ChiDragon Posted July 16, 2014 Let's talk about it or what do you think it is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted July 16, 2014 a coherent, vectored assembly of constructively amplifying physical and energetic potentials 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arnaud Posted July 16, 2014 You can have a look at my teacher's - Serge Augier - text on the different explosion of force ย http://urbandaouk.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-different-jing-explosion-of-force.html 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted July 16, 2014 Can't talk about it. You either got or you don't. You can't "see" it - an opponent has to feel it. One can't sense one's Jin oneself - another is needed to feel it. ย It is like an electrical charge stored in your bone marrow and is produced by vibrating your qi and condensing it into the bone marrow 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) I have read and also heard from Chen Xiaowang talked a lot about Fa Jin. I wouldn't dare to charge his knowledge about Jin. Btw most of the Tai Ji practitioners do not mention electrical charge stored in the bone marrow. As a matter of fact, I don't think they even know these terms have ever existed. Edited July 16, 2014 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) ย I have read and also heard from Chen Xiaowang talked a lot about Fa Jin. I wouldn't dare to charge his knowledge about Jin. Btw most of the Tai Ji practitioners do not mention electrical charge stored in the bone marrow. As a matter of fact, I don't think they even know these terms have ever existed. Maybe you didn't understand what Chen Xiaowang said or Maybe he doesn't know what Jin is. And Jin is not electrical charge, it is like it. And you'll find lots of references to qi being condensed into the bone marrow. That's what it means - whether you like it or not. ;-) Edited July 16, 2014 by dwai 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted July 16, 2014 Hehehe. This is going to be fun. Two different schools. Almost like Mo Pai vs anything. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 16, 2014 Fair enough, in a good discussion, I do not want to be evasive, defensive or offensive but persuasive.@MH.....There is only one theory but different understanding. That's all......!!! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) changed my mind Edited July 17, 2014 by Taomeow 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted July 17, 2014 Here's a good demo of basic fa jin capabilities - ย ย Also, another demo -- ย 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Maybe you didn't understand what Chen Xiaowang said or Maybe he doesn't know what Jin is. ย This is a very wise and persuasive statement. ย Yes, the above videos are good demo of Fa Jin. That's all. Edited July 17, 2014 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Maybe you didn't understand what Chen Xiaowang said or Maybe he doesn't know what Jin is. And Jin is not electrical charge, it is like it. And you'll find lots of references to qi being condensed into the bone marrow. That's what it means - whether you like it or not. ;-) ย I know my Jin were developed from my practice of the slow forms for sometime diligently. There are lots of claims by assumption of what it is. It needs to be more persuasive. Are you talking about qi or jin....??? Anyway, whatever, it is still immaterial but it has to be consistent. Edited July 17, 2014 by ChiDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Posted July 17, 2014 Hehehe. This is going to be fun. Two different schools. Almost like Mo Pai vs anything. ย Yep, temple style vs all the other classical taichi styles. I would rather go with master Wong style, much more realistic. ย ย ย ย ย 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) It is only the state of mind in the practitioner. Anyone can behave like Mr. Wong if one wants to. There are many options for each individual needs. One can learn Taiji for health; and the others can be a good fighter if that was their choice. Edited July 17, 2014 by ChiDragon 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RobB Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Arnaud, ย I can't get the quote function to work properly for some reason but I just wanted to say: ย This is a great article. Serge's teaching is very clear. ย Cheers ย Rob Edited July 17, 2014 by RobB 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marblehead Posted July 17, 2014 Yep, temple style vs all the other classical taichi styles. I would rather go with master Wong style, much more realistic. I would call that a defensive style. Using the opponent's energy to overcome them. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted July 17, 2014 Yep, temple style vs all the other classical taichi styles. I would rather go with master Wong style, much more realistic. :-) best videos I've seen or real taiji application are by Adam mizner. It's not so much about styles but about what qi and Jin are and whether the teachers know how to express/help develop them 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted July 17, 2014 ย I know my Jin were developed from my practice of the slow forms for sometime diligently. There are lots of claims by assumption of what it is. It needs to be more persuasive. Are you talking about qi or jin....??? Anyway, whatever, it is still immaterial but it has to be consistent. ย Only way I'll know about your Jin is by pushing hands with you. I'm not saying Jin can't develop by doing form work alone and you might well have developed it. But based on our widely divergent perspectives following possibilities exist - ย 1) you are wrong 2) I am wrong 3) we both are wrong and the truth is something else 4) we are not talking about the same thing 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 17, 2014 ๅWe are not talking about Jin......???? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Posted July 17, 2014 :-) best videos I've seen or real taiji application are by Adam mizner. It's not so much about styles but about what qi and Jin are and whether the teachers know how to express/help develop them ย I agree with you, I like Adam Mizner very much, I would train with him if I would have the opportunity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrei Posted July 17, 2014 But I like Chen style more than Yang style. IMHO Yang style is a watered down version of Chen style. The Yang family tried to invent some thing to replace the holes in their style but it is not the same thing. What you see nowadays in Yang family styles are just poor imitation of Chen style. I know I will flame a war with my statements but this is the pure truth. As master Wong says "they're very different". ย ย This is a wonderful fa jin expression: ย Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChiDragon Posted July 17, 2014 But I like Chen style more than Yang style. IMHO Yang style is a watered down version of Chen style. The Yang family tried to invent some thing to replace the holes in their style but it is not the same thing. What you see nowadays in Yang family styles are just poor imitation of Chen style. I know I will flame a war with my statements but this is the pure truth. As master Wong says "they're very different". ย This is a wonderful fa jin expression: ย IMHO In a good discussion, I do not want to be evasive, defensive or offensive but persuasive. ย I must said each style has its own uniqueness. The Chen style has a lot of Jin, as compared to other styles, through the body which is their specialty. ย ย Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joeblast Posted July 17, 2014 ๅ ย We are not talking about Jin......???? ย ย I think what he was saying is, you dont appear to give much credence to the underlying energetic aspects of fa jin. Of course there is a physical component to it, but it is also more than that if its "real fa jin" instead of simply "good efficient movement." 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dwai Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) ย I think what he was saying is, you dont appear to give much credence to the underlying energetic aspects of fa jin. Of course there is a physical component to it, but it is also more than that if its "real fa jin" instead of simply "good efficient movement." Bingo! Getting the structure and movement (accelerating whole body at high speed over a short distance) will result in mind-boggling effects - can launch another object/body of similar mass across a nominal distance (like knocking someone flying over 4-5 ft). That is no ordinary feat...but still is in the realm of physical level tai chi (biomechanics and alignment, mass, velocity and momentum)...ย But that's different from getting " fa jjn"ed. It can feel like touching a live wire, depending on what kind of power is being used...imho Edited July 17, 2014 by dwai 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLB Posted July 18, 2014 But that's different from getting " fa jjn"ed. It can feel like touching a live wire, depending on what kind of power is being used...imho ย That has been my experience. I cannot do it to other people but I have received the shock that is like being electrocuted. It is much more disabling than getting shoved back some distance or getting a black eye. It gets inside. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
