What exactly IS the law of duality ?

[TaoMaster]

Id like to get some feedback on this subject and see where it goes. Can anyone here give me an example of the law and how it realtes to your life on a daily basis ?

 

I can . but id like to hear from others . Im not going to shoot anyone down so please feel free to say anything about it .

 

Thx !!

 

BTW. Im an american born native to Calif who has not studied ANY tao literature for more than 15 minutes of my whole life yet I consider myself a tao master as it relates to the law of duailty

 

I use a meditation exercise that is very very effective for attaining out of body location awarness experience and another excercise used for thoroughly understanding the law of duality .

 

The Yang yin symbol I use as my avatar is specifically turned with white on top and the two opposing black white dots have been intentionally removed.

[opendao]

BTW. Im an american born native to Calif who has not studied ANY tao literature for more than 15 minutes of my whole life yet I consider myself a tao master as it relates to the law of duailty

 

The law of duality is a law of destruction. It's not a true Dao. Somebody can become a "master" when he/she overcomes the duality. There are a lot about it in classic books you don't like to read.

[silent thunder]

for me, duality pertains to a certain frequency of being...

 

it's a natural expression of the extremes inherent in 'things' as we perceive them, in the process we call reality.

 

waves are composed of crests and troughs.

 

they are not crests or troughs.

 

they are the expression of varying extremities of both within certain conditions and frequencies that we experience as waves.

 

they, the extremes of the conditions, cannot exist without one another as they are in fact the same thing, expressing naturally within the conditions of our perceived reality.

 

... i tried, it's early here, maybe I'll take another stab at it later...

[TaoMaster]

The law of duality is a law of destruction. It's not a true Dao. Somebody can become a "master" when he/she overcomes the duality. There are a lot about it in classic books you don't like to read.

 

 

hey TB thx for the reply.

 

Very interesting , its the law of descruction ? can you help me understand this a litte better ? Its not that I dont like to read classic books or books on taoisum. I dont care to read any books. but rather discover lies about truth of life and the universe by taking it apart and putting it back together . Like the engine of a car or the peel of a banana.

 

The best way for me that ive noticed to understand a subject is first hand experiences in life rather than reading a book about someone elses . I have read some things on the subject though, but out of curiosity and for conformtion of my own real life experiences.

 

Then if im wrong about it in some way I know its me whos in error rather than anothers error ive "bought "

as truth .

 

So yes im curious about others input . It helps me as much as it helps others.

 

Lets take self and others for example. In reality there is just 1 life . Self and others are 1 and the same . Our bodys are seperated and different but whos in control of these physical life form bodies ? spiritual Life ?

 

We, you and I are just self and other . When you can "see" both sides of the spectrurn of self and other, you and me, it just becomes life. No just self and no just other and no self and others , just life as self and others in the spiritual form of 1 life for all physical life forms.

Edited July 15, 2014 by TaoMaster

[TaoMaster]

wow thanks so much , I just experienced a new realization about the LOD. woo hoo !!

 

somthing i have not considered before.

 

every new realization on this subject is like learning something new about a piano. when i think theres nothing more to know about it and then I do its like YES YES YES, im so stoked.

 

I actually know theres much more to know and understand about it , its just when im making more progress, like today that I feel Im getting somewhere with it . Its like seeing the whole picture from a remote point of view but theres still part of the whole in not seeing.

 

More replys are very very welcome Thx again !!!!

 

for me, duality pertains to a certain frequency of being...

 

it's a natural expression of the extremes inherent in 'things' as we perceive them, in the process we call reality.

 

waves are composed of crests and troughs.

 

they are not crests or troughs.

 

they are the expression of varying extremities of both within certain conditions and frequencies that we experience as waves.

 

they, the extremes of the conditions, cannot exist without one another as they are in fact the same thing, expressing naturally within the conditions of our perceived reality.

 

... i tried, it's early here, maybe I'll take another stab at it later...

[ChiDragon]

I wouldn't say it is the "law of destruction" but the "law of balance".

[Trunk]

The more classical concepts (though I talk about 'em kind of in my own language) that I think of in relation to "duality" are:

 

1. heavy / lofty

There are denser, heavier energies that we'd refer to as relatively "yin".

There are more expansive, loftier energies that we'd refer to as relatively "yang".

These of course interact, inform, nurture, refine, transform into each other and are part of the interplay between the larger forces referred to as heaven (or sky) and earth. The interplay between heaven ~ human ~ earth.

 

... the other duality in terms of:

2. the experience of the subject / object split as contrasted with the experience of unified transcendent experience, "the one medicine".

This has to do with classical concepts of emptiness.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Trunk

[zerostao]

trunk, i like your language> "object split"

its just like when someone only looks at thing objectively, their mind does split and (they) separate(s) from reality and then they have all sorts of illusions to sort thru.

very much in contrast with unity.

[Marblehead]

There is no law and there are no dualities. Each and every thing exists in its own right. But yes, there is a difference between hot and cold water - the temperature of it.

 

Laws and dualities are man-made constructs. Without man there are no laws and there are no dualities.

[GrandmasterP]

Beat me to it MH.

You can't have a " Law" ( scientistic) of duality nor a law ( legislation) for duality either.

We can talk about duality until the cows come home but in real terms we are just whistling in the dark.

Duality is one of those slippery labels that depends upon its various and varied interpreters for context definitely but 'meaning' never.

My 'opposite' of my contexted 'duality' ( the labels I'd generally use) = " Is-ness" and that term is as empty of meaning as is the term 'duality' in my context or any other.

One of the ironies on some faith paths being that without the negative 'duality' there is nothing against which to define and compare what it is that faith path claims to be 'true'.

" We are not 'that' hence we are 'this'." seems strange dogmatics to me but each to his own.

 

Taoism neatly sidesteps the endless circular 'dual/not dual' merry-go-round by recognising that " All is Tao and there's Yin n Yang in everything - in every direction. - all the way."

 

Edited July 15, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[silent thunder]

Due to my perception within duality, I'm often more able to see what I am, based on what I am not, but only within/from my clinging/associating with a spot within the framework of duality perception. I'm reminded of Manitou's post and High Indifference. There exists in awareness a frame of perception that is still part of this process yet not of it.

The Sage does not take the world personally. Be in the world, but not of it.

 

This state/point allows for everything within duality, judges not a whit and cares not as to the process or passing and coming into being of 'things'; while emanating constant love.

 

To vibrate here and emanate this...

[Marblehead]

Due to my perception within duality, I'm often more able to see what I am, based on what I am not, ...

Don't get me wrong. I didn't say that for the individual dualities are not useful. They are, actually. They help us function in every-day life. But these dualities will vary between individuals. That is because they are subjective, not objective.

 

But as far as dualities being a law, I doubt I could ever go there.

[opendao]

hey TB thx for the reply.

 

Very interesting , its the law of descruction ? can you help me understand this a litte better ? Its not that I dont like to read classic books or books on taoisum. I dont care to read any books. but rather discover lies about truth of life and the universe by taking it apart and putting it back together . Like the engine of a car or the peel of a banana.

 

Life is a bit more complex then banana... The duality is a way of this world, it's a way of destruction, because it causes beings and things to die and vanish. It's a Law, because all things cannot escape it.

 

True Dao goes opposite, not by balancing, but by merging dualities into One.

 

Think about "power" and "weakness": our Shen-spirit is weak by default, our life force Qi is strong by default. This is the real duality in Dao teaching.

[GrandmasterP]

Just when we thought it was safe to go back into the water...this....

 

"Canadian Legislative Bijuralism:

An expression of Legal Duality"

 

There just HAD to be one somewhere!

 

Edited July 15, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Trunk]

1. heavy / lofty

There are denser, heavier energies that we'd refer to as relatively "yin".

There are more expansive, loftier energies that we'd refer to as relatively "yang".

My observation is that the fundamental concept of yin~yang gets distorted willy~nilly in pop-Taoist culture. Bob Flaws has written a book called Statements of Fact in Traditional Chinese Medicine that contains pith aphorisms of fact that Chinese medical students often memorize. It has a section on yin and yang (and various other terms that we toss around casually) and is a worth while read. (It is not intended as an esoteric consciousness treatise.)

 

[Trunk]

Ok, so say you're talking about the consciousness meaning of non-duality? ... identity shifts to "unity", "oneness".

What are the mechanisms within the human form that produce the experience of life within subject / object split?

... and how do those shift such that a person experiences oneness?

[Marblehead]

Ok, so say you're talking about the consciousness meaning of non-duality? ... identity shifts to "unity", "oneness".

What are the mechanisms within the human form that produce the experience of life within subject / object split?

... and how do those shift such that a person experiences oneness?

WoW! Seems you want to get serious here. Hehehe.

 

My understanding at the moment is:

 

When we are born we are in unity, oneness. A baby does not know a difference between itself, its mother or the toy it plays with.

 

I think it is when we attain self-awareness we also lose our oneness, our unity with all things. Self-awareness separates baby from mother and from the toy.

 

This is, IMO, why Chuang Tzu tells us to return to the state of the new-born babe. So that we can once again experience this unity. This would be a state of non-duality.

[manitou]

Ok, so say you're talking about the consciousness meaning of non-duality? ... identity shifts to "unity", "oneness".

What are the mechanisms within the human form that produce the experience of life within subject / object split?

... and how do those shift such that a person experiences oneness?

 

A simple metaphor is an octopus. In duality, each of the tentacles think they're independent, separate from each other; not realizing that they're all the same octopus.

 

the mechanism, IMO, is the 'going into self' process and removing the distortions of our acquired personality. The real stuff lies underneath, the I Am - the I Am of me is the same as the I Am of you.

[Silent Answers]

Just when we thought it was safe to go back into the water...this....

 

"Canadian Legislative Bijuralism:

An expression of Legal Duality"

 

There just HAD to be one somewhere!

 

Hahahaha you're killing it lately! Might want to report me for "like" harassment.

[manitou]

Hahahaha you're killing it lately! Might want to report me for "like" harassment.

 

The man does have a way with words, doesn't he?

[Daeluin]

Separation

[silent thunder]

illusion of separation

[Daeluin]

illusion of duality

[Anoesjka]

Even though I'm not a Taoist, at least not that I know of, I've been pondering about duality for about twenty years. I simply couldn't understand why half of the universe seemed "bad" and the other half "good". Then, one day it struck me, it's a very simple truth, but since I'm a simple person, it seems to work for me.

 

What seems good and advantageous, may not be that at all. It may be good in the short term, for the ego, but it may hurt others. It may even hurt other species. Or even the whole planet. We don't know that, our monkeyminds simply can't or won't see that far ahead.

 

What seems bad and evil, on the other hand, may prove to be indispensable.

 

Take the virus. It has been with us, living complex creatures, for the whole of evolution. Yet it is so simple, you can't even call it alive. Still, it's the (or a) motor that drives evolution to create ever more complexity and explore new ways it wouldn't have done without the stimulus of the arms race with the virus.

 

So you see, duality is a construct of our insufficient apprehension and as such does not exist.

 

Sorry if I have stated the obvious with this.

[Marblehead]

Even though I'm not a Taoist, ...

I forgive you for that.