The Dark Side of Meditation

[rex]

Interesting blog post questioning the role of meditation as a universal panacea:

 

http://magicoftheordinary.wordpress.com/2013/08/15/danger-will-robinson/

[GrandmasterP]

Classic example of an opinion piece/ advertisement dressed up as analysis that's been written in such a way as to lull and then to catch customers.

The tempting 'hook' at the beginning that he's going to thoughtfully unpick some issues via analysis.

Thus...

( He cites and numbers the 8 attributes).....

...................................................................

 

1: "Right understanding or view (Wisdom)".....

 

 

"Notice what comes in at number one? In fact the practise side of things (concentration) does not start until weve developed some wisdom and ethics."

 

Looks good so far.

But then he sets his own brand bait out thusly......

 

"Without these, depth meditation is at best useless or self-focused and at worst a precursor to psychic disintegration."....

 

OK that's a bit too much too soon so he tempers his whackiness with an ostensible appeal to wider ( vast and gracious) tradition in the next part.......

 

 

"This is why these vast and gracious traditions developed around depth spiritual practices, traditions that include ethics, intellectual development, community engagement and service, without which practise is sterile. It is why traditionalist philosophy espouses the practice of an exoteric religion to house, ground and contain our esoteric transformations. It is why, in the video, HH the Dalai Lama refused to bless a new monastery that did not include a library but focused solely on meditation practise." ....

 

Yay Dalai Lama! he's a good dude.

So now, having passed off his own brand of woo by spurious association with some recognised paths ( must be good, look at the company I keep!) our chum can move in for the kill and sell his own-brand schtick after dressing it up to suck in his less than critical readership.

Here's the sales pitch, right at the end. After softening up the punters and getting them to an unreflected " Yes Please" he moves in for his 'win' to close the deal and sell his ' Inner Light Tradition' -related merchandise here.......

 

 

 

 

"I am probably a lone or lonely voice in this respect, but there you go Ill finish quoting myself from a similar post:

 

Right understanding. This is not a practice, but an attitude, a focal point, a giving up of the egos sovereignty. It is the neophyte in the Inner Light tradition declaring I desire to know in order to serve. ."

 

 

............................................

They're all at it.

Every other online guru and 'wisdom vendor' has product to shift.

This guy's doing his best to shift his merchandise.

Caveat Emptor.

 

Did you spot the products BTW?

He sells..

Inner Light Tradition books

And

Depth Spiritual Practices

Seminars

 

 

 

Edited July 15, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Taoist]

That guy was just angry that his mind moves about too much to ever derive any deep experience from Mindfulness Meditation. So it became important to turn his first love of gathering information into a holy act since he couldn't bring himself to an appreciable level of stillness. Not trying to come down on him in particular as I see myself coming from such a know-it-all mentality whenever I am mentally trying to conjure up a feeling of validity within my own conscious experience. Nevertheless, I have to agree with him in that Mindfulness Meditation is not the universal panacea. I would say that even the Awakened State that Mindfulness Meditation is pointing towards is not the universal panacea but the end of the need for one. I also agree that the Western Mystery Traditions offer a great bounty of understanding when it comes to learning about and deriving insight into the nature of Mind. For me the usefulness of the tool comes down to the skill of the artisan every time.

[Taoist]

Regarding the dark side of meditation I would have to say that in my experience most of that is a by product of unrestrained obsession over the goal instead of the practice. Yet I would also have to say from my experience that these dark experiences are practically unavoidable for someone that sets themselves out with even the slightest inkling of approaching some great goal with the practice. Long story short. Life is a razor's edge no matter which angle it is approached from.

[rex]

Well GrandmasterP you're certainly a crowd puller to any post. When I looked this morning there were no replies and a desultory sixteen views. On checking later this afternoon there was your reply and sixty seven views! Questions of commercial interests in spirituality always provides fertile ground for debate, though I don't see an author placing an advert for their book on their blog page detracting from the essential value of what they have to say.

 

Thanks for your observations Taoist. When I first took up meditation I had all sorts trouble and it was only because I was practising within the context of a tradition, with the support and perspectives this provides, that I weathered the storm and came through the other end. In times of polarisation and fundamentalism the author's ecumenical approach is a welcome light and accords with the Golden Dawn admonition " .. to hold all Religions in reverence, for there is none but contains a Ray from the Ineffable Light that you are seeking.'

 

 

[GrandmasterP]

His full colour ad is to the right by the 'article'.

It links to his book.

Here......

http://www.amazon.com/By-Names-Images-Bringing-Golden/dp/1908011505

 

His website complete with Paypal 'Donate' button is here...

http://occultofpersonality.net/peregrin-wildoak/

 

( Give generously)

 

HTH

 

I've no issue with what Michael Stone and that neuroscientist are saying in the clip which he's lifted from elsewhere.

That's sound sense.

But friend 'Peregrin' isn't saying what's being said in that interview at all he's using the clip as a 'hook' to snare buyers.

Could you imagine either Michael Stone or a tenured neuroscientist ever endorsing Peregrin's book?

Edited July 15, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[rex]

I don't think it's really the point that sources cited have to necessarily endorse an author's conclusions or world view. All the author is doing is combining different public domain sources to present a particular position.

 

Arguably the blog is already preaching to the converted and the citing of the sources serves to indicate areas of authoritative commonality outside the readers' specialist interest area.

Edited July 16, 2014 by rex

[GrandmasterP]

That's fair comment Rex and at least the guy is linking to that useful interview.

There's a whiff of 'triumphalism' in some areas of Mindfulness.

It has been over hyped as some sort of universal panacea in some places, mainly by publishers in fairness.

I am pretty much 'on top' of English Mindfulness books as I am sent review copies.

Every Mindfulness 'how to' book carries a limitations and guidelines preface but you'd not always realise that from some of the wilder claims made on the covers of or in advertisements for some works.

That's down to the publisher's marketing departments rather than the authors.

To an extent also we're suffering right now from Mindfulness being fashionable in the media.

( It's been around since the late 1970s)

Hardly a week goes past without some overenthusiastic newspaper or magazine journalist bigging up their experiences on a Mindfulness gig and pitching their articles as if they had discovered the greatest secret ever.

That's BS and will lead to an eventual backlash from disappointed participants for whom Mindfulness either hasn't 'worked' at all or has had a detrimental effect.

Most Mindfulness cultivators will feel "10% Better" if they stick with it.

Some Mindfulness cultivators it simply won't suit at all and not 'work'.

A very few will be worse than when they began.

Those unfortunates will be the folks who should never have started Mindfulness in the first place.

They are likely to have done so via ignoring the 'preface warning' at the beginning of a book / other medium of instruction: or the very clear guidelines that every responsible Mindfulness Coach/ Mentor is trained to issue - and check that those have been understood by all- at the very start of a Mindfulness programme.

A minuscule proportion may have fallen into the hands of some self- certificated idiot who has set up offering ' Mindfulness' training without being in possession of any recognised qualification to do so.

In the UK ALL Mindfulness coaches/ mentors recognised by our National Health Service to accept referrals from Doctors have a minimum Level 4 fully accredited qualification, they have been assessed, tested, passed and are subject to regular checks on their work and own Continuing Professional Development.

After gaining that Level 4 award the Mindfulness Coaches/Mentors are expected to work towards a Level 7 ( Masters Level) accreditation in Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy through either Oxford or Bangor Universities.

Edited July 16, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[rex]

Thanks GrandmasterP. Shame I haven't got the time to look into this in any depth though I'm dimly aware that there're studies on neuroplasticity that identify changes made to brain activity and structure from conscious cultivation of loving kindness. It would be interesting to find out what work has been done in comparing the effects of meditation on the psychological health and well being of meditators (against a standard measurement/scale for this - if there's one, that is) and practice within different environments i.e. purely secular or spiritual/religious.

[GrandmasterP]

Thanks GrandmasterP. Shame I haven't got the time to look into this in any depth though I'm dimly aware that there're studies on neuroplasticity that identify changes made to brain activity and structure from conscious cultivation of loving kindness. It would be interesting to find out what work has been done in comparing the effects of meditation on the psychological health and well being of meditators (against a standard measurement/scale for this - if there's one, that is) and practice within different environments i.e. purely secular or spiritual/religious.

 

This is hot off the press, July 2014 and gives an outline of the refereed research to date on Mindfulness MBSR and MBCT.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Thrive-Power-Evidence-Based-Psychological-Therapies/dp/1846146054/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1405721086&sr=1-1&keywords=thrive

[Spotless]

Their is no "dark side" to meditation.

 

Any more than their is a dark side to water.

 

Yes - you can drown in water and your can drink to much of it and it will kill you.

 

Their is definitely a dark side to sleep walking through life after life and meditation is definitely one wonderful and nearly a universal panacea for nudging one into a more wakeful state than the robotics we typically see boinking about.

 

The discussion in the video almost qualified as a discussion with some substance - the vast "average" person is typically pretty capable of sorting out meditation as it relates to them once they are exposed to it - actually do it. And we in the West are gradually learning that it is more complicated and far more rewarding than we at first understood. So now we are starting to have more dialog regarding the effects - but "dark side" - not a chance.

Edited August 8, 2014 by Spotless

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

I often think the dangers of meditation are overstated, although no doubt coming from me, that is ironic.

 

I suppose we would have to discuss what is meant by meditation.

...

Edited August 8, 2014 by Captain Mar-Vell