What exactly is the mind and where is it located ?

[Songtsan]

Then call me vain because I do think that there is free will. - but then, as you see it ,what would be the purpose of star or a moth?

 

Purpose is a mind created fantasy object.

[Marblehead]

Then call me vain because I do think that there is free will. - but then, as you see it ,what would be the purpose of star or a moth?

You didn't wait very long before rebutting my sweet comment. Hehehe. Yes, you know I believe in free will too; but there are limits.

 

The purpose of a star is to create the elements as well as giving off energy that may be used by other "things".

 

The purpose of moths is to pollinate plants and to be food for bats and other nocternal animals.

 

I still have not defined my purpose but I'm sure there is at least one.

[Marblehead]

Purpose is a mind created fantasy object.

Well, of course it is. But that doesn't matter, really, in the eyes of those who see a purpose.

[Stosh]

You didn't wait very long before rebutting my sweet comment. Hehehe. Yes, you know I believe in free will too; but there are limits.

Well , I was already taking a peek before work. Yeah I know you are a freewillist too

Edited August 18, 2014 by Stosh

[TaoMaster]

I am simply speaking of all forms, all incoming sensations. The heart can receive the inputs without that judging mind categorizing things into good/bad, like/dislike, averse/attached formats. I speak of total acknowledgement of the Reality without the filter of mind polluting it. Quiescent mind, non-interfering mind, non-doing mind is the 'best mind' to have.

 

What mind generally does is pollute and interfere with Reality. If you have 'made up your mind about something,' then you have actually created a screen of interference which will be your limiter.

 

Delimit mind.

 

Even the coolest posters on this board (those who I deem cool that is - they know who they are), can only post mind-limited formations which are rife with inadequacy. Even the Dalai Lama, Patanjali, Jesus, and anyone else must express through mind (when expressing through words that is), and regardless of the purity behind the expression, the filter of mind pollutes the message.

 

All our posts are mere shadows of the real intent and meaning behind them.

 

We all have That Enlightened Mind behind the scenes of the Translator, who is constantly evolving.

 

God Bless Mind.

 

It does its best!

can you give me an example of expression through mind and expression not through mind ?

 

something we can relate to in our day to day lives would be good

 

also example of an Enlightened mind and an unenlightened mind ?

 

god too while youre at it please. thx man

[Songtsan]

can you give me an example of expression through mind and expression not through mind ?

 

something we can relate to in our day to day lives would be good

 

also example of an Enlightened mind and an unenlightened mind ?

 

god too while youre at it please. thx man

 

expression through mind is translation of real knowing...'best fit' model...anything which is symbolic and/or uses symbols.

 

expression not through mind - just is....perhaps it is something nearly involuntary - not planned out - wu wei like! non action actions...

 

Think of the process of answering a Zen koan in front of a roshi....you can't use words, can't 'think out' the answer.

 

Now can words be said that are not thought out? I think maybe!

 

So words can express non mind?

 

I will try to think of an example....but if an example comes without thinking about it, that would be 'best'

 

I think that there is no such thing as 'enlightened mind' - only a mind that is silent and non-interfering with the underlying expression of Buddha nature. The nature exists pre-mind...

 

there is a mind which is a pure filter however - one that doesn't pollute - it has to do with what could be called 'the closest thing to enlightened mind'

 

Is there an enlightened mind? That's a good question....

 

You know that nothing I can say about any of this stuff is really it!

 

You are asking me to do mental gymnastics!

 

Am I a trick pony?

 

lol

 

let's see what happens!

 

Something interesting will appear I am sure.

 

It will come in its right time.

 

No pulling rabbits out of mind-hats!

 

It must be a Tao thing.

 

All wu wei must be expression through not mind, or else one could say that the Tao has a Taomind...which is bigger than you and you are not me - the lengths that I will go through, the distance in your eyes - oh no I've said too much! I haven't said enough....that's me in the corner, losing my religion!

 

[TaoMaster]

expression through mind is translation of real knowing...'best fit' model...anything which is symbolic and/or uses symbols.

 

expression not through mind - just is....perhaps it is something nearly involuntary - not planned out - wu wei like! non action actions...

 

Think of the process of answering a Zen koan in front of a roshi....you can't use words, can't 'think out' the answer.

 

Now can words be said that are not thought out? I think maybe!

 

So words can express non mind?

 

I will try to think of an example....but if an example comes without thinking about it, that would be 'best'

 

I think that there is no such thing as 'enlightened mind' - only a mind that is silent and non-interfering with the underlying expression of Buddha nature. The nature exists pre-mind...

 

there is a mind which is a pure filter however - one that doesn't pollute - it has to do with what could be called 'the closest thing to enlightened mind'

 

Is there an enlightened mind? That's a good question....

 

You know that nothing I can say about any of this stuff is really it!

 

You are asking me to do mental gymnastics!

 

Am I a trick pony?

 

lol

 

let's see what happens!

 

Something interesting will appear I am sure.

 

It will come in its right time.

 

No pulling rabbits out of mind-hats!

 

It must be a Tao thing.

 

All wu wei must be expression through not mind, or else one could say that the Tao has a Taomind...which is bigger than you and you are not me - the lengths that I will go through, the distance in your eyes - oh no I've said too much! I haven't said enough....that's me in the corner, losing my religion!

 

i don't know what "wu wei" means but i know what you mean .

 

example

 

when considering an email i wrote to a friend , at the end of the email i thank her very much for the conversation . Its just me considering how much i thanked her . Then my dog puts her head down on my ipad while its in the itunes screen . it begins to play this song just as i consider the last thing i wrote in the email to her .

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktWWFpnLVTE

 

or when i decided on a new motorcycle i want to buy in the near future and it so happens it only comes in two colors . black and black and white , like my avatar

 

http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/gallery/2014-aprilia-tuono-v4-r-aprc-abs/2014-aprilia-tuono-v4-r-aprc-abs-19.jpg

 

i do this all the time these are just two examples

 

there is no such thing as coincidence

 

i also went from being broke unemployed and homeless in 2009 to owning a house and car paid in full and a monthly income for life . My bank acct gets refilled automatically every month tax free. Im still unemployed but i like it that way

[goldisheavy]

What mind generally does is pollute and interfere with Reality.

This can only be a true statement if the mind is something unreal. By definition unreal things do not exist and non-existent things have no way of polluting or distorting those things that do exist.

 

So your statement needs to be rejected.

[Stosh]

Purpose is a mind created fantasy object.

Yes , but you sound a tad derogatory of that , am I correct?

Why should you regard it negatively ?

Edited August 18, 2014 by Stosh

[TaoMaster]

I agree completely. There are so many different takes on life. Renunciation is not for everyone and I don't think it's objectively right or anything. It's right for me. It's the attitude I lean toward, although I am not yet hardcore enough to become a monk.

 

I am curious though, how do you think your life would be different, if you don't mind me asking?

i would have mastered the law of duality and vanished my mind . I walked the wrong way, took the long way but am on the right track now . A short cut . i vanished so much BS all at once and it was all illusion .

[goldisheavy]

i would have mastered the law of duality and vanished my mind . I walked the wrong way, took the long way but am on the right track now . A short cut . i vanished so much BS all at once and it was all illusion .

 

Vanishing is a phenomenon. It's mental by nature, as are all phenomena. I think you are referring to a fixated mindset. So you're saying you've dissolved your fixated mindset, is that right?

 

Are you mindless now? Do you lack cognizance?

[Marblehead]

i vanished so much BS all at once and it was all illusion .

Just don't be trying to vanish physical reality. You would be walking around all the time with a bloody nose from trying to walk through walls.

[goldisheavy]

Just don't be trying to vanish physical reality. You would be walking around all the time with a bloody nose from trying to walk through walls.

 

How silly. If someone is going to vanish physical reality, obviously the blood will also vanish.

Edited August 18, 2014 by goldisheavy

[Marblehead]

Are you mindless now?

I'm the mindless one here. remember?

[goldisheavy]

I'm the mindless one here. remember?

 

You're different because you claim to have always been mindless.

 

TaoMaster says he started out with a mind, and then he vanished it.

[Marblehead]

You're different because you claim to have always been mindless.

 

TaoMaster says he started out with a mind, and then he vanished it.

Yes, exactly. And your question of him is a fair one.

[Songtsan]

Yes , but you sound a tad derogatory of that , am I correct?

Why should you regard it negatively ?

I am and I am not. 'Purpose' is merely imputed by mind. In reality there is no such thing as purpose. It is simply exactly what it is without qualifiers. Give something as many purposes as you want, but it is nothing like that to one who is not seeing through mind's games

[TaoMaster]

TaoMaster says he started out with a mind, and then he vanished it.

Good observation . Actually I started without one and was " educated" into having one . Latter I vanished it . I know how to put it back and have one again and vanish back out too . I can relate to others who consider having one too .

 

you cant vanish a thing until its there to be vanished. I put it there and only i can vanish it . I can help others vanish theirs but they will need to be the one who vanishes it .

 

vanishing anothers mind is Yin , Helping them vanish their own is yang .

 

dont take my word for it tho. Learn the basics , learn and get to know exactly what yang is and what yin is .

 

Dont read about it . make your own list . Thats how I did it . This is why I dont read much . Ecperience is the best teacher . YOU.

[Stosh]

I am and I am not. 'Purpose' is merely imputed by mind. In reality there is no such thing as purpose. It is simply exactly what it is without qualifiers. Give something as many purposes as you want, but it is nothing like that to one who is not seeing through mind's games

So did you just say that you do approach what you consider as unreal with a derogatory attitude but arent doing it for any good reason?

[Songtsan]

So did you just say that you do approach what you consider as unreal with a derogatory attitude but arent doing it for any good reason?

 

You inferred that I saw mind as unreal, when I think it is real (yet transitory, so an illusion). Illusions are only as real as you make them, thus the reification process.

 

I can't say I have a derogatory attitude regarding mind, just a complacent, frustrated, lackadaisical, angsty, accepting, nonchalant, interested, uninterested view (and so many more). Depends on the moment. A mistake many make is labeling people, places, and things as static, when we are dynamic and constantly in flux, like flames....mind is like this. What is not mind is beyond this. Don't ask me to describe That!

 

An example of mind is everything we have posted here.

 

An example of God is everything that is. If that is too abstruse, I understand. How can mind define God without ending up in this conundrum. Discussions of that nature are best left behind...waste of time in my opinion.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Songtsan

[Stosh]

Im glad you brought up the word reification , if I understand this correctly ,its the process of considering the abstract as a thing materially real.

If a mind defines god ,and then one considers god to be a real thing ( or everything) then thats a reification process right?

the result is illusory and transitory right?

Well , the material world is in flux always , so it is also transitory , as are our identities right ?

And our identities are also reifications .. thats to say abstractions rendered ,perhaps falsely,or, as being considered as real.

When we look at material events there again is a reification process , that we we interpret from our senses or subjective experience gets considered as being real.

Yes we understand our senses are limited, and we do infer that what is out there for 'real' impacts what our senses say , but we dont actually see whats out there ' for real' . Its a reification we are familiar with , that is all.

Now when you choose to do something , and do it , that impacts what is 'really' out there,

so that which you are calling illusion must be real to impact it right?

 

But the you that chooses, is a thing you consider real and illusion.

The stuff out there which we observe likewise, is both real and illusion.

Likewise, God is illusion, which we, who are illusion, also make real, by having these illusions about it...

but its a false reification in that there is no objectively real aspect to it.. you cant demonstrate it or prove it.

 

So as far as we can observe , there is no 'division between real and unreal' this is a false belief,

all that exists is real.

There is however both , objectively real and provable , vs subjective impressions of what is objectively real ,(or subjective opinions about that which is false not being objectively provable )

 

So there you have the explanation which you considered such a burdensome waste of time , in under two minutes.

Youre welcome.

[TaoMaster]

Im glad you brought up the word reification , if I understand this correctly ,its the process of considering the abstract as a thing materially real.

If a mind defines god ,and then one considers god to be a real thing ( or everything) then thats a reification process right?

the result is illusory and transitory right?

 

I dont have a definition for refication so I never used it . I only use words i have a definition for .

 

Ya even concepts are things but its life not the mind that defines self , Life.

 

God for me , not everyone , but for me IS life the creator of all things but I dont use the term god , i use life.

 

life is real but not a "thing" in physical terms. Life creates physical universe things .

 

If you can imagine it conceptually , its a thing just as much as a bowling ball is a thing.

Well , the material world is in flux always , so it is also transitory , as are our identities right ?

flux , transitory ? , dang im so illiterate , i never truly went past the 4th grade . so I dont understand this question .

 

And our identities are also reifications .. thats to say abstractions rendered ,perhaps falsely,or, as being considered as real.

When we look at material events there again is a reification process , that we we interpret from our senses or subjective experience gets considered as being real.

Yes we understand our senses are limited, and we do infer that what is out there for 'real' impacts what our senses say , but we dont actually see whats out there ' for real' . Its a reification we are familiar with , that is all.

when i see things that ive metioned , its seeing things out of body and not with human eyes. Spitirually we can see anything we want when we dont use our human eyeballs.

Now when you choose to do something , and do it , that impacts what is 'really' out there,

so that which you are calling illusion must be real to impact it right?

yes illusions have impact . an illusion is an effect ( yin ) and cause ( life ) yang is the source of all effects

 

the cause comes first , then effect

But the you that chooses, is a thing you consider real and illusion.

only life , spiritual life, can choose, nothing in the physical universe chooses , anything that does ultimatly is from a choice life makes. When life made the computer chess games that chooses which move to make next , its ultimatly life that chooses to make the computer that makes the choices.

The stuff out there which we observe likewise, is both real and illusion.

Likewise, God is illusion, which we, who are illusion, also make real, by having these illusions about it...

but its a false reification in that there is no objectively real aspect to it.. you cant demonstrate it or prove it.

life is real , but only in terms of reference . a bowlning ball does not create itself .

 

life is all the yang attributes unlimited, and life puts the yin there to oppose itsself .

 

life is as real as real can be , infinant real .

So as far as we can observe , there is no 'division between real and unreal' this is a false belief,

all that exists is real.

not sure what you mean but yes all that exists is real , even the illusion .

There is however both , objectively real and provable , vs subjective impressions of what is objectively real ,(or subjective opinions about that which is false not being objectively provable )

there is subjective and objective reality yes . subjective comes first then objective . its the tangable reality but both are real .

So there you have the explanation which you considered such a burdensome waste of time , in under two minutes.

Youre welcome.

not mine, its your consideration .

[goldisheavy]

Good observation . Actually I started without one and was " educated" into having one . Latter I vanished it . I know how to put it back and have one again and vanish back out too . I can relate to others who consider having one too .

 

Pardon me, but how would a mindless entity be able to respond to educational efforts? It makes zero sense. If you responded to education it means you must have had a mind (and a mindset) prior to education. Education is, after all, nothing other than adjusting what people should and shouldn't expect. Expectations are adjusted in conformance with convention. That's the meaning of education. If you have no expectations, there is nothing there to adjust, and education will be impossible.

 

Likewise, if your expectations are stubborn, education will be impossible as well.

 

you cant vanish a thing until its there to be vanished. I put it there and only i can vanish it . I can help others vanish theirs but they will need to be the one who vanishes it .

 

This makes sense if you're talking about a mindset rather than mind.

 

vanishing anothers mind is Yin , Helping them vanish their own is yang .

 

I do some of both.

 

dont take my word for it tho. Learn the basics , learn and get to know exactly what yang is and what yin is .

 

Dont read about it . make your own list . Thats how I did it . This is why I dont read much . Ecperience is the best teacher . YOU.

 

I agree 100%. All the best moments of learning for me were happening when I discovered things on my own terms in my own time in solitude.

[Stosh]

I dont have a definition for refication so I never used it . I only use words i have a definition for .

Songstan used the word , so I was aiming mostly thataway, yeah I know its your thread but like trees having branches , if one cuts off too many then the tree withers.

Ya even concepts are things but its life not the mind that defines self , Life.

Ok

God for me , not everyone , but for me IS life the creator of all things but I dont use the term god , i use life.

 

life is real but not a "thing" in physical terms. Life creates physical universe things .

Ok I can go with that too ,if you dont stretch it too far.

If you can imagine it conceptually , its a thing just as much as a bowling ball is a thing.

flux , transitory ? , dang im so illiterate , i never truly went past the 4th grade . so I dont understand this question .

Ive learned the hard way , that if I take the time to just go ahead and google up definitions for the words other folks use its easier to stay with the conversation , so I suggest it , to anyone who, likewise, isnt perfect or psychic.

 

when i see things that ive metioned , its seeing things out of body and not with human eyes. Spitirually we can see anything we want when we dont use our human eyeballs.

yes illusions have impact . an illusion is an effect ( yin ) and cause ( life ) yang is the source of all effects

I dont put much stock in that yin yang thing , I get the basic idea , but just dont feel that my ideas on it have any practical impact on anything I do, but if it floats your boat , well thats a good thing for you. But for me ... eh ,, it doesnt do anything.

 

 

.not sure what you mean but yes all that exists is real , even the illusion .

 

I dont know what there is to not be sure about , but Ill rephrase if you think it would be handy.

The stuff that doesnt exist in any way shape or form , doesnt exist...

 

Folks do mathematical statistics , they say that there are certain 'probabilities' before things happen, but the probabilities they calculate are based on the limitations of what they know about the situation.

In the end though , it NEVER WAS in the cards that it would happen the 'other' ways.

( Im not talking about quantum physics events )

 

Say I predict jordan is going to make a free throw , they look at stats and come up with some number more than half the time ,, Well just as he releases the ball , a plane smashes through the roof crushing the backboard rim and net fall on the floor.

The stats didnt include the plane, the free throw never was going to make it into the net. The probability of missing was always one hundred percent .. and with hindsight, that should be perfectly clear.

 

Thats why they say hind-sight , is 20/20

 

there is subjective and objective reality yes . subjective comes first then objective . its the tangable reality but both are real .

not mine, its your consideration .

again , I was mainly just joshing Songstan with that there.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Stosh

[TaoMaster]

If you responded to education it means you must have had a mind (and a mindset) prior to education.

it just means i responded to education ,a mind is not needed to respond .

 

I have thoughts and considerations but they do not originate from the mind. its a spiritual orgination

 

i generate a thought , look at it and then vanish it out of existence

 

this is not the mind doing these things

 

only life has the ability to generate thoughts and considerations then vanish them .

 

we can consider having a mind but thats pretty much it .