What exactly is the mind and where is it located ?

[Marblehead]

 

you need bigger cup

 

 

Nice come-back. Hehehe.

[GrandmasterP]

Sign on the wall in the guardroom ( cells for naughty soldiers attached) of an infantry depot that I was once stationed in.

 

" This guardroom detail practices Mind over Matter.

We don't Mind.

You don't Matter."

 

 

On topic, whether or not our mind exists, it sure is busy.

I can't think of any cultivation that wasn't designed to 'calm the monkey mind' in one way or another.

Edited July 22, 2014 by GrandmasterP

[Songtsan]

Locations are relative to something else. To describe mind is not it, but mind is certainly as mind does.

 

Back to location. Most systems agree on holographic theory, i.e. holos.

 

All things interexist everywhere at once. Therefore mind is absolutely everywhere. At the same time, it is nowhere whatsoever, because in dualistic modality, locations are relative and thus forever in flux. In duality, the nature of being is constant fluxuation ad infinitum.

 

However, we can generalize.

 

Although every electron exists everywhere in the universe at once, according to dominant quantum physics theorists, they have ordered sets of probability locations.

 

Thus there are tendencies for objects to have seemingly semi-fixed locations. These however are more like nodal points, or places of most highest congregation.

 

In generalization, mind is body. Especially the nervous system, but also co-achieved by various processes as described in the variety of sciences extant today.

 

So mind is all these things, and none.

 

In superficial terms, I would say that mind is for the most part located in the areas of highest 'energetic' activity. This would be the nervous system, co-supported by the physiological structure.

 

Not so simple however, as there is more than one type of mind. Specifically, there are the separate nodal 'points' that represent what are commonly considered the self, as well as the larger aggregate bodymind of the entire collective, i.e. groupmind.

 

This is in essence a linked series of nodal points, creating a web-like structure which circles the planet.

[beyonder]

frist lets see what the traditional defition as definded in a dictionary .

 

take a look http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/mind

 

do we really have a mind ? or do we just create thoughts and vanish them when we no longer need them around.

 

Where is this so called mind located ? In the brain ? Do thoughts come from the brain ? or do they come from life , the spiritual being ?.

 

im not gong to ridicule , bash or supress anyones answers so please feel free to be uninhibited

 

 

Let's consider some particle physics, neurology and biology first.

 

Our bodies and organs are made out of proteins, which are chained and folded amino acid residues. These are considered macromolecules. Both the sequencing of aminoacids and the subsequent folding into a protein is coded by DNA.

 

These amino acids are themselves molecules, and as such, consist of various layers of complexity, as shown by particle physics; molecules consist of atoms, which consist of protons, neutrons (protons and neutrons are nucleïc particles) and electrons. The neutron is made out of two down quarks and one up quark, the proton is made out of two up, one down.

 

One of our organs is the brain, which consists of grey matter (soma's, axons, dendrites) and white matter (glial cell and myalin sheaths). Next to the previous levels of organisation, the brain has a few, which are specific to it; namely neurons, neural networks and functional regions.

 

So, to run down the layers of complexity, discussd so far:

 

quark

nucleus

atom

molecule

macromolecule

organ

body

 

With, on the organ level, the brain, which contains its own levels of organisation:

 

Neuron

Neural network

Region

Brain

Mind

 

Out of this, it's already possible to provide a possible definition; minds are an emergent structure consisting and existing on various levels of complexity, at the same time. As such, minds are psychophysical entities, existing on all the levels I previously discussed, simultaneously.

 

 

On to the phenomenological side. Let's pose the question anew. What is the mind, to itself? This question bares validity from an emergentist standpoint, since the mind in itself constitutes it's own level of organisation, and as such, should be analysed accordingly.

 

The first thing to note is the primacy of experience. The way I experience anything is first and foremost, through my mind. My mind isn't just my thoughts, though they are a part of my being. I perceive the world as sense data in my mind too since those sense data are generated through the interaction of the world with my senses, which send signals through my nerves, spinal cord and brain. I don't actually experience these internal happenings, but rather, their eventual translations into apprehendable phenomena. This isn't an abstraction; there is good proof against naive realism, in the form of various optical illusions (or hallucinogens), which prove phenomenologically that sense data is dependent on brain structure/chemistry. A good, non-intrusive illusion to showcase this is the phi phenomenon:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phi_phenomenon

 

The way we perceive our bodies is likewise phenomenological. This is showcased in such cases as phantom pains and the treatment with a mirror box. The rubber hand illusion also showcases the phenomenological status of our experience of our bodies:

 

 

So, it becomes clear that everything I experience has to be in phenomenological form, for it to make sense to my consciousness. So what is mind, according to this definition? It's the direct experience and active agency of my mind, body and senses/perception.

Edited July 23, 2014 by beyonder

[nestentrie]

Just watched a program about the subconscious mind and it seems it plays a much more important role in our life than most are aware of.

 

I hope that was some deliberate irony there (Doesn't it go that we aren't aware of our subconscious and that is why it's called that? )

Edited July 23, 2014 by nestentrie

[silent thunder]

Asked my son where his mind was...

No where... everywhere... depends.

[Songtsan]

 

The way I experience anything is first and foremost, through my mind.

 

Buddhists would disagree, considering mind itself as a sensory pathway; i.e. the 'sixth sense.' We experience things through something beyond mind, which is eternal. Mind itself is an aggregate construction and thus composed of buildings blocks which can be torn asunder. Beyond mind lies the realm of Being, which is dependent on Nothing. Self existent and causeless.

[Songtsan]

Can you take your mind with you when you die?

 

edit: is this the aim of immortalism?

Edited July 23, 2014 by Reversed

[beyonder]

Buddhists would disagree, considering mind itself as a sensory pathway; i.e. the 'sixth sense.' We experience things through something beyond mind, which is eternal. Mind itself is an aggregate construction and thus composed of buildings blocks which can be torn asunder. Beyond mind lies the realm of Being, which is dependent on Nothing. Self existent and causeless.

 

Oh, I wasn't talking about the apprehending mind. I was talking about how all my direct experiences, which are constituted out of bodily, sensory and thought phenomena, are all generated by my brain and are all in some way "mental" in structure, and as such, part of my psyche (mind). What I'm saying is that my body, sensory perceptions and thoughts are all both res extensa and res cogitans.

Edited July 23, 2014 by beyonder

[Songtsan]

Oh, I wasn't talking about the apprehending mind. I was talking about how all my direct experiences, which are constituted out of bodily, sensory and thought phenomena, are all generated by my brain and are all in some way "mental" in structure, and as such, part of my psyche (mind). What I'm saying is that my body, sensory perceptions and thoughts are all both res extensa and res cogitans.

 

I always thought of the mind as more of a filter, and not a generator. It merely interprets the signals coming in and again passes them through to the reflexive center, just as sense organs do - they are part of a chain of causation. It is not so much an organ of action, as an organ of function. The difference is that it is a programmed function vs. a doer.

 

At times, it seems as if the mind has 'a mind of its own,' but I think that this is not the case. The programming is so subtle and complex, that it has the appearance of self-will, but it is just composed of various negative/positive feedback loops and chains of programs that it appears to have life. Mind is dead....but certainly hard to kill even so.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Reversed

[cihan]

do we really have a mind ? or do we just create thoughts and vanish them when we no longer need them around.

 

Where is this so called mind located ? In the brain ? Do thoughts come from the brain ? or do they come from life , the spiritual being ?.

As one of the blind men describing an elephant in the story, my brew is that :

Mind is the mechanism to play the movie of life.

Everything is in my mind as well as my body and my thoughts describing it, so it cannot be in a certain location of what it creates, it is in everything, and seems to operate from the outside.

Mind creates time and space by playing linear data, records all cumulative impressions, and plays them back with new appearances by using the same directory of collective memories , set of rules and god knows what else.

The good thing is it seems to have an interface which is made available for us humans, which we ignore and choose to be on the passive side, enjoying and contributing with all kinds of negative and positive emotions,

and some of us stir and start to look for the source.

It plays -kind of- still frames with a certain refresh rate, so learn to fiddle with the frequencies via qigong, meditation, prayer, magic etc., and,voila!

you are in the occult business exploring multi-realms still inside the mind, by utilizing higher chakras.

I realize the mind. Logic does not work, as it is also a sub created tool of the mind.

Realization that I am also outside of the mind as well comes from the sense of heart.

Out of it can not be defined or speculated within.

Yet, thank goodness it is realizable.

[Marblehead]

... as well as the larger aggregate bodymind of the entire collective, i.e. groupmind.

 

This is in essence a linked series of nodal points, creating a web-like structure which circles the planet.

This is an interesting concept. Many accept it as valid and a truth. Personally, I don't. I think it is more at wanting to be in agreement with one we respect - very logical without any metaphysics.

[Marblehead]

I hope that was some deliberate irony there (Doesn't it go that we aren't aware of our subconscious and that is why it's called that? )

The irony wasn't intended but it is there, isn't it? Hehehe.I agree, we are not aware of what is in the subconscious until it reveals itself and we say something like, "Where the hell did that thought come from?"

[Stosh]

If youre dreaming , are you aware of your subconscious?

[Michael Sternbach]

Hi,

 

Interesting query... It can be answered in many ways, and all of them are right.

 

To add yet another perspective, the mind is a function of the subtle body which permeates the physical body and extends beyond it. More precisely, there are actually several subtle bodies, or you can say it has several layers: mental, emotional, etc., but let's keep things sweet and simple for the time being. The subtle body interacts with the physical body, thus the mind will be influenced in its functioning by the given physical conditions (such as the intake of a Long Island Ice Tea ).

 

It's important to note that the mind is not connected only with the brain, however, but with the physical body in toto. Emotions and thoughts often have their origin and can be stored in parts of the body far away from the head.

 

Michael

Edited July 23, 2014 by Michael Sternbach

[Seeker of Wisdom]

I would say the mind is a network of psychological processes (feelings, cognition, volition, consciousness), and it has no location.

 

The neural correlates of mental events are located in the brain, but to say that thoughts, emotions etc themselves have a location (aside from 'in' the mind), or especially size, colour, shape, or mass, doesn't seem supported by my experience.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Seeker of Tao

[Michael Sternbach]

If youre dreaming , are you aware of your subconscious?

 

The processes of the conscious mind are linear. The subconscious mind is relying on massive parallel computing, instead. Therefore it's the source of intuition. The conscious mind can't follow it in its functioning, that's why it doesn't see the subconscious.

 

While dreaming, you are not directly aware of your subconscious mind either but you are more receptive to its messages. In the deepest stages of your sleep, when your brain wave frequency is down at delta, you are in fact accessing the non-linear mind directly, but you won't remember it upon awakening.

[Songtsan]

This is an interesting concept. Many accept it as valid and a truth. Personally, I don't. I think it is more at wanting to be in agreement with one we respect - very logical without any metaphysics.

 

As above, so below. Look at the universe in the Grand Scale, and you will see the Microcosmos. Very metaphysical. Very logical.

[deci belle]

Microcosmos. Uh-huh. Even Vmarco wouldn't stoop to such bullshit.

 

Inconceivability is not logical. THAT's logical.

[deci belle]

Reversed is Sontsan, hmmmm? Who else would dare to paraphrase EVERYTHING he reads, then immediately co-opts incorrectly, incompletely AND out of context without the slightest shred of knowledge of the basis on which his plagiarism is founded?

 

Can this one be re-shown the door?

 

Anyone can confound a literalist using terms that consist of whole cloth. This one ought to sell e-books— he's got the vocabulary.

 

Will the mods please confirm Reversed's former alias(es)?

[Michael Sternbach]

As above, so below. Look at the universe in the Grand Scale, and you will see the Microcosmos. Very metaphysical. Very logical.

This is what the art and science of astrology is based on.

[Stosh]

The processes of the conscious mind are linear. The subconscious mind is relying on massive parallel computing, instead. Therefore it's the source of intuition. The conscious mind can't follow it in its functioning, that's why it doesn't see the subconscious.

 

While dreaming, you are not directly aware of your subconscious mind either but you are more receptive to its messages. In the deepest stages of your sleep, when your brain wave frequency is down at delta, you are in fact accessing the non-linear mind directly, but you won't remember it upon awakening.

 

Good answer! This seems to imply that both wake and dream awareness are both conscious , both the result of subconscious calculation which we are unaware of because its "non linear". Now if a person can compute a threat and physiologically react before they are conscious of it, what would be the need for awareness at all?

Could direct awareness of subconscious ever happen?

Edited July 23, 2014 by Stosh

[TaoMaster]

Can you take your mind with you when you die?

 

edit: is this the aim of immortalism?

your ability to generate thought, yes , your mind no .

 

the mind is physical and so are thoughts but they are not the same thing.

 

when we die , and i say this from first hand experience , the mind and body stay together.

 

then we , as life, return to being one with all life again. the 1

 

then a new life form , human body etc is generated by life and the process starts all over .

 

there is no seperate spiritual being that leaves its body and goes and gets a new body and carries on .

 

life inhabits bodys until it dies and then life pulls out and rejoins all life again.

 

i had a bit of a tough time gettng through this conceptual barrier . aka the mind.

 

when i left my body in 1982 for the1st time, it seemed like it was just " my soul" leaving . but that was just a consideraton i had.

 

it wasnt until feb of this year that i was able to vanish my mind . the good thing is that i can put it back and vanish it at will now .

 

its like i have one when i need one and dont when i dont .

 

inmortality is not gonna happen physically and spiritual life is never ending or begining . its outside the law of duality . its the creator of duailty as its first creation. The LOD is basic to the universe and governs the physical and mental universe in every way .

 

 

ok look

 

everything you see around you is just solid thought.

 

the thoughts you generate that many incorectly refer to as the mind will vanish as soon as you take your attention off of the thought. the yin thoughts are painful and solid , the yang thoughts are pleasurable and easily vanished by just taking your attention off of them .

 

you have to manually get the image of a bird , dog , cat or whatever your thought is , to stay in existence . its you who puts the image there and its you who keeps it there or not .

 

life is the same way with the physical universe but it has solid creations and soild opposition to the creations.

 

in the physical world, bowling balls , cars, people, etc, life is doing the same thing but uses physical opposition yin to hold physical things in place , if not for the yin and yang would do its thing and then vanish in an instant . yin slows the process down or prevents it from completing .

 

if i say yes lets go and you say no lets not , its over until a new goal is generated. if its the same goal and the opposition then the same thing will happen .

 

the yang+ is the physical creation by life and the yin- is what opposes the creation to keep in existence. This is what generates time.

 

if you have powerful creation and a little yin the creation wont last long, it'll evaporate the yin complete, and vanish .

 

if you have a little ;ess powerful creation and allot of yin it will not last long, it will evaporate the yang as if it were never there.

 

equal measure of yang and yin will keep in it existence for the longest.

 

if you have more yang youll get more forward motion and more backward motion if you have more yin.

 

equal amounts , no motion . its relitive.

 

the planet we are on is going backwards , counter clockwise. it has more yin than yang. its dieing like we as humans all die too. the planet sarts out small and growns, just like all other life forms. Our planet is a life form .

 

i havnt really looked at this yet in detail but ill get back to you when i do .

 

life is aware of its true nature. this is what amazed me the most when i went 1 with all life .

 

theres only 1 spiritual life and its life . 1 life spiritual being for all life forms in the universe.

 

i never would have even guessed , but when i went 1 with all life , nirvana , i could know and do anything life can do and life is limitless in ability . its able to do anythin and know anything as well as not know anything and not do anything.

 

im not " there " ( nirvana ) right now but i know ill be back soon i know how to get there .

 

i didnt even know what the yang yin was other than a black and white circle until last feb .

 

we can certainly know things weve done in past lives but we dont carry it with us from one life to the next .

 

we just desire and know. its an ability of life . you are life with a body , like me . we are of the same life.

 

Spiritual Life has the ability to not know any thing is choses. it has the ability to lie to itself just we as human life forms do . we ARE that life .

 

you can find all my posts to the TB forum and print them out to make a book .

 

something i just noticed about a happy face and a frown

 

• up+ is a yang+ attribute, a yangtribute.
• down- is a yin- attribute a yintribute.

 

• when were happy we smile and the corners of our mouth and inside eyebrows point up +

so by the law of duality

• when we are sad ( or unhappy ) the corners of our mouth and inside eyebrows point down -

when we are feeling deviouse we get both , a smile with corners up and inside eye brows pointing down .

 

 

life uses the yang to create and the yin to oppose it and keep it in existence.

 

the mind starts at birth and dies when the body does. its all brought about by life .

Edited July 24, 2014 by TaoMaster

[TaoMaster]

subconsciousness is simply life taking action then not taking responsibility for the action it takes.

it brings something into existence and then says , hey it wasnt me .

 

Its sub counciouse. Its a lie and a yintribute.

 

theres nothing life cant do , includuing not knowing it created a thing after it does.

 

Life can know or not know , life can be aware or unaware. It can do these things in any combo it choses.

 

Life creates things to know then and vanishes them to not know them .

 

Things that exsit are the things that we know.

 

If we dont know it , it does not exist. If you choose to beleive otherwise you are just being untrue to yourself.

 

If it exists for another person and not you , then it only exists via the other person as long as the other person exists.

 

When the other person demands it exists when it doesnt exist for you , that does not make it exist any more than there attempt to convince you it does.

 

If you cant see it in present time or in the form of a thought, it does not exist.

 

This may seem insane but its actual truth from the viewpoint of life. The creator of all things that we as human life forms are. Life.

 

When you sit in your room all alone , only the things you know in the room and the sounds you hear "outside" the room exist. Even the smell of bacon and eggs and coffee from the kitchen . Only the smell exists.

 

If life+ can only know+ things that exsit+ ,

 

then by the law of duality

 

things that life does not know- do not exist- .

 

Its the brutal truth but its truth non the less.

if you beleive otherwise you are just imagining the things you once knew existed , still exist .

 

Its lifes way of generating demension.

 

If you are only able+ to do things you can+ do

 

then by the LOD

 

You cant- do the things you are unable- to do .

 

you can use this formula with all the Yang yin words.

 

So basically you me and everyone and thing else is life, 1 life, 1 being. With all the yang and yin abilities and disabilities combined.

 

But from what I know about life, Life is all the Yang abilities combined and limitless with the ability to oppose ( yin ) itself. and it does just that.

 

 

 

[Marblehead]

Have we all lost our mind yet?