What exactly is the mind and where is it located ?

[TaoMaster]

frist lets see what the traditional defition as definded in a dictionary .

 

take a look http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mind

 

do we really have a mind ? or do we just create thoughts and vanish them when we no longer need them around.

 

Where is this so called mind located ? In the brain ? Do thoughts come from the brain ? or do they come from life , the spiritual being ?.

 

im not gong to ridicule , bash or supress anyones answers so please feel free to be uninhibited

 

 

[silent thunder]

For me, the mind is a process of consciousness, it's not contained within the brain or the body, rather the mind operates as a field of awareness and interacts with the brain and the body. Although the mind can be affected by the body and by physical conditions, these are not a precursor for it. I get the sense the brain and body are tuning devices that help focus certain aspects of mind, but do not create it.

 

My further suspicion is that mind is a magnetic field in nature, this is backed up by a couple studies done in Russia and Germany post WWII where they were trying to discover where memories are stored in the brain. In one particular process, a researcher taught rats to walk a maze, then would systematically burn sections of the brain and release the rat into the maze again. His findings were surprising, he could destroy so much of the rats' brains that their bodies would stop functioning correctly, but they could still drag themselves through the maze, memory being unaffected.

 

They then applied strong magnetic fields and the rats were lost.

[Daeluin]

Hello TaoMaster, thank you for the opportunity to answer such a strongly posed question.

 

What exactly is the mind.........

 

Recently had a thread about the "dual cultivation of body and mind". One of the main ideas there was to bring them both into balance.

 

In a commentary on taoist classics of internal alchemy I've been reading, it speaks of.... well I suppose it could be considered the physical body and the thinking mind, as opposed to the life-force-and-essence-of-existence-of-the-body and the mind-that-is-one-with-all. The physical body and thinking mind are said to originate from these other descriptions of body and mind, which in turn are a manifestation of the conception and birth process.

 

As for what exactly the mind is and where is it located.... what an important question. We sure like to think things have a set-in-stone absolute fixed place. But the one unchanging facet of reality seems to be change itself. At least my mind is always changing, and I think where it is changes too.

 

For a few years I've been learning tai-chi (among other things) from a teacher. One of the main techniques we use is resting the mind on the breath, and to do this we focus our mind to our lower abdominal area. Otherwise... at least my mind likes staying wrapped up in its many cycles of thinking.

 

The lower abdominal area (to avoid attachment to overly specific terms, for the benefit of the point of the discussion) is where the denser types of Chi like to settle, and these denser types of Chi are more related to the "life-force-and-essence-of-existence of the body" from above. The breath is between the mind and this denser type of body energy, so when we focus our intention at where the denser energy likes to settle, we help mix together the mind energy and the body energy, using the breath as a go-between.

 

So... after several years of practicing this, I've noticed some really interesting effects upon what I used to consider my mind, and now consider to be my "thinking mind". It really helped me to have my teacher's guidance with this, as my mind had been (and often still is) very eager to trap itself in patterns of constant thinking, as opposed to doing the work of non-thinking.

 

Why non-thinking? Well.... at first I set my intention down to the lower abdomen and focus on the breathing. After a while I am able to relax and the lighter, fire-like Chi of my mind has been mixed in with the denser, water-like Chi of my body that a sort of balance has been achieved and my mind doesn't immediately go back to thinking.

 

When this happens something interesting occurs. I begin to be more sensitive of my heard. My head is now more clear and empty.... but I begin to notice that when thoughts pop into my head, they actually come from changes in my heart! Of all places, who would have thought!

 

Thus I started discovering that my emotions and my thoughts are all connected. My emotions will manifest as feelings and my mind interprets them, and sometimes certain complex feelings will have a whole history and will trigger memories in my brain that unleash whole cycles of never ending thought patterns, only to be compounded by more thought patterns whenever my heart feels new information.

 

I suppose it's complicated to explain to someone, if that person hasn't done some similar explorations - I'm not saying you don't, just for the benefit of any readers to whom this is getting to be a bit of a stretch.

 

But in any case, I sorta understand the heart-mind connection to be sorta like this:

• The brain/mind receives all these neural signals sent by the eyes, ears, and other senses.
• The mind naturally processes these bits of information.
• The heart energetically feels this information and reacts to it with the emotions.
• The brain then processes the reaction of the heart.

Here is where I think it gets complicated. The human mind likes to make attachments. "The way I felt after she slapped me sucked. She slapped me after I said I didn't like the way the dress looked. Better not say that again, I don't want to be slapped again." The attachment might be made... and even though both the heart and the brain/mind might be a bit confused and feeling a bit unresolved - Didn't she want me to tell her the truth? - the next time this situation occurs the attachment is used to respond to the situation instead of attempting to process the confusing feelings that might still remain.

 

And so we go through life making attachments based on what our brain-mind decides works best for us in most situations, and we start stock-piling these attachments.... and begin to really separate the brain-mind from the heart's role in this decision making process.

 

With me so far? I apologize for using such a long simple explanation for someone who is clearly aware of the Tao. I attempt to humble myself like water that flows to the lowest point for the sake of our new thread here so as to catch any readers new to this way of understanding the mind.

 

So, I am doing this training. I focus my mental intention on the area of the lower abdomen so as to lead the mental Chi there, and so the fire-like Chi of my mind and the water-like energy of my body begin to mix together, and I find my thoughts begin to settle.

 

As I do this type of breathing work, I am also doing slow movements of Tai Chi.

As I work on moving the denser, water-like energy of the body, I am instructed to use this energy to dissolve my body. The physical body begins to dissolve and return to it's original Chi like state. As my body merges with my breath, I feel it expand and contract like ocean waves, slow and powerful, and I move with the weight of the ocean coursing through me. And then I am instructed to dissolve my mind, and as I work on doing so the mind is everywhere and no-where at the same time. There is the ebb and flow of the ocean, and this incredible crystalline clarity of complete awareness of everything all at once. I am told when the mind is dissolved, what is left is the mind of tao. When the human mind stays in charge, there is no room for the mind to absorb and unite with the knowledge of the universe. When the seed of the human mind returns, the mind of tao must remain in charge.

 

But alas, I find it is very difficult to keep the deep and powerful ebb and flow of the ocean merged with the crystalline clarity of the empty yet one mind, as I am not fully dissolved in body or mind, and need to spend more time cultivating in this way.

 

But as I come out of this state, I am distinctly aware of how the clarity of my mind only has thoughts after the Chi changes in the area of the chest, the heart. I am aware of how the Chi of my mind has now settled to embrace the whole area of my head and chest, but is actually moving upwards to go back to it's habit of resting in the head. And so I deliberately pull it back down with my intention, and as I stabilize this, I am aware of my head only a processing and sensing unit, and my heart as a something more than just a feeling unit. I am aware that my heart is connected to something deeper, a oneness somewhere that knows everything without thinking, and I am aware of my own unique shape as separate from this oneness, and this is part of my unique self-nature. Alas, I recall a session with an energy healer whom told me I carry the Chi of my mind all up and around my head like a cloud, rather than inside of my body. And I realize the more time I spend thinking, the more I cause mind Chi to leak out of my head and reform this cloud. And then oh how difficult it is to return to that state of being in my body again.

 

Please forgive me for this very long answer to your question, TaoMaster. These are only words from my own humble and biased experience, and undoubtedly others and perhaps your self will need to add illumination to any hints of truth they may contain.

[Marblehead]

I like to think of the mind as being the brain as well as all inputs to it which includes the entire nervous system. IMO, it's not just conscious thought but detectors of what is happening with our body.

[Rara]

frist lets see what the traditional defition as definded in a dictionary .

 

take a look http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mind

 

do we really have a mind ? or do we just create thoughts and vanish them when we no longer need them around.

 

Where is this so called mind located ? In the brain ? Do thoughts come from the brain ? or do they come from life , the spiritual being ?.

 

im not gong to ridicule , bash or supress anyones answers so please feel free to be uninhibited

 

 

It cannot be seen, it is just there.

 

Neuroscientists will be able to tell you which parts of the brain are reactive and responsive to particular situations involving the mind though!

 

Thinking of a computer. Hardware runs the software which is read off of a physical disk or even just "data".

 

What is data and where is it located?

[Perceiver]

It's an interesting topic for sure, and so far no single experiment has been able to pinpoint the mind.

 

Real-life examples from acupuncture have hinted at the fact that the mind may be more embedded in the body than we would think. I heard of a guy speaking about how he would prick people in certain places in the body, and then old memories would come up.

 

Maybe the mind is a magnetic field with its strongest concentration in our body and head (but perhaps with connection points to a vast infinite unknown)

[joeblast]

Are we talking about the cpu or are we talking about the awareness?

 

Neural noise creates random thought - many logical processing loops in the brain that are "part of the decision making process" but that also is what winds up manifesting this thought stream energy.

[Wu Ming Jen]

I looked for my mind and found nothing,now I have pacified your mind for you. The mind I can find is a joke and utterly stupid only when mind is peaceful and tranquil does true awareness arise.

 

That is when I discovered how mind is the filter that does not allow one to see the celestial design. the mind that is not unified will cause wars and unleash actions that bring great harm to humanity.

 

So in my opinion the 1% with unified mind, awareness and understanding have a very important job to do to save the world from humans with the worst disease ever known ...... THE DIVIDED MIND.

[Stosh]

I figure a mind , is an artifact of certain sorts of complex configurations-distributions of interacting matter. Build a brain , have another mind,, ( they get called babies ordinarily)

[TaoMaster]

Hello TaoMaster, thank you for the opportunity to answer such a strongly posed question.

 

What exactly is the mind.........

 

Recently had a thread about the "dual cultivation of body and mind". One of the main ideas there was to bring them both into balance.

 

In a commentary on taoist classics of internal alchemy I've been reading, it speaks of.... well I suppose it could be considered the physical body and the thinking mind, as opposed to the life-force-and-essence-of-existence-of-the-body and the mind-that-is-one-with-all. The physical body and thinking mind are said to originate from these other descriptions of body and mind, which in turn are a manifestation of the conception and birth process.

 

As for what exactly the mind is and where is it located.... what an important question. We sure like to think things have a set-in-stone absolute fixed place. But the one unchanging facet of reality seems to be change itself. At least my mind is always changing, and I think where it is changes too.

 

For a few years I've been learning tai-chi (among other things) from a teacher. One of the main techniques we use is resting the mind on the breath, and to do this we focus our mind to our lower abdominal area. Otherwise... at least my mind likes staying wrapped up in its many cycles of thinking.

 

The lower abdominal area (to avoid attachment to overly specific terms, for the benefit of the point of the discussion) is where the denser types of Chi like to settle, and these denser types of Chi are more related to the "life-force-and-essence-of-existence of the body" from above. The breath is between the mind and this denser type of body energy, so when we focus our intention at where the denser energy likes to settle, we help mix together the mind energy and the body energy, using the breath as a go-between.

 

So... after several years of practicing this, I've noticed some really interesting effects upon what I used to consider my mind, and now consider to be my "thinking mind". It really helped me to have my teacher's guidance with this, as my mind had been (and often still is) very eager to trap itself in patterns of constant thinking, as opposed to doing the work of non-thinking.

 

Why non-thinking? Well.... at first I set my intention down to the lower abdomen and focus on the breathing. After a while I am able to relax and the lighter, fire-like Chi of my mind has been mixed in with the denser, water-like Chi of my body that a sort of balance has been achieved and my mind doesn't immediately go back to thinking.

 

When this happens something interesting occurs. I begin to be more sensitive of my heard. My head is now more clear and empty.... but I begin to notice that when thoughts pop into my head, they actually come from changes in my heart! Of all places, who would have thought!

 

Thus I started discovering that my emotions and my thoughts are all connected. My emotions will manifest as feelings and my mind interprets them, and sometimes certain complex feelings will have a whole history and will trigger memories in my brain that unleash whole cycles of never ending thought patterns, only to be compounded by more thought patterns whenever my heart feels new information.

 

I suppose it's complicated to explain to someone, if that person hasn't done some similar explorations - I'm not saying you don't, just for the benefit of any readers to whom this is getting to be a bit of a stretch.

 

But in any case, I sorta understand the heart-mind connection to be sorta like this:

• The brain/mind receives all these neural signals sent by the eyes, ears, and other senses.
• The mind naturally processes these bits of information.
• The heart energetically feels this information and reacts to it with the emotions.
• The brain then processes the reaction of the heart.

Here is where I think it gets complicated. The human mind likes to make attachments. "The way I felt after she slapped me sucked. She slapped me after I said I didn't like the way the dress looked. Better not say that again, I don't want to be slapped again." The attachment might be made... and even though both the heart and the brain/mind might be a bit confused and feeling a bit unresolved - Didn't she want me to tell her the truth? - the next time this situation occurs the attachment is used to respond to the situation instead of attempting to process the confusing feelings that might still remain.

 

And so we go through life making attachments based on what our brain-mind decides works best for us in most situations, and we start stock-piling these attachments.... and begin to really separate the brain-mind from the heart's role in this decision making process.

 

With me so far? I apologize for using such a long simple explanation for someone who is clearly aware of the Tao. I attempt to humble myself like water that flows to the lowest point for the sake of our new thread here so as to catch any readers new to this way of understanding the mind.

 

So, I am doing this training. I focus my mental intention on the area of the lower abdomen so as to lead the mental Chi there, and so the fire-like Chi of my mind and the water-like energy of my body begin to mix together, and I find my thoughts begin to settle.

 

As I do this type of breathing work, I am also doing slow movements of Tai Chi.

As I work on moving the denser, water-like energy of the body, I am instructed to use this energy to dissolve my body. The physical body begins to dissolve and return to it's original Chi like state. As my body merges with my breath, I feel it expand and contract like ocean waves, slow and powerful, and I move with the weight of the ocean coursing through me. And then I am instructed to dissolve my mind, and as I work on doing so the mind is everywhere and no-where at the same time. There is the ebb and flow of the ocean, and this incredible crystalline clarity of complete awareness of everything all at once. I am told when the mind is dissolved, what is left is the mind of tao. When the human mind stays in charge, there is no room for the mind to absorb and unite with the knowledge of the universe. When the seed of the human mind returns, the mind of tao must remain in charge.

 

But alas, I find it is very difficult to keep the deep and powerful ebb and flow of the ocean merged with the crystalline clarity of the empty yet one mind, as I am not fully dissolved in body or mind, and need to spend more time cultivating in this way.

 

But as I come out of this state, I am distinctly aware of how the clarity of my mind only has thoughts after the Chi changes in the area of the chest, the heart. I am aware of how the Chi of my mind has now settled to embrace the whole area of my head and chest, but is actually moving upwards to go back to it's habit of resting in the head. And so I deliberately pull it back down with my intention, and as I stabilize this, I am aware of my head only a processing and sensing unit, and my heart as a something more than just a feeling unit. I am aware that my heart is connected to something deeper, a oneness somewhere that knows everything without thinking, and I am aware of my own unique shape as separate from this oneness, and this is part of my unique self-nature. Alas, I recall a session with an energy healer whom told me I carry the Chi of my mind all up and around my head like a cloud, rather than inside of my body. And I realize the more time I spend thinking, the more I cause mind Chi to leak out of my head and reform this cloud. And then oh how difficult it is to return to that state of being in my body again.

 

Please forgive me for this very long answer to your question, TaoMaster. These are only words from my own humble and biased experience, and undoubtedly others and perhaps your self will need to add illumination to any hints of truth they may contain.

ok got it . thank you . no need to forgive . there was never any problem . Ya that was a long post . good for you .

 

well we can both agree we have thoughts, but are thoughts the mind ?

 

we can knowingly produce thoughts and vanish them as instantly as they were created.

 

many say the mind is in the brain but when I leave my body , my thoughts go with me outside of the body and brain. So I can rule out the brain as a source of the mind. The brain seems like its just a hub of sorts that the nervous system is plunged into . A place for life to attach to in some way and control the body like humans control a car.

[silent thunder]

I've long had the experience that my brain tunes into my mind the way my radio tunes into stations.

[Wu Ming Jen]

Mind has no physical location, so we enter the non physical just like the energies in the body like vitality, energy and spirit being no physical location. we are born with these energies without doing any thing.. The formless realm is truly spiritual. Spiritual is non physical, material being things that have a location. We can change our mind.

[deci belle]

It is the source of your selfless aware essential nature; it has no location.

 

People habitually come to stasis in terms of a very small self-reflective aspect of intellectualism and assume that mind is relative to the self that exists by virtue of a capacity to engage in self-reflection (psychological activity).

 

The totality of selfless human being is a very small frequency of perceptivity comprising the unfathomable mystery of awareness.

 

Most people go through life thinking that the limited spectrum of conscious awareness they utilize by thought constitutes being, which is correct~ by default, that is. The fact is that it has never existed. Mind has no origination. It is unattributable.

 

Most people never realize that nonpsychological open awareness is the organism's true venue in terms of the capacity of the being that is going to die, and that the intellectual apparatus has only usurped the identity of the totality of impersonal awareness available to the enlightening function of an individual's impersonal nature which is the same as the all things not to mention the homeland of nothing whatsoever.

 

How could it have a location?

 

In other words, what thinks, thinks its identity is absolute, and this is the fallacy which the source of all the wisdom traditions of this planet categorically voids in terms of sudden realization of one's selfless aware essential nature.

 

Mind is the source of the individual's natural spiritual capacity, which is awareness. The self-reflective function is only that which facilitates the most mundane needs of the being that is going to die— whose perceptive scope should concurrently be operating fluidly in a state of awareness of the totality of its selfless being that cannot die since its light is uncreated.

 

The light of mind has no location.

[TaoMaster]

It is the source of your selfless aware essential nature; it has no location.

 

People habitually come to stasis in terms of a very small self-reflective aspect of intellectualism and assume that mind is relative to the self that exists by virtue of a capacity to engage in self-reflection (psychological activity).

 

The totality of selfless human being is a very small frequency of perceptivity comprising the unfathomable mystery of awareness.

 

Most people go through life thinking that the limited spectrum of conscious awareness they utilize by thought constitutes being, which is correct~ by default, that is. The fact is that it has never existed. Mind has no origination. It is unattributable.

 

Most people never realize that nonpsychological open awareness is the organism's true venue in terms of the capacity of the being that is going to die, and that the intellectual apparatus has only usurped the identity of the totality of impersonal awareness available to the enlightening function of an individual's impersonal nature which is the same as the all things not to mention the homeland of nothing whatsoever.

 

How could it have a location?

 

In other words, what thinks, thinks its identity is absolute, and this is the fallacy which the source of all the wisdom traditions of this planet categorically voids in terms of sudden realization of one's selfless aware essential nature.

 

Mind is the source of the individual's natural spiritual capacity, which is awareness. The self-reflective function is only that which facilitates the most mundane needs of the being that is going to die— whose perceptive scope should concurrently be operating fluidly in a state of awareness of the totality of its selfless being that cannot die since its light is uncreated.

 

The light of mind has no location.

as per the definition its as if the body and spiritul beingness aka life, are being merged into one thing.

 

confusing for sure.

 

as far as im concerned there is no TRUE mind, only life and considerations . these are the two elements that bring about what we see hear feel touch and smell in the universe. a universe created by life by the way of considerations.

 

its can happen very fast or slow and it can be known or not known ,Only life the creator of all things can fully know or fully not know.

 

if only things that exist+ can be known+ ( including the thing called consideration, then by the law of duailty, all things that are not known- by life do not exist-.

 

it doesnt get more basic than that .

 

seperation of life from the physical contructs is what many know as out of body awareness+.

merging life with the physical universe constructs is whats known as the mind-

[ChiDragon]

When I am thinking, I felt and only felt that my mind is inside my head and nowhere else. I don't feel it in my chest nor in my abdomen.

[Mark Foote]

many say the mind is in the brain but when I leave my body , my thoughts go with me outside of the body and brain. So I can rule out the brain as a source of the mind. The brain seems like its just a hub of sorts that the nervous system is plunged into . A place for life to attach to in some way and control the body like humans control a car.

 

That the senses are involved in the experience of self is the conclusion of scientists Olaf Blanke and Christine Mohr. In their research, they have found that the tactil-proprioceptive-kinesthetic, visual, and vestibular senses are crucial: these senses appear to give rise not just to sensations connected with the physical body, but to an actual feeling of the existence of a self. Blanke and Moore made their conclusion through the study of a particular kind of out-of-body experience called heautoscopy (or HAS):

 

 

"It might thus be argued that, HAS is not only an experience characterized by the reduplification of one's body, but also by a reduplification of one's self. As strikingly reported by Brugger et al. the high risk of suicide during this terrifying experience cannot be overstated as some of these HAS-patients try by all means to reestablish their unitary self."

 

(Out-of-body experience, heautoscopy, and autoscopic hallucination of neurological origin: Implications for neurocognitive mechanisms of corporeal awareness and self consciousness, Brain Research Reviews 5 (2 5) 184-199)

 

 

The tactil-proprioceptive-kinesthetic and vestibular senses are closely involved with the perception of a person's physical location in space; the visual sense is tightly connected to both of these senses, and can reset the perception of location.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a lot of the literature of Taoism and martial arts makes reference to a "heart-mind" (interesting, Daeluin!). There's talk of keeping the mind with the chi (at least Cheng Man-Ching mentions this as a worth-while thing).

 

Here's part of a conversation I had in the comment thread of Brad Warner's Hardcore Zen blog:

 

"mf (that's me):

 

mb, try something for me, please. If you are seated, after you read this close your eyes, and see if you can register where your awareness is in your body.

 

Ok, now see if you can add a sense of motion forward and backward at the location of awareness. What happened to the location of awareness?

 

For me this is effective, but I have a lot of training in connection with the induction of trance through relaxation in conjunction with inhalation and exhalation, so I don't know if you will experience what I experience.

 

 

mb:

 

Hmm... I tried your suggestion and it had some kind of tangible imaginative effect that's hard to describe. But now I get the sense you are applying these terms more to subtle (energy) body orientation than to physical?

 

 

mf:

 

mb, thanks for giving it a shot. I'm always interested to hear.

 

Right away you will probably come to a relationship between motion at the sacrum, regularly initiated by the psoas rocking the pelvis as it slides over the front corners, and the location of awareness. The action of the obturators to hammock the hips from the pelvis and allow a turning motion in the action of the sartorius, the gluts, the tensors, and the piriformis may cross your mind, the weight of the body "with no part left out" may focus from the lower front of the abdomen across the PC's to the tailbone (and up the spine to the head bones), the surface of the skin may come forward.

 

Or not.

 

On some level it's just where I am, and a distinction of the senses that comes of its own accord.

 

 

mb:

 

Well, it all seems a bit esoteric, even though I do recognize the muscle names you cite from having looked at several yoga anatomy books and I know their general locations within the body. ...As to "adding motion" to the "location of awareness", my experience yesterday in that little exercise was that the "location of awareness" kind of expanded in its internally-perceived "size". Beyond that, I'm not sure what you're onto-- I know it has much more meaning and specificity to you. I was just trying to get you to explain what the "pitch, roll and yaw" apply to since we aren't airplanes or boats. And you seem to be referring to those motions in relation to the muscles that come into play around the sacrum and how that affects the "location of awareness". All right, enough for now.

 

 

mf:

 

I can see that. What happens if you allow for movement in the sense of location?

 

 

mb:

 

Maybe that "sense of location" can be perceived as bobbing around those 3 axes of movement in a kind of quasi-physical sense, just as an airplane moves through air or a boat through water. That's my vague sense of it. I really don't know what your definition of "allow for movement" is. And I don't want to tie my mind in knots trying to come up with some kind of discombobulated intellectual understanding either, so I'll just let it percolate.

 

 

mf:

 

What you are describing is what I experience, as well.

 

Here is something from my notes of December, 2012 that I hope will make sense to you on the basis of your experience; this is "humbleone" from "The Tao Bums", talking about using the exercise to get back to sleep:

 

"I woke up at 4:30 AM, after a quick drink of water. returned to bed and tried your practice.

 

I hope I did it correctly, I was somewhat surprised that my mind moved around quite a bit. not fast, but in slow motion the awareness would shift, from left cheek to right side of torso etc. The end result was a light sleep state, but I was glued to the bed and then woke up exactly at 6AM, feeling refreshed like I had a complete 8 hours of sleep."

 

Clearly the context in that case was falling asleep, humbleone was having difficulty waking up and being unable to get back to sleep. He was actually able to get back to sleep consistently with this practice (allowing movement in the sense of location). I asked him to try it in the daytime (with his eyes open), and he discovered what he described as a sense of peace when he did.

 

What's the significance in zazen? The sense of location and the three motions there help me to discover the stretch I'm in at the moment, so I can relax particular activity. That helps. When I'm relaxed, I fall awake the way humbleone fell asleep, everything enters in with nothing left out and the place where I am sits.'

 

(from here)

 

So that's about the location of "Mind", as they say in the Zen literature, which is the sense of self that is associated with proprioception and equalibrioception (the vestibular organ) per Blanke and Moore and also involves the sense of gravity (my two cents, but the otoliths are intimate with the vestibular organs).

 

Another bit, just to make clear about "Mind":

 

"... the passage the Sixth Patriarch heard that day in the marketplace was from the Diamond Sutra (hearing which, the Sixth Patriarch was enlightened):

 

'Mind, having no fixed abode, should flow forth.' (Bassui)

 

Here's what I can say about that: if I lose pitch, yaw, and roll where my mind is, my toss misses the garbage can, my food ends up in my lap, and I clank the pots and pans as I wash them.

 

I can look for pitch, yaw, and roll where my mind is, but if I restrain where my mind is, I lose the pitch, yaw, and roll. So I have to allow where my mind is (location) to flow forth. Ah but it's really just being open to my mind flowing forth, for the most part, that keeps the dishes from clanking.

 

I remember Reb Anderson admonishing folks in the zendo not to clank their utensils and dishes as they cleaned them and put them away. He called for everyone to bring their presence of mind to the task at hand, but he left it for everyone to discover on their own how "mind, having no fixed abode, should flow forth" with regard to the dishes."

 

(and that's from here)

Edited July 21, 2014 by Mark Foote

[Marblehead]

When I am thinking, I felt and only felt that my mind is inside my head and nowhere else. I don't feel it in my chest nor in my abdomen.

Just watched a program about the subconscious mind and it seems it plays a much more important role in our life than most are aware of.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Marblehead

[silent thunder]

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/159914.php

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-18779997

 

We have brain cells strewn throughout our body it turns out.

Though that is not the mind to me, it's another way of interacting with mind.

The body is in the mind, not the other way around.

[TaoMaster]

the mind is like you said it was, Its around you 360 but its virtually invisable . Its also very easy to vanish because of its transparent structure. Its kind of an interface with the body . Its on the transparent side of the sprectrum of the

invisable transparent <>solid visable universe. Youre better off without it and just operate as life with a body within the laws of duality.

[silent thunder]

I've gained benefit from thinking less in favor of focusing on sensation and awareness of being/breath.

Thinking posits 20 questions for every answer.

[TaoMaster]

awareness+ and breath+ are the yang+. They came first. when you focus on awarness and breath you focus on all the yangs attributes. thats a good thing . good begets more good , bad begets more bad.

 

get familiar with what the yang is and what the yin is in relation to each other

 

when we love+ someone and they hurt- us we feel worse-

when we hate+ someone and they help+ us we feel better+

 

the above is what ive named a dual sentence package. You can easily learn how to assemble a dual sentence package.

 

this is part 2 of the meditation exercise. It will not be easy to master for those who have not yet mastered part 1 .

 

when you master part 1 and 2 , everything in life will make sence. there will be no question.

 

you will still have the ability to come back to a lower level of awarness but that comes after .

 

emotions are not just some random act . Emotionally we are dictated by the Yang and Yin . The yang and yin dictate everything in the universe.

 

your ability to control self and others will be off the chart when you tune your skills at the game of life.

 

do not resist against the yang and yin ,

 

hormonize with it+....... and your life will be with much positive+ yang pleasure+

fight against and oppose-......... it and your life will be painfully- yin- negative-

 

there is only yang and yin in the universe brough about by life the creator of the universe.

 

when you master this dynamic, you will easily have the awarness ability to be exterior to your physical bosy in present time in a static state. Youll have this ability for the rest of your life as well .

 

practice the yang yin meditation evryday for an hour is all you need to do . Like practing the piano. Just do it . some days will be better because of the law of duailty. anything you do allot of you will get better at and by the law of duality anything you do not do allot of you will get worse at .

 

push the envelop and get a taste of the far side of the yang .

 

the further you go the brighter you get and the more transparent, knowledgable , happier, better , powerful , loveing, and all of the other yang attributes.

 

its just the way it is .

 

this is how to do the meditation exercise every day . its so easy youll have doubts as to its effectness.

 

• get a pencil and paper or use your computer.
• goto a room or location where you can be alone and relaxed.
• make a list of opposites in your own oppinion. Like i have below.
• yang first with opposing arrows then the yin after
• one hour per day
• thats all you do .

latter youll form dual sentences that will vanish lies and illusions and all the other yin attributes .

youll be having a blast too . Theres nothing better in life you can do for yourself and others.

 

+ -

pos><neg

yang ><yin

happy><sad

plus><minus

bright><dull

paradise><hellishness

truth><lie

Reality><illusion

Transparent><solidity

go><stop

UP.><down

fast><slow

wake><sleep

power><weakness

help><hinder

sweet><sour

know><not know

understand><misunderstand

able.><unable

ability><disability

smile><frown

Edited July 22, 2014 by TaoMaster

[Daeluin]

Your cup is overflowing.

[TaoMaster]

with out of body awareness, its not aways easy to see what you are looking for . when you find it you know it.

 

even though the male><female is on the Yin side of the yang yin , she is the most bueatiful woman in my eyes in every way . Somehow her bueaty generates sensations for love happyness admiration awareness ability and all the yang attributes.

 

there is yang sensation and yin sensation. needless to ask which one whould you choose to be close with.? really?

 

the sensations of admiration i have just watching her on you tube never grow old. She is bright young pretty smart glowing similing and countless other yangtributes.

 

[TaoMaster]

Your cup is overflowing.

 

you need bigger cup

 

everything and everyone is where they are because you put them there, including me.

Edited July 22, 2014 by TaoMaster

[Daeluin]

When we listen to our audience and speak to them relative to how they express themselves, we tend to have a better time getting heard by them. When they make comments that don't seem to affect the way we communicate, they tend to walk away because no one likes the feeling of being preached at.

 

A taoist dares not to put themselves above anything else, and in this way is always making their cup bigger, so that it never overflow.

 

I just wanted to help... let you know there's a bit spilling on the floor.