Kundabuffer

[Anoesjka]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I wouldn't know where else to put it. Several schools are talking about the Kundabuffer organ, or the remains of it, and that it should be destroyed first by the new soul, before it rises through the Shushumna.

 

Is the Kundabuffer merely the ego, or is it something else? Does anyone have firsthand experience?

Edited July 14, 2014 by Anoesjka

[manitou]

Haven't a clue what the Kundabuffer organ is - do you think it falls under Occult or Esoteric? Is it tied in with Buddhism or Vedanta somehow? If so, we should move this thread to one of those sections. I'm going to google Kundabuffer. I'll be back

[manitou]

Hi again - you might want to check out the thread of 3/15/14, titled Kundalini, Kundabuffer, and Black Tantra. It was started in General Discussion and if you pick the thread up again you'll get some activity.

 

Just go up to the Search box on the upper right hand of the page and type Kundabuffer in there - it will point you not only to this thread, but the other one in General Discussion.

 

Sounds like a really interesting topic. I can see where it would fit in with Buddhism as to losing the 'body of desires' (Satan's tail) and shushumna, but it seems that it would fall into General Discussion because it covers such a broad spectrum. I look forward to participating.

[silent thunder]

Never heard of it before, but this came up in a gnostic setting...

http://gnosticteachings.org/books-by-samael-aun-weor/the-elimination-of-satans-tail/288-the-kundabuffer-organ.html

 

and this within the context of Gurdjeff's teachings

https://sites.google.com/site/amritayanabuddhism/Home/the-organ-kundabuffer

 

having no belief in satan or beelzebub as anything other than an allegory, I'll go with allegory, or that's what folks called it when other folks were born with tails...

[Chang]

Kundabuffer was a term coined by Gurdjieff but as happens has been picked up and put to use in other traditions.

 

Take a look here:-

 

http://gurdjieffmeetings.blogspot.co.uk/p/kunderbuffer.html

 

And remember. You can trust a man with a huge moustache and a bald head.

[Anoesjka]

Manitou, silent thunder, thanks for your replies. I will seek out those threads.

 

I come from Rosicrucianism and they believe in things like Kundalini and building the rainbow body. I also don't think it is a literal thing, but I have experienced so many strange things, that to me nothing seems impossible anymore. But I do believe Satan is the metaphor for the egotistical and hedonistic "lower" traits in us humans, so therefore I thought the Kundabuffer is equal somehow to the ego.

 

This Beelzebub is a teacher from a gnostic sect, he claims he used to be a demon, until he decided to change his life. (I'm not judging!)

 

Even though Kundalini and Chi are Hindu and Taoist concepts, they are also mainstream in esoteric teachings. They borrowed a lot from the eastern traditions.

[Jetsun]

Yeah Gurdjieff used the term Kundabuffer because he considered the word ego was too loaded with already existing concepts and ideas which could get in the way of real understanding. Although one relatively unique thing he said about it was that it creates a blockage towards the lower part of the spine which prevent the energy from rising properly beyond a certain point.

[Anoesjka]

http://thetaobums.com/topic/34094-kundalini-kundabuffer-black-tantra/?hl=kundabuffer

 

That's the thread Manitou hinted at. I think that I'm going to have nightmares tonight. (My sacral area hurts)

 

I now remember why I quit being a Rosicrucian, too complicated with a lot of fear instilling.

[manitou]

I'm guessing, after reading the previous thread (that I didn't know how to provide her a link to!) that Gurdjieff wasn't actually kundalini active.

[Nungali]

http://thetaobums.com/topic/34094-kundalini-kundabuffer-black-tantra/?hl=kundabuffer

 

That's the thread Manitou hinted at. I think that I'm going to have nightmares tonight. (My sacral area hurts)

 

I now remember why I quit being a Rosicrucian, too complicated with a lot of fear instilling.

 

Gosh! I must not have 'reached' that stage yet ? The Rosicrucianism I have been involved with didnt have any fear instilling processes ... well, there is the 'Black Room' but that is only the entrance to the 'Red Lodge' a place of ' Bodhisatvic beauty' . We all have to get through that stage ... but it is a negative we pick up from 'outside'.

 

'Complicated' ... perhaps ... but it is an Hermetic development so ..... <shrug> its bound to have some 'complexity'.

 

Are you sure the branch of Rosicrucianism you were into was valid ?

 

At first I thought Kinderbuffer was a type of Steiner 'Ahrimanic Energy' but blocking in the lower sacrum ... hmmmm.

 

Mmmm .... Gurdjieff , angles , implants, colonies on Moons , sounds to me like a kinda bluffer.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Nungali

[GrandmasterP]

Kundabuffer.

 

Now there's a word that really rolls off the tongue eh?

No surprise there that it really caught the popular imagination and is a forever being used in conversations.

What a pity the neologism ' Lolcat' hasn't enjoyed the massive success with the public that 'Kundabuffer' has gained since Gurdjieff's day.

Round these parts they speak of little else.

Edited July 15, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Anoesjka]

Gosh! I must not have 'reached' that stage yet ? The Rosicrucianism I have been involved with didnt have any fear instilling processes ... well, there is the 'Black Room' but that is only the entrance to the 'Red Lodge' a place of ' Bodhisatvic beauty' . We all have to get through that stage ... but it is a negative we pick up from 'outside'.

 

'Complicated' ... perhaps ... but it is an Hermetic development so ..... <shrug> its bound to have some 'complexity'.

 

Are you sure the branch of Rosicrucianism you were into was valid ?

 

At first I thought Kinderbuffer was a type of Steiner 'Ahrimanic Energy' but blocking in the lower sacrum ... hmmmm.

 

Mmmm .... Gurdjieff , angles , implants, colonies on Moons , sounds to me like a kinda bluffer.

 

I was with AMORC, but only as neophyte, later on I got teachings from Lectorium Rosicrucianum which were indeed quite a different group. They claimed that AMORC was occult and they weren't.

 

I think this Kundabuffer thing is indeed kind of threathening, if you raise the Kundalini without the help of the Holy Spirit, or the New Soul, you are damned; the negative chakra's open up and you are doomed to hit "rock bottom". That sort of thing is kind of frightening.

 

LR also believes that we stem from dinosaurs, so that's not very different from theosophical teachings imo.

[GrandmasterP]

What sort of dinosaurs?

[Anoesjka]

Pink ones

[GrandmasterP]

Yay!

 

I'd always suspected that to be the case.

Edited July 15, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Anoesjka]

@Nungali: I didn't mean to bash Rosicrucians, in fact I'm still one in my heart and forever will be. But there are indeed many different beliefs among them. And since you're not allowed to question those beliefs, it may not be a place for those of us with rebellious natures like myself.

[Nungali]

@Nungali: I didn't mean to bash Rosicrucians, in fact I'm still one in my heart and forever will be. But there are indeed many different beliefs among them. And since you're not allowed to question those beliefs, it may not be a place for those of us with rebellious natures like myself.

 

yeah but thats in AMORC and LR. They are far from being the all of R+C!

 

Is it (and Lewis or Clymer ) really R+C ?

 

" Lewis received authority to do so from the Supreme Council of the Rosicrucian Order " (not annotated or verified) - Wiki

 

errmmm , which one, the Martinist one ... the Qabbalistic one, the Freemasonic one R+C in Anglia, etc etc. ?

 

" Being more and more pressed by members concerning his authenticity and rosicrucian authority, Lewis then produced at the spring of 1916 the story of his alleged initiation in Toulouse, which seems nevertheless to have raised some skepticism among his members because the Imperator says that his«American Council» asked him to produce «a regularly executed paper of sponsorship of the American Order signed by the Supreme Council of the World» on behalf of the «Supreme Grand Lodge of France» which, he claimed, had initiated him in 1909. So the founder of A.M.O.R.C. came with a document intitled Pronunziamento R.F.R.C., N° 987,432 that was submitted to his American Council during October 1915 and which he gave a complete description of in his magazine.⁴¹ It seems that this document did not convince the members either about the Imperator’s authority upon A.M.O.R.C. as the Order was near to collapse by the end of 1917 when, being much criticized for his autocracy, Lewis resigned as Supreme Grand Master and appointed Conrad H. Lindstedt to succeed him.⁴² Lewis - who remained Imperator of course - announced:

 

«It is nearly time for us to retire from publicity and become the hidden organization which the Order has become in foreign lands. Gradually the real and full name of our Order will pass from the minds of the curious and be hidden from the gaze of the vulgar and profane. With the passing of the name into seeming oblivion will go into silence all but discreet word of mouth propaganda. This is as it should be (...) As 1918 enters into our consciousness we find the Order making its first move toward profound silence. We are about to retire to oblivion, as we predicted we would, and carry on our work in a greater way than has been possible before (...) Membership into our Order will be far more difficult to acquire after January, 1918, than membership into any other secret organization, and all Secretaries and Masters in our Order will be notified of the new requirements for membership after that date.»

 

Lewis’ good intentions did not last for long and he soon started to advertise again bombastically for A.M.O.R.C. On June 17^th, 1918 he was arrested on the ground of a «larceny of money through the sale of bonds» for his Order. On this occasion the Imperator told a reporter that «at no time had his organization A.M.O.R.C. ever claimed to be operating as a branch of the Rosae Crucis organization in France» and added: «We have never claimed to hold any warrant, charter, patent or authority from any foreign country».⁴⁴ It is almost certain that Lewis’ declaration to the press did not remain unnoticed by the members of his American Council who probably questioned their Imperator again upon the source of his rosicrucian authority."

 

Then he tried to get an authority of recognition from Crowley;

 

" Moreover, in this letter, Crowley talks about a Charter shown to him by Lewis and purporting to be from the Rose-Croix in France, probably the famousPronunziamento R.F.R.C. 987.432 or 978.601 of which there has already been question,⁵¹ making it clear, with some irony, that this was a fake prepared by the Imperator himself:

 

«I also did you a good turn in respect of the Charter purporting to be from the French Rosicrucians in Toulouse, by pointing out that if they had mastered all the secrets of Nature, those of the elementary rules of French grammar still baffled them, so that you wisely withdrew the document.»⁵²

 

Crowley will be even more explicit a few years later in a letter addressed to Arnoldo Krumm-Heller:

 

«Spencer Lewis (...) had been knocking about for years trying to run a fake Rosicrucian order. He cast about everywhere for authority and when I first met him in New York in 1918 E.V., he was showing a charter supposed to be from the French Rosicrucians in Toulouse. He had devoted so much time to the conquest of the innermost secrets of Nature that he had not been able to spend any to learn French. Now even in New York there are a few people who know French and this ridiculous forgery made him a general laughing stock so that he withdrew it.»⁵³

 

^" It does not seem that this miscarried plan had too much effect on Lewis’ career because the Imperator inaugurated his new temple in New York at the autumn of 1918 with the money he had obtained from the «Supreme Grand Lodge Temple Fund Donations» and which had caused him a night in jail.⁵⁷ But the doubt was still so present in the minds of many A.M.O.R.C. members that by the end of 1918 Lewis felt obliged to deliver an «Imperator’s Personal Message» in which he tried to give an answer to the «Paramount Problems» of the Order, declaring in particular:

 

«This brings me to another one of the charges made: that there was not and is not a truly established, rightfully empowered Supreme Rosaecrucian (or Rose Croix) Council of the World (...) All who should know will come to know some day, that the Great White Brotherhood of the World has its Supreme R+C Council, the members of which are the chief executives of our Order wherever it exists and, some day, the relation between our Order and similar branches of work being conducted by the Great White Brotherhood will be made known. Until then, silence and fidelity are the watchwords.»⁵⁸

 

^{It goes on an on and on} http://www.parareligion.ch/sunrise/vanloo/ameng.htm

 

Its not really authority what is REALLY important though, is it? Its through their actions (and teachings) you will know them.

 

A shame really (for them) ... as my experiences were nothing like you describe , but then I had nothing to do with AMORC or LR.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Nungali

[Anoesjka]

yeah but thats in AMORC and LR. They are far from being the all of R+C!

 

No, probably not. But how can there be so many different viewpoints in a mystery school with the same name? Not that it's very important, I will walk the path that's right for me, without sticking to any dogma now.

 

Its not really authority what is REALLY important though, is it? Its through their actions (and teachings) you will know them.

 

A shame really (for them) ... as my experiences were nothing like you describe , but then I had nothing to do with AMORC or LR.

Then I was just ignorant in signing up with one of them (but at least I gained some insight). I believe you, when you state that there are orders that are more ethical. It's what I had in mind when signing up.

 

Maybe the people there just didn't have the answers I was looking for, or my perception was faulty.

 

I'm glad that mystery schools exist with such high standards. It's probably just an issue with taking metaphors literally.

[Nungali]

 

 

Then I was just ignorant in signing up with one of them (but at least I gained some insight). I believe you, when you state that there are orders that are more ethical. It's what I had in mind when signing up.

 

 

 

Cant really experience the fruit without tasting it though can one ? Its all experience and all valuable if one looks at it the right way.

 

But sometimes I do covert .....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ooooooooo !