You just have to play their little game until you finish the school.

 

Thanks!

 

The school I'm attending is the Ann Arbor Institute of Massage Therapy. Purportedly it's one of the better massage schools in the country. Nothing I've seen or experienced there thus far even remotely compares to SM workshops however.

 

 

Recently we had a weekend of training in Myofascial Release. I'm not quite sure what to think of it yet, it was fascinating learning about fascia but some of the techniques felt incredibly painful when on the receiving end. O.o

Edited August 26, 2014 by Enishi

[BaguaKicksAss]

Yes, all the boards want a piece of it. You will see the massage boards attempting to grab medical qigong for themselves any day now. However, I don't see how they can tell you a person can't pray for another. As long as one is utilizing off-body projection techniques. The problem occurs when touching others - the boards then want to own it.

 

I always suggest to my students that they either 1) go to med school - but realize they will be bucking the system if they do medical qigong, and the temptation to work as a regular professional will be very high and perhaps necessary so as to pay off that awfully high cost. 2) go to Chiropractic school - but realize the temptation to do the 20 people per hour thing so as to make as much money as you can - will be very high. 3) go to acupuncture school 4) go to massage school .This is the easiest avenue currently that I know of. It gives you the ability to touch when needed and many of the medical qigong protocols are on body even though the majority are off-body.

 

Therefore in today's USA market, a person needs to have an avenue to pursue medical qigong; this avenue is in addition to the training required to perform the Clinical Qigong. I suggest massage therapy as the quickest and easiest avenue.

 

Either that, or do nothing but off-body projection - becoming an "ordained minister" through a church group may or may not give one the legal protection needed.

 

And as a medical Dr. if you use qigong on folks, you could lose your license...

[Ya Mu]

 

And as a medical Dr. if you use qigong on folks, you could lose your license...

The main reason this is possible is that you wouldn't be practicing "standard of care" and if you did medical qigong on little Suzy instead of prescribing the antibiotic and little Suzy several weeks later comes down with something (even totally unrelated) and dies, you bet they would come after you with a lawsuit for not practicing "standard of care" and not only would you lose your license but also multi-millions of dollars.

That said I have trained a number of physicians who do use medical qigong, but many of them use it in a specialized manner different than a typical medical qigong clinician so as to not come under scrutiny.

 

But physicians even face this with acupuncture although organizations like the medical acupuncture group started by Dr Joseph Helms have made great inroads to its acceptability. I know a physician who practiced acupuncture in Mississippi and the mandated insurance was listed under "surgery" and was close to 15K per year. Which of course made it impractical.

 

I think organizations like the National Qigong Association are making some inroads to acceptance of medical/clinical qigong with their standards and certification. LONG road ahead though.

[BaguaKicksAss]

The main reason this is possible is that you wouldn't be practicing "standard of care" and if you did medical qigong on little Suzy instead of prescribing the antibiotic and little Suzy several weeks later comes down with something (even totally unrelated) and dies, you bet they would come after you with a lawsuit for not practicing "standard of care" and not only would you lose your license but also multi-millions of dollars.

That said I have trained a number of physicians who do use medical qigong, but many of them use it in a specialized manner different than a typical medical qigong clinician so as to not come under scrutiny.

 

But physicians even face this with acupuncture although organizations like the medical acupuncture group started by Dr Joseph Helms have made great inroads to its acceptability. I know a physician who practiced acupuncture in Mississippi and the mandated insurance was listed under "surgery" and was close to 15K per year. Which of course made it impractical.

 

I think organizations like the National Qigong Association are making some inroads to acceptance of medical/clinical qigong with their standards and certification. LONG road ahead though.

 

Or because the drug companies make a little less that week.

 

Unfortunately there are also cases I have seen where the Dr. would give standard care (giving little suzie her antibiotics) but *also* alternative care, and be booted out .

 

Eventually though...

 

They do have a weekly qigong class for the patients in the hospital here locally, which is pretty awesome . So some headway is being made.

[Ya Mu]

Or because the drug companies make a little less that week.

 

Unfortunately there are also cases I have seen where the Dr. would give standard care (giving little suzie her antibiotics) but *also* alternative care, and be booted out .

 

Eventually though...

 

They do have a weekly qigong class for the patients in the hospital here locally, which is pretty awesome . So some headway is being made.

Never saw a documented case of a physician losing license due to medical qigong practice when "standard of care" was utilized. Was this in Canada or USA?

 

The way I teach to physicians who want to utilize medical qigong depends on what the physician wants to do. If they wish to continue their regular practice I teach them how to do the wai qi liao fa discreetly - in this manner there is no way anyone would lose their license. I use a slightly modified method in teaching counselors to utilize it in their practice.

There are many ways to utilize medical qigong. While I sometimes personally have a bent for the dramatic gestures, it is totally unnecessary.

[Brian]

Just wanted to say that I have a flare for the non-dramatic(if you follow me) and, after learning the techniques with dramatic gestures, Ya Mu guided me to a very subtle approach. I choose to use either or both based on LISTENING and, while still a beginner, I find them equally effective. The dramatic seems a bit more efficient at this point but I am certain this is entirely because I do a better job of focusing my INTENT when I utilize a more physical approach -- at this point in my development, that is.