What exactly is the mind and where is it located ?

[Marblehead]

WARNING!!! Look at this diagram only if you are strong enough to deal with the truth.

 

http://www.sciencekids.co.nz/pictures/humanbody/humanorgans.html

 

There is no "mind". Sorry.

[goldisheavy]

WARNING!!! Look at this diagram only if you are strong enough to deal with the truth.

 

http://www.sciencekids.co.nz/pictures/humanbody/humanorgans.html

 

There is no "mind". Sorry.

 

Why would I listen to a mindless outburst like that?

 

You say you have no mind? I agree. You are a mindless puppet, just as you have self-defined.

Edited August 14, 2014 by goldisheavy

[TaoMaster]

From Secret of the Golden Flower chapter three:

every thing is where it is and put there when it was.

 

Thoughts are created , held in place and then vanished from existence.

 

Vanished from where they were put and when they were put there.

 

For me its usually in front of me . Like a computer keyboard is put in front of my human eyeballs.

 

life forms are just physical reflections of the 1 spiritual life

 

spiritual Life can see, hear, touch, smell , feel, sence, etc etc and so can our physical life form bodies.

 

My life form has eyes in the front and spiritually i preceive thoughts in the front too.

 

WARNING!!! Look at this diagram only if you are strong enough to deal with the truth.

 

http://www.sciencekids.co.nz/pictures/humanbody/humanorgans.html

 

There is no "mind". Sorry.

you mean its an illusion ? no appoligies needed but thx anyways

Edited August 14, 2014 by TaoMaster

[Brian]

first off to the mods who asked me to use the multi quote feature. I will try but some times I read others posts and dont feel like comentiong on them or replying to them and then latter when re reading them , i have a reply i want to share . its a timing thing but whenever i can, i will most certainly use the multi quote . Unfortunatly this is not one of them so sorry to say ..

 

so in reply to ST

 

light and darkness are in fact the same item like youve mentioned as darkness being a frequency of light we can perceive. YES yove got it .

 

look at light as having a dimmer switch to dim a light bulb.

 

the frequency of light is the highest when the light is the brightest and its viritually off when the frequency is the lowest .

 

when we remove the light dark dual package , theres no light and no dark . Theres nothing.

 

like wise when you remove the darkness , theres only light .

 

light is yang dark is yin .

 

yang always comes first

 

thx for your post

Ummm...

 

That's not consistent with the nature of light or of light bulbs.

 

Darkness is the absence of light. While it is very true that what one perceives as "darkness" is generally a false darkness due to one's limited awareness & perception of "light" but that should not be construed as suggesting darkness is a frequency of light.

[Marblehead]

Why would I listen to a mindless outburst like that?

 

You say you have no mind? I agree. You are a mindless puppet, just as you have self-defined.

You tried to be defensive but could only get offensive.

 

That was not a mindless outburst. It was a display of fact. But I have a brain. You have said you have no brain. Science supports what I have said. Few scientists would support what you have said.

 

Now mellow out. I am sure I am not the first person to ever disagree with you. And I'm sure I won't be the last.

[Marblehead]

you mean its an illusion ? no appoligies needed but thx anyways

Yes, the mind is an illusion. I won't not could I ever apologize for the fact that we have no mind. It is just a word that is used instead of using the proper word "brain". I have many times used the word "mind". But that was only a figure of speech. It is the brain. Really and truely.

[Stosh]

Frequency of light relates to color, not its amplitude.

[Rara]

Thx Rara,It's not an easy question to answer. Like let's say , how old are you or are you a man or a woman or do you live in china or USA. I read so many others posts and articles around the world where others have completely got it misdefined. The word defined is derived from the word definition. From definition we get the word definite and from that word finiteIt's like if I tell you a story about a dog chasing a cat up a tree , and you tell someone the story and they tell someone the story , but the time it gets to the 100th person the story is completely different than how it started out to be . Maybe even the cat chasing the dog up the tree. The current definition of the mind seems to be a combination of spiritual and physical. The word psychology means the study of the spirit but over the years it has degenerated into something that has nothing to do with spirituality . In the USA it's just another way to make a fast buck from others who are in mental pain. Conscious is another word with the same meaning as awareness, correct. Mindful and mindless is another word for careful and careless. Im not one to consider accidents as a true incident . Nor coincidence. Nor subconscious. Subconscious is just not knowing or unaware and these are choices we make . No problem there. Accident and coincidence as well . Same thing. We can act and be unaware of our actions but that does not excuse us from not being responsible for them .I've spent much of my life time being unaware of things I'm aware of now and I'm sure there is allot I'm not aware of that I do today . For me it's more like doing something and not assigning a reason why for doing it and then not knowing I've done it . ( after ) That's how I define subconscious.We can know just as easy as not know We can hate just as easy as we can love We can sleep just as easy as we can be awakeWe can understand just as easy as misunderstandWe can get up just as easy as sit downWe can speak just as easy as we can be silent. Some of us can and some of us can not Some of us want to and some of don't Some of is must and some of us must not.Life is very simple but it becomes complicated and confusing when the definitions are misdefined.

Yes, I was talking to a close friend about this last night. He then came back on the swing to say we still have a mind...because either way, the decision is made. Not "I've made up my brain" or "I've made up my spirit".

 

Therefore, he relates the mind to something that happens within the brain. One feels that he thinks with his head, and feels with his belly (think butterflies in the stomach)

 

The point you raise about psychology's etymology - originally study of spirit. Until it was later acknowledged that there were physical signs that indicated the "psyche" was affected physically.

 

There is has been even more research, even within the last 12 months, that emphasises the brain's role in behaviour.

 

So, mind or no mind, I can't say with any proof that consciousness doesn't route in the brain, because there is enough evidence to indicate that it does. Sure, if the heart stops, we die...but one can still be alive and completely brain dead - unconscious/oblivious to everything around them.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Rara

[Songtsan]

We were just talking about the relationships between emotions and feelings today in a class I was taking. Emotion is the physiological experience, accompanied by various body effects, and feeling is the awareness of said emotion. The feeling is the knowing of it, and then mind takes that knowing and classifies it. This is the not really knowing, but symbolic representation of the knowing.

 

In order to stay in the state of true and direct knowing, mind must be silent, otherwise one is simply knowing mind, not reality.

 

EDIT:

 

Makes me think that emotion corresponds to LDT, feeling to MDT, and cognition to UDT.

 

Models models everywhere, and not a direct knowing of reality to drink.

 

Yet we are directly knowing mind (I think?). Mind is a reality, yet not the external one (dualistically speaking)..

Edited August 14, 2014 by Songtsan

[Rara]

 

Makes me think that emotion corresponds to LDT, feeling to MDT, and cognition to UDT.

 

Fair statement

 

Although messages of "feeling" still get sent to the brain. So even if you say you can feel in the MDT, the brain has to recognise it for it to, well, happen.

[Songtsan]

Fair statement

 

Although messages of "feeling" still get sent to the brain. So even if you say you can feel in the MDT, the brain has to recognise it for it to, well, happen.

 

Feeling is as feeling does though...is this why we are experiencing things dualistically (most of us that is)? We have mind/body splits. Mind is seeing the reflection of reality, yet is also part of it. The mirror that is dust proof suggests unity. So then this is Buddha mind, which was always under the dust. The dust acts as a filter, blocking out or skewing the true light of reality. What is then perceived is a shadow realm, a dream world.

 

And yet!

 

Regardless of how incorrect my perceptions of reality are, they are still neat and enjoyable. I would tend towards believing that as mind approaches clear seeing, Samsara turns into Nirvana. Samsara/Nirvana both composed of the same essence, yet it is an issue of polarity and spinning. Change the spin, and then you win!

 

But!

 

Let us not be attached to bliss. For attachment is a cross to bear, which drives one in ways that, while fair (or foul), might create a disharmonious body state of seeking, hunger, grasping, which shortens the life span by degrees.

 

Seeking ease is a dis-ease.

 

Mind is the culprit of all these things...so I say that mind is the grasper - its tentacles reaching forward and backwards for the root of its misery - ignorance....

 

As ignorance is the root of suffering, and mind's job is to destroy ignorance, it is both our savior and our harbinger of sorrows, for in these paths we tread, hither and wither are we led towards completion through using the very tool which causes us much angst.

 

The beauty of it all is that suffering is also bliss, simply flipped.

[TaoMaster]

Feeling is as feeling does though...is this why we are experiencing things dualistically (most of us that is)? We have mind/body splits. Mind is seeing the reflection of reality, yet is also part of it. The mirror that is dust proof suggests unity. So then this is Buddha mind, which was always under the dust. The dust acts as a filter, blocking out or skewing the true light of reality. What is then perceived is a shadow realm, a dream world.

 

And yet!

 

Regardless of how incorrect my perceptions of reality are, they are still neat and enjoyable. I would tend towards believing that as mind approaches clear seeing, Samsara turns into Nirvana. Samsara/Nirvana both composed of the same essence, yet it is an issue of polarity and spinning. Change the spin, and then you win!

 

But!

 

Let us not be attached to bliss. For attachment is a cross to bear, which drives one in ways that, while fair (or foul), might create a disharmonious body state of seeking, hunger, grasping, which shortens the life span by degrees.

 

Seeking ease is a dis-ease.

 

Mind is the culprit of all these things...so I say that mind is the grasper - its tentacles reaching forward and backwards for the root of its misery - ignorance....

 

As ignorance is the root of suffering, and mind's job is to destroy ignorance, it is both our savior and our harbinger of sorrows, for in these paths we tread, hither and wither are we led towards completion through using the very tool which causes us much angst.

 

The beauty of it all is that suffering is also bliss, simply flipped.

what is the mind and where is it located ?

 

does the mind generate thought ?

 

is the mind aware of things?

 

can it be in control ?

thx for your comments

[goldisheavy]

You tried to be defensive but could only get offensive.

 

That was not a mindless outburst. It was a display of fact. But I have a brain. You have said you have no brain. Science supports what I have said. Few scientists would support what you have said.

 

Now mellow out. I am sure I am not the first person to ever disagree with you. And I'm sure I won't be the last.

 

I didn't mean to offend, although I don't really care about your emotions either way (I feel the same way about my toaster). What I was trying to do was to illustrate the consequences of your ideas.

 

If you self-define as a mindless machine, then please don't be surprised when you get treated as a mindless machine. That's all I am saying. In other words, don't be surprised when the world begins treating you in a way that's consistent with your own self-image. That's all I was trying to say.

 

If this offends you, then what you are really offended by is your creation. Don't break the mirror just because you see a booger in it.

Edited August 15, 2014 by goldisheavy

[TaoMaster]

its just an analogy as it relates to the law of duality.

 

as far as light bulbs go?

 

AC stands for alternating current . it goes back and forth with a rate of frequency . It uses the black and white wires and a ground which connects to white like my avatar

 

heres a reference

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current

http://rockawayrecycling.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/romex-wire-150x150.png

http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/semester2/d21_dimmer.html

 

i use to be an electrical contractor . about 30 years or so

 

now im a master of the tao .

 

Ummm...

That's not consistent with the nature of light or of light bulbs.

Darkness is the absence of light. While it is very true that what one perceives as "darkness" is generally a false darkness due to one's limited awareness & perception of "light" but that should not be construed as suggesting darkness is a frequency of light.

 

i liked your post , made me laugh . the one with the human body but no mind anywhere to be found.

Yes, the mind is an illusion. I won't not could I ever apologize for the fact that we have no mind. It is just a word that is used instead of using the proper word "brain". I have many times used the word "mind". But that was only a figure of speech. It is the brain. Really and truely.

 

did he hit a home run of foul ball ? Im pretty sure most people that i know of , in american anyway, consider the mind in the brain . its pretty well taught that way from the first day of life and all the way to the end. I used to consider having a mind too

Yes, I was talking to a close friend about this last night. He then came back on the swing to say we still have a mind...because either way, the decision is made. Not "I've made up my brain" or "I've made up my spirit".

Therefore, he relates the mind to something that happens within the brain. One feels that he thinks with his head, and feels with his belly (think butterflies in the stomach)

The point you raise about psychology's etymology - originally study of spirit. Until it was later acknowledged that there were physical signs that indicated the "psyche" was affected physically.

There is has been even more research, even within the last 12 months, that emphasises the brain's role in behaviour.

So, mind or no mind, I can't say with any proof that consciousness doesn't route in the brain, because there is enough evidence to indicate that it does. Sure, if the heart stops, we die...but one can still be alive and completely brain dead - unconscious/oblivious to everything around them.

 

so called emotions are also goverened by the law of duality , like evrything in the universe.

 

example

 

when we really love+ someone and really care+ about them and they get hurt- we feel bad- about it

when we really hate- someone and really dont care- about them and they get hurt- we feel good+ about it

 

when someone we love goes away we feel bad

when someone we hate goes away we feel good

 

its pretty simple once you get the hang of it .

 

notice the plus and minus ?

 

theses feeling have nothin to do with education , being raised by parents a certain way , if you are male of female or anything other than the LOD

 

emotions may seem to be mental but are in fact very physical and govererned by the law of duality , Yang+ and yin-

We were just talking about the relationships between emotions and feelings today in a class I was taking. Emotion is the physiological experience, accompanied by various body effects, and feeling is the awareness of said emotion. The feeling is the knowing of it, and then mind takes that knowing and classifies it. This is the not really knowing, but symbolic representation of the knowing.

 

In order to stay in the state of true and direct knowing, mind must be silent, otherwise one is simply knowing mind, not reality.

 

EDIT:

 

Makes me think that emotion corresponds to LDT, feeling to MDT, and cognition to UDT.

 

Models models everywhere, and not a direct knowing of reality to drink.

 

Yet we are directly knowing mind (I think?). Mind is a reality, yet not the external one (dualistically speaking)..

 

yes , if you step on a nail barefooted an electrical message is sent to the brain , Thats what its for . its the Hub for the whole body . Its at the top and centered. The brain has a very specific purpose and has two sides yang and yin .

 

one side for each side of the body

Fair statement

Although messages of "feeling" still get sent to the brain. So even if you say you can feel in the MDT, the brain has to recognise it for it to, well, happen.

Edited August 15, 2014 by TaoMaster

[Marblehead]

I didn't mean to offend, although I don't really care about your emotions either way (I feel the same way about my toaster). What I was trying to do was to illustrate the consequences of your ideas.

I don't care about my emotions either. They come and go whenever there is a cause for the effect.

 

If you self-define as a mindless machine, then please don't be surprised when you get treated as a mindless machine. That's all I am saying. In other words, don't be surprised when the world begins treating you in a way that's consistent with your own self-image. That's all I was trying to say.

Okay. You said it poorly the first time. You did good this time. Mindless machine? You are joking, Right? I have a brain. I am very good at determining what is good for me and what is not. (Useful/useless)

 

And although you are pointing this statement at me wrongly I do agree with what you are saying. Just because I call "brain" what you call "mind" doesn't make a rat's ass difference as to how we conduct ourself in the real world.

 

And BTW: I have no self-image.

 

If this offends you, then what you are really offended by is your creation. Don't break the mirror just because you see a booger in it.

No, you need to work a lot harder than that to offend me. I said "you" were getting offensive. And going back, it was you who were offended and this shows by the response you made to my post. I simply stated a fact. Some can't handle truths.

 

And BTW: my mirror reflects back, without blemish, what has been presented to it. There is no truer truth than the truth unblemished. The truth, neither added to nor subtracted from.

 

"Mind" is simply a word created to explain what could not be explained when it was created. "Mind" is a redundant word because we already have the word "brain" to define what is being spoken to when the word "mind" is used. Someone added something. This tarnished the truth.

[Marblehead]

its just an analogy as it relates to the law of duality.

 

as far as light bulbs go?

 

AC stands for alternating current . it goes back and forth with a rate of frequency . It uses the black and white wires and a ground which connects to white like my avatar

Hehehe. The color of the insulation doesn't matter. White could be orange and black could be purple. Ground is usually green but it could be pink but regardless ground is redundant. That is because you already have source (white) and return (black). Yeah, white (yang) and black (Yin). Energy. I sometimes call it "Chi".

 

And then you have DC which is direct current rather than alternating current. But you still have source and return.

 

And guess what! Source and return are the same thing - Tao.

 

Yes, dualities exist whether we like it or not. When One gave birth to Two dualities came into existence and have been ever-present ever since the beginning and will continue to be so until the end.

[Songtsan]

what is the mind and where is it located ?

 

does the mind generate thought ?

 

is the mind aware of things?

 

can it be in control ?

thx for your comments

 

Stick to the topic? sorry!

 

 

I would say that nothing is generated ('generate' meaning to cause to come about) out of nowhere - everything is co-created, co-originated...so thoughts are a result of an end chain of causation, which is cyclical and circular change of energy/matter processes.

 

I don't think mind is capable of awareness - that is the job of the seer. The seer is not mind, instead beyond it and not part of causation, but merely wrapped up in it temporarily...

[Marblehead]

I would say that nothing is generated ('generate' meaning to cause to come about) out of nowhere - everything is co-created, co-originated...so thoughts are a result of an end chain of causation, which is cyclical and circular change of energy/matter processes.

I wanted to like the post but limit it to only this paragraph.

[Songtsan]

I wanted to like the post but limit it to only this paragraph.

 

so you think the mind is aware? What if I surgically removed all but the most necessary parts of your brain? You would have no executive function, no memory, just pure afferent or sensory input. Where did mind go? Did you lose awareness? Nope...

[TaoMaster]

Stick to the topic? sorry!

 

 

I would say that nothing is generated ('generate' meaning to cause to come about) out of nowhere - everything is co-created, co-originated...so thoughts are a result of an end chain of causation, which is cyclical and circular change of energy/matter processes.

 

I don't think mind is capable of awareness - that is the job of the seer. The seer is not mind, instead beyond it and not part of causation, but merely wrapped up in it temporarily...

take a drum stick and hit the symbol or press the key on a piano keyboard. when the two points come together it GENERATES sound. exactly like generating electricity and all other matter in the universe.

Everything in the universe is generated . Hit a key on a piano , it strikes a wires and a sound is generated . when yin hits yang , a " thing " is generated .

 

our bodys are electrical and like light bulbs and all other things in the universe will " burn out " like the bulb .

 

the present time physical universe is generated by the past and future getting close to each other. Yang is the future and yin is the past

 

if you hit two rocks together it generates a spark between them . The spack is present time .

 

its not thing ive read about , its something I know to be true from my experiece with as the 1

 

it looks like this

 

yang+>matter+>energy+>+sensation-<-energy<-matter<-yin

 

sensation energy matter are the physical universe in present time

 

yang and yin are the future and past.

 

theres no exceptions to this . None

 

evreything and every one is made of yang and yin generation

 

positive and negative

 

the north pole on the planet is positive and the south is negative

 

how do I know which is which ?

 

yang is on top north and yin is on the bottom south

 

east is yang and west is yin

 

how do i know ?

 

yang always comes first and yin comes last

 

the sun rises in the east and sets last in the west .

 

you guys probally wont beleive this but you are some the first to get this information on the planet .

 

no one elese that I know of has it . its not published anywhere.

nice eh ?

 

you will not find this truth in ANY book or internet

 

its a common truth and yet its no where to be found except here and 2 other forums im a member of .

 

it showed the other forums the same things as im showing you now .

 

take the positive side of a car battery and touch it to the negative side . it generates a spark until it burns out and then not spark.

 

The other interesting thing about this universe is that no two things EVERY touch and there is no exception to this rule .

 

there is always a space between yang and yin .

 

when you step on a thorn and bleed , the thorn never actually made contact with your foot . The pain you felt is sent electrically to the brain . Things only come close to each other but never make contact.

 

like the two poles of a car battery . They never touch but they do generate spark when close.

 

Hehehe. The color of the insulation doesn't matter. White could be orange and black could be purple. Ground is usually green but it could be pink but regardless ground is redundant. That is because you already have source (white) and return (black). Yeah, white (yang) and black (Yin). Energy. I sometimes call it "Chi".

 

And then you have DC which is direct current rather than alternating current. But you still have source and return.

 

And guess what! Source and return are the same thing - Tao.

 

Yes, dualities exist whether we like it or not. When One gave birth to Two dualities came into existence and have been ever-present ever since the beginning and will continue to be so until the end.

everything from the smallest dot , speck of dust , cars boats trains and planes planets moons galaxcies and sun ...... are made of yang and yin without exception and can be used to trace all the way back to the creator of all things in the universe.

 

its a binary construct .everything inthe universe is binary ........ 2...... yang and yin

 

no color doesnt matter , but it is sybolic ( black and white ) and there are no coincidences in the universe .

 

car battery DC current is red and black , red yang , black yin .

 

you wont find yang and yin in physical terms , without each other . as soon as you do it vanishes.

 

no two thiings ever touch and no two things can occupy the same space . When it does , itll vanish by the law of duailty . The LOD states there must be 2, yang and yin for a thing to be .

[Songtsan]

take a drum stick and hit the symbol or press the key on a piano keyboard. when the two points come together it GENERATES sound. exactly like generating electricity and all other matter in the universe.

Everything in the universe is generated . Hit a key on a piano , it strikes a wires and a sound is generated . when yin hits yang , a " thing " is generated .

 

Great post - haven't digested it yet, but my initial reaction was to state there is no single doer or generator - that the generative process is always a co-originated act. Nothing acts in independence. So there is no generator - only generation itself. No matter how much I feel that I have self will, it is the combined and total acts/will of reality that produce what I consider 'my own' actions. I don't ever, nor have I ever, acted by myself. Every step I take is a confluence of rivers. Nothing occurs in isolation. So if mind generates actions, which it does from a relativistic standpoint, it is still part of a causal chain, and thus not the originator.

 

I have never seen an original impulse within myself. It has always been action/reaction chains of the co-created type.

 

I am not trying to absolve my 'self' of responsibility, but I do think that there are 'no ones' doing anything.

[goldisheavy]

I don't care about my emotions either. They come and go whenever there is a cause for the effect.

 

Okay. You said it poorly the first time. You did good this time. Mindless machine? You are joking, Right? I have a brain. I am very good at determining what is good for me and what is not. (Useful/useless)

 

We can say the same about a toaster. When I push some bread into it, the toaster thinks it's good to toast the bread. Your ability to "determine" things has nothing behind it beyond pure chance. You're not actually intelligent and you are not cognizant of meanings. This is similar to a toaster not giving a fuck whether it toasts bread or paper, it just toasts anything, because it doesn't care.

 

Your molecules do not care. They bump around and the result is a meat puppet that has the same level of cognition and intelligence as a toaster.

 

That's what you're saying about yourself. You're saying you're fundamentally like a toaster, but with more moving parts, and that's it.

 

So I should treat you the way I treat any machine. If I need to cut your arm off to use as a door stop, I will do it with the same attitude that I'd use a toaster for a door stop. Both are machines. So why not? I don't see any problem.

[dwai]

The mind is a stream of thoughts, constantly flowing in our consciousness. There is no "location" of the mind, it is everywhere our consciousness is. The thoughts are objects that have labels but no physical "form" (as they don't exist in mundane space, only in time).

 

We often mistake our mind as being consciousness. The mind is nothing but a stream of thoughts. It's role is to bridge the physical body and material universe with consciousness. Consciousness stands on it's own, mind doesn't exist in the absence of thoughts.

[Songtsan]

We can say the same about a toaster. When I push some bread into it, the toaster thinks it's good to toast the bread. Your ability to "determine" things has nothing behind it beyond pure chance. You're not actually intelligent and you are not cognizant of meanings. This is similar to a toaster not giving a fuck whether it toasts bread or paper, it just toasts anything, because it doesn't care.

 

Your molecules do not care. They bump around and the result is a meat puppet that has the same level of cognition and intelligence as a toaster.

 

That's what you're saying about yourself. You're saying you're fundamentally like a toaster, but with more moving parts, and that's it.

 

So I should treat you the way I treat any machine. If I need to cut your arm off to use as a door stop, I will do it with the same attitude that I'd use a toaster for a door stop. Both are machines. So why not? I don't see any problem.

 

agree - we are machines with both will, the illusion of will, and non will...these things are all true. What percent you have true will or decision is a matter of refinement and discipline. Not only does one learn how to react and non react to things so as to avoid karma, but one also learns how things spontaneously emerge from 'somewhere else.' If something emerges spontaneously and I make a claim to it being 'my creation,' then I am a fool.

[goldisheavy]

agree - we are machines with both will, the illusion of will, and non will...these things are all true. What percent you have true will or decision is a matter of refinement and discipline. Not only does one learn how to react and non react to things so as to avoid karma, but one also learns how things spontaneously emerge from 'somewhere else.' If something emerges spontaneously and I make a claim to it being 'my creation,' then I am a fool.

 

You didn't get what I was saying if you say you agree with me and then say "yes we are machines."

Edited August 15, 2014 by goldisheavy