Why do only very few Dzogchen practitioners attain rainbow body?

[BaguaKicksAss]

Hmmmm apparently according to at least some being able to see and perceive past the regular mundane / being psychic is a siddhi. However for those who have this ability, it is not something special or out of the ordinary, it is just a regular state of being.

 

I feel this is the same with the other more fancy seeming ones too.

 

Hard to imagine someone who has spent their life cultivating not being able to see/perceive past the regular mundane though; that just sort of comes with it doesn't it? This just being one example, the most common one people end up with. As we practice less of what we think of as "us" gets in the way, and the more we see things for how they truly are and can work with things how they truly are.

[C T]

In Mahayana, the supramundane siddhis evolves around the perfection of the Paramitas - everything else is secondary. If a person cannot perfect the Paramitas via practice and experiential insights, then even bringing to fruition all other great & lesser siddhis are moot.

 

Prajna Paramita is the highest realization in Buddhist Mahayana path. Other paths might have a different aim, with various super powers to boot, but then these do not belong to the Great Vehicle, by definition.

[ralis]

The Dzogchen tantras set out guidelines and define a qualified teacher quite specifically. Teachers are to be evaluated and examined closely... it is said an unexamined teacher is to be avoided at all costs.

 

The implication is that by hanging out with a prospective teacher one can carefully observe and ask questions, which could take years. Very impractical. I practiced 'guru yoga' for several years after the first retreat with Norbu and realized that the true guru was internal to myself.

[ralis]

You bash tradition, authority, organization, and so on, religiously. How might as well stamp how you feel about the subject on your forehead,

 

I have spoken out against authoritarianism which is dangerous in religion as well as politics. If you are not well versed on the problems of, I recommend this book. It is a free pdf without copyright. There is a difference between authority and authoritarianism. Moreover, organizations can be useful, but are fraught with problems

 

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

[asunthatneversets]

The implication is that by hanging out with a prospective teacher one can carefully observe and ask questions, which could take years. Very impractical. I practiced 'guru yoga' for several years after the first retreat with Norbu and realized that the true guru was internal to myself.

Yeah that is how it works, outer guru is the initial support needed for the practitioner to encounter the inner guru.

[asunthatneversets]

I have spoken out against authoritarianism which is dangerous in religion as well as politics. If you are not well versed on the problems of, I recommend this book. It is a free pdf without copyright. There is a difference between authority and authoritarianism. Moreover, organizations can be useful, but are fraught with problems

 

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

In the end it is how the individual relates to these principles which makes or breaks a problem.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I've seen far too many folks work with the "inner guru" before training with an outer one, or for not long enough, and come up with some really messed up stuff! I've seen more than a few screw themselves, and others as some folks feel they can teach early on!, due to the no feedback from someone physical who has been around longer. Oh sure an inner guru or yourself can do that too, but somehow it doesn't seem to work out well that way, no matter how much people think it does. With a good teacher, most of the work is on your own anyways, they just sort of point the possible directions and let you know when you likely have your head up your behind... To find someone experienced and well grounded (especially that 2nd part) well enough to pull this off, unfortunately isn't as common as we all would hope.

[ralis]

I've seen far too many folks work with the "inner guru" before training with an outer one, or for not long enough, and come up with some really messed up stuff! I've seen more than a few screw themselves, and others as some folks feel they can teach early on!, due to the no feedback from someone physical who has been around longer. Oh sure an inner guru or yourself can do that too, but somehow it doesn't seem to work out well that way, no matter how much people think it does. With a good teacher, most of the work is on your own anyways, they just sort of point the possible directions and let you know when you likely have your head up your behind... To find someone experienced and well grounded (especially that 2nd part) well enough to pull this off, unfortunately isn't as common as we all would hope.

 

It worked well for me. Seems you are generalizing.

[rex]

In Mahayana, the supramundane siddhis evolves around the perfection of the Paramitas - everything else is secondary.

Good to see you back CT !

[goldisheavy]

Still, powers and psychic phenomena are simply signs of resting in equanimity like that you would find in śamatha practice. They are merely mundane siddhis and are not a sign of realization.

 

You can have a siddha who practices dhyāna and has a great many siddhis yet has no realization. And then you can have a yogi with great realization and little siddhis... So the siddhis are really irrelevant.

 

I don't agree. The only way someone with realization appears to "have" little power is if they don't care to exercise it. It's impossible to be realized and yet be consumed by passion to the point where you can no longer exercise psychic power. Although the thing with the power is a mind and not a person. We usually equate the mind with a person, but for a realized being, they can manifest as 10 people at once, for example, so there is no longer a strict 1 mind = 1 person equivalence. In that case there is just mind which can do anything, pretty much.

 

It's like I have a kettlebell over here, and I don't lift it very diligently because I am not interested, but I can still do it any time, including right now. Something like this can happen with the powers. But there is no way someone with realization will forget how to transform appearances, or suck at it, it's just impossible. That's because as I said, realization has implications on how the mind behaves. It's not an implication-free knowledge.

[C T]

Good to see you back CT !

Thank you for the welcome back, Rex, much appreciated.

 

Was away for a few days... had a short holiday with partner and my two doggies by the sea, which was very nice, also, had a short time of enforced withdrawal from posting, which was also nice, cos it made me think of hanging up my TTB boots for good when the system failed for some reason to reinstate my posting privileges after the 7-day restriction was over, and then got news that an old friend of mine was one of the crew members on MH 17, which kinda puts things into perspective once again.

 

> > > >

[Aetherous]

and then got news that an old friend of mine was one of the crew members on MH 17, which kinda puts things into perspective once again.

 

Sorry to hear.

[C T]

Sorry to hear.

Thank you, Aetherous.

[BaguaKicksAss]

It worked well for me. Seems you are generalizing.

 

First one out hundreds... . And you even got somewhere!

[rex]

then got news that an old friend of mine was one of the crew members on MH 17, which kinda puts things into perspective once again.

 

> > > >

Sorry to read this C T. A close friend of mine died recently too. It's funny how at times like these small synchronicities occur. This quote leapt out at me from a YouTube video recently:

 

'In the midst of clouds of impermanence and illusion dances the lightening of life. Can you say that you won't die tomorrow? Practice the Dharma.'

 

Glad you're not hanging up the TB boots for good. Time is passing though, so getting embroiled in interminable debates isn't always helpful. I for one am being more selective now.

 

Edit: typo

Edited July 24, 2014 by rex

[ralis]

I share from my experience but very rarely talk about my experience... broadcasting one's practices and insights for all to see is bad form.

 

You give a very detailed account of your experience here.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/27540-some-recent-insights/#entry415964

[asunthatneversets]

 

You give a very detailed account of your experience here.

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/27540-some-recent-insights/#entry415964

Yes I did, sharing something like that is a rare occurrence for me, and not something I would repeat.

 

I was not as informed regarding that phenomena at the time, but am now and what was written in the link you cited will be the last and only post from me on that subject.

Edited July 24, 2014 by asunthatneversets

[Simple_Jack]

Still that is not saying thought is dharmakāya. I never said anything about hoping for non-thought or a lack of thought in general.

 

The thought and dharmakāya thing is a bit more technical than it appears on the surface, but it is the position that Atiyoga takes on the matter.

 

"The Dagpo Kagyüpas designate thoughts and emotions as the dharmakāya; we Great Perfection practitioners do not make that designation."

- Namkhai Naljor Lhatsün

 

I think the underlying insight shared between them, without adopting the position of Mahamudra, is contained in this passage:

 

Whatever conceptions of mind have arisen,

if they are searched for,

they will not be found,

since they are the seeker.

 

-- Longchenpa, Shing rta chen po, chapter X.

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

Nice to have read your post. I have had the same experience, multiple times.

 

Best to you

Really?

Could you elaborate?

Does it happen spontaneously or can you cause it to occur?

Is it silent luminous bliss that feels like you and you have become everything?

[Tibetan_Ice]

 

As it was described:

 

 

My experiences happened in sitting meditation, and also happened while driving. I am not a Buddhist, or Dzogchen practitioner. My happenings just unfolded as a result of...I really don't know. No focused breath or awareness. My breath usually "disappeared" during meditation and when driving too, coincidentally. Regularly. (Lots of fun times while driving during that time. ) Yes, I felt a "pleasurable" integration when the heart/middle dan tien thingy happened. Was quite beautiful and intimate.

 

[edit] Oh, to answer your questions specifically:

 

Never did I try to purposely manifest it. I never try to manifest states. Oh, except gentle relaxation.

 

Yes, it did feel like silent luminous bliss. But I did not have that concept/phrase in my "toolbox." Did feel like I became everything during those moments? It was expansive, that's for sure. But I don't recall the details now. I just recall the sheer beauty of those moments.

Thank you! I appreciate hearing about it. Yes, beauty. The visual field becomes so clear and bright that it looks magic or something. When it first started coming out as a stream of water gushing out in slow motion, it made the surrounding air look 'smokey' in comparison.

 

It is like a water fountain of pure luminous consciousness, or maybe even beyond consciousness...

 

You must have a good heart!

Edited July 24, 2014 by Tibetan_Ice

[allinone]

Thank you! I appreciate hearing about it. Yes, beauty. The visual field becomes so clear and bright that it looks magic or something. When it first started coming out as a stream of water gushing out in slow motion, it made the surrounding air look 'smokey' in comparison.

 

It is like a water fountain of pure luminous consciousness, or maybe even beyond consciousness...

 

You must have a good heart!

 

can you find the source of that clear bright being? Or call out that state "at will", when something makes you to remember that state?

Edited July 25, 2014 by allinone

[idiot_stimpy]

THE SIX VAJRA VERSES

The nature of phenomena is nondual,

 

but each one, in its own state, is beyond the limits of the mind.

 

There is no concept that can define the condition of "what is"

 

but vision nevertheless manifests:

 

all is good.

Everything has already been accomplished, and so, having overcome the sickness of effort,

 

one finds oneself in the self-perfected state:

 

this is contemplation.

Edited July 25, 2014 by idiot_stimpy

[Wells]

.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[Wells]

.

Edited October 28, 2014 by ZOOM

[idiot_stimpy]

Zoom I really hope you can lose yourself in your pursuit of the great perfection.